Who uses Krav Maga?

[XS]

Apart from Israel, what other armed forces use Krav Maga as the CQ fighting system?

And for those who have seen it, what are your opinions of Krav Maga?

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[Repp]

Pic of it?

[GhostDog]

In answer to your question - who uses Krav,

A Rumour is that it has been taught to Royal Marines Recce troops, and other special forces units. How correct this is, I do not know.

I also believe it has been taught/ trialled by some US special operations forces.

[MAQ]

Krav Maga is now the official combat training in belgium army.

You have a 2 weeks course to be an assistant-instructor, an 2 weeks more to be an instructor. (self-defense)

After you can folow an attack-course in the para-commando school

Maq

[LitleBird]

Krav Maga is used in FORMOZA (Polish naval SF), 1st. Commando Regiment from Lubliniec (Army SF) and in some point in GROM (Army CT).
Also in some SPAP teams (Polish police SWAT).

[Andy0331]

Hmm, bringing em back from the dead.....


Krav Maga is alright. It's basic, violent & works pretty well for what it's intended for: basic, simple training that can be taught quickly.

Is it a complete art? No.

Can it hold it's own against weak martial arts with lots of fluff? Sure.

Do I think it's the ultimate, best use of training time for someone serious about fighting. Not at all.

[Typhoon]

Can it hold it's own against weak martial arts with lots of fluff? Sure.
Yeah, but how does it hold up against a Kukri? :D

(Cross threading points here.)

[LitleBird]

I don't think it is good to match Martial Arts to military combat systems.
It's as if you wan't to know if the AH-64 is better than the A-10.
Krav Maga is NOT an Martial Art, it's a verry effective military combat system. There are no KATAS here, no spiritual doctrine. It is fast, agressive and easy to learn.
You don't brake stones or wood like Chuck Norris ;)

[socket]

Krav Maga is NOT an Martial Art, it's a verry effective military combat system. There are no KATAS here, no spiritual doctrine. It is fast, agressive and easy to learn.
While the whole krav maga 'genre' isn't really my area at all, I will say that not all martial arts have katas or 'spiritual doctrine'. You should look into boxing, wrestling, brazilian jiu-jitsu, and muay thai (and yes, I'm aware there is a spiritual aspect to it, but not in the way LitleBird means) for examples of such styles.

[LitleBird]

Yes you are right :)

[ANACONDA]

I'VE BEEN TAKING "HAGANAH" WHICH I HAVE NOTICED IS LIKE KRAV MAGA IN SOME WAYS. PRIOR TO THIS I HAD TOOK WAH LUM PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU AND TAE KWON DO.
THE HAGANAH WAS BETTER FOR ME SINCE I DON'T PLAN TO SQUAT DOWN ON THE FLOOR AND CONTORT MY BODY LIKE AN INSECT DURING A FIGHT.
IT'S MORE PRACTICAL THAN PRETTY.

[LitleBird]

Well :rolleyes: If you say so ;)

[Guinnessman]

I'VE BEEN TAKING "HAGANAH" WHICH I HAVE NOTICED IS LIKE KRAV MAGA IN SOME WAYS. PRIOR TO THIS I HAD TOOK WAH LUM PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU AND TAE KWON DO.
THE HAGANAH WAS BETTER FOR ME SINCE I DON'T PLAN TO SQUAT DOWN ON THE FLOOR AND CONTORT MY BODY LIKE AN INSECT DURING A FIGHT.
IT'S MORE PRACTICAL THAN PRETTY.

I've been thinking about taking up Haganah myself. How's it coming along for you?

[Adam Wilhelm]

Krav Maga is also Swedens offical military combat system.

[LitleBird]

Yep, thats right.
"Kravka" is used in....oh just look here (http://www.krav-maga.com/locations.html) :p

[SGTROCK]

AFOSI trains in KM

Rock

[LitleBird]

AFOSI ? who are they ?

ok, nevermind, used google :rolleyes:

[navman]

Just a quick BTW. Haganah is a derivative of basic Krav Maga with more "killing" moves added to it. It is sold as a martial arts product commercially and was developed by a former Israeli SF soldier. Yes I do have the DVD set :D . It addreses situations that are not typically addressed until level 3 in KM.

KM is a rather effective, down and dirty fighting style. I started with it at KMSD 4 years ago. I personaly like the way it builds on the bodies natural reaction to a given situation. Taking your natural instict and body mechanics and following through.

[LitleBird]

I started 3 years ago, but now my instructor has been reasigned and I don't know what will be of my team now :(

[GreenMeany 5]

I don't think it is good to match Martial Arts to military combat systems.
It's as if you wan't to know if the AH-64 is better than the A-10.
Krav Maga is NOT an Martial Art, it's a verry effective military combat system. There are no KATAS here, no spiritual doctrine. It is fast, agressive and easy to learn.
You don't brake stones or wood like Chuck Norris ;)

Without meaning to give offense, It was my understanding that the term "Martial" was synonymous with the term "Military". I could be misunderstanding the term or your post. Just my two cents.

