The Army's New Land Warrior Gear: Why Soldiers Don't Like It

[Spinner]

When I had my first go round at Motorola, they were heavily invested in developing this system, although I'm not sure if they are still in the running.

I always thought that, while the idea of outfitting soldiers with the latest information systems to give them an edge on the battlefield was a good thing, I always got the impression that the systems they were actually developing were more a hindrance, especially in terms of bulk and weight, but also as far as GIGO/bad information, or simply too much irrelevant data. Getting so caught up in the display screen info coming up through the viewfinder that you miss what's really going on in your immediate area.

Here's the latest piece I've seen courtesy of Popular Mechanics. Things haven't changed that much in the 8 years since I was studying one of the first iterations that was being field tested at that time.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4215715.html

[ContinentalOp]

I always thought that, while the idea of outfitting soldiers with the latest information systems to give them an edge on the battlefield was a good thing, I always got the impression that the systems they were actually developing were more a hindrance, especially in terms of bulk and weight

I know Poole has the same thing to say in his books. A lot of extra gizmos, especially on infantry, removes the soldier from the environment and task at hand. Interesting to hear varying BTDT thoughts on this. A good friend of mine seems to believe that wearing night vision is tantamount to high treason.

[Tracy]

For the $30,000 unit cost, I could outfit an entire platoon with Rhinos (Map/GPS/Radio combination), earpieces/mics, maps in ziploc bags w/ grease pencils, and every NCO and Officer with Iridium Phones. Package weight: Joes: 1 pound, Leaders: 3 pounds.

There, now I can communicate, track friendlies, and carry a back-up comm system that can reach the White House if necessary. Oh, and each fire team can make a morale call back in bivouac.

I hope Land Warrior doesn't turn our troop into dead geeks.

Not impressed. :rolleyes:

[CombatWombat]

They tried dropping some of this stuff on my Stryker brigade on the way out the door in 2003. Total crap. I ran with the HUD eyepiece for all of ten minutes before I decided I'd rather be able to see the enemy than a map.

I still haven't seen the one piece of gear that all the PLs pushed for. Give me a palmtop sized computer that links with the FBCB2 so I can keep some SA on vehicle positions and reported squad positions while dismounted. The VCs back at the vehicles can manually update where the squads are and the PL on the ground gets real time updates of where his support his, adjacent unit locations, and can actually use all those fancy digital overlays the S-3 shop makes for him.

I hope this crappy system doesn't kill digital warfighting along with it. Despite the lousy delivery systems, we did some amazing shit when I was over there just because of the high level of FBCB2 integration down to the platoon level. I remember hitting a house none of us had ever seen before twenty minutes after BN got the intel. Two platoons converged on the place from their standard patrol routes and using positions and route overlays planned and digitally sent to us from the BN and CO level we were able to move into position and orient without any prior coordination. The outer cordon knew exactly where all the inner guys were without any rehersals, the air guys launched and had a knee board with the same graphics I had on the ground, and my CO rolled up just as I was setting in the charges on the door and just had to say 'execute' and we were in. All in twenty minutes from walk-in tip to blowing in the door. Fairly cool.

[Spinner]

A good friend of mine seems to believe that wearing night vision is tantamount to high treason.

My 3 man team had two sets of NVGs during our Gulf tour, not including what our MP platoon was using. We had a 1st Generation set that had already been part of the TO&E, and then we were issued a set of the latest PVS-7, which was given to me because I was the driver of the Winnebago. And the lead singer. :D

At that time, the Kevlar helmets did not come equipped with a mount for the goggles, and the webbed head harness wouldn't fit under my helmet. I wound up basically wearing them around my neck with the lanyard, and I found I was more effective than if I had been looking through them constantly.

Hardware should always be developed to fit the soldier, not the other way around. the Land Warrior project is just one more example of that way of thinking, and as Tracy stated in his post, he can be just as effective with the Rhinos and the other items listed, or some other variation that is available off the shelf.

Those Rhinos are pretty cool, too, just based on what little info I picked up in a copy of Outside magazine's gear issue.

[Terminator2]

For the $30,000 unit cost, I could outfit an entire platoon with Rhinos (Map/GPS/Radio combination), earpieces/mics, maps in ziploc bags w/ grease pencils, and every NCO and Officer with Iridium Phones. Package weight: Joes: 1 pound, Leaders: 3 pounds.


And probably have money to spare. Plus, maps and grease pencils don't have the potential problem of having a "fatal system error."

[ContinentalOp]

Hardware should always be developed to fit the soldier, not the other way around.

Agree 100% I'm on a personal crusade lately against useless tech in general. I think I just need to get back up to the damn mountains for a while. Tired of cellphones and bleeping noises. (He said, rather stupidly, with his GPS in tow. :) )

[Massgrunt]

Just look at this monstrosity of a weapon:

http://i18.tinypic.com/48p38nt.jpg

What does all that shit do? It looks like the gear queer joke picture that we've all probably seen.

I thought this quote was pretty illuminating about the mindset behind crap like this:

The sight also serves as a long-range zoom, with 12x magnification. "It makes every rifleman a marksman," says Col. Richard Hansen, Land Warrior's project manager. No, training makes a marksman, not the sight. Handing me an M-40 doesn't make me a sniper. And according to the reporter, the sight is slow as fuck to adjust.

Also, the article mentions that laser designators are built into every rifle. That's great for the few in the platoon that are trained and authorized to call for air, for the other 25 guys it's a useless piece of shit on your rifle.

[Max Power]

Also, the article mentions that laser designators are built into every rifle. That's great for the few in the platoon that are trained and authorized to call for air, for the other 25 guys it's a useless piece of shit on your rifle.

Huh?

I was tracking and agreeing with everything up until this point...

PAQ-4C/PEQ-2s have more uses than just calling for air... Especially the PEQ-2.

[Massgrunt]

Huh?

I was tracking and agreeing with everything up until this point...

PAQ-4C/PEQ-2s have more uses than just calling for air... Especially the PEQ-2.
I could be wrong, but I took it to mean something bigger than that. I actually don't see a PAQ-4 or anything on there.

[Max Power]

I could be wrong, but I took it to mean something bigger than that. I actually don't see a PAQ-4 or anything on there.

Ahh, got ya.

[Terminator2]

Didn't they want to at one point combine the Land Warrior system with the OICW? With LW being $30k a pop, and the OICW having been projected at $10k per unit, plus the 18 lbs that the OICW weighed...yikes!

[Spinner]

Looks like a brigade from the 2nd ID is going to be using it in Afghanistan on their upcoming deployment.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/military/stryker/story/786135.html

[Spinner]

For the $30,000 unit cost, I could outfit an entire platoon with Rhinos (Map/GPS/Radio combination), earpieces/mics, maps in ziploc bags w/ grease pencils, and every NCO and Officer with Iridium Phones. Package weight: Joes: 1 pound, Leaders: 3 pounds.

There, now I can communicate, track friendlies, and carry a back-up comm system that can reach the White House if necessary. Oh, and each fire team can make a morale call back in bivouac.

I hope Land Warrior doesn't turn our troop into dead geeks.

Not impressed. :rolleyes:

Maybe they should have talked to you. ;)

http://www.*********.com/news/2009/11/army_landwarrior_110909w/

[Husker19D30]

From the article:Beginning next fall, equipment officials plan to outfit a Special Forces battalion with the service’s wearable command-and-control kit designed to help small units see through the fog of war.

Y'know what helps ya' see through the fog of war? Trained experienced NCOs in the TOC and teaching the line units not to perform 'field analysis'.