Actual WWII Glider Re-Enactment in 2009

[BKK]

I recieved this from a guy I have trained with, and who is involved with the vintage aviation scene. It sounds like he has an awesome plan in the works.


This is probably the very last opportunity to pay a fitting tribute to the allied glider pilots that flew tube, fabric and wood gliders into combat. These valiant men performed their duties courageously, suffered huge casualties but have received little recognition for their heroic service. They are a vanishing breed. There will be no future generations of American or British glider pilots in combat.


“It’s like flying a stick of dynamite through the gates of hell” American Glider Pilot in WW II.


The Project – DreamFlight has committed to commemorating the efforts and sacrifices of the WW II Glider Pilots by preparing a WACO CG-4A glider to flyable condition and appearing at the 65th Anniversary of D-Day, 2009. We will ship the CG-4A to England where it will be assembled and flown to Normandy for a landing at one of the LZ’s that were used on D-Day, 1944. Following that event, we will probably appear in Holland for the commemoration ceremonies of Operation Market Garden with a landing by the CG-4A.


Upon completion of our appearances in Europe in 2009, we will fly the C-47 ‘tug’ back to the U.S.A. for, hopefully, appearances at several air shows here to complete the year.


In 2010 we will take the glider to the home air fields (or appropriate nearby air field) of those museums and cities who have contributed to this project for an actual flight presentation of the CG-4A. We will also appear at several major air shows nationwide.



You can imagine the huge crowds that will gather to see the C-47 and Waco CG-4A combination at select air shows! DreamFlight will amaze the audiences with a glider tow launch, flight and landing right in front of the crowd! We hope to conduct a glider “snatch”, where the Waco glider is pulled from a standing stop to 120 mph in only 7 seconds! - re-creating the glider recovery so successfully used during the war.



We expect that this undertaking will receive a huge amount of publicity both in Europe and the United States. The project will bring recognition and commemoration to men of the Glider Corps who have, quite frankly, not received it in the past. It will bring a great deal of attention and interest to the museums which have WACO Glider displays.



Here is some of what we expect to happen and accomplish:



Ø Appearance at Normandy and probably Operation Market Garden - Holland

Ø Appearances at air shows in England and the U.S.A. – 2009

Ø Flying appearances at ‘home’ air fields of WACO Glider Museums and Municipalities who support our project - 2010

Ø Webinar and tele-seminar interviews with glider and ‘tug’ pilots, troops and support personnel. These will be preserved for future generations to remember.

Ø ‘Local’ appearances by Glider Corps personnel at air shows and aviation related events to ‘tell the story’ and provide pilot, crew and troop recognition

Ø Preparation of DVD / CD’s of the story of our on-going ‘A Living Tribute’ Project

Ø Contributions and financial aid to participating museums / organizations

Ø Specific listing of and links to web sites of all contributors (museums, businesses, groups, etc.) on all of our web site(s).



YOU can be a part of this tribute. So many have given so much, we invite you to help in this one last opportunity to show our appreciation for their efforts !



We would like to invite you to participate with us in this fascinating project. You can become a part of our success by helping with parts acquisition, funding requests, referrals to media and many other needs that we will have. As a contributor to our success you will receive recognition in our public and media presentations. We also expect that there will be some financial return to the contributing museums as our fund raising gets into full swing.

[Greenhat]

There is more than a fair chance that the glider will not be recoverable after a landing. I'd say these guys are being very optomistic.

[triumph]

Greenhat,

I totally agree, but it sure would be neat to see it flown one last time in France!

[BKK]

Those gliders were not built to be one time use only. If you read up on some of the training that was done prior to D-Day. They did lots of flights to get prepared. Especially the Brits who took Pegusus bridge.

I am sure they are not going to be launching with a Jeep in the back, or loaded to the gills with men and gear. They also won't be landing at night in fields with obstacles.

I am sure they will also be able to use some modern parts in the construction to enhance durability. These guys are not aviation amateurs. I am sure they got it figured out.

[triumph]

BKK,

Thanks for the info. I was just reading an article the other day about the many inaccuracies about glider pilots/planes written in D-day books by authors to include Ambrose and others. This guy was the historian for the Army glider pilots, I'll see if I can find the link.

[Trip_Wire]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

[RGR.Montcalm]

I'm guessing that there will be demos at Fort Campbell and Bragg? Campbell has a glider in the Pratt museum and the Airborne Special Ops museum in fort Bragg ahs one too...

