Military H2H (options and Practice)

[Snake]

OK,
To enumerate the things we've learned....

1) Army uses Combatives (FM 21-150), but obviously not as much as it should. No excuse for that, as we have Grunts sitting in barracks due to lack of funds to go to the field. A situation crying out for hard PT and Combatives, if I ever saw one.

2) Marines use LINE, but apparently Boot Camp doesnt instruct the proto-Jarheads, die to injury/risk-managment. Plus, they have a lock on their online library that prevents access to the Field Manual....

3) Various martial arts, both traditional and eclectic, are used by individual units. This obviously depends on the units access to instructors, plus permission from On High. Example: When I was with it (96-98), the Eighty-Deuce had Goju-Ryu instruction for the Grunts. It was OK, but my learning is in the Kyokushinkai (School of ultimate Truth), and Goju-Ryu is a little soft for me.

Question: What martial art (or Combative system) would -you- like to see taught, both in OSUT/Boot and in the line units? Obviously, things like Aikido, which take a loong time to achieve even basic competence, are right out. *Note: not slandering Aikido-ka's, it's an effective and grand Art, but it -does- take a while to get proficient.

Also: Newbies, and those who deal with them:
I head that Combatives recently got preemted by a system worked out by that Holyfield guy, the one who taught at MP school for a long time. Supposedly, its called CETA ( Close Engagment Target Aquisition) and is being taught at Benning to both OSUT and Ranger people. Any truth to this?

Also: Anyone heard of Combat Karate? Supposedly, that was being taught for a long time to SF and Airborne personnel.

Snake
25th ID(L)

[illanso]

I havent taken any formal instruction, but I'd like to see something like Jeet Kun Do or something like that tought. Somethin thats fast to learn, and versitile. And does anybody know anything about Sambo?

[PathfinderJr3325]

Sambo has two forms, combat and sport. Sport sambo is somewhat like a combination of sport jujutsu, judo, and wrestling. Combat sambo stresses fast, effective technique and simple things like low line kicks and sequential strikes. Sambo also uses the same principals for unarmed as well as armed combat like aikido does (ie:similar defense for similar motion)I have noticed a large emphasis on joint destruction, and a lack
of "farting around", in that most techniques are aimed at solving the problem and getting the hell out of there.

[illanso]

Wow, thanks. Sounds like something that'd be useful in the SF. How easy is it to teach, tho.

[PathfinderJr3325]

Combat Sambo is probably about as easy as Combatives to train in, but skill level varies with practice. It, like any other is a frangible skill

[12B]

I still think that FM 21-150 is the easiest to learn, most practical manual on last-resort fighting. Units simply have to consistently, but not nessicarilly everyday. If personnel spent 1-2 hours per training session, 3-4 times a month (if that), they would tremendous improvement in their technique. The techniques taught in FM 21-150 are simple and effective. I think that other units should train in other martial arts only after becoming very comfortable with that manual.

[JOE-BOO]

Snake...the Marine stuff is he same as ours....manual is even the same nomenclature....I'm srious...the same shit

ZULU OUT

[XS]

Go to http://www.russianmartialart.com/

[0802]

11 Zulu:
Having gone to the LINE instructor course while waiting for TBS at Quantico, I can say that it is different from the army combative program. Than GySgt Donvito created LINE by combining numerous martial arts. Many of the counter moves were based on the offensive lethal techniques of the N. Koreans and FSU troops.
There was a LINE manual, we didn't use the 21-150, i couldn't find my FMRP in my library. However the point is mute, we have just went to a new H2H style because of all the injuries in training using LINE.

[JSOCMarine]

0802,
When did you go to TBS? Who was your C.O and SPC? S/F

[0802]

JSOC:
I orginally was in Bravo 95, but got pneumonia duing the first week of the range and was put in Mike company and ended up in Charlie 95, the CO was Maj. Stillwell (0302), my SPC was Capt. Riggs (an 08), The other SPC were Capts Crabb, Fosdal, Van Opdorb, Rodriquez, Winand. They were all 0302s, the XO was a tanker, Capt. Gonsolves.

[JSOCMarine]

0802,
I know all of them, good men all. Did you ever recieve classes from Ettore, Greene, Neary, Helgeson, etc?

Were you guys the infamous "Land-Nav" company?! Semper Fi!

[0802]

Yes, that was my company the infamous "Cheating Charlie." One of my student Lt. asked me last week about that nick name.
I vaguely remember Maj. Ettore (If I remember right they refereed to him as E-tool) talking about whether you were a salad eater or a meat eater. I think we did get some classes from Capt. Greene and Neary, (Neary was a tanker right?)their names sound familiar.

[This message has been edited by 0802 (edited 06-24-2000).]

[Andy0331]

0802 & JSOC,
Late coming in this thread, just curious as to actual times you were at TBS. I was an EI with Machinegun section from '93-'95 (wow, that long ago?). Wow, those names bring back a few memories! Surprisingly, I didn't always hate you guys, esp. those who went on to IOC, always fun to play with.

Andy
kilat@atlantic.net

[0802]

Andy0331:
My class was the first to get the 240G. I remember a a very kinetic machine instructor that was a SSgt, If I remember right he had red hair. He taught a very good class on laying in the FPL. I can honestly say I learnt a lot from you and your fellow instructors while I was there.
But if anyone doubts there is a harassment package, I point to the first range were the Lts fire the 240, but prior to shooting, we low crawled around fifty meters, over a gravel parking lot to get to the guns.

[Andy0331]

0802,
Thanks for replying so fast! OK I guess I was there then as we were scrambling to get the package together on that damn thing (Great gun though). I'm guessing that the SSgt you're referring to wore glasses (dammit, I cant remember his name). Of course it wasn't harassment, it was to make you hard! LOL. We used to race the IOC Lt's in live fire Gun Drills at R-8. I used to be the only one in my section to teach the Machineguns in the Defense /PICMDEEP class in the woods at R-8, though I don't know if I ever taught it with the 240 (I left in June '95). I'm sure we saw each other though, SMALL WORLD, SMALLER CORPS!

Andy
kialt@atlantic.net