New Update (this should get a heated debate)

[FLTCREW1]

What the hell is going on with this "Domestic Violence", talk about one sided.Just spent 8 hours in class just on that. What I got out of it was this....

"Ma'am, Did he think about assaulting you or maybe had a dream of putting you in fear?"

"Yes officer, I think It scared me"

"Sorry Bud, you have to go to jail"

NSDQ

[wolfhound227]

Well first off,assault and battery is assault
and battery.If you see it,or evidence of it then you do your job.
That said,most of the local cops here are divided into two groups:The ones who think that most of the required procedures are a waste of time and the ones who think most of the required procedures are a COMPLETE waste of time.
I don't know any police officer who likes to be second guessed and I don't know any police officer who likes to roll on a domestic call because they are the most dangerous.In California,if the officer observes evidence of physical abuse ,ie,welts,bruises,blood and so on he can arrest the second party without the first
party desiring to press charges.Boom,of he goes.The state will prosecute on it's own,based on the testimony of the arresting officer.This keeps the woman from changing her mind after a week when the bills start coming in or she's just weak.This is a good thing.
The bad thing is that this law can be abused
by women looking to get out of a relationship
or marrage and, since California is a community property state,an arrest for spousal abuse looks real bad when you're divying up assets.
There should be some interesting stories on this thread,I'll bet...

[mdb23]

Welcome to the wonderful world of LE.

Firstly, I agree with wolfhound, if evidence of an assault is present, then there is no excuse for not doing your job. However, your summarization of the DV laws in many states is dead on. Basically, if a party states that an offense occured, then someone is SUPPOSED to go to jail. And we're not just talking about assaults here--wait until you get introduced to the laws regarding DV property damage, ex parte violations, custody orders, etc...You can kind of imagine why many cops who get dispatched to a DV call respond with a resounding, "SH*T!"

What is really frustrating is the fact that many people on the street know the system as well, or better, than you will. For example:

"Officer, my husband cheated on me and I want him out of the house."

"Sorry, being a cheating bastard is not a crime, and I can't make him leave, regardless of how pissed you are."

"Well, ummmmm, he hit me. Arrest him!!!"

"Why didn't you mention that earlier?"

"I just remembered."

"<sigh>"


And just think, you volunteered for this "stuff."


Stay safe out there,
mdb23




[This message has been edited by mdb23 (edited 09-02-2000).]

[Erick]

Gee, I'll bite...

here in the PRC, when law & policy was changed to 'shall' arrest based on any injury, seen or claimed, you should've seen the Internal Affairs investigations sky-rocket. You ask why?

Simple, for years we'd gone to D/V situations where the FEMALE had assaulted the MALE. The victims absolutely refused to press charges or make statements.

But now we're under the "Shall" arrest law / policy, guess what happens? Yup! Women started going to jail for Co-Habitant Abuse, a felony.

Problem #1 - The District Attorneys wouldn't file any of these cases;
Problem #2- Instant IA complaints made by the SUSPECT's and the Womens Rights groups - false arrest, etc. We refer to these groups under the umbrella of WHAM - Women Hating All Men.

If you got a DV call of any type, figure you were / are off the road for at least four hours. Chronological reports? No way, had to write the report to follow the order of the check boxes on the DV form - if not it was kicked back. My gang unit partner & I got stuck handling one of these - we weren't fast enough responding to a shooting - and spent 6 hours each the next day writing it.

As Wolfhound mentioned, plenty of abuse by females who knew the system.

[FLTCREW1]

Originally posted by mdb23:
[B]Welcome to the wonderful world of LE.

wait until you get introduced to the laws regarding DV property damage, ex parte violations, custody orders, etc...
B]

Yep, got that part too.
It's when you get into the "conditions of release" and then after the "court date" that I was referring to. I just see the big "he/she pissed me off so I'll screw him/her" factor comming into play.

Don't get the wrong impression, I will be the first to agree that violence is a CHOICE, and to protect the victim (even if they don't want you to) is both morally and professionally the correct thing to do.
It just left an odd taste in my mouth so to speak.

NSDQ

[jcollettusa]

What makes this even more sad is that women actually commit more DV than the males, but how many males are going to say that "my wife has beaten me officer, please arrest her?" Of Course they are not going to say anything, machismo sets in and the truth disappears. Then of course, you are going to be called out to this same house a couple of times until the women finally pushes the right buttons and causes the man to use violence. Not that I am condoning this behavior, because I am not, but some of these "so called" women are not women in my book.


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Semper Fi

[RECON5]

I have worked it from the street angle, and spent time in CID - Assault Family Violence Unit. This topic always screams LIABILITY no matter which side of the fence you fall on.

