Undecided

[RR6]

Prior service 11B - undecided about Civil Affairs or Military Intelligence. Any suggestions? I have an idea about Civil Affairs (read FM 41-10) - but I don't have any information about what 96B/35F (MI) would do attached to a Civil Affairs unit. So, once again, any suggestions? Thanks for your help!

[TPD1280]

Best bet would be to talk to the UA of your local CA unit and find out exactly what the job would entail at their unit.

[Baildog]

Well, in garrison, MI in a CA unit does mainly security clearances. :rolleyes:
You should also be doing a lot of country studies, but that will depend on how much initiative the unit has.
In all likelihood, they'll want you to go 38B anyway.

[Metalchica]

The "2" will work with security clearances for unit members and will conduct and collect mission debriefs. He will conduct research on the high side and provide classified country studies and maps. He will support the teams from an intel standpoint and liaise with "2" shops of the unit they are OPCON/TACON to.

He will likely be involved in research/reporting once an integrated CIM (Civil Information Management) solution is in place.

Doctrinally, FM 41-10 was replaced by the new FM 3-05.40, "Civil Affairs Operations" in September 2006. It includes small changes (five core tasks instead of six, etc.) and an introduction/inclusion of keyleader/SOI engagement, project management, civil reconnaissance, CIM, the civil information grid, yada yada yada.

Incidentally, the new version of JP 3-57, "Joint Doctrine for Civil Military Operations" (APR 2003) is in draft form, being re-written right now.

[Olive Drab]

What do you want to accomplish? What do you "think" CA does?

[RR6]

Sorry for taking so long to respond (Job) First off, I'd like to thank 'TPD1280', 'Baildog', 'Metalchica', and 'Olive Drab' for responding to my post. I've been in touch with the unit in question, and I'm waiting to visit the unit during a weekend drill. I understand the unit may want me to go CA instead of MI; but another question I have is: Do regular units allow their MI personnel go 'outside the wire' with CA patrols? Thanks 'Metalchica' for advising me of the new manuals, I'll try to get my hands on one. It sounds like you have an awful lot of experience; would you be able to tell me some stories? Finally, I have a friend assigned to this Civil Affairs unit, they're currently somewhere in Iraq - he's filled me in quite a bit about his past experiences with CA. But, no word about how MI in a Civil Affairs unit would be. So, please pass on more wisdom when you get a chance!!

[Olive Drab]

If you are MI in a CA unit you will be a 96B, All source MI in Headquarters, and will not be leaving the wire unless there is some rare case that they would need you to. This is due to the nature of your job. If you want to leave the wire as MI look into an MI unit that has HUMINT slots and get on a THT. I believe PSYOP units also have them organic but TPD can confirm that and what their role would be in that type of setting.

[TPD1280]

Same as in a CA unit. Head shed job.

If you want to do intelligence work, go MI.

If you want to do CA or PSYOP work, take one of those MOS's.

[Olive Drab]

Poor grammar on my part. I believe PSYOP units also have them organic I was referring to 97E in PSYOP, if there are in fact any.

[TPD1280]

Yes, each Company has a 97E slot. And it's a head shed slot.

Sometimes it is filled by an actual 97E, sometimes by a 37F.

[Metalchica]

As Baildog said they probably will want you to become CA-trained especially if their Intel shop is already filled. Manning is what will drive that decision ultimately.

To further expound on what OD & TPD said - The role of the 2 does not call for the him to generically go outside the wire unless he had specific business that would require him to do so. His primary job is to support the CA unit and the teams from a staff standpoint to keep them alive so they can accomplish the mission ("Route Tampa is black from CP35 to CP40" or "The PIR is white bongo truck with combination sheep and 3-4 military-aged males in the vicinity of MC12345678."

