AMU question

[whlkiller]

I am looking into various Master's programs and hit across AMU (American Military University)..they have some interesting programs and I was wondering if anyone was familiar with them? Good, bad, worth the money etc...

[JumpmasterK]

I am in the Undergrad program at AMU. I've completed 36 hours with them, and have two more classes to go for a BA. I start my next to last class next month, and should be finished by summer. I intend to continue on in the Master's program myself. I'm not sure of the differences in funding; my courses right now are 100% TA since I'm active duty.

I am quite pleased with the coursework and the instructors; I've learned a lot about military history, politics, Intelligence and world events. It takes a certain amount of self discipline to complete the work, as it's all on your own (with guidance from the University and Professors, of course). I highly recommend AMU if it meets your needs.

[Viking]

I am looking into various Master's programs and hit across AMU (American Military University)..they have some interesting programs and I was wondering if anyone was familiar with them? Good, bad, worth the money etc...


Good, not great, but worth the money (especially if you have TA). Be prepared to read and write your ass off.

Online programs take a lot of self discipline. Do a search here at SOCNET, they've been discussed a good deal.

[CV]

I love AMU. It fits me better than having to sit in class. But I agree- it is not for everyone. By Sept. 1st I will have completed 58 cr.

[CAMedic]

I'm taking my Masters at AMU. I really enjoy it, however as posted above, you will write your butt off AND if you can't discipline yourself for classwork, you are in trouble. You can speak with the instructors, and most have some type of "classroom" participation, however it is ALL up to you.

They are really flexible with military needs. I've had to extend a few times in class due to TDY orders, so it is miles above my local college.

Good luck.

[JumpmasterK]

I've had to take a couple of extensions, as well. What's good is that the University and professors understand the demands of military service, and are willing to work with the student to overcome conflicting demands of service and scholarship.

[whlkiller]

Hey thanks for the info, I will take a closer look at their programs. I actually got my BA online so I am locked on in terms of what that side of the fence entails, and it does take alot of self starting..I also enjoyed the flexibility it provided. I am really interested in some of AMU's programs that seem to be tailored toward the industry..strategic intelligence..etc. A bit hard to find those types of things from the traditional university sector.

[CV]

WhlKiller, first-- I love the name ;)

Next, keep in mind that because AMU has to follow their regional accreditation that it is not like most online collegiate communities. Although I have done it, it is not recommended to “Stack” classes thinking you can blow through coursework. It doesn’t always work that way due, again, their accreditation. Most classes, however, I have found will post most assignments in advance so you can work ahead. I hope this tid-bit helps you and any others looking at AMU. It is not like University of Phoenix Online or those other colleges you see on TV.

Look at the differences between National and Regional Accreditation. Regional seems to be the important one; one that most conventional universities have. AMU has both.

[rgrdrew]

I like AMU as well. I started with them a while back and then went on hiatus for a bit. Recently went back so I could finish and found my particular area of study no longer existed. I got moved to something similar, but also got a couple more required courses added in for good measure. Now instead of 8 to go for my BA, I've gotta do 12 classes. My bad for waiting so long. You do a lot of writing, but as mentioned before you can work ahead if you so desire. And they tend to be very flexible if work committments affect your ability to finish on time.

Good luck, and keep us posted on what you decide. I'll be registering next week.

Drew

[Sharky]

I looked at AMU when I was getting started but went with Troy University instead because AMU was not accredited at the time. Troy gave me 24 credit hours for my military experience, 18 of which immediately gave me a minor in Military Science, and 6 left over toward electives. I clepped 6 hours of Spanish as well. So, I went from zero to 30 hours pretty fast. After that I took 3 classes per semester, 5 (10 week) semesters per year until graduation with a BS 2.5 years later. At the end I was completely and 100% burned out. It was not for the weak or faint of heart to try that while working full time as well....lol

My only concern with AMU now would be how it is viewed by prospective employers. People who haven't tried the online program tend to think it is easier than going to school on a campus and they tend to turn their noses up at online degrees and universities like Univ of Phoenix. Those of us who have actually done it know better. But, that doesn't seem to matter. In some cases an employer wont care where your degree is from as long as you can check the block that you have one. In other cases, they will frown on degrees from online universities such as AMU and Phoenix. That was another reason that I liked Troy, as it is a "real" college with a campus, football team etc. I fully realize that it shouldn't make a difference, but the reality is that it does. They have also shown that they don't vet their professors credentials very well, as we have seen here on this site more than once.


What I do really like about AMU is the variety of non-traditional courses offered, such as the homeland security and terrorism studies.