Oh, just for the record, I study Muay Thai and a form of KM called Lotar. I like them both. Both are very useful.

From The Marriam-Webster online Thesaurus --- http://www.m-w.com/

Entry Word: martial
Function: adjective
Text: 1 of, relating to, or suitable for war or a warrior <the young recruit looked all grown up in his new martial uniform>
Synonyms military, soldierly
Related Words aggressive, bellicose, combative, contentious, guerrilla, pugnacious, quarrelsome, scrappy, truculent, warlike; belligerent, militant, warring; antagonistic, argumentative, fierce, gladiatorial, hot-tempered; mercenary
Near Antonyms civil, civilian, nonmilitary; conciliatory, nonviolent, pacific, peaceable, peaceful; affable, amiable, amicable, benevolent, complaisant, cordial, easygoing, friendly, genial, good-natured, gracious, ingratiating, obliging
Antonyms unsoldierly

[antennafarm]

Is it a complete art? No.

Can it hold it's own against weak martial arts with lots of fluff? Sure.

Do I think it's the ultimate, best use of training time for someone serious about fighting. Not at all.

If you don't mind my tangent: where is Krav Maga weak?

I've been curious about it for a while ...

[Oziman]

If you don't mind my tangent: where is Krav Maga weak?

I've been curious about it for a while ...

This is just my NIS.02, but from what I've been taught and from some of the krav maga guys I hung out with back in the day, it's not meant for long term fighting, and I always got the feeling it was more of an offensive system then a defensive system, but I have to put a caveat there: In the IDF, the people who go through Anti-Terror school get the **** beat out of them as part of their training. The rest of us, unfortunately (and I mean that very seriously, better in training then real life), don't get that.

I also think KM is weak in the training- it's not that much to learn, but you have to CONSTANTLY practice it to really get the hang of it, which I don't know if there is enough emphasis on that.

Cheers,
Ari

[Andy0331]

If you don't mind my tangent: where is Krav Maga weak?

I've been curious about it for a while ...


I didn't say it was "weak", I said that it isn't the ultimate fighting style/system/art, whatever.

Maybe I'm biased because I've actually dedicated a lot of time training in other arts.. Maybe I've spent enough time around Krav Maga & some of it's top guys to have that opinion..

I'm not knocking Krav Maga, but it has it's limits. It's a great entry level system of self defense, but will not give you the same options you would encounter by dedicated training in other systems.

Keep in mind that most hand to hand fighting styles developed for military use are purposely limited. Fighting & killing are far more efficient when performed with "tools"; firearms, tanks, arty, bombs. It makes much more sense to develop proficiency & mastery of those "tools" than it does to kill via kicking, punching, joint manipulations, knives, etc.

I'm not knocking Krav Maga, far from it, I'm just trying to let people realize it's not the holy grail of unarmed fighting.

[chokeu2]

I'll jump in here, for the sake of perspective, perhaps...

My experience with KM was when one of the larger KM systems approached my coach and I, with an offer to make us Senior Instructors, if we would integrate ourselves into their organization.

To me, that reaked of being more of a marketing system (much like our friends in SCARs), as opposed to a fighting system.

Understand, I am not saying that is KM entirely, that has been my exposure for the most part. Outside of a training session here and there with some practicioners. That in itself concerned me because they were taught to try and actually kick a weapon out of my hand... No conditioning to speak of, and no ability to get off the ground, or if stuck on the ground, what to do there.

I hate to characterize this art in that sense, but that is the only experiences I've had with it. The perception that I have is that it is re-packaged TMA of various styles. Thing is that I doubt that is the case as trained by the IDF.

[LitleBird]

I'm just trying to let people realize it's not the holy grail of unarmed fighting.

You know, funny thing, only those that had very little exp. with this system think of it as the "ultimate OMFG etc. etc.".
Many of my Krav Maga friends also train Karate, box, Thai boxing etc. etc.

The media shows a compleatly different image of Krav Maga, the n00bs who are only one month, they buy the t-shirt and then tell amasing stories about the system just make us laugh :D

Belive me, I've heard it all ;)

[312Marine]

In the IDF, the people who go through Anti-Terror school get the **** beat out of them as part of their training. The rest of us, unfortunately (and I mean that very seriously, better in training then real life), don't get that.

Amen. An often overlooked aspect of training - getting a taste of the wrong end of a beating. I'm a big supporter of the Tazer and Pepper Spray training - you're a much better judge of appropriate use of force if you've been on the receiving end. IMHO.

[Oziman]

I'll jump in here, for the sake of perspective, perhaps...

My experience with KM was when one of the larger KM systems approached my coach and I, with an offer to make us Senior Instructors, if we would integrate ourselves into their organization.

To me, that reaked of being more of a marketing system (much like our friends in SCARs), as opposed to a fighting system.

