Mosquito/Insect Repellent

[Don-S]

I'm camping 3 days in the TX hill country and I need a good insect repellent. From what I have been reading sounds like Deep Woods OFF sportsman pump with the 98% DEET is the strongest? but I have been reading that it melts plastics (sounds like its hard on gear?) anyone else heard this? I also heard the bottle falls apart in pack... :(

Anyone have experience with this that can recommend it or another product?

[The Corporate Guy]

Yup, works great on bugs, but you don't want it touching plastics.

[EATIII]

isnt it packaged in a plastic bottel? Sorrry!

[Don-S]

So what do HSLD use?.... Mud? :) ... Do you think it is worth it for protection or should I go with something else?

[EATIII]

So what do HSLD use?.... Mud? :) ... Do you think it is worth it for protection or should I go with something else?
go with it, I like the old issue but havent seen that in awile! or go with Repell.

you cant go wrong with 98% deet!

[RAT]

Being from Houston you don't know????

I uses baby oil... I have lived in Houston for over 30yrs.


RO!!!

[Don-S]

Baby Oil.. How does that work?

[chuterigger]

My unit had a bunch of high concentration deet cream. Didn't seem to work well.

I now use the 98% bottle you are talking about, found that it works pretty well and is compact. I wouldn't worry to much about it spilling and eating your pack, but if it bothers you zip lock it.

Oh shit zip locks are plastic, damn the bottle is plastic too.

You're OK=)

Edited to add, just pulled it out of my pack and it is "REPEL 100% DEET" (although actually 98%) I took a long hike through deer tick country with it and only picked one off. Bottle looks pretty sturdy, have you given this product a look?

[Doczilla]

The 100% DEET can be fairly irritating to the skin. Short of sustained-release preparations, it's not any more efficacious than 26%, which is present in Deep Woods Off and other brands. Save the irritation, get the 26%.

'zilla

[NightLandNav]

+1 Doczilla on effective concentreations.

The chemical formula for DEET is N,N-diethyl-3-methyl-benzamide (N,N-dimethyl-m-toluamide).

DEET was patented by the U.S. Army in 1946 for use in areas with heavy biting insect infestation. It is a broad-spectrum repellent that is effective against mosquitoes, flies, fleas, chiggers, and ticks.

DEET is absorbed through the skin, it is advised to use as low a concentration and as small an amount as is necessary to be effective. Up to a certain point, protection against insects increases with higher (26%-32%) DEET concentration, but protection increases beyond that point level off regardless of the increase in DEET concentration.

DEET is toxic and potentially fatal if ingested, care should be taken to avoid applying repellent directly to lips, or to hands while preparing and eating food.

DEET should not be applied to areas with open cuts, sores or around the eyes, permanent eye damage can result from direct contact. High concentrations or long-term exposure to lower concentrations of DEET has potential risk to cause neurological damage.

DEET is a plasticizer, meaning the chemical reacts aggressively with many synthetic compounds such as plastics, coatings, materials such as nylon and acetate.

98% DEET doesn't work 60% better than 26% DEET at repelling insects, but it does at melting plastic.

[Forestboy]

You can also spray your clothing with permethrin prior to the trip.

[GPC]

I use skin so soft works great here in the white mountains.

[Doczilla]

I use skin so soft works great here in the white mountains.

I wouldn't recommend this for serious mosquito protection. It does have some protective effect, but that has been shown to be short lived (20 minutes or so). There are a few things out there, but nothing is as cheap and solidly reliable and widely tested as DEET.

It could be that bloodsuckers find you naturally repulsive, and that's a good thing. ;)

I agree with the recommendation for permethrin on the clothes. Be sure to apply and let it dry before you wear them.

'zilla

[GPC]

:D I wouldn't recommend this for serious mosquito protection. It does have some protective effect, but that has been shown to be short lived (20 minutes or so). There are a few things out there, but nothing is as cheap and solidly reliable and widely tested as DEET.

It could be that bloodsuckers find you naturally repulsive, and that's a good thing. ;)

I agree with the recommendation for permethrin on the clothes. Be sure to apply and let it dry before you wear them.

'zilla
Thats why I can't get a date thanks Doczilla.

[chuterigger]

98% DEET doesn't work 60% better than 26% DEET at repelling insects, but it does at melting plastic.