[RetPara]

There is more than a fair chance that the glider will not be recoverable after a landing. I'd say these guys are being very optomistic.


Just because the glider that you tested at the WACO factory could not be used again, does not mean that these will no be reusable.

[NightLandNav]

You can't help but commend their dedication and admire their cause. Since they are not "aviation amateurs", one would think they should be well prepared by "D-Day", and have the glider sufficiently rebuilt and reinforced.

It is true, with only one aircraft, there is little room for error. I certainly hope for their great success.

[BKK]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

Trip Wire,
You should see if you can get another ride since you have the wings. You are probably due your re-fresher training:D

[Hopeless Civilian]

I think my dad would love to see this, if he was still around.

Company A 1st Bn 187th Airborne Glider Regiment 11th Airborne Division.

[0699]

Are they building a replica glider? Or are they reconditioning an actual Waco into flying condition? It seems like a "real" Waco would be WAY to valuable to risk getting destroyed...

[0699]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

Damn. I was -20. My mom wasn't even born yet...

I need to come visit you next time I'm in Seattle. You've got to have better stories than my in-laws. :D

[BKK]

Are they building a replica glider? Or are they reconditioning an actual Waco into flying condition? It seems like a "real" Waco would be WAY to valuable to risk getting destroyed...

I am assuming they are building a brand new one to spec. Nobody wants to fly in anything remotely dodgey, and wood that old would be suspect to all sorts of unsuitable weaknesses. I am sure they have all the plans to fabricate a new one. When I get an update on progress I will post it.

Just as some glider triva. The C-123 Provider was actually first designed as a glider, but the AF did not have anything big enough to tow it, so they put engines on it.
http://www.suchoj.com/andere/C-123/images/C-123_04.jpg

[RGR.Montcalm]

I am assuming they are building a brand new one to spec. Nobody wants to fly in anything remotely dodgey, and wood that old would be suspect to all sorts of unsuitable weaknesses. I am sure they have all the plans to fabricate a new one. When I get an update on progress I will post it.

Just as some glider triva. The C-123 Provider was actually first designed as a glider, but the AF did not have anything big enough to tow it, so they put engines on it.
http://www.suchoj.com/andere/C-123/images/C-123_04.jpg


That was my first jump in '77! Except the port side engine 'supposedly' caught fire and we mass exited...

I can remember it headed to Lawson AAF streaming black smoke, but it could have been exhaust. I AM glad the jumpmasters decided not make us do a racetrack for a second pass- they jumped too!

[Trip_Wire]

Trip Wire,
You should see if you can get another ride since you have the wings. You are probably due your re-fresher training:D

Erm... No thanks!

[BKK]

Update

As you are aware, we at DreamFlight have committed to bringing back to ‘life’ a flyable WACO CG-4A glider – the one that flew so many courageous troops in the conflicts in WW II. DreamFlight will renew a CG-4A, take it to England and fly it to the 65th Anniversary of D-Day, Normandy in June, 2009 for the commemoration. We will also fly the glider to Holland in September, 2009 to commemorate the courageous actions of our troops at Operation Market-Garden.



For the past month and ½ I have traveled cross-country to meet with many, many people, groups and organizations that are interested in assisting to make our goal a reality. Everyone has been extremely excited and willing to help with the project. We now have obtained commitments for many parts for the CG-4A. I have just returned to S. CA with a 53’ long trailer loaded with these parts. I have at least one more trip to collect more committed parts.



This project is definitely in a committed GO MODE !!



Ours is truly a ‘community effort’ which will succeed with the efforts of many people. We will welcome EVERYONE to join with us to help in any way that you can to make this project the success that it deserves.



As you know, there is NO FLYING WACO CG-4A glider in existence (that we know of, at least). There are several in excellent condition in museums but none flying. Please go to our web site at www.esharethis.com , category: WW II Glider Corps to find see more about the CG-4A in general and, our program under item Glider Corps Program Letter which will tell about our project.



We would like to ask that you now commit to help make our program a success. We will ask that you donate money to the program. We will ask that if you have any of the following skills that you let us know what you can contribute:



Aircraft mechanical proficiency (including but not limited to A&P / IA);

Computer skills – we need to prepare an exciting web site;

Fund raising;

Visual / audio capability to record our re-build process and the trips / flights;

Writing skills (as you can see from this message we really need people with good writing

skills <g>;



The benefits of your assistance will be enormous !! You will be a specific part of an historic event(s) that has never been done since the 1940’s and, quite probably, will never be repeated. You will have the satisfaction of helping to make a part of our history – Aviation, Military, and manufacturing efforts brought back to public awareness for ours and subsequent generations.



