Civilian Dive Certification/prep for military-style dive

[kpel308]

Diving virgin, so please be gentle:

I am going back to Thailand in June, and in November am slated to participate in a RTMC (Royal Thai Marine Corps) dive in the Gulf of Thailand off Sattahip. This will be in conjunction with water jumps from helos with the RTMC with a civilian "military parachuting" organization.

As I understand it, Thailand is one of the primo places to learn to dive. I'd like to be certified in at least open water diving prior to taking part in the November dive(s) for safety's sake, and to give me something else to do other than sit around and drink beer. Not that drinking beer is not a worthwhile pursuit in and of itself.:D

I've seen PADI courses and NAUI courses and a slew of other 4 letter acronyms, etc., and was wondering which certification would prepare me best for the military diving?

The RTMC apparently use US military-style diving equipment. There are no stated pre-requisites other than a medical exam prior to the event. Which certification would be recommended for most diving? I've seen PADI quite a bit, with course costs running in a very wide range from cheap to rape. If anyone has dived in the Pattaya/Sattahip area, can you give me a SITREP on what to look out for so I get good SAFE training? I don't mind paying an arm and a leg, as long as I get to hang on to them, if it's worth it. I also don't want to end up learning one way, only to have to "un-learn" it to do it properly with the RTMC.

Would anyone recommend I just do the dive cold? That runs against my gut feeling, but I don't know JACK about diving.

I'm just trying to plan ahead and be safe.

[ussfpa]

This is not the time to be gentle. If you don't know jack about diving you shouldn't be diving period. You ABSOLUTELY should not be attempting some sort of water jump scuba infil Vin Diesel crap. Can you imagine hitting the water with an extra 60lbs wirht or stuff strapped to your body, being tangled in your suspension lines, and not be able to properly purge and place your regulator with your mask strangling you and your fins still tied up to your shins?
There is MUCH more to it than putting a hose in your mouth and hoping not to get water in your nose.
My personal opinion is that you have no business whatsoever even attempting the "experience" you are describing as you are not only putting youself at risk, but every other diver of every experience level who is in the water with you. The only thing worse than a novice diver in trouble, is ANOTHER novice diver trying to help him, not even mentioning being in unfamiliar waters. If their ONLY PREREQUISITE IS A MEDICAL EXAM...there is a serious safety issue here.

I love Pattaya. I have dive T-Shirts from Pattaya. I've dove Pattaya-unless you are going 2 hours offshore you will be diving in boat trash and sewage.
That being said...Mermaid Dive Shop in Pattaya is (at least used to be) run by an Ex-Pat and did have the highest quality gear in town for both purchase and rental. They also used to hold classes for PADI Open water cert through the shop, but by appt only. It has been 2 years since I have been back there...but it was a small shop with good folks and gear.

NONE of the civilian courses will prepare you for a military style dive....just as "skydiving" does not prepare you for military freefall (HALO). As such, in the civilian world PADI is the most widely recognized (and commercialized) certification platform. There are others, some are more stringent with requirements for advancement and whatnot.....it is really personal choice and availability. A civilian rig (single 80 and nice BC) has NOTHING on a set of twin 80's or (Heaven forbid) 120's and a horse collar-depending on the YEAR of the "military style gear".

From someone (as a dive medical technician) who has rescued OTHERS LIKE YOU who thought that diving with no experience was "no big deal"...Do yourself a favor and pass on this "opportunity" to hurt yourself and those around you.

One more thing-if you decide to do this, and pull it off successfully, don't come back here and post that it was all good and the time of your life. It would still be both foolish and wrong-even if nothing bad happened. This activity should not be condoned.

PA

[kpel308]

I apologize for the miscommunication: The dives will be entirely separate from the water jump, and under controlled conditions, with instruction. I was attempting to ascertain how to safely go about preparing myself for it. I understand this will NOT make me a qualified diver.

Thanks for the info on Mermaid. I've been past there, but haven't gone in.

[KJ]

Pretty much what ussfpa said. PADI and NAUI are both certified methods of obtaining a diving qualification and the best way for you, an American, to learn diving before you go there. I commend you for thinking about your safety when I am sure there are others in the mix going without thinking about it at all. However, it has been my experience that most of the "diving" certifications in that area (Sattahip/Pattaya) are geared for one-time tourists and do not exceed 33 feet. The fact that ussfpa even knows of a place offering a PADI certified course is news to me and would be the folks that I would want to hook up with if I were you given the Thailand only option. Thailand diving is great for the water and cost, but not the instruction.