[Sharky]

Here's an example of one of their professors puffing up his resume....LOL


Larry M Forness

Dr. Larry Forness was born and raised in Denver, Colorado. He contracted non-permanent paralysis from polio as a young child, which he overcame to excel as an all-sports athlete through the collegiate level. He is a former United States Marine. He continues to provide classified consulting to various special operations (SpecOps) units of the U.S. Military. He has fought America's enemies in many countries, on the battlefield and "in the shadows." He has also worked with special units of our allies, particularly Israel and South Korea. He was a member of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO), American Legion China Post #1 (Operating in exile), Chief Hand-to-Hand Combat Instructor with the super-secret 1st Special Operations Airborne Detachment, and has been extremely active in planning, support and operations of POW/MIA missions. His expertise is intelligence and unconventional warfare. Dr. Forness was the Founder of the National Center for Sports Medicine and it’s Director for more than ten years. While at the National Center for Sports Medicine, he developed the L.I.F.E. Test, a set of clinical tests, measurements and examinations that determine a person's true (biophysiological) age. He is a member of the American College of Sports Medicine and holds its highest-level certification--Director of Health and Fitness; one of fewer than 250 healthcare specialists in the world to hold that distinction. Dr. Forness is a member of Physicians and Scientists for Responsible Application of Science and Technology (PSRAST), American Medical Informatics Association; the American Society for Human Genetics; the American Society for Law, Medicine and Ethics; the Federation of American Society for Experimental Biology, the National Council for Reliable Health Information; and Mensa, as well as being a certified Healthcare Accountant and Financial Manager Dr. Forness took his first course via distance education at age 20. In the intervening years, he has earned six degrees via distance education, has been an adjunct faculty member at various universities for nearly a decade, and was a Dean of Distance Education at a major healthcare university in the southeastern United States. He possesses nine earned degrees, which include three Doctorates. He did his undergraduate training at Notre Dame and took some of his advanced degrees and training from prestigious universities such as Duke University and UCLA. He also earned two Law degrees (JD and LL.M.). His latest book, Don't Get Duped! A Consumer's Guide to Health and Fitness (about fraud and deception in the health and fitness industry), was published by Prometheus Books in January 2002 He is a former United States Marine, a sport parachutist, a licensed pilot (with Instrument Rating), and a First Degree Black Belt in TaeKwonDo as well as being an avid weightlifter, is single and resides near the campus of the University of Notre Dame, his undergraduate alma mater.

[JCastro]

Here's an example of one of their professors puffing up his resume....LOL


Larry M Forness

Dr. Larry Forness was born and raised in Denver, Colorado. He contracted non-permanent paralysis from polio as a young child, which he overcame to excel as an all-sports athlete through the collegiate level. He is a former United States Marine. He continues to provide classified consulting to various special operations (SpecOps) units of the U.S. Military. He has fought America's enemies in many countries, on the battlefield and "in the shadows." He has also worked with special units of our allies, particularly Israel and South Korea. He was a member of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO), American Legion China Post #1 (Operating in exile), Chief Hand-to-Hand Combat Instructor with the super-secret 1st Special Operations Airborne Detachment, and has been extremely active in planning, support and operations of POW/MIA missions. His expertise is intelligence and unconventional warfare. Dr. Forness was the Founder of the National Center for Sports Medicine and it’s Director for more than ten years. While at the National Center for Sports Medicine, he developed the L.I.F.E. Test, a set of clinical tests, measurements and examinations that determine a person's true (biophysiological) age. He is a member of the American College of Sports Medicine and holds its highest-level certification--Director of Health and Fitness; one of fewer than 250 healthcare specialists in the world to hold that distinction. Dr. Forness is a member of Physicians and Scientists for Responsible Application of Science and Technology (PSRAST), American Medical Informatics Association; the American Society for Human Genetics; the American Society for Law, Medicine and Ethics; the Federation of American Society for Experimental Biology, the National Council for Reliable Health Information; and Mensa, as well as being a certified Healthcare Accountant and Financial Manager Dr. Forness took his first course via distance education at age 20. In the intervening years, he has earned six degrees via distance education, has been an adjunct faculty member at various universities for nearly a decade, and was a Dean of Distance Education at a major healthcare university in the southeastern United States. He possesses nine earned degrees, which include three Doctorates. He did his undergraduate training at Notre Dame and took some of his advanced degrees and training from prestigious universities such as Duke University and UCLA. He also earned two Law degrees (JD and LL.M.). His latest book, Don't Get Duped! A Consumer's Guide to Health and Fitness (about fraud and deception in the health and fitness industry), was published by Prometheus Books in January 2002 He is a former United States Marine, a sport parachutist, a licensed pilot (with Instrument Rating), and a First Degree Black Belt in TaeKwonDo as well as being an avid weightlifter, is single and resides near the campus of the University of Notre Dame, his undergraduate alma mater.

Sounds like a bio for an online dating service! :D

[whlkiller]

LoL, that prof sounds like the hero from a Clive Cussler novel:) Thanks all for the good information I appreciate it..

Sharky, I had actually given some thought about the topic you brought up, that being a prospective employers view of an online degree. As I was planning on pursuing a Masters from jump, I didn't concern myself with that when I enrolled at the University of Phoenix..I wanted a good accredited program with flexibility to do it anywhere I may have ended up, and it worked well for that. Now that I am looking at my Masters not only do I want something that isn't going to be blown off by employers but I also want a program that thoroughly encompasses the field of study I choose. I think as your level of eductation goes up so does the expectation of your employers.