Understand, I am not saying that is KM entirely, that has been my exposure for the most part. Outside of a training session here and there with some practicioners. That in itself concerned me because they were taught to try and actually kick a weapon out of my hand... No conditioning to speak of, and no ability to get off the ground, or if stuck on the ground, what to do there.

I hate to characterize this art in that sense, but that is the only experiences I've had with it. The perception that I have is that it is re-packaged TMA of various styles. Thing is that I doubt that is the case as trained by the IDF.

I'm not an expert on Krav Maga. I know a few guys who have been taught to teach it in the army, and they had previous backgrounds in other martial art systems (and they were mostly nuts, but I digress.. too much full contact). Because of it's popularity, there are some people who have taken it abroad and tried to sell it for something it's not. In other words, there are Legitimate places overseas, and there are also a bunch of clowns overseas who will make you an "Instructor" after 3 days. They give the system a bad name.

As for the IDF: Training to be an instructor is done at the Army's Phsyical Fitness Center near Netanya. These people then go back to all the units and teach them. Certain SF units will get more advanced training, most of the combat units will get some type of training and periodic refresher coursers, and everyone learns the annoying 5 step attack method with an M16.
I'm finally out of the service, and I still know it all by heart. *Sigh*.

Just some more info for y'all.

[Hoepoe]

Hi all

Interesting thread and good points by all.

My .02 :

There are several "flavours" of KM, there is KM as taught to regular military units, there is KM as taught in private schools and has a competative circuit and grading system, and then there is what I term operational KM which is as taught to CT/SF military units as well as other securty related units.

One should keep this in mind when relating to KM.

The main differences with these 'flavours' is focus and attitude. They are all, however called Krav Maga and are all indeed Krav Maga.

Km is not the Holy Grail to fighting arts, there is no Holy Grail to fighting arts (if there was, it would clearly be Hakido, so beautiful). Some men like blondes, others brunettes, some like other men; it is all a matter of preferance and what works for you.

I know Karateka that are for lack of a better term, shit hot and can and have kicked serious ass is a real situation. It is not about KM, K1, cage or anything else, it is about you, the practitioner, what works for you, what is suited to your mind and body. Train train train and enjoy. Of the few arts i tasted, i enjoyed KM the most because it was most suited to me and the way my body works. It was simply most fun for me. Oh and when i needed to be proffecient in H2H, i won when it counted and sometimes lost too, because of KM? I don't know, i like to think it had some part to play in survival.

Hoepoe

[312Marine]

It's not really about teaching you to judge appropriate use of force. Actually, it's not about that at all. Basically they beat the shit out of you to toughen you up: they can't refine your reflexes nor instill techniques to the point of instinct in the very limited amount of time they have with you, but they can make you tough enough not to get (as easily) injured nor to care when you're hit. So they teach maximum agressiveness and tougness; when shit hits the fan, you're gonna get hit, and hurt, but you'll still be functioning through all but the worst stuff. of course you can't toughen a head. ;)

I'm with you, Poison. Just pointing out that only a small percentage of people who learn some form of self-defense have actually been in a confrontation and gone hands-on. The guy at the bar talking a big game typically hasn't even been in an arm wrestling match let alone a full blown brawl.

[TacMedic748]

Here is my .02 on this subject. Over the years I have had the oppurtunity to study many different types of martial arts, my emphasis was on Karate, however that wasnt fun, it was forced on to me...anyway.
If you want to be good at hand to hand combat no one system will get you there. Every system has strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, get familliar with a few different systems to be ready for more than one type of scenario.
I have never taken Krav Maga but have researched it pretty extensivly and will probably take it in the future. It looks like a pretty good "violence of action" technique.
Oh yeah one more thing, dont discredit the "spiritual" part of a martial art. This actually can be very beneficial to you in a confrontation. It will help you to calmly focus on your opponent and not lose your wits. You must control the adrenaline, the adrenalline should not control you.
Okay I rambled and apologize. Just wanted to voice.

[chokeu2]

No system is worth a damn, if it does not have live training, period. If you do not know how to deliver a shot at full speed, and TAKE a shot at full speed; you'll most likely melt the first time you get popped, or the first time you get taken to the ground.

Not only the above, but you need to learn how to control your shots. Knowing when to absolutely crush someone, or completely crank off on a joint is as important as devastation. And you do not learn the levels of force unless you know what 100% is.

You need to be able to go at full speed, and have in mind what you want to do three moves from now if it goes that far, while under max duress. The only way to learn it is to do it. I've been around the arts for a long time as well. And I learned that I did not really know anything until I did it at full speed. No "scenarios", no slow speed stuff. "Real" fights are made up of gross body movements. Pretty kicks, or half assed joint locks are not going to work on a dude that is jacked up on adrenaline, drugs, booze. Like water finding a hole in a bag, that guy will get out of half assed moves learned at less than full speed.

So choose your style, and make sure your body can make it work at full speed.