We are supported by many individuals and organizations. In my next message I will send information about how you can make your financial donations to a charitable organization 501(c) 3 that is supporting our efforts. I will provide a way for your business or organization to gain a huge amount of publicity by joining with us.



Please PASS THIS MESSAGE ON TO YOUR FRIENDS so that they can learn more about this very important part of our history and our project.



As we progress, we will keep you up-dated with pictures as we acquire parts, re-build the CG-4A, fly it for the first time – and many times thereafter. Lots to enjoy. Today, go to

Trip Pictures to see some of the pictures of our first steps in the project.



We appreciate your friendship and look forward to having you join with us to make the WW II Glider Corps Project a huge success.

[CDRODA396]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

My hats off to you TW!!!! I always said that someone had to have an iron pair to get in one of them cloth and wire contraptions and strap in!!! That was one means of infil I would have had to pass on!!!:D

[Richman]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

Trip-

Got any pictures you want to show the rest of the class? :D

[BKK]

Some updated pics of work being done.

http://www.esharethis.com/content.asp?CatID=110&ContentID=3995

[Mrswildweasel]

I had the pleasure when I was doing home health care to be taking care of a WWII glider pilot. He actually told me some of what he had done before he passed away. It was an honor and privilege to take care of him.

[BKK]

I knew Art Lilley and his wife. He was a great guy. RIP

[Parajuevos]

I was awarded glider wings by the 11th Airborne in Japan in 1947. We flew in the WW II Waco models. I can't say that I enjoyed the ride. I'd much rather jump! ;)

I've always held you in high esteem because of your background and experience but now that I know that you actually qualified, in gliders, the mercury on my respect meter has just broken out of the top of the thermometer, as if it was sitting on an asphalt parking lot, on the hottest day of the year, in Phoenix, Arizona.

As an ex-Paratrooper, I have always said that I'd much rather be checking my canopy, after counting to four thousand, than crashing in an airplane, with no engines, on a rough landing field.

Those guys that landed in Normandy, Market Garden and other places have my utmost respect. Rommel Asparagus and only plywood, between them and the ground fire is a very rough way to come down. They didn't even get hazard pay, at the beginning of the war. What a joke. I think they picked it up later, though, if I'm not mistaken.

I knew an old WW2 Glider Pilot, named Tom Hart. He lived across the street from my parents. He told me that he wanted to be a pilot in the USAAF.He wasn't trained in bombers or fighters but did become a pilot, transporting soldiers and equipment, in a GLIDER. :D He made the landings in operations Overlord, in Normandy, Southern France, Market Garden, in Holland, and Varsity, in Germany. He has passed away, since I last spoke with him, in 1998, at my dad's funeral.

BKK, thanks for the post. In addition to the information, on the glider demos, seeing the C-123 brings back memories. That was the plane that I made my first five qualifying jumps from, at Ft. Benning, in November of 1963.

I was in the swing landing trainer the day we got the news about President Kennedy's assassination. I graduated on Nov. 29, 1963. Yeh, I know, Trip Wire, you were already a seasoned vet, when I was a snot nosed cherry jumper.

I remember one scared kid, my age, who had a green face, as we took off for our first qualifying jump. The jumpmaster, who looked like he was 100 years old but was probably about 35, started prancing around in front my fellow cherry and asking him, in a mockingly sympathetic way if "his tummy hurt." He then went into a profanity laced prognosis, describing the reasons for his nausea, while he stood in front of him, in the airplane, telling him that he was going to "streamer in." As he made these predictions, to the young cherry, he simulated taking a shit and vomiting into a burp bag,as we flew along towards Fryar DZ. After the kid puked, he had the privilege to be allowed to stuff the vomit down his shirt, in the used burp bag and jump with it.:D

Ah, the wonderful memories of those days and the caring mentors, who tutored us and gently guided us along the path to manhood. Damn, I miss those days and the kind Sergeants who made that path so pleasant.:D

[B 2/75]

BKK, I'm not sure that the 123 was actually designed as a glider....

Like alot of the guys here I made my first jumps in a 123, watching rivets turning in their fastenings as the short flight to Fryer DZ progressed. I'll never forget watching those engines turning over and over and over and finally firing up with a huge cloud of black smoke that quickly turned white, then gone.