AMU sounds like a possiblity as it is fully accredited and it offers some distinct programs. I did however find that the University of Washington offers a Masters in Strategic Planning for Critical Infrastructures...so there are some options out there. My only thought is that if you get a degree in a program like this are you narrowing your scope in terms of employment....

[CV]

bah, fuck money and employment. Go with what sounds cool :D

[Sharky]

My only thought is that if you get a degree in a program like this are you narrowing your scope in terms of employment....



Possibly. The question is, what are your goals?

[The Corporate Guy]

My only concern with AMU now would be how it is viewed by prospective employers.

...In some cases an employer wont care where your degree is from as long as you can check the block that you have one. In other cases, they will frown on degrees from online universities such as AMU and Phoenix.

IMHO, this is becoming less of an issue as everyone gets more comfortable with the virtual world. I agree that some employers will not care where the degree is from, but most will care that it is accredited by a reasonable accrediting body.

Reputation of a college can be a big issue in some hiring environments. Big name schools which are highly selective carry clout, and colleges with open enrollments can be second or third class citizens - and it doesn't matter much if they are virtual or traditional.

The X factor is the context in which the degree was earned. There is much to be said for a job applicant who earned a non-traditional degree (especially with high grades) while dealing with challenges that most young college kids would have difficulty comprehending. Some young Ranger/PJ/SEAL/etc. who earned a degree from AMU, between deployments, is going to be able to compete very well with graduates from even the most elite traditional institutions.

Just my .02

[whlkiller]

All good points, and it gives me more to chew over in making the decision. As I have been doing research, I have found more and more specialized degrees in the area of homeland security, strategic intelligence that are being offered by a wide range of institutions which is good to see. I have personally been kicking around strategic intelligence with an emphasis on the middle east, I think its something that will applicable for a while yet:)

[Sharky]

IMHO, this is becoming less of an issue as everyone gets more comfortable with the virtual world.




Very true.

[Sharky]

I have personally been kicking around strategic intelligence with an emphasis on the middle east, I think its something that will applicable for a while yet:)



Applicable, yes. But remember that a lot of employers have the mindset of "We're gonna teach you all of that anyway". You'll find that a lot of them look for the something extra that you bring to the table.


A very wise and very successful businessman who happens to have served in all three Ranger Battalions as well as a Tier-1 unit told me not too long ago that one of the best routes you can go right now educationally is Project Management. Something to think about.

[CAMedic]

Sharky,

With all due respect, I have found Prof. Forness a great instructor who forces his students to excel. He is a hard teacher and doesn't play games with his students, no whining, sugar coating, give away grades, no breaks unless you earn them. I have had good experiences with ALL the instructors at AMU.

[CV]

Sharky,

With all due respect, I have found Prof. Forness a great instructor who forces his students to excel. He is a hard teacher and doesn't play games with his students, no whining, sugar coating, give away grades, no breaks unless you earn them. I have had good experiences with ALL the instructors at AMU.

That is not the issue CAMedic. He could be the Colliegate Professor of the Year and it wouldn't matter. The issue is that Prof. Forness' profile reads like a bad novel to the Special Operations community he claims to have been apart of. Too many questions are in the profile and it does not follow canon for what many in the community would consider legit. Sharky and others can delve more into this...

[CAMedic]

Good point. I stand corrected.

[JumpmasterK]

That is not the issue CAMedic. He could be the Colliegate Professor of the Year and it wouldn't matter. The issue is that Prof. Forness' profile reads like a bad novel to the Special Operations community he claims to have been apart of. Too many questions are in the profile and it does not follow canon for what many in the community would consider legit. Sharky and others can delve more into this...
Matt, I don't know the particular story about professor Forness. I have, however, taken a class from a dude I knew in Korea that has risen to some rank of significance in the State Department. I think that just like any other institution, some instructors can be good or wanting for relevance.

[Sharky]

Sharky,

With all due respect, I have found Prof. Forness a great instructor who forces his students to excel. He is a hard teacher and doesn't play games with his students, no whining, sugar coating, give away grades, no breaks unless you earn them. I have had good experiences with ALL the instructors at AMU.



I dont doubt that at all. But, his dishonesty about his credentials undermines any excellence he may achieve as a professor. I'm glad he's a good one, as he is still employed there at AMU, although his bio (and QUITE A FEW OTHERS) has been changed significantly since I began speaking to the assistant Dean via e-mail. Matter of fact, I just received an e-mail yesterday from a Mr. McCluskey who is the Provost at AMU. Nice guy. He explained that they simply did not have the means to check the validity of such claims when they are claiming to have worked in secret units and intelligence agencies such as CIA, NSA etc. I may try to work with them on remedying that in the near future. As for Dr. Forness, if he wrote that bio or had knowledge of what it said and did nothing to correct the obvious falsehoods it contained, then to me he is just another wannabe and liar, regardless of how cool he is as a professor.

[The Corporate Guy]

If a teacher or professor is a wannabe or charlatan...how can a student be reasonably certain that they are not being fed a good dose of BS in the classroom (virtual or not)?