Again, do not confuse military diving with civilian diving. I guess you could say it is the difference between military and civilian flying. Learning how to fly helps, but flying a military plane is WAY different than flying a commercial airliner. The same is true of real military dives. "Currency" dives for lobsters don't really count in that tally. Good luck in your endeavor and do not do anything that you are uncomfortable with procedurally or equipment wise. Smart divers, like smart skydivers use the best equipment and bet on living over dying.

[kpel308]

Thanks, KJ. I appreciate both responses.

[SOTB]

Fuck, if I were going to Thailand, I can't imagine diving or jumping being anything more than a momentary distraction from the real mission....;)

[Frog]

What about the basics? Can you swim? How well?

Civilian Dive courses may "certify" you, but choose your school wisely. Before I went to Navy 2nd Class Diving school and before BUD/S, I took a 6 month course in college with extensive classroom physics, dive profile calculation, PT and pool work, but I didn't get certified. A year later I took a 3 day course designed for those with zero experience to get certified and I finally got my card. The 3 day course gave you enough info to easily kill yourself.

If you are diving with the Thai SEALs, they are pretty safe as they follow the US Navy Dive Manual. If not, your own knowledge is all you will have. Ask what the emergency plan is and how they plan to get you to the nearest recompression chamber. When was it last certified?

[kpel308]

SOTB: My "missions" have been limited to massive amounts of beer when not working, as my girlfriend is a Senior Sergeant Major with the police. She's a good shot, and has enough connections that she could get away it!

Frog: We'll be diving with the RTMC. I don't have any further details at the moment, but am trying to gather enough info to be able to ask the right questions, such as the ones you posed. I'm a strong swimmer, as far as that goes, but the last time I swam a mile was about 5 years ago. I've been swimming at Jomtien Beach outside Pattaya, so what was said before about sewage and ship trash is not news to me. Still tasted better than what KBR served for lunch today... (well, almost). I understand about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, so I will do what I always try to do, and shut my mouth and listen up. I'll attempt to locate the pertinent manuals online, if possible, and familiarize myself with them. At any rate, I'll take a look at Mermaid in Pattaya and ask about the closest chamber, etc., and scope them out for taking the PADI open water diver cert. The dive will be at the Sattahip RT Navy/Marine Corps Base, from what I understand, which is just a stone's throw away down the coast from Jomtien. RTMC dive instructors will be supervising. NOT exactly a "fly by night" outfit, in my limited experience with them.

[0699]

Diving virgin, so please be gentle:

If anyone has dived in the Pattaya/Sattahip area, can you give me a SITREP on what to look out for so I get good SAFE training?

I'm just trying to plan ahead and be safe.

If you're diving off Sattahip, watch out for medical waste. Last time I was in Thailand (Rayong and Samesan in 2003) there were no-shit used needles and medical supplies lying on the beach.

It was quite the change from 1988/89 when we went swimming right on the RTMC base.

Enjoy Thailand, but be careful.

[rubicon]

KPEL308,
I am not a btdt. No military diving. I am a civilian diver. It seems good advice given already. (my opinion not needed) Wise to follow them.
If you decide to get your certification the civilian route-you can get some good training via the agencies that promote overhead environment diving. Cavern, Cave, Wrecks, etc. HOWEVER, this is NOT for beginners. You will need ample experience and training PRIOR to attempting this type of training. Just food for thought. If you ever get down around the North Florida area check out some of the cave agencies for info. Ginnie Springs is a good place to start. Just food for thought.
I agree that anyplace certifying "tourists" is only going to put you in harms way-usually in a BIG way. Seen it more than once. Good luck. Dive safe.

Rubicon

[kpel308]

Thanks, guys. I'll be living and working in Thailand permanently, so the options available to me there are the ones I'll have. I definitely want to go about it the right way, as far as my diving goes. For all I know, this "military" dive will be in the kiddie pool. I'll advise as more information becomes available. Will definitely say "NO THANKS" to anything unsafe.

Of course, jumping out of helos into the Gulf of Thailand is SAFE??? GRIN

[yojinbukai]

Send some money to Diver's Alert Network. If stuff goes sour, they'll have your back. Great folks who will send you to hyperbarics, repatriate you, and even pay for lost equipment and such with travel insurance. Worth the weight or twin 100% platinum 120ci tanks filled gift certificates to free nights with the lady of your choice.

I got my certification through SSI. It was easy, but not too easy. Find a solid dive instructor who you can stand to hang around. A good way to tell is if the shop feels more like a team room than it does a sales floor. There'll be people wanting to hang around this person because he or she is just plain good people.

I don't have the dives some of these guys do (I'm still below 500 hours,) but it's my 2 bits.

[kpel308]

I appreciate all the good info. I'll be in Thailand next week for a half business/half pleasure trip, and will stop by Pattaya. Anyone in that AO that wants to have a couple of beers? (NOT diving this trip...)