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Sharky
8 June 2007, 16:05
Trial Opens in Italy Against CIA Agents
06/08/2007 18:49 GMT

By COLLEEN BARRY

Associated Press Writer


MILAN, Italy

The first trial involving the CIA's extraordinary rendition program opened in Italy on Friday without the presence of any of the 26 American defendants _ a case that threatens to expose the workings of the U.S. and Italian intelligence agencies.

Highlighting the strain the trial has placed on U.S.-Italian relations, it began on the same day President Bush arrived in Rome for meetings with the pope, Italy's premier and president.

After ruling on several motions, the judge postponed the trial until June 18 so he could consider a defense request to suspend the proceedings until Italy's Constitutional Court rules on matters related to the case later this year.

The Italian government has asked the country's highest court to throw out the indictments against the Americans _ all but one of them believed to be CIA agents _ who are accused of abducting Osama Moustafa Hassan Nasr from a Milan street on Feb. 17, 2003.

The government is concerned that a trial might embarrass Italy's intelligence community over the handling of a highly secret operation by publicly airing details about the U.S. program of extraordinary rendition. The program moves terrorism suspects from country to country without public legal proceedings.

Italian prosecutors say Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, was abducted in an operation coordinated by the CIA and Italian intelligence, then transferred to U.S. bases in Italy and Germany before being moved to Egypt, where he was imprisoned for four years. Nasr, who was released Feb. 11, said he was tortured.

Prosecutor Armando Spataro argued vigorously that the court must continue its deliberations despite the pending case in the highest court.

"In a democracy, the separation of powers is critical," Spataro told the court. He also denied any state secrets were involved in the preparation of the case.

In addition to the Americans, seven Italians were also indicted in the case, including Nicolo Pollari, the former chief of military intelligence. Pollari, who was not present Friday, has denied any involvement by Italian intelligence in the abduction.

Pollari's lawyer, Titta Madia, said he sought the suspension so both sides know which evidence can be used.

Only one defendant showed up in court, Luciano di Gregori, who worked at the Italian intelligence agency at the time of Nasr's abduction. "I have been doing this work for 33 years," di Gregori said. "I did it with my head held high and in the full light of day. I have nothing to hide."

The 26 Americans, meanwhile, have left Italy, and a senior U.S. official has said they would not be turned over for prosecution even if Rome requests it. The government has not yet responded to prosecutors' requests to seek their extradition.

In Friday's hearing, Magi allowed Nasr and his wife to be listed as injured parties in the case, a status that allows their lawyers to question witnesses alongside the prosecution. However, Magi rejected a bid to name the CIA and the Italian intelligence agency as responsible parties. Such a move could have exposed the agencies to possible financial damages in the event of convictions.

Magi also denied another defense motion to strip the Americans of their fugitive status and another to close the trial to the public.

Nasr's Egyptian lawyer traveled to Italy to participate in the trial and said Nasr wanted to do the same, even though he would face an Italian arrest warrant, but was being prevented from leaving Egypt. He also said Nasr's wife, Nabila Ghali, tried to leave for Italy early Friday to attend the trial but was stopped by authorities at the airport.

"His presence is very important because he brings the accusations to life," said Montasser al-Zayat.

At the time of his abduction, Nasr was under investigation, but a warrant for his arrest was not issued until about two years after he was imprisoned in Egypt. Al-Zayat said Nasr has lost about 70 percent of his hearing in both ears, has a lesion on his spine and suffers depression as a result of the torture he endured.

Critics of the extraordinary rendition program were watching the trial closely.

"It is painful to see the type of treatment meted to prosecutors of the caliber of Armando Spataro and Fernando Pomarici _ public prosecutors who for years have been fighting terrorism, not without great personal risk, and always with great respect to the rule of law," Council of Europe investigator Dick Marty wrote in a report released Friday that accused Italy and Germany of obstructing investigations into alleged secret detentions by the CIA.

ContinentalOp
8 June 2007, 23:47
I live in Italy most of the year. I'm not sure anyone in Europe takes Italian courts seriously. Especially Italians. It's a damn circus (like the Italian justice system as a whole) designed so that the leftists in Prodi's coalition can show they wield authority (while simultaneously changing nothing about our relationship.)

Unfortunately, it sets a bad precedent for other courts and makes everyone involved look damn silly.

Aerofierous
9 June 2007, 00:38
I think that's all a bunch of BS, yea they extradicted him from the country and took him into custody for interrogation, but there was a legitimate threat. He is a terrorist, and they had to act immediately with the intel they had. I don't think they were wrong in doing so, but I'm sure they failed to notify a few people about their intentions, which got a bunch of panties bunched up, boo hoo.

guns
9 June 2007, 00:46
I think that's all a bunch of BS, yea they extradicted him from the country and took him into custody for interrogation, but there was a legitimate threat. He is a terrorist, and they had to act immediately with the intel they had. I don't think they were wrong in doing so, but I'm sure they failed to notify a few people about their intentions, which got a bunch of panties bunched up, boo hoo.

Exactly. What is the problem here? A known terrorist was taken off the streets, but since the "right" people weren't notified now OUR guys are in trouble? That is fucking ludicrous. When will people learn that this is not the way to deal with terrorists? :mad:

Aerofierous
9 June 2007, 00:49
For real, what do they want?

"Hey guys, we have reason to believe soandso is a terrorist."

"Do you have credible intel to verify this?"

"Yes we do."

"Ok, let me call up everyone I know and ask them what we should do."