[whlkiller]

As my lane is primarily law enforcement (the Corps was a time ago), I figured to let others within the realm of the professor's bio answer the particulars of his claims and the discussion surrounding them. Now that that has been done, I can say tend to agree with Sharky's position.

The few things you have as a teacher of academia, or anything for that matter, is not only your ability to relate your experiences and knowledge into a solid instructing base but more importantly your credibility when teaching. I don't doubt that this professor is a good instructor but if his bio was a reflection of his claims then it undermines whatever he may be able to impart to his students as it appears to be based upon some serious inaccuracies. What or how he teaches, especially given whom his student base most likely is given the institution he teaches at, would be most definitely overshadowed by credibility issues if that's the case. IMHO.

That being said, I think the university is still good to go. They hold regional accreditation, which is tough to get (especially for an online university) and keep from the research I have done, and is an indicator that they are a serious school and not a degree mill. That coupled with what looks like a proven online format and some very interesting non traditional graduate programs make it a very good prospect.

[CAMedic]

If a teacher or professor is a wannabe or charlatan...how can a student be reasonably certain that they are not being fed a good dose of BS in the classroom (virtual or not)?

By dint of the research conducted while preparing papers.

Even though I don't condone "puffing up a resume" I will challange anyone to state that they have not done it in some way or form. Just look at the KSA questions and the advice on how to fill in the buzz words. Again, I don't agree with the misuse quoted here by a member of the staff at AMU. Apparently, they cleaned house and will be kept in line by those who want to ensure quality.

BZ.

[Silverbullet]

Even though I don't condone "puffing up a resume" I will challange anyone to state that they have not done it in some way or form.

I'll take your challenge and suspect based on observation that there's another 30 or so on this board who have not puffed up anything or have no need to puff.

I've also looked over in the neighborhood of 60 resumes of dudes from this site separate from those I refer to above who if anything, understated their experience vice puffed it while asking for help with employment.

[Sharky]

By dint of the research conducted while preparing papers.

Even though I don't condone "puffing up a resume" I will challange anyone to state that they have not done it in some way or form. Just look at the KSA questions and the advice on how to fill in the buzz words. Again, I don't agree with the misuse quoted here by a member of the staff at AMU. Apparently, they cleaned house and will be kept in line by those who want to ensure quality.

BZ.




I know it's done, and often. But, I dont agree with it, nor do I do it. As Doc Holliday said in Tombstone. "My hypocrisy only goes so far." :D One of the reasons it has become so commonplace is our unwillingness to do our part in verifying the accuracy of the info presented. As far as KSA's, I think that's a different ballgame. Lack of understanding of the KSA process can easily see a good resume get round filed just because of something as minor as a difference in terminologies. Taking advice on how to at least get your resume looked at by a warm body is not the same as claiming to have served in military units and performed missions that are complete and utter falsehoods. I have no problem with someone gaming the KSA's. If you dont know how you dont stand a chance to even be considered, which is a damn shame all it's own.

[Jimbo]

Just a heads up, but some very good schools are now offering "open learning" type programs. They don't confer a degree, but if you're bored or up for some self paced on-line education, you can't beat the price on these:

http://www.cmu.edu/oli/
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html
http://ocw.nd.edu/

For the 'movement' website: http://www.ocwconsortium.org/

[CV]

Just a heads up, but some very good schools are now offering "open learning" type programs. They don't confer a degree, but if you're bored or up for some self paced on-line education, you can't beat the price on these:

http://www.cmu.edu/oli/
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html
http://ocw.nd.edu/

For the 'movement' website: http://www.ocwconsortium.org/

Damn, I wish I could attend MIT via correspondence-courses (for a degree) :D

[The Corporate Guy]

Just a heads up, but some very good schools are now offering "open learning" type programs. They don't confer a degree, but if you're bored or up for some self paced on-line education, you can't beat the price on these:

http://www.cmu.edu/oli/
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html
http://ocw.nd.edu/

For the 'movement' website: http://www.ocwconsortium.org/

Good links...but holy shiite, I was reviewing class outlines I had taken (at other schools) and it's shocking to realize just how much of an education is FORGOTTEN over the years.

Good thing I still have pieces of paper!

[mikemac64]

I finished my degree last year (at 42 years old). Most of my coursework at Western New England College (http://www.wnec.edu) was in the traditional classroom setting.

Towards the end WNEC started adding on-line classes, as did most of the colleges in Massachusetts. I took 4 out of my last 6 online. 3 were fanatastic, and 1, the last one, was awful. I think it was more the instructor not knowing how to teach online.

I was a little gun shy at first about the whole online thing for most of the reasons others have stated above. But it fit me well and if I decide to go to graduate school I will certainly consider it.

As far as accreditation, you should really select a school with regional accreditation versus national. I have researched this extensivley and it appears national accreditation is veiwed as somewhat of a joke.