Anyway, my father pushed a broom in the Chase Airplane Company's hangar floor in Trenton NJ as a summer job in somewhere around 50 - 52... I'd have to ask him. Anyway, the 123 was built there, and the 1st one was coming off the line that summer. He got to be on hand for the ceremonial roll-out. Senators and VIPs in abundance... they started to fire up the #1, it caught, then they started with the #2. About the time the starbord engine was begining to fire up, the port side caught fire for real. They shut it down, hosed it down, and rather unceremonially wheeled the beast back into the hanger instad of taking off for the guests. A rather inauspicious beginning, but I digress.

One of the many momentos I have from my father is an original print he got at the factory that summer. It is an offical factory print made for the Air Force, and it depicts two aircraft in flight: the X-123 and the X-123A. Keep in mind that this isn't a photo, but rather an artist's photo-realistic drawing.

The XC-123 went on to become the C-123. It's a good, solid bird.

The XC-123A never quite made it into service, as it is a 123 with 4 jet engines.

This attached picture, BTW, isn't the one I have at home. Very similar, and probably from the same artist / job, but this I found tonight on the net.

So, IMO, to say that this beast was originally intended to be a glider is just plain wrong. EDIT - The marvels of the net never cease to amaze me. Looks like the Provider was indeed originally a glider. Maybe better to say that the project was initially to build a glider. The 70,000 lb weight limit was way out of line, so it was redesigned as a pair of 40,000 lb airplanes, the XC-123/A.

But it makes me wonder... if the 123 was the biggest cargo bird of its day (it was) what in hell did they think was going to tow the damn thing? How much damn money got wasted on that flight of fancy, I wonder?

[BKK]

B 2/75

Of course all my information is just on things I have read. I think the key thing to remember is that the C-123 was orginally "Designed" to be a glider, but probably never flew as one.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/c-123.htm

C-123 Provider
Here was an altogether remarkable aircraft. The Chase Aircraft G-20 cargo glider evolved through stages into the C-123 Provider. This cargo aircraft began its career in 1949 when it was produced by Chase Aircraft as a heavy assault glider. From the G-20, Chase developed into the XC-123 in 1949 with a 67-troop capacity and the SC-123A in 1951. The first prototype XC-123 made its initial flight on October 14, 1949, powered by two 2,200 horsepower R2800-23 piston engines. A second prototype was built as the XG-20 glider. It was later flown as the XC-123A with four J-47 turbojet engines first flew April 21, 1951, as the first all-jet Air Force cargo transport.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=310

Development
Designed by the Chase Aircraft Co. just after World War II, the C-123 evolved from earlier large assault glider designs. The prototype XC-123, basically a glider powered by two piston engines, made its initial flight in 1949. A second prototype was built as the unpowered XG-20 glider. Chase began manufacturing the C-123B in 1953, but the contract was transferred to Fairchild, which built about 300 C-123Bs.

Between 1966 and 1969, 184 C-123Bs were converted to C-123Ks with the addition of two J85 jet engines. These jet engines increased the C-123's payload weight by a third, shortened its takeoff distance, improved its climb rate, and gave a much greater margin of safety should one of the piston engines fail.

[Mrswildweasel]

I knew Art Lilley and his wife. He was a great guy. RIP

We knew him from wheeling. Yeah he was a really good guy. He's missed.

[Ole crusty bastard]

...watching rivets turning in their fastenings.....

I thought that it was just the birds I was on that had loose and missing rivets:rolleyes:. Not to hi-jack, I remember my brother had a silver dollar sewn into/under the glider patch that was on his c--t cap. Is that tradition a thing of the past?

[Greenhat]

I thought that it was just the birds I was on that had loose and missing rivets:rolleyes:. Not to hi-jack, I remember my brother had a silver dollar sewn into/under the glider patch that was on his c--t cap. Is that tradition a thing of the past?


The cunt cap is a thing of the past... but sewing the silver dollar under the glider patch was still being done in the 80s, when the 101st was the only unit in the US Army still wearing it...

[Parajuevos]

I thought that it was just the birds I was on that had loose and missing rivets:rolleyes:. Not to hi-jack, I remember my brother had a silver dollar sewn into/under the glider patch that was on his c--t cap. Is that tradition a thing of the past?

I never heard of the silver dollar sewn under the glider patch and I wore that cap for a couple of years. In fact, I still have the cap with the glider patch.

Maybe sewing the silver dollar under the glider patch was a tradition with my predecessors.

[Greenhat]

Wonder if his brother served in a glider regiment? Maybe it was a tradition specific to the old glider regiments (I served in the 327th)?