That being said, there was an MI officer in a CA unit who pissed off enough staffs (note the plural) that he was shifted around and eventually put in the position of a CAT-A team leader. There was another one who wanted to be a CAT-A team leader and even was a city planner on his civilian side (valuable civil affairs civilian skillset to bring to the table). Still he had integrity and he understood his role as the 2 and did his job well. He ended up going out a lot anyway, due to the volatility of the region his company was in and the high OPTEMPO. He volunteered to support the mission whichever way he could. He usually served as driver.

Truth be told, there are very few members of a civil affairs unit, COMPANY-SIZED element or smaller, who do not find themselves 'going out the wire' out of sheer necessity to man vehicles (consider the theater minimum number of vehicles to convoy) or provide security for the mission. Sometimes big army is not able to escort the CA team to a village because they have a more salient mission. It is ALL-HANDS at that point.

A good take-away from this (not directed towards you) is the underlying value in all members of the unit constantly training to do each other's job, because a CPT may find himself gunning the .50cal or a SPC who normally drives may find himself being the sole CA representative at a meeting with Sunnis and Shi'ite. (Better know the Commander's intent and have a good relationship with the interpreter.) Is it the right answer with the right mission planning? Not necessarily. But it does happen. It is a current reality.

A close look at the way Reserve civil affairs units operate in unorthodox moxy in-Theater breaking any and all tradition may lead one to say "They are fucked up." (Manage your expectations.) Nevertheless Reserve CA units have been managing to accomplish the mission and consistenly go in harm's way to do so. Some things will continue to be taxed even with the changes in the works such as implementation of mobile CA teams dispatched to the latest surge area, new doctrine and the influx of Human Terrain Teams.

To increase your chances of working outside the wire with the local populace: Learn the language. If you speak Arabic, in the case of Iraq, you will prove to be invaluable to the overall mission. Your fate will not be that of a TOC-Roach.

Integrity is important. If you are serving as the 2, your mind should be on 2 duties and responsibilities first and foremost because those teams are counting on you to support them. If the situation arises for you to support a mission tactically be sure your skills are where they need to be, else speak up. At that point the team will be counting on you to do what is expected of you outside the wire. Do not go along just to "check the box" that you went out. That can prove fatal.

[RR6]

Thanks for some great posts OD, TPD, and Metalchica. You certainly are clearing up some questions I have. I believe I should advise you of my experience: My previous service was with a six man Long Range Surveillance team. (This experience includes time spent augmenting a 5th SFG(A) ODA in SWA) I possess a Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB), and wings. And, I understand that some people want to 'check the box' - but BTDT. I want to help, and I'm looking for the best way to do that. I am currently a Manager at a Native American Casino, with a lot of people skills. Question: How would this kind of experience be utilized in a Civil Affairs unit?

[Metalchica]

Civil affairs doctrine is straightforward and easy enough to learn. People skills are inherent to the individual and can make or break a relationship with a different culture. Understanding the tribal mindset is key in many places civil affairs troops deploy to including Iraq and HOA. Perhaps you have some unique experiences working with different Native American tribes from your job that you can bring to the table.

[RR6]

Unique experiences? That reminds me of a situation I had once at the Casino. You see we had some Saudis there gambling, and I couldn't help but listen in on some of their situation. It was kind of funny when I said thank you in Arabic. They were a little shocked, and asked me how I knew their language: 'Ana Amreeki Joondi' They were surprised, and I impressed my coworkers. I'm interested in both fields of Military Intelligence and Civil Affairs. That's why I'm asking all these questions. I'm trying to see where I would do the most good.

[RR6]

Okay, it looks like this thread has died. I've decided to focus my attention on enlisting in a Reserve Civil Affairs unit as a 38b. I think I can make the greatest contribution in Civil Affairs. So, please, any information or assistance will be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to all posts! :)

[CATAtonic426]

Up 6, out 36, keep your feet & knees together... ;-)

[RR6]

Thanks for the kind words! I'd appreciate any assistance or tips you could pass on to me. Looking forward to future replies!