A lot of old timers view online coursework as someone sitting on their couch with a wireless connection watching the ball game. Well, that is true to an extent. But I also did my online classes in my station, my cruiser on the laptop, and even while at the beach. That is the beauty of it. I saved a ton of gas, and as much as 2 hours commuting time.

Generally, the workload was the same. The online chat room which most of my instructors used was great. You don't have to worry about looking like an ass when you ask stupid question (yes, there are stupid questions). I felt it really enrouraged "classroom" participation, which we all know can be a big part of the grade.

I recommend it. Just be sure your employer approves of it if it is work related.

[MixedLoad]

What I do really like about AMU is the variety of non-traditional courses offered, such as the homeland security and terrorism studies.

Do you feel that those courses would be worth it, if someone were interested in working for an intelligence agency further on down the road?

[SOTB]

Even though I don't condone "puffing up a resume" I will challange anyone to state that they have not done it in some way or form....Old post, but I'll take your challenge....

[Evil Snowman]

Do you feel that those courses would be worth it, if someone were interested in working for an intelligence agency further on down the road?

There are many well established institutions that are now offering Homeland Security and Terrorism programs ... one I can think of off the top of my head is U of MD. They are well known for their online program and has programs for military as well. After 9/11, many education institutions started on the Homeland Security bandwagon ... if I was going to get a degree in it, I'd want it from a school with a history of accreditation, academic merit and name recognition ... my $.02

[Massgrunt]

Old post, but I'll take your challenge....
Same here. My resume might not be spectacular, but it's all mine. Of course, lots of people do it. It's dishonest and speaks poorly of people. "Everybody does it" doesn't excuse it.

[Jimbo]

Could be a good online program:

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/sspp/ws/ps/tpg/wimw

[CV]

Meh, "puffing" your resume' only goes far. Try getting past an interview when they ask you specific questions that result from said resume'.

[SOTB]

Meh, "puffing" your resume' only goes far. Try getting past an interview when they ask you specific questions that result from said resume'.I agree that resume inflating is a far too common occurrence. I further agree that far too many people have been hired for technically challenging and difficult positions, including and up to the highest levels of senior management. Those that inflate resumes probably have as even a chance of getting into the position they are applying for as anyone else -- if the company hiring only utilizes an interview process and the resume itself as due diligence....

[CAMedic]

Ok, with apologies to those on the board who have BTDT and don't need to puff. I've seen lots of puff pieces, unfortunately, and I did not mean to suggest that members here would do that. I opened mouth and inserted foot.

Mea Culpa.

[Massgrunt]

I haven't "BTDT", but I'm fine with that. I'll stand on my own creds before pretending to have some others, you know? No big deal though.

[CAMedic]

Massgrunt,

Does that mean I should take "Head Elf" (NON SEXUAL) of the Keebler Company off my resume?

[Massgrunt]

There's more than one kind of "Head" elf, if you know what I mean. :D

[CAMedic]

HAHA! I never learn. Now I edited it.

[Evil Snowman]

I'm a supervisor in the federal government ... I always take credit for what my guys do ... ;)

[Jimbo]

I'm a supervisor in the federal government ... I always take credit for what my guys do ... ;)

That's cool. We blame you for our failings.

[RGR.Montcalm]

whlkiller are you still n Active duty or have you gotten out? eArmyU is a great deal also- I earned my BA from Thomas Edison State College in Trenton, NJ. They gave me credit for all my applicable military courses and accepted all the transcripts from the 7 colleges I attended while on AD.

To reiterate- doing online courses is not easy- especially if you have a family and work the hours that most military people put in. Don't forget the CLEP exams- they're free at the ED center and even if you fail one, you can take it again in 6 months for FREE! probably the same test too. Worth a shot- I got 27 hours of college in 7 hours of testing. Not a bad deal.

[Balls]

I've been looking very seriously into AMU for a Bachelor's in Intelligence Studies with a concentration in Intelligence Ops or Couter-Terrorism.

Also wondering if I should go the college route first or do SF.
My wheels are a little rusty and I've only been kicking doors since HS.


Please, remarks from those who have attended or have more experience? Thoughts? Concerns?


Thanks in advance.

[Jimbo]

I'm by no means an expert, but since neither 'intelligence ops' nor 'counterterrorism' are real diciplines, I would recommend you use your energies toward business, economics, history, some kind of engineering or even a physical science degree.

[Impavidus]

I just completed enrollment at AMU for my BA in Buisness Administration, start June 2. I can honestly say I am more nervous about starting college than any military feat I ever faced.

[Buck Fiddy]

Hovy - after your first few classes, you will figure out that your military service has prepared you for college much better than if you had gone to college straight out of high school.

I felt the same way as you initially. After about two or three classes, I figured out that it wasn't really about having rocket scientist level intellect. It is mostly about having the discipline to do the work, to read the reading assignments, and to study for the tests.

Business degree - you chose well. Stick with it - no matter what. There will be times when you will have to give up television, liesure activities, taper back on the PT, etc. Do what it takes, get past it, and then you can do the things that you like.