Do they make pump bottles of the lower concentration stuff? All I've seen is 100%

A spray can just takes up to much space.

"common sense" woud tell one that since the bottle is smaller you need higher concentration, so thats why my dumbass bought into 100%:rolleyes:

Thanks for schooling me doc.

[Doczilla]

I have a small one of 26%. I think I got it in the "trial size" or travel section at Target or WalMart, but I don't remember.

'zilla

[Longrifle]

Go to your local pharmacy and get some powdered sulfur. Use it liberally on your food for 3 - 4 days prior to camping.

Did that prior to every FTX while I was in, and I never had a tick, chigger, or mosquito bite even when others got eaten up. Still use it today if I'm going stalk hunting for deer or camping.

The only thing it will do is cause yellow sweat stains which will come out in the wash.

[NightLandNav]

Go to your local pharmacy and get some powdered sulfur. Use it liberally on your food for 3 - 4 days prior to camping.

Did that prior to every FTX while I was in, and I never had a tick, chigger, or mosquito bite even when others got eaten up. Still use it today if I'm going stalk hunting for deer or camping.

The only thing it will do is cause yellow sweat stains which will come out in the wash.

At last, someone who has done it and can testify first hand. As with many here, I have heard it, and I could testify that it worked based on my confidence in the credibility of the source, but this is good to know first hand from you. And I didn't know about the yellow stains.

One Q: Is Dental Enamel affected at all, stain wise? Thanks.

chuterigger- Dilute it with ISP Alcohol, the two will not react. And then put it back in the same bottle. Keep the mix in a glass jar out of sunlight, you'll be GTG.

[chuterigger]

NightLandNav,

Thanks for the tip, my dumbass was thinking mix w/water:D

Longrifle,

I second LandNav's sulfer/enamel question.

Has anyone noticed a smell from the sulfer?

[Ole crusty bastard]

Not product related, but the more you can cover up the better off you'll be.

[NightLandNav]

NightLandNav,

Thanks for the tip, my dumbass was thinking mix w/water:D



I second LandNav's sulfer/enamel question.

I've mixed DEET with ISPA and sunscreen lotion, so I know it works. Lotion is thick enough to suspend DEET as long as you don't use too much. Otherwise, it might start looking like cottage cheese. :D

[Ergogirl]

Dilute it with ISP Alcohol, the two will not react. And then put it back in the same bottle. Keep the mix in a glass jar out of sunlight, you'll be GTG.

I actually tried something similar about a month ago only to find that insect repellent bottles are manufactured such that you cannot remove the nozzle.

NLN, how were you able to mix with lotion? Did you just cut off the neck of the bottle?

[NightLandNav]

I actually tried something similar about a month ago only to find that insect repellent bottles are manufactured such that you cannot remove the nozzle.

NLN, how were you able to mix with lotion? Did you just cut off the neck of the bottle?

I was waiting for someone to ask that...put the lotion in your hand and spray a little on the lotion, you know the rest. And it's way easier than opening the top of the can/bottle. (They don't won't you to open a bottle of that much 100% DEET.)

You can empty metal pump spray bottles through the hole in the top once the cap/pump assembly is removed (and yes, in a vise at a muffler shop...between a hammer and a high rpm rotary tool, everything comes off...without spilling).

Once the DEET is diluted it won't eat through a commercial pump sprayer used by cleaning ladies at hotels before you use all the solution over the weekend. In fact there was a little left, and it sat for months without melting the bottom of the bottle out. I think I remember the pump not working...but hell half of the pump sprayers I ever go to use don't fuckingworkforshit either no mater what's in them.

This is all just "in a pinch" adaptation to dilute 100% DEET for use on yourself and people you care about. After that, I had a can of 29% DEET in each vehicle, pack and duffel bag. Which in fact has since proven to have been a good idea.

Aerosol cans are of course under pressure and not to be fucked with...unless you are wearing eye protection. :D

[Don-S]

Ok so I bought the Deep Woods OFF! Sportsman pump bottle that is 98.11% DEET going to try that. Tommorow I am going to pick up a tube of 3M's Ultrathon supposedly it lasts as long as the 98% oFF! due to extended realease but it has lower amounts of DEET around 35% (Supposedly made for the military... any you guys used this?). When I get some Dirt Time I will let you know which works better. If they both end up working the same I will probably go with the ultrathon because I like a cream better and Its not going to be as hazordous to my nice gear :).... as far as high amounts of DEET being good bad etc... I dont care I would rather risk it than have west nile ,malaria etc and having a kid with a third eye would be cool.

