LOMing out of Ranger School

[LPalli]

A graduate from West Point recently LOMed (Lack of Motivation... aka Quit) out of Ranger School. This caused a lot of commotion here and I was just wondering what if any long term repercussions (he is not infantry, he is field artillery) on the 2LT their would be? Thanks.

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LPalli
USMA

[RangerCharlie]

I think officers are expected to pass Ranger school for leadership building. Since he is FA I don't know how much emphasis they put on Ranger school.

[Mike]

Today's Ranger course is entirely voluntary. The mandatory requirement for Regular Army officers was dropped in 1971. However, Infantry branch officers are "required" ("encouraged") to have the Ranger tab in order to get promoted unlike the other branches.

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited 05-02-2000).]

[Razor]

<Sigh> Here we go again. There are folks out there who are obviously quite well-read, with lots of information swirling around inside their onions regarding life in the military. However, speculation based on popular conceptions (or misconceptions, as it may be) aren't all that helpful to those seeking solid, factual information.

LPalli, here's some information regarding your question based on actual experience. As Mike said, infantry officers are expected to go to Ranger School, barring a very rare good reason not to go. Not everyone passes, that's the way it goes. Luck plays a big role (too big, IMO) in graduating, and sometimes you're just not lucky. Anyhow, luck and timing play in what difference not having a tab makes, too.

I was a mech inf guy, and was one of around 10 of the 42 officers in the Bn who had a tab. The only enlisted guys that had it was one 1SG and the CSM, both prior light guys. Now, understand that I was OCONUS, and our Division wasn't big on spending money to send guys to, or getting slots for, Ranger School. That certainly played a role in the low number of tab holders. In fact, after I left MG Grange took over the Division, and you can just guess the number of guys going to the course went through the roof. Command influence is a powerful thing, you see.

We had one LT in our Bn (USMA '93) that LOM'd. When the 1LT mafia heard about that, we just about had a group heart attack. We figured he's be toast, but in actuality, he was a good PL, got a specialty platoon after his rifle platoon, and ended up as the Bn S-1. What are the repercussions down the road? Who knows; depends on his future bosses and their opinion on being tabless (unless things have changed, once you LOM from Ranger School, you can never go back), depends on who's sitting on promo boards, depends on his duty performance from now on. My first Bn S-3 didn't have a tab, was a leg, never tried for the EIB, or had any other cool guy trinkets, but he had several joint assignments by the time he was an O-4, and recently found out he's a first time select for the War College (he's now an O-5). He's done well, and very well may get a Bn command. Infantry guy, no tab, Bn cmd--go figure, huh?

So, back to the original question, LPalli--its hard to say what will happen to your guy. Could go either way, depending on luck and timing. It would certainly be preferrable if he had either got the tab or was asked to leave, rather than asking to leave himself, but you just can't tell for sure. He will carry the stigma of quitting with him for the rest of his career, though, so I hope he can live with that, along with the fact he didn't help the already beat-up reputation USMA grads have to live with out there.

Bottom line--don't ever, ever, ever quit and you don't have to worry about this stuff.



[This message has been edited by Razor (edited 05-03-2000).]

[LPalli]

My sentiments exactly... never quit. I recently talked to a friend who graduated from the same class as the LOMer (was in his sister squad.) He didn't have much to say except that it casts a shadow over USMA grads and FA officers in general. I think in the long run that the biggest problem is that the guy has to deal with the fact that he quit when things got hard...

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LPalli
USMA

[0802]

LPalli:
What is his name? I am an instructor at FAOBC, I have a good idea of one of the guys from OBC 6-99 that might be the Lt. The attrition rate for FA officers is extremely high from what I have been told. In the recent past they reduced the number of quotas available to Ranger school from FAOBC. From what I have seen they additionally have some problems with the RIP here because their aren't a lot of Ranger tabbed officers. The program is normally run by a FACCC Capt, but since they are also here for less than 5 months, there is little consistency, some Capt will run a much harder course program than other.

[LRSC Grunt]

Our companies policy is that if anyone LOMs ranger school they get a nice solid boot in the ass to leg land....and were a national guard unit!!!




[This message has been edited by LRSC Grunt (edited 07-03-2000).]

[JOE-BOO]

Don't know much about USMA guys LOMing, but a 2LT from there got caught doing the five-knuckle shuffle in a wall locker....he got dropped.

[JOE-BOO]

Don't know much about USMA guys LOMing, but a 2LT from there got caught doing the five-knuckle shuffle in a wall locker....he got dropped.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by Razor:
......Not everyone passes, that's the way it goes. Luck plays a big role (too big, IMO) in graduating, and sometimes you're just not lucky. Anyhow, luck and timing play in what difference not having a tab makes, too.......

While I do agree with you, Razor, that there is a degree of luck involved in Ranger school as to whether or not one graduates, an LOM is something else entirely. Luck (or lack thereof) doesn't have a damn thing to do with an LOM.



[This message has been edited by TackDaBoat (edited 07-03-2000).]

[LRSC Grunt]

11z,
dropped???? as in do pushups dickhead???? must have bean very difficult with a his hard on sticking out of his pants(LMAO!! http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif)...or was he dropped from the school?

sorry, i just had to throw that in there!

[Razor]

Tack,

You're right; quitting is entirely different from a bad RI day. I certainly wasn't trying to insinuate that bad luck was the cause of this guy's inability to suck it up.