"No dude, you dont fucking get it, we need to take him into custody NOW, before something bad happens."

"Hang on, my CO has me on hold........"

guns
9 June 2007, 00:56
For real, what do they want?

"Hey guys, we have reason to believe soandso is a terrorist."

"Do you have credible intel to verify this?"

"Yes we do."

"Ok, let me call up everyone I know and ask them what we should do."

"No dude, you dont fucking get it, we need to take him into custody NOW, before something bad happens."

"Hang on, my CO has me on hold........"

That would be funny if it wasn't so true.

Jimbo
9 June 2007, 11:14
What is the problem here?

The problem is our guys were very sloppy.

The91Bravo
9 June 2007, 11:23
I really hope that whatever HUMINT sources were exposed or compromised, are not exposed in the court.. People get dead that way..

And I am not eating any Italian food any more... Pricks..

And I am not going to by that new Ferrari either... like I could anyway..

Massgrunt
9 June 2007, 11:59
"In a democracy, the separation of powers is critical," Spataro told the court. He also denied any state secrets were involved in the preparation of the case.
Oh. Well, I guess it's okay then. I mean, I'm sure he's perfectly qualified to make that judgement.

91B, from my very limited understanding of this mess (mostly from reading here), it's a unilateral move by prosecuters, and not endorsed by the government. Remember, the government of Italy was part of this and have a few people indicted. Then again, it happened on Berlusconi's watch and now it's Prodi.

Jimbo
9 June 2007, 22:50
For real, what do they want?

"Hey guys, we have reason to believe soandso is a terrorist."

"Do you have credible intel to verify this?"

"Yes we do."

"Ok, let me call up everyone I know and ask them what we should do."

"No dude, you dont fucking get it, we need to take him into custody NOW, before something bad happens."

"Hang on, my CO has me on hold........"

What are you talking about? Are you not familiar with this incident? Your pithy little scenario is a complete non sequitor.

No one is questioning the intel or the expediency with which the operation was conducted.

Some folks in Italy are bent out of shape because they think Italian laws were broken. Here's the thing: they are possibly correct. What is involved here is the concept of covert operations and what happens when you don't stay covert. That is all.

Cass
10 June 2007, 13:27
What are you talking about? Are you not familiar with this incident? Your pithy little scenario is a complete non sequitor.

No one is questioning the intel or the expediency with which the operation was conducted.

Some folks in Italy are bent out of shape because they think Italian laws were broken. Here's the thing: they are possibly correct. What is involved here is the concept of covert operations and what happens when you don't stay covert. That is all.

Jimbo
Correcto Mundo. It has been a long standing necessary practice to get the permission of the host country to conduct any form, however, slight, of covert ops within the foriegn host country. What compromises or leaks occured I am not aware of as my local news rag prints only what they know. But I assure all that any Agency operator worth his salt with any tenure knows all covert operations eventually are compromised and an end cover story with backup principles and contacts are already at the ready.

There was some lax attention here.

Corsair
10 June 2007, 13:31
We should just start wasting fuckers ala Mossad...
If you are going to screw up do it in a way that at least makes you seem ruthless not incompetent.

Aerofierous
10 June 2007, 13:39
What are you talking about? Are you not familiar with this incident? Your pithy little scenario is a complete non sequitor.

No one is questioning the intel or the expediency with which the operation was conducted.

Some folks in Italy are bent out of shape because they think Italian laws were broken. Here's the thing: they are possibly correct. What is involved here is the concept of covert operations and what happens when you don't stay covert. That is all.

Roger that, I was under the impression that they didn't properly notify the Italian authorities, that is all.

SOTB
4 November 2009, 12:36
In advance, Jimbo's comments are the ones I consider most important or relevant. These dudes were lax, and because of that, lots of things snowballed. The upside is that hopefully there were a lot of lessons learned.

Anyway, convictions and sentences handed out (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,571614,00.html?test=latestnews). Bummer for the Italians involved who may still have lengthy legal situations to continue to have to fund.

Ironically, I wonder if we will ever see one of these Americans extradited to Italy from a country that has an extradition treaty with Italy? You know, while on vacation, or the plane breaks down and they have an unintended stop? Etc. That would be uncool....

B 2/75
4 November 2009, 14:21
The Italians are on our side... had we approached them with our intentions, we would have had their full cooperation. Hell, they like nothing more than to get even peripherally involved in a US operation (of ANY kind). We pissed them off by operating in their front yard without letting them know beforehand, or asking permission.

Sucks for those guys who can't travel to Europe anymore, now that they're convicts... :(

RangerCharlie
4 November 2009, 14:27
I thought you couldn't post an article without commenting on the article yourself?

:D

just poking at Sharky...

Jimbo
4 November 2009, 14:29
We pissed them off by operating in their front yard without letting them know beforehand, or asking permission.

Not sure that is the case.

poison
4 November 2009, 14:55
We should just start wasting fuckers ala Mossad...
If you are going to screw up do it in a way that at least makes you seem ruthless not incompetent.


Won't anyone think of the waiters????

Hoepoe
4 November 2009, 15:08
Won't anyone think of the waiters????

lol

Hawk14
4 November 2009, 15:32
What's interesting to me, and i will not judge or state if it was fair or unfair, is how Jeffrey Castelli and Nicolo Pollari were acquitted of the charges because they were protected by state secrecy rules. It also frustrates me when events like this happen because they were just following orders...they must of had SOMETHING on Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr to perform this "extraordinary rendition."