But looks like these are the two front runners for now and I will keep you guys updated.

[Longrifle]

One Q: Is Dental Enamel affected at all, stain wise? Thanks.

Not that I ever noticed. The only down side is some folks get that 'rotten egg' smelling fart thing going from hydrogen sulfide produced in their guts. But hey, we all smelled bad after a while in the field anyway.:D

[willowfield63]

Go to your local pharmacy and get some powdered sulfur. Use it liberally on your food for 3 - 4 days prior to camping.

Did that prior to every FTX while I was in, and I never had a tick, chigger, or mosquito bite even when others got eaten up. Still use it today if I'm going stalk hunting for deer or camping.

The only thing it will do is cause yellow sweat stains which will come out in the wash.

I havent used "flowers of sulphur" powder on myself, but DO use it regularly, to put in my horses and dogs food during the tick/lice/fly season... it works wonders for keeping biting insects at bay for them. I use it at the rate of 1 to 3 tablespoons daily in the horse feed, and 1 teaspoon daily in the dogs food.

It does stop them from getting ticks, lice and the flies from biting. If they do get external lice, you can rub the powder directly into the hair and skin. It causes the lice etc to depart, so should imagine that it would work similarly for humans.

As for smell, not sure abt humans, nil for the horses, but when the dogs "break wind", it "huckers",.. stinks like rotten eggs...so bear that in mind, when tent sharing with your "best mate".

Citronella spray, as an alternative to Deet, works well for flies and mosquitos, is a natural pyretherene, and doesnt have the harsh skin effects that Deet does...works well on animals and humans..but wont kill lice or ticks.

[NightLandNav]

Not that I ever noticed. The only down side is some folks get that 'rotten egg' smelling fart thing going from hydrogen sulfide produced in their guts. But hey, we all smelled bad after a while in the field anyway.:D

Roger that LR, Thank You. I'm GTG. In fact...

As long as the enamel of the teeth were not affected by discolouration...the hydrogen sulfide would be a minor gastrointestinal issue. Due to the nitrogen and sulfur content within the compound gas....

There ain't a bug with wings that would get within 5m of the chemical barrier I would be laying down, consistently and effectively. By the third day, a bear wouldn't attack my ass...or the rest.

When I get home, two or three hours in the pool with a box of Borax and horse brush, and I'll be ready to take a shower.

Without a bug bite from head to toe.

[chuterigger]

Funny shit NLN:D

I too am going to try this, I hope I get used to my smell.

Imagine the wife's suprise when I cropdust with this stuff!

[Carl Spackler]

I use skin so soft works great here in the white mountains.

Yep. Works awesome on the Alaska no see ums.

[NightLandNav]

x2 SkinSoSoft for Chiggers and Noseeums.

They used to sell Skin so Soft out of the back of POV's at XXXXXXXXXX to XXXXXXXX at XXXX during XXXXX X and XXXXXX XXXXX. (Some here must remember when that little cottage industry was going on.)

It worked great against chiggers and noseeums. DEET wasn't as practical as SSS, and noseeums were still getting me even with the DEET once the sweat started to roll.

[Whitebean54]

Go to your local pharmacy and get some powdered sulfur. Use it liberally on your food for 3 - 4 days prior to camping.

Did that prior to every FTX while I was in, and I never had a tick, chigger, or mosquito bite even when others got eaten up. Still use it today if I'm going stalk hunting for deer or camping.

The only thing it will do is cause yellow sweat stains which will come out in the wash.


I've heard that eating match heads(the ones in MRE's) works to keep the skeeters away. Is this the same principal?

[Longrifle]

I've heard of eating match heads, but since I don't know every compound and element contained therein I will not vouch for any effectiveness. Might actually be harmful. It probably had something to do with sulfur, though.