[Balls]

I'm by no means an expert, but since neither 'intelligence ops' nor 'counterterrorism' are real diciplines, I would recommend you use your energies toward business, economics, history, some kind of engineering or even a physical science degree.

I've been hearing project management lately. Any thoughts on that?

[Buck Fiddy]

Project management education and/or certification is very useful in a broad range of industries.

It is standard within mature industries such as IT, construction, etc.

It is simply a framework - just like the military operation order is a framework.

Instead of: situation, mission, execution, service support, and command & signal

Project management is organized into: scope, time, cost, quality, human resources, communication, risk, and procurement.

As the security industry continues to mature, I expect more certified PMPs and degreed project management personnel (who also have the appropriate tactical background) to gradually float to the top of many companies within the security industry.

The core body of knowledge is known as the Project Management Body of Knowledge - published by the Project Management Institute.

www.pmi.org

PMP certification involves studying for a few hours a day for about three months and taking a 4 hour test - just like other standardized professional certifications like CPA for accountants, LPN for nurses, etc. There are many good 4 day prep courses available, but they should be considered a supplement to the study period I described above, not a substitute.

I personally know about 15 former military combat arms types (including myself) who were able to knock it out. Most of us chose to do it because we felt it was a necessary part of the re-tooling process for successful transition from the military world to the business world. It is worthwhile, and it is attainable if you just discipline yourself to study. About half of them had to take it twice, but you can't tell it from looking at their certificates :D

[The Corporate Guy]

IMHO, PMP makes a lot of sense, for a lot of people, in a lot of lines of work. Project Management as a major course of study in a college program does not. One may be better served learning a broader discipline (such as IT, accounting, construction, etc.) and have the PMP (or other similar project management training) as a secondary skill which helps support/utilize the major discipline.

[Buck Fiddy]

Corporate Guy - I'd have to agree with your comment - most everyone I know did the PMP certificaiton route. I only know one who is going after the master's in project management, and will probably end up using in in some arena other than the security industry.

[Impavidus]

There will be times when you will have to give up television, liesure activities,.....

I have a 2 y/o and a 3 month old. What's that?:D Thanks for the encouragement brother.

[Balls]

Buck,

Thanks for that link. I'm just in the beginning of my civilian career and am looking into my options.

What I'm looking for is the types of certificates/degrees that would compliment my military background as best as possible and put me in good position for work with a 3 letter agency or doing high level protection stateside. I'm also interested in possibly starting a small consulting firm (not in the very near future) since most of my buddys are FR, Team guys, S/S instructors, etc also.

I'm kind of all over the place and want to do everything. I've done the research into different courses, etc....... but if anyone has a hot tip or a "I wish I woulda..." or knows more in depth what is sought after, please let me know. :rolleyes:

I appreciate it.

S/F

[Guy]

Project management education and/or certification is very useful in a broad range of industries.

It is standard within mature industries such as IT, construction, etc.

IMHO, PMP makes a lot of sense, for a lot of people, in a lot of lines of work. Project Management as a major course of study in a college program does not. One may be better served learning a broader discipline (such as IT, accounting, construction, etc.) and have the PMP (or other similar project management training) as a secondary skill which helps support/utilize the major discipline.In the "construction" industry; PMs are beyond the power curve because of lack-of-knowledge of "basic" methods & means of construction.

Stay safe.

[TigerDad]

whlkiller are you still n Active duty or have you gotten out? eArmyU is a great deal also- I earned my BA from Thomas Edison State College in Trenton, NJ. They gave me credit for all my applicable military courses and accepted all the transcripts from the 7 colleges I attended while on AD.

To reiterate- doing online courses is not easy- especially if you have a family and work the hours that most military people put in. Don't forget the CLEP exams- they're free at the ED center and even if you fail one, you can take it again in 6 months for FREE! probably the same test too. Worth a shot- I got 27 hours of college in 7 hours of testing. Not a bad deal.

I went to the Local University when I got out - they laughed at my attempt to parley mililtary experiance into Credit Hours. They did give me 18 hours for DLI and another 6 for some American History Clases I took at the Edu Center on Post. They gave me nothing for the CLEP (which I took the complete complement of - should have been worth 30 hours I thought).

So after complaining to no avail, I took the 24 hours they did give me (added another 20 that I had picked up before I went into the Army) and went back to school. I found that it was generally easy for me, I was not a kid anymore and was not distracted by kid stuff. It took me four long semesters as well as loading up each summer - but I finally graduated.

BTW - the degree plan I chose did not require a foreign language, so the 18 hours I got from DLI (German) went in as "Elective" hours - which basically fulfilled my entire alotment of hours I could put toward electives.

TigerDad

[Balls]

I just completed registration for the "International Relations" program of study.

I found the "Intelligence Studies" program far more interesting, but just couldn't decide on how useful it would be down the road if I decided to change career paths...and since it is not a widely recognized program (as was brought to my attention by Jimbo).

I am wondering if "International Relations" has the flexibility to get me into Government agencies such as DoS or FBI if I go that route....OR....work well with International business if I go that route. I think it should work out fine :rolleyes:
-Anybody care to add their .02?