Story - Readers Digest Version....
Rec'd radio call for D/V, woman being held hostage by husband. Upon arrival the woman is on the sidewalk in front of the neighbors house tied up with phone cord. Secure the scene, untie lady, clearly visible injury from assault. Woman claims unknown if husband still inside, child is at Grandparents. Woman wants to get her stuff and car and leave. Check residence (no keys to house on woman)undetermined if man still inside. Patrol Sgt. refused to allow officers to make entry (had permission from woman) not enough to call Swat to force entry bla bla bla. Family comes to pickup woman "We will never let her come back...I will never come back to this house he will kill me". 2 weeks later man arrested in Houston, makes bond, kills woman and shoots child (child recovers)grand parents, who said "We will never let her come back to this house" attempt to file civil action against me and dept. - Result dropped suit, the only thing that saved my butt was the explicit detail in my offense report and the fact that all the steps were followed 1 2 3. I went out of my way to take the time to make sure this woman was safe and tried to get her belongings for her. I took extra steps to help the family in making sure they had access to counselors, or shelters ect. They came after the dept and myself like we never showed up..out of guilt for not taking accurate advice I suspect, but never the less they came back on us.

No matter how you feel about D/V, like the other post suggest....do your job and do it like your pension counts on it because it could. Not only is it one of the most dangerous calls or scenes you can work, it contains as much civil liability as any other.

"You both say the other assaulted you...you both go to jail, my job is done, and the prosecutors can figure it out." -

[BG]

Trouble is out here, most Officer's avoid calls for DV, preferring to stay clear of them. What with our new Domestic Violence Act, as a response unit, the call outs are often left for complaint units to open the dockets and do the time consuming paperwork etc. (bear in mind our area of coverage is huge, with a limited number of response vehicles - both Flying Squad and Highway Patrol) Additionally, if the situation is not handled 100% correctly, there has been the threat that OFFICER'S may be convicted and given up to 3-months imprisonment. Go figure on that BS! As for the rest of it, eveything applies as mentioned by wolfhound.

[J-Dog]

"I understand why you hit her, but I can not condone it."


jw

[Linus]

Another problem with all this is that there IS for a fact a difference in the us eof violence between the sexes. Women TEND (this is extremely generalized)to use violence to achieve some sort of physical contact and thereby "connecting" with the other part where men in a much higher degree are prone to use violence with the intention to acive physical harm or even injury. Given the normal difference in BMI between males and females we are also more or less dispositioned for the one form or the other, based on gender.

What I'm trying to say here is that if your lady starts flailing her arms at you she generally presents little or no danger to the average male but he might respond with giving her a rapid facelift nevertheless. She end up in the hospital draining her eyesockets from blood for using a stupid way to gain her husband/boyfriend's attention.

Even if we turn this situation upside-down any male just flailing his arms in the old windmill fashion is liable to end up with a badly bruised Baby while the female who really puts her hip into it trying to punch out the lights on Daddy might achieve little more than a nosebleed.

Seeing it from this perspective there is at least SOME justification to being more vigilant towards the one kind of DV than the other. I hope I get my point across here: While no form of DV can be tolerated or condoned (or ANY form of unjustified violence for all it matters) there is reason to be more strict in some cases and on the other hand, if we sould slap anyone who ever laid hands on us with a Complaint-ticket my neice would be required to make Court Appearance every week for banging her fist on my thigh and caling me "fatty" for not bying her a present! Men assaulting women is generally more serious than the other way around, as I see it.

Perhaps this is more of a question for the judges and attorneys, though? And perhaps I'm just saying the same thing everybody else has: The laws pertaining to all this is not entirely in line with reallity.

(Am I going to get a ton of shit on me?)

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Honestas supra omnis

[wolfhound227]

Man,I gotta move to Sweden.
Linus,sounds like you live in a realy nice place.Out here in sunny California the ladies can have;lets just say,more of an edge
on them.Last year our little corner of the world made history after surgeons successfuly
re-attached his PENIS.How did he happen to loose it?His girlfriend thought he was cheating on him(or found out he was cheating on him.I did'nt pay much attention,they were such a looovleeey coulple).A few years ago an
arguement ended with the little lady hitting
her husband in the head with a hammer.They were both in their 70s.I could go on...
You're right,Linus,in general the man is bigger and meaner and does more damage.That's
what these laws are for.However on this side of the Atlantic ugliness is equal-opportunity.

p.s.
One of our most dangerous homeless types is a female.The last time she was arrested for trying to grab the gun from the holster of the arresting officer.Since she's mentaly deranged(or something) she only got nine months.She now splits her time between Santa Cruz and the Monterey Penninsula.
Just goes to show,you never know who you're talking to.

[Sharky]

Like I said Rotorhead, get Professional Liability Insurance. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. On a lighter note, Like da man said, welcome to the world of LE. Remember what I told you on the phone about only being a cop about 20% of the time. The other 80% we are marriage counselors, psychiatrists, EMT's, Stand-in fathers, priests, lawyers, public relations experts, assholes etc.... A cop told me one time, "ya know it's strange. I'm a sonofabitch till they need me, then, when I get there and solve their worst problems, I am great. But, before I can get out of the driveway as I'm leaving, I'm a sonofabitch again. Weird huh?" I laughed my ass off. As for the DV stuff. My rule was that if I showed up at your house on a DV call, you both are going to spend the night in jail. No questions asked. Once I adopted this policy all my repeat callers suddenly decided that maybe marriage counseling was better than calling 911. The judges loved me for it. Give me a call sometime rotorhead.

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F.I.D.O.

[Linus]

Well, Wolfhound!

You're certainly more than welcome anytime. Just don't make yourself any illusions concerning the meekness of scandinavian women. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

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Honestas supra omnis