Powdered (or flowers of) sulfur, USP grade, is pure sulfur. No harmful dyes, preservatives, or carcinogens, and PETA won't be on yer ass for smashing skeeters, either.:D

[chuterigger]

Powdered (or flowers of) sulfur, USP grade, is pure sulfur. No harmful dyes, preservatives, or carcinogens, and PETA won't be on yer ass for smashing skeeters, either.:D

Longrifle,

Is their any guidelines as to how much to use? Maximum daily allowence?

How much do you have the best luck with?

Thanks,

[Forestboy]

Eating a section of a clove of garlic per day is also supposed to repel the bugs.

[Carl Spackler]

Eating a section of a clove of garlic per day is also supposed to repel the bugs.

And the female species of any mammalian category:p

[NightLandNav]

Don't eat match heads.

[Longrifle]

Longrifle,

Is their any guidelines as to how much to use? Maximum daily allowence?

How much do you have the best luck with?

Thanks,
I use about one tablespoon per meal for 3 - 4 days prior. Mix well with food. The dust is NOT good to inhale. Some get diarrhea from ingesting sulfur, but it hasn't affected me that way.

I would not take too much of it, though. It's not meant to be a food.

[Whitebean54]

Don't eat match heads.


Roger sir....I'm a fan of DEET but you know how cadets can be sometimes...."I heard from a friend whose bother knows a guy that roomed with a dude that is in CAG and those guys said matches are a good skeeter repellent so, lets get some lighters...YEA great idea!!!"

Excuse me while I go collect my money:D

[Old_Starlight]

Not product related, but the more you can cover up the better off you'll be.


Best thing I've heard in ages. In the Aussie Army, we were taught and subsequently passed this on that the first and most important thing was to cover up...sleeves down and buttoned up...trousers bloused etc.

Seems common sense, but then you apply less chemical repellent, less exposure to potentially toxic chemicals and so it goes.

DEET is good after you put some clothes on ;)

Cheers,

AJ

[Rock1503]

Update on both DEET and possible alternatives. It sounds like using the 26% may not only be just as effective, but safer as well. The second article mentions a "natural" alternative, but doesn't seem to have any science on its possible effects other than that of an effective repellent.


"http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/08/04/Research-DEET-neurotoxic-to-bugs-animals/UPI-31551249431113/"

MONTPELLIER, France, Aug. 4 (UPI) -- DEET, the active ingredient in many insect repellents, has been found to be neurotoxic in insects and mammals, French researchers reported Tuesday.

Because of their finding, researchers are saying more investigations are needed quickly to either confirm or dismiss potential neurotoxicity to humans, the researchers said in a news release.

"We've found that DEET is not simply a behavior-modifying chemical but also inhibits the activity of a key central nervous system enzyme, acetycholinesterase, in both insects and mammals," said Vincent Corbel of the Institute de Recherche pour le Development in Montpellier, France, who co-led a team of researchers investigating the toxicity of DEET, or N,N-Diethyl-3-methylbenzamide.

In a number of experiments, Corbel and his colleagues found DEET inhibits the acetylcholinesterase enzyme as did two other insecticide.

"These findings question the safety of DEET, particularly in combination with other chemicals, and they highlight the importance of a multidisciplinary approach to the development of safer insect repellents for use in public health," Corbel said.

Their findings were published in the open-access journal BMC Biology.



http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2009/02/09/Natural-alternative-to-DEET-effective/UPI-86341234237730/

BELTSVILLE, Md., Feb. 9 (UPI) -- A compound of the Tauroniro tree in South America has been found to be effective in deterring mosquitoes from biting and to repel ticks, researchers said.

The study, published in the Journal of Medical Entomology found that isolongifolenone deters the biting of the mosquitoes -- known spreaders of diseases such as malaria, West Nile virus and Lyme disease -- more effectively than the widely used synthetic chemical repellent N,N-diethyl-3-methyl benzamide, known as DEET. It also repelled blacklegged ticks and lone star ticks as effectively as DEET.

Aijun Zhang said derivatives of isolongifolenone have been widely and safely used as fragrances in cosmetics, perfumes, deodorants and paper products, but new processing methods may make it as cheap to produce as DEET.

Since "isolongifolenone is easily synthesized from inexpensive turpentine oil feedstock, we are therefore confident that the compound has significant potential as an inexpensive and safe repellent for protection of large human populations against blood-feeding arthropods," the study authors said in a statement.

[Greenhat]

1000mg B1 daily for 3 days prior and then while in the woods. Worked for me in Panama, Alaska, Thailand, and all through the USA.

