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Flying Pig
10 July 2007, 16:40
When did Marines start wearing the "Combat Diver" badge vs the regular "SCUBA" badge?
When did Marines start wearing the "Combat Diver" badge vs the regular "SCUBA" badge?
I am not 100% sure on the date I want to say the MCO came out about 1997 or so.
For all Marines who attended Combat Divers Course. I had to do a trans course. I then had to go to Kadena and Main Land Japan to get my diving chamber cert.
RAT OUT!!!
Neck535
11 July 2007, 10:08
The Combatant Diver badge shown did not replace the regular Navy SCUBA badge.
Only Force Recon and perhaps MarSOC (to the best of my knowledge) can earn the Combatant Diver, while several other MOS's can earn the SCUBA. It did not replace it, just a separate designation.
From the order, list of authorized Divers Insignia devices:
d. Diver Insignia
(1) The master diver insignia is a silver pin approximately 1 inch
high and 1-1/4 inches wide, with 2 upright seahorses facing a diving helmet,
and 2 tridents projecting upward and canted outward from the diving helmet's
cover. A double carrick bend is superimposed on the breastplate.
(2) The diving medical technician insignia is same as the master diver
insignia, with a caduceus on the breastplate.
(3) The first class diver insignia is a silver metal pin approximately
1 inch high and 1-inch wide, with a diving helmet surrounded by sea serpents.
(4) The combatant diver insignia is a gold pin approximately 1-inch
and 15/16 inch wide, consisting of wet suit headgear and low profile facemask
with chest mounted breathing apparatus.
(5) The second class diver insignia is a silver metal pin
approximately one inch high and 3/4 inches wide, with a diving helmet and
breastplate.
(6) The SCUBA diver insignia is a silver pin approximately 1-1/16
inches high and 1 inch wide, consisting of wet suit headgear and facemask
with breathing apparatus around the neck.
That was my understanding. It has been a while, so I might be off on the eligibility.
We were not talking about SCUBA badges, but Combat Divers Course.
2 totally different courses.
You have to have attended a Combat Divers Course either JFKSW CDC KW or the MCDC PC. (A BUD/s Grad I assume would qual to wear the CDB if the came in to the Corps. I have never heard of a SEAL transfering in to the Corps.)
RAT OUT!!!
We were not talking about SCUBA badges, but Combat Divers Course....No, but the reg above does demonstrate that there are various diving insignia authorized for wear in the Corps -- although that might not have been a part of Flying Pig's curiosity.
I do remember seeing one Marine with a hardhat insignia, but I don't remember how he came by it, or where he was stationed.
In my case, I had always wondered if those that had gone through Navy SCUBA school, and then had done the Draeger transition course, if they would have worn the Combat Diver Badge. Personally, I thought the silver and gold contrast was way cooler than gold and gold....
In my case, I had always wondered if those that had gone through Navy SCUBA school, and then had done the Draeger transition course, if they would have worn the Combat Diver Badge. Personally, I thought the silver and gold contrast was way cooler than gold and gold....
Yes, you would have worn the Gold. :D
Cool Dude.
RO!!!!
Neck535
11 July 2007, 12:07
I guess I had a little diaharrea of the keyboard. My point was that the Combatant Diver Badge is separate, and did not replace the scuba bubble, answering Pig's question.
Sorry for the confusion Rat.
I guess I had a little diaharrea of the keyboard. My point was that the Combatant Diver Badge is separate, and did not replace the scuba bubble, answering Pig's question.
Sorry for the confusion Rat.
Got ya.. No worries.
I guess my post came out like a dick as well. Sorry.
RO!!!
sarc88
11 July 2007, 14:47
1) It was 2000-2001 while I was at MCD
2) MK25 transitions are no longer authorized - but if members did complete an authorized transition course prior to 2002, they may be authorized to wear the MCD badge.
JSOC Marine 82
12 July 2007, 21:38
When I was at JSOC, about 1982 or 83, some of the dev grp guys got me up to the Draeger factory in Pittsburg. I went though a short, factory taught transistion course. I did most of my requals until I left JSOC with the SEALS and the LAR 5.
When I took 1st. Recon. in '85, the battalion only had open circuit. When I went to SPECWAR in '87, until I retired in '92, most of my requail dives were with the LAR 5. This included some dives with BUD/S classes.
In 2002 I attended the 1st Recon birthday ball. The battalion Sgt. Major, who was/is an old friend, told me that I should be wearing the combat diver badge vice the silver SCUBA badge.
At my age and since I only wear my badges/medals for the balls, it's kinda a moot point but, out of curiosity, do I really rate the badge?
lawdog
12 July 2007, 22:11
Thats right Doc(Sarc88). I was in the last class that was issued the Silver bubble. MCD 03/01. The order came out shorthly after, changing to the Gold.
EasyRunGent's
12 July 2007, 22:23
When I was at JSOC, about 1982 or 83, some of the dev grp guys got me up to the Draeger factory in Pittsburg. I went though a short, factory taught transistion course. I did most of my requals until I left JSOC with the SEALS and the LAR 5.
