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PO BONG
20 February 2001, 21:14
The WACO was really a true example of a failed SWAT opeartion in Law Enforcement history. As recently as last year, there are many reports of government cover up of using flameable stuff, and one report in the media even said the ATF agents were only for fist fights! Not gun-battles! But I cannot make too many judgements on the incident as I haven't invovled,but I want say a few points.

First, whoever in the ATF plan and execute the opeartion break a very important principal in combat, it is a simple common sense: know you enemy well! And whatever reason, they didn't. They know that those are heavily armed with lots of weapons such as M16'S, AK47'S,some anti tank weaponary, 0'50 CAILBER RIFLES and sniper rifles( One of the dead agents was believed to be hit by this caliber weapon.) and also ready for raids by cops, and they just hastily send the SRT TEAMS in!
Secondly, they could have call off the raid when their undercover agent inform them that these guys were waiting for them , but for whatever reason they chose not to.
Thirdly, someone tip off the opeartion to the Branch Davidians. Or other wise they wouldn't ready for the ATF. It is possibly the media or an insider.
Fourthly, the ATF could have combined their SRT teams with the local deputies or TEXAS STATE Troppers Tactical teams to help out for the operation sice these teams are as experienced in doing these kinds of raid.
Fifth, the element of suprise were already lost due to second and third factors mentioned and this theory is very important in all SWAT opeartions!
Sixth, when the FBI take over, they moves didn't make the situation better? Is that true?
Finally, I would said the ATF agents did their best that day and I feel deeply sorry for the four agents that die in the raid and also to 80+ Davidains. The ATF SRT TEAMS were well armed and eqiued from what I see in the raid and suit the standard of a basic SWAT TEAM. MP5'S SHOTGUNS, SIGS PISTOLS, M16'S, BASIC ENTRY TOOLS and basic gear like Helmets, Goggles, Assault Vest and they have all the basic training. ( let me verify one thing, I held nothing against the ATF OR FBI.)By the way, does anyone really knows what the ATF have jurisdiction in apart fromthe three things, alchol, tobacco, firearms, they present at almost every major terriost attacks on the US in the 90's. Well that's all I can say, and I hope the truth come out one day about this targic incident and that the ATF, FBI, and all the law enforcement agencys learnt from this incident.

mdb23
20 February 2001, 22:11
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

BRC
21 February 2001, 03:37
MDB,

Amen

BRC

grrlcop74
21 February 2001, 08:07
PO BONG, didn't you learn your lesson last time you piped up about something you have absolutely no clue about? I hope this BB can support another 8 pages of utter B.S. LMAO!!

Kristen

RECON5
21 February 2001, 08:24
First off wonder boy, I was there and since you were not close your pie hole stop monday morning quaterbacking. This situation has been critiqued by everyone from Military Spec Ops groups to local SWAT Teams so there is no need for you to put your .02 worth in and beat a dead horse.

Sorry folks, having worked with the ATF during this incident, and hosting some of their agents, while they were in town makes me kinda.....SENSATIVE....to those NEVER BTDT critics.

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REMEMBER 1*

bd
21 February 2001, 11:51
Po Bong,

YOU need to learn to spell and use at least marginally good grammer.

By the way, I just got off the phone with a dead horse. He'd like for the beatings to stop.

BD

ah hell, nevermind...


[This message has been edited by bd (edited 02-21-2001).]

Linus
21 February 2001, 19:29
WOOOOOOHAAAAAA!!!

Here we go a again, round up the posse! Anyone up for 300 posts?

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Honestas supra omnis

ANACONDA
21 February 2001, 23:10
GET A ROPE !
THE PO-MEISTER STRIKES AGAIN !

EVER THOUGHT OF DOING THE MONDAY NIGHT FOOT BALL SPORTSCAST ?
YOU'D DO BETTER THAN THAT OTHER TWIT.




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"When You Have them By the Balls, Their Hearts and Minds Will Follow"

ski
22 February 2001, 02:34
PO BONG is smoking his bong again.