What happens is that your body sweats out the excess (it's water soluable) and creates a smell that mosquitos don't seem to like (I can't smell it myself). Perspiration seems a bit oily.

[RGR.Montcalm]

I've done the sulphur and aside from some really foul gaseous emissions, it works great.

I do make sure I brush my teeth to avoid sulfur issues ...

[The91Bravo]

We went to montana last month and we ran the gaunlet of OTC sprays.

The Repel and Off were comparitively the same, and then I bought that new thingy off has that clips on your belt. looks like a little fan. GREAT CONCEPT shitty execution.

It only works where the wind is 0, I say again ZERO. Not really al that a common occurrance outside. even a light breeze causes it to diminish too fast to repel the bugs.

So, stick with the sprays. And I am going to try the B1 prophylactic method next time.


As for ticks. At Campbell and Chaffee I ate my match heads from my MREs. NEVER ever had one tick on my balls. So that worked for me. But then again after 42 days in the field no life form would dare go there...

[Rock1503]

Glad to see folks are running with more and better things to keep insects off of us!:biggrin: Now if it only works on ticks, chiggers, etc...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/deetstreet/

WASHINGTON, D.C. — A chemical that resembles natural products from black pepper can deter mosquitoes four times longer than DEET, the world’s most widely used bug repellent.

The new substance could be used to protect people who live in the developing world, or to shield soldiers from insects when they deploy to countries with pest problems.

“Our goal is to reduce disease transmission,” said USDA synthetic chemist Maia Tsikolia, here at the American Chemical Society meeting. “It’s very important for the American military, actually for mankind, to have effective repellents.”

Malaria, dengue fever, West Nile Virus and yellow fever are among the many diseases carried by mosquitoes. Find a better way to keep the insects at bay, and the world will have far fewer public health problems.

The announcement of these potential new repellents comes on the heels of news earlier this month from a team of French researchers that reported DEET affects cells in a manner similar to nerve gas, and enhances the toxic effects of a common pesticide. The study was preliminary and was conducted on unprotected cells in petri dishes, so it may not be relevant for humans. But it became fodder for dozens of cautionary headlines leaving the public looking for alternatives.

Tsikolia explained that several chemicals known as N-Acylpiperidines can keep mosquitoes at bay far longer than the gold standard ingredient of bug sprays, a substance called DEET. The substance that gives black pepper its bite is also an N-Acylpiperidines, but Tsikolia says that the new repellents do not share its peppery aroma.

Her team used a computer program to find 2,000 chemicals that might repel mosquitoes. The scientists went on to make 23 of those compounds in their laboratory and evaluated their ability to repel a common type of mosquito.

For one of the tests, brave volunteers dabbed a bit of the substance on a cloth attached to their arms, and then stick them into a cage filled with 500 mosquitoes.

The best compound made by Tsikolia and her team provided the volunteers with protection for an average of 73 days, whereas DEET only worked for 17 days.

Despite that triumph, the new chemicals are not ready to be bottled up and sold at your local REI store. DEET has proven itself effective at repelling a wide variety of pests. So far, the USDA team has only tested its brew on one type of mosquito, but they are itching to know whether it will work on the rest of them.

Image: To test the repellent, a volunteer exposes part of his arm in a cage filled with 500 healthy mosquitoes. Courtesy of the USDA.

Citation: Vincent Corbel et al. Evidence for inhibition of cholinesterases in insect and mammalian nervous systems by the insect repellent deet, BMC Biology, August 5, 2009

[BrooklynBen]

+1 skinsosoft

Tried everything and finally found that bathing myself and clothes in camp smoke really helped. If no fires available (any kind will do) I smoke one or two cigars and bath myself in their smoke. This has worked better than deet for me. Besides, its a good excuse for having good cigars handy.

[bmbsqd]

I'm camping 3 days in the TX hill country and I need a good insect repellent. From what I have been reading sounds like Deep Woods OFF sportsman pump with the 98% DEET is the strongest? but I have been reading that it melts plastics (sounds like its hard on gear?) anyone else heard this? I also heard the bottle falls apart in pack... :(

Anyone have experience with this that can recommend it or another product?

Thermacell. Never spray that shit on yourself or your kids again! THERMACELL!