When I took 1st. Recon. in '85, the battalion only had open circuit. When I went to SPECWAR in '87, until I retired in '92, most of my requail dives were with the LAR 5. This included some dives with BUD/S classes.
In 2002 I attended the 1st Recon birthday ball. The battalion Sgt. Major, who was/is an old friend, told me that I should be wearing the combat diver badge vice the silver SCUBA badge.
At my age and since I only wear my badges/medals for the balls, it's kinda a moot point but, out of curiosity, do I really rate the badge?
Sir,
Glad to see you back again.
freds4
12 July 2007, 22:51
Since you did a transition course prior to 2002 then I would say yes, you do rate the Combatant Diver insignia, vice the basic one.
Oh and as a side note (The 1stSgt. coming out in me) they are known as "breast insignia", not badges.
....Oh and as a side note (The 1stSgt. coming out in me) they are known as "breast insignia", not badges.Yes, but in almost 10 years of wearing them, EXCEPT for formal and written orders -- and senior SNCOs, I never heard anyone ever refer to them as "breast insignias".
Example:Plt Sgt: Andy, the 1st Sgt has a case of the ass that you still aren't wearing your badges.
Me: Its a CAMOUFLAGE uniform, "badges" detract from that whole concept.
Plt Sgt: You're in the rear -- camouflage isn't required here. Only when in the field.
Me: OK, I'll put them on.
Fast forward a week.
Plt Sgt: Andy, the 1st Sgt is STILL pissed about your badges. I thought you said you were going to start wearing them.
Me: Oh yeah, Sorry, you're right.
Fast forward a week.
Plt Sgt: Andy, didn't you say....Anyway, badges is what everyone calls 'em....
Silverbullet
13 July 2007, 07:53
Oh and as a side note (The 1stSgt. coming out in me) they are known as "breast insignia", not badges.
Huh? No one ever referred to them like that.
Digger, you rate the MCD Badge. Call me if you have any other questions.
Must be the SGTMajor coming out in me we called them badges:D
NightLandNav
13 July 2007, 09:08
If I had ever heard "breast insignia", I would have thought they meant boobs.
Seriously.
Dutch8654
13 July 2007, 09:11
I do remember seeing one Marine with a hardhat insignia, but I don't remember how he came by it, or where he was stationed.
In K-Bay the Sgt who ran the pre-SCUBA went through the school with the Marines. I think one or two developed that relationship enough to attend the 2nd Class Divers Course from what I remember. Not sure if it continued but thats one explanation. If you have a name I would probably remember it. Badges and white T-shirts in Cammies irked me too.
Do I really rate the badge?
Do you really want the answer??? :eek: :D
We all know officers are not operators.... Oooohhh ooohhhh hahahahahahahaha :D
Sir,
If you decided to wear any type of bling bling on your chest, I doubt anyone would have the back ground to say shit.
RO!!!
Only Hard Hat I knew in the Corps was Manard.
RO!!!
Global Med
13 July 2007, 16:42
When Coronado Island’s dive school program was up and running all the Marine instructors there were Hard Hat Divers. The goal for them was to be able to also teach Second Class Dive School when a SCUBA class was not in session. I.E SgtMaj Mc comes to mind.
When I was in we had duel cool scuba and jump, Duel cool lead sled army jump wings, triple threats jump scuba and ranger school, and quad bodsjump scuba,ranger and a tour with the Royal Marines How do you distinguish between duel cool and the new insignia? Double Gold?
When I was in we had duel cool scuba and jump, Duel cool lead sled army jump wings, triple threats jump scuba and ranger school, and quad bodsjump scuba,ranger and a tour with the Royal Marines How do you distinguish between duel cool and the new insignia? Double Gold?
If you are saying after your 10 jumps and you recive gold wings ...
Then Yes it would be gold and gold.
RO!!!
All students out of MCD in Panama City wear the gold device now, annotates the full spectrum of diving for them, where the SCUBA bubble was for earlier qualed divers prior to the inceptoin of the ful blown MCD course.. If you remember them, Gysgt C and MSGT Mr were hard hat qualed at Coronado, and I think at the time a SSgt B? My memory fails me.
DeepC sends
Silverbullet
17 July 2007, 17:25
Let's watch the PerSec on this thread.
Thanks
sarc88
18 July 2007, 13:29
I had a hard time with the hard hat badges worn by Recon guys, because it only represents a one-time qualification. Those Marines/Sailors who are Combatant divers will NEVER be fleet hardhatters, even tho they did graduate due to being on instructor status at the school.
I'm not taking anything away from their accomplishment of graduating the course/s. Although the uniform regs do allow members to "wear the highest qualification attained", a closer look reveals that "current billet" takes precedence (i.e. pilots wearing parachutist badge senior to their flight officer badge when assigned to ground units).
Just my opinion - we went thru all this when the design ideas for the new MCD badge were submitted to HQMC (which is whole new topic!) I'm not trying to bash anyone or open a dialogue on manuals.
Well badges are for FAG's...
:D
RO!!!
I had a hard time with the hard hat badges worn by Recon guys, because it only represents a one-time qualification. Those Marines/Sailors who are Combatant divers will NEVER be fleet hardhatters, even tho they did graduate due to being on instructor status at the school.