[Jimbo]

International Relations will serve you well, especially if you can throw in some basic econ and finance classes. I strongly recommend an intro to International Political Economy, a basic international finance (covering exchange rates, currency markets, derivitives, etc..), some kind of survey of social and political phenomena (though avoid anything with 'gender' in the title), an introduction to international law, a class that deals with human security/how societies cope with change and an advanced geography course if they offer one. Once you have that foundation (and a couple more advanced classes in those basic subjects), go and take the classes that are really interesting.

This way you'll have a basic, solid understanding of how the international system works and you will set yourself up well for any certificate programs (Project management, EMBA, homeland security, etc...).

And I cannot stress this enough: if you are in a position to take advantage of any study abroad program, take it: summer at London School of Economics, a semester in Istanbul, rural development in Africa, etc...

[Balls]

:( I hate politics and finance. I know it's good for me but.....damn. ;)

Thanks Jimbo

[Jimbo]

You have to know how it works so you can destroy it.

I mean, I love the system.

[Balls]

You have to know how it works so you can destroy it.

I mean, I love the system.

Bro, NOW YOU'RE SPEAKIN' MY LANGUAGE!!!! :cool:

I'll keep that in my head while the books are open. Thanks.

[ExSquid]

Anyone have any experience with their Legal Studies program? I don't think it really applies directly to any field of endeavor but it seems like I would get more practical, everyday usable, knowledge out of it then say a Poli Sci or Military History degree.

x/S

[TigerDad]

A few years back, I worked for a company that handled Logistics for a major cell phone service provider - we shipped over a million phones a month, both to individual buyers - as well bulk customrs that bought hundreds at a time. The thing is, I would say that 90% of the managers and supervisors there were ex military - some retired, some not, some officers, some NCO's - altogether, there were at least 30 to 40 ex mililtary employed there. This company saw the military man as a strong asset and one whom they could trust. But one thing all these Managers and Supervisors had in common - they all had degrees.

The disciplane that they practiced at the high level was Logistics, at the lower level, it was just managing people at tasks - we have all done that.

TigerDad

[CLEARED HOT]

And I cannot stress this enough: if you are in a position to take advantage of any study abroad program, take it: summer at London School of Economics, a semester in Istanbul, rural development in Africa, etc...

Good advice Jimbo. Alot of Fed Agencies look at this as a plus, the overseas experience that is. Take advantage of this style of education, especially if its free and in a good place like say........Costa Rica, Carribean etc. Heh!, I think you know what I'm saying.

[Balls]

I just wanted to take a moment to drop back in to this thread and see how everyone's studies are going. I am still enjoying the classes and professors. Still unsure of a degree program...interested in Intel but looking at Business because it is more widely recognized. Middle Eastern studies are also looking promising. To be honest, I am pretty much a jundy still and do not really know what will be most beneficial in the long run...but that's life.

Like I said, I know there are several members here who are currently attending or have graduated and I would just like to see if anyone else has comments that they would like to share.

[Jimbo]

Take advantage of this style of education, especially if its free and in a good place like say........Costa Rica, Carribean etc. Heh!, I think you know what I'm saying.

I got 21 credits while living in Costa Rica.

It was awful.

[Jong]

Does AMU do self paced courses?

[CV]

No, they are all 8 or 16 weeks.

It takes a brutal amount of discipline to stay focused. I was hammering out classes until I got the gig at DoS... be warned, you need to kick your own ass sometimes.

[Jong]

No, they are all 8 or 16 weeks.

It takes a brutal amount of discipline to stay focused. I was hammering out classes until I got the gig at DoS... be warned, you need to kick your own ass sometimes.

Actually I think self paced courses would be harder because it would be really easy to procrastinate. :biggrin: Right now things are kind of fluid in my job and don't know where I am going to exactly be a few months from now, so I am having a hard time trying to commit to a semester type program.

Do the 8 or 16 week programs start on regular dates similar to most other college courses?

[Viking]

You can get extensions for most if not all of the courses, so that could be considered semi-self paced I suppose. Be sure to understand the consequences of getting extended, though.

[HKUSP45]

Actually I think self paced courses would be harder because it would be really easy to procrastinate. :biggrin: Right now things are kind of fluid in my job and don't know where I am going to exactly be a few months from now, so I am having a hard time trying to commit to a semester type program.

Do the 8 or 16 week programs start on regular dates similar to most other college courses?

Yes, they start and end on regular dates.

HK

[Believeraz]

I'm back at it, after a few months off for work-related training. Finding time and space to concentrate and work (at the same time) seems to be the perpetual challenge.

[Dumpsterchair]

I just completed registration for the "International Relations" program of study.

I found the "Intelligence Studies" program far more interesting, but just couldn't decide on how useful it would be down the road if I decided to change career paths...and since it is not a widely recognized program (as was brought to my attention by Jimbo).

I am wondering if "International Relations" has the flexibility to get me into Government agencies such as DoS or FBI if I go that route....OR....work well with International business if I go that route. I think it should work out fine :rolleyes:
-Anybody care to add their .02?