Let me take this opportunity to tell you all about my new and improved SWAT-Brick tactical thigh holsters and off-duty SWAT-Brick fanny packs...

Ski

dsumner
22 February 2001, 09:28
Hey Ski, not so fast < iwas just about to re-introduce "DA Turd" and "Da Flamin Turd" both in a lovely brown bag.

Remember...When the shit hits the fan. It's probably Da Turd.

Linus
22 February 2001, 10:11
YES!!! <ROTFL>

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Honestas supra omnis

grrlcop74
22 February 2001, 11:49
<getting out blank video tapes>

Time to make some more amateur training films!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Kristen
"Bow chicka bow bow"

bd
22 February 2001, 12:31
Just another Po Bong post.....

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/gren.gif

RECON5
22 February 2001, 14:18
I wanted to post one of those smiley faces with a cape next to the "Wonder Boy" comment but I couldn't find one, but I am sure some of our ingenious "digital" artist would have made my post more colorfull.........Dont get
carried away SKI we dont need to see DA TURD in full color...Thanks anyway.


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REMEMBER 1*

ski
23 February 2001, 01:47
Sorry, but I cannot claim DA TURD, that is a dsumner product. But I DO make DA TURD dispensers/launchers that are installed to the bottom of any agency's rotary wing or fixed wing aircraft. "DA SHIT SLINGER" can be mounted to any airborne platform and slaved to the aircraft's FLIR system for accurate night time targeting...

Ski

dsumner
23 February 2001, 20:32
Yeah, but for only 15 cents you can have the Shit Slinger CQB. All you need is a plastic cup, astrong arm, and good aim.

ANACONDA
24 February 2001, 15:48
DOES THIS GUY GET "ROYALTIES" FOR HAVING THE LONGEST THREADS ?

RECON5
26 February 2001, 08:26
Naaaaaaaaa, shit for brains is parting himself out to Dsumner and Ski for beer money to supply them with the main ingredient for thier products.

***That one is for you Rogue, thought you would appreciate the quality***

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REMEMBER 1*

dsumner
26 February 2001, 23:44
I still say if the ATF SRT guys had Da Turd (TM)along this whole Waco thing could have been avoided. All they had to do was toss a couple of these bad boys into the main house, and the place would have come to a stand still. Get hit with one of these suckers and the last thing on your mind is shooting it out with those "jack booted new world order thugs come to take away your guns".

PO BONG
27 February 2001, 22:54
Did you say that they could have put more undercover agents inside the compound to cordinate with the raid? Or they could have change the planning and exceution of the raid in another way. Is that what you try to say? Do you like the ATF agency as a law enforcement agency?

bd
28 February 2001, 00:27
PO BONG -

It doesn't matter what could have/would have/should have been done.

Nobody here is going to play Monday morning quarterback with that incident.

Hell, the govt. agency I was with at the time worked with the ATF in a peripheral manner and none of us ever second guessed anything.

Neither should you.

RECON5
28 February 2001, 08:27
Did you say you were a total idiot? You like getting on the internet talking shit and looking like a antogonistic moron, who knows nothing about the topics he post on? Are you saying your just a wanna be, who likes to monday morning quaterback LE?

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REMEMBER 1*

tactical
2 March 2001, 12:11
Only one way to put it. POBONG equals S.O.S. (Stuck On Stupid)

No reason to comment further.

Linus
10 March 2001, 15:54
Yeah!

Now kick him. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

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Honestas supra omnis

WS-G
13 March 2001, 00:29
You mean like this?
http://www.stickdeath.com/blair.gif

RogueExec
13 March 2001, 22:41
Originally posted by RECON5:
Naaaaaaaaa, shit for brains is parting himself out to Dsumner and Ski for beer money to supply them with the main ingredient for thier products.

***That one is for you Rogue, thought you would appreciate the quality***




*sniff, sniff* I love you, man.

Say, by the way, where is good ole' No Dong these days???