I'm not taking anything away from their accomplishment of graduating the course/s. Although the uniform regs do allow members to "wear the highest qualification attained", a closer look reveals that "current billet" takes precedence (i.e. pilots wearing parachutist badge senior to their flight officer badge when assigned to ground units).
Just my opinion - we went thru all this when the design ideas for the new MCD badge were submitted to HQMC (which is whole new topic!) I'm not trying to bash anyone or open a dialogue on manuals.
BTW, MCO 1020.34_ does establish the precedence for qualification badges. They should be worn in the following order from top to bottom...
Scuba or MCD
EOD badge
Parachutist badge (lead or gold)
Aviation insignia (pilot, NFO, etc.)
Basically they go smallest at top to biggest on the bottom. Current billet doesn't change the precedence of the badges.
ussfpa
18 July 2007, 17:59
Breast Insignia=NIPPLE
PA :D
Current billet doesn't change the precedence of the badges.Hardhat badges are not large. I believe sarc88 is referring to whether one would wear a SCUBA badge, MCD, or the Hardhat badge. I do not know anything about the reg he refers to, though -- simply because I would never have been in a position to have to wonder which one to wear....
sarc88
18 July 2007, 21:35
If you are a Combatant Diver on instructor duty at NDSTC and have the opportunity to get MK21 qual'd, does that make you a Deep Sea diver? NO - it makes you a Combatant Diver... who got a rare chance to attend and graduate yet another challenging course. If the USMC needed us to be hat qual'd, we'd have billets.
The MCD badge denotes our OCCUPATION.
When worn by one of us, the Deep Sea badges only denote GRADUATION.
The MCD badge denotes our OCCUPATION....In this sense, I believe you are incorrect -- at least as far as official policy goes. LOTS of Marines are wearing badges they received for attending a course and obtaining a qualification, said "skill" being something they might never be in a billet to utilize ever again.
You might have a point, and while I do not agree with it (while I didn't care about whether I wore a badge or not, I am not willing to tell others they should not wear theirs), more importantly -- I don't think there is a reg describing anything to support it....
T-Rock
19 July 2007, 01:38
In K-Bay the Sgt who ran the pre-SCUBA went through the school with the Marines. I think one or two developed that relationship enough to attend the 2nd Class Divers Course from what I remember.
FWIW......don't remember his name but we had a jar......I mean Marine, who frequently dove with us in Kings Bay in order to maintain his dive quals (85-86 time frame)........super guy......he wore the 2nd class pin and had coke bottle glasses....:D
sarc88
19 July 2007, 08:30
SOTB, point taken. I had a couple 1LT's in my SCUBA class at Pearl who got their seats from 3rd MAR REG as incentives. They were in AAV's and would prob never dive again in the Corps.
Today, however, there are no authorized dive billets or paid school seats in the USMC except Combatant Divers - which is why I made the occupation comment. Not necessarily true for other badges, i.e. airborne, which is still used as an incentive.
Sarc when were you in Hawaii. I was there from 79-85
sarc88
19 July 2007, 12:08
Gags, 86-90. A 1/3 then A 3rd Recon
Hardhat badges are not large. I believe sarc88 is referring to whether one would wear a SCUBA badge, MCD, or the Hardhat badge. I do not know anything about the reg he refers to, though -- simply because I would never have been in a position to have to wonder which one to wear....
Check.
I see several guys still wearing the "old-style" SCUBA badges. When I was in K-Bay (00-04), we sent several of our EOD techs to the dive school at Pearl and they came back wearing the SCUBA badge. None of them got dive pay (AFAIK), it was just a skill set they said they needed. I've never seen a Marine wearing any dive badges except the MCD or SCUBA badge. I don't think any other badges are even technically authorized, but I'd have to check the MCO to be sure.
Hell, I had a Marine a few years ago walking around wearing 1/2 a pilot's wing and claiming he'd been to ballon school in Alabama (poser). The balloon pilot badge has been defunct for decades...
Check.
I see several guys still wearing the "old-style" SCUBA badges. When I was in K-Bay (00-04), we sent several of our EOD techs to the dive school at Pearl and they came back wearing the SCUBA badge. None of them got dive pay (AFAIK), it was just a skill set they said they needed. I've never seen a Marine wearing any dive badges except the MCD or SCUBA badge. I don't think any other badges are even technically authorized, but I'd have to check the MCO to be sure.
Hell, I had a Marine a few years ago walking around wearing 1/2 a pilot's wing and claiming he'd been to ballon school in Alabama (poser). The balloon pilot badge has been defunct for decades...
I stand corrected. I just looked up the order and the following dive badges are authorized...
Master Diver
Diving Med Tech
1st Class Diver
Combatant Diver
2nd Class Diver
SCUBA
My bad. Here's the reference; see paragraph 4002.
PDF link (http://www.usmc.mil/directiv.nsf/0dce83e13c9c8aa685256c0c0066c2e0/6d62f5fbea2cc03a85256850005ee8de/$FILE/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-4.pdf)
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