I know this is an old post but... I have an IR degree from AMU and am interviewing with the FBI in a few weeks. That degree also got me a very good job with a DOE contractor. Of course I cannot discount my military background as having an effect on my competitiveness but I know the IR degree with the international security concentration helped in both cases. I was also found competitive by a certain three letter intelligence agency but I bombed my interview (first interview ever, bad company to use as a learning experience). I was also given an offer by the USSS but opted against it because even the guy I interviewed with said it was sort of a lame job. I'm not bragging, I am trying to explain my personal experience with an AMU degree and how far it can get you.

For what it is worth, and I know AMU is no great shakes, no one that I have interviewed with over the last year has cared that I got my degree online, it's never been an issue brought up during the interview process with any of the above agencies or anyone in the private sector. In my eyes, coupled with a solid military background, a degree from AMU can get your foot in the door of plenty of good employers. The “mail-order degree” paradigm is slowly shifting.

That being said, if I could have afforded to go to a regular brick and mortar school for 4 years, I would have and I would have got a BS vice a BA.

[0699]

Does AMU do self paced courses?

LSU (www.is.lsu.edu) does self-paced courses. Nine months to start and a three month extension for (I think) $25 per class. The only problem is LSU doesn't offer any degrees on-line, so they're all transfer credits for another school. I know they have an agreement for transfer with University of New Orleans to accept all credits, but I don't know the details. My school had no problems taking LSU transfer credits; I doubt many schools would have a problem.

I took 18 credits through LSU this way. Very efficient, great customer service, and the classes were only $230 last time I checked. Highly recommended.

[Balls]

I know this is an old post but... I have an IR degree from AMU and am interviewing with the FBI in a few weeks. That degree also got me a very good job with a DOE contractor. Of course I cannot discount my military background as having an effect on my competitiveness but I know the IR degree with the international security concentration helped in both cases. I was also found competitive by a certain three letter intelligence agency but I bombed my interview (first interview ever, bad company to use as a learning experience). I was also given an offer by the USSS but opted against it because even the guy I interviewed with said it was sort of a lame job. I'm not bragging, I am trying to explain my personal experience with an AMU degree and how far it can get you.

For what it is worth, and I know AMU is no great shakes, no one that I have interviewed with over the last year has cared that I got my degree online, it's never been an issue brought up during the interview process with any of the above agencies or anyone in the private sector. In my eyes, coupled with a solid military background, a degree from AMU can get your foot in the door of plenty of good employers. The “mail-order degree” paradigm is slowly shifting.

That being said, if I could have afforded to go to a regular brick and mortar school for 4 years, I would have and I would have got a BS vice a BA.


Excellent info, thanks.

- How much did AMU itself help with lining up jobs? I know they have a section dedicated to helping graduating members.

- How big is the difference (from an employer standpoint) of a BS vice a BA?

- I have strongly considered USC or UCLA (especially considering the new coming GI Bill benefits) but am weighing the options.... AMU provides a very specific, security focused course but the other schools are much more widely recognized. your .02?


Thanks.

[CV]

In my experience, just having a degree good enough. The government employers I deal with care more about real-world experience than what is stamped on your diploma.

The degree is often used as a means to get you in the door, not the determining factor on if you qualify for the job.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Dumpsterchair]

Excellent info, thanks.

- How much did AMU itself help with lining up jobs? I know they have a section dedicated to helping graduating members.

- How big is the difference (from an employer standpoint) of a BS vice a BA?

- I have strongly considered USC or UCLA (especially considering the new coming GI Bill benefits) but am weighing the options.... AMU provides a very specific, security focused course but the other schools are much more widely recognized. your .02?


Thanks.

1. I did not use their job placement program so I could not comment on the first question.

2. I recommend a BS because during my search I found many employers who discriminated against BAs. The job requirements often would require a BS vice a BA with few or no other stipulations as far as type of degree. It was never the reverse though (requiring a BA vice a BS). Obviously this will depend greatly on what you want to do. I will add that my current position actually required an engineering degree in the announcement but I rolled the dice and it paid off. For anyone trying to get into the defense sector, FLEO, or other government oriented/contractor gigs, I would definitely recommend a more technical degree; it opens more doors and sets you apart from the crowd.

3. It’s hard to say for sure because every employer is different. That being said, I would guess that unless the school is Ivy League caliber it won’t make a huge difference (AMU versus another university). For most companies, like CV said, it's a check in the block to get you in the door.

Like I said earlier, I wish I could have afforded to go to a traditional brick and mortar but only because I think I would have enjoyed the interaction and experience more. Online school is sterile and can be boring. On the flip side, I finished my bachelors in half the time it would have taken me at the local state university here. With my military SMART transcripts and a handful of transfer credits from community college I finished it in 12 months but I was doubled up on courses and not working. The state university wanted to start me as a freshman (they basically laughed at my SMART transcripts).

[Balls]

Whole Post

Getting a BS does seem much more practical.

Thanks again for the info, and best of luck with your hiring process.