State Tactical Teams vs. Local PD & Sheriff's Tactical Teams

[Double Tap]

To anyone:

What is your opinion of State Tactical Teams when compared to local PD & Sheriff's Tactical Teams or vice versa?

I know one has state jurisdiction and the other a county or town/city jurisdiction, that is not what I'm looking for. In terms of quality, frequency of call outs, funding, training, weaponry (quality of), etc, how do they compare to one another? Of course, this would vary from state to state, but just a general comparison or any personal state-specific digressions is what I'm looking for in this question. I understand that comparing LAPD's SWAT team to Michigan's State Emergency Support Team would be like comparing apple's to orange's somewhat, but I'm just looking for a general comparison between State and Municipal Tactical Teams.

Thanks,

Dane

[Gunpoint]

You pretty much answered the question already. Its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to make a comparison like you're asking for. Thats my opinion. I'm sure alot of non-operators will chime in with their Tom Clancy-like opinions...

[SSMV]

I agree with 1811 and what you have already stated, it all depends on their funding and amount of training time they get. Of course, a full time team is going to get more money and better schools, therefore, be better trained, in most cases. However, how often they are actually "called-out" for live situations could have an important impact on their financial situation and the amount of money that the agency will invest in the team; or it don't even have to be live call-outs, it could be how oftent that they are actually used, such as other duties including, VIP protective security, search and rescue, surveillance, etc.

[bd]

1811 summed it up.

Reminds me of the "Who's better, Delta/Rangers/SF/FR/SEAL's etc" threads.

BD

[Double Tap]

To all who replied:

I kind of figured it would be like pulling teeth or something similar to that effect. I had to try. Thanks for reading the question at least. I appreciate it.

-Dane

[WS-G]

Originally posted by Double Tap:
I know one has state jurisdiction and the other a county or town/city jurisdiction....
This depends entirely upon the laws of the state in question. Here in Texas, all Texas-licensed peace officers have full powers-of-arrest throughout the State of Texas. It may interest you as well to know that in Texas, Federal Agents are allowed power-of-arrest only in case of a felony or a breach-of-peace committed in their view or presence.

In terms of quality, frequency of call outs, funding, training, weaponry (quality of), etc, how do they compare to one another?

Again, vast variations. State-level agencies tend to be well-funded no matter where one looks; some municipal/county agencies in the larger metropolitan areas (e.g.: Los Angeles, Metro-Dade) easily rival any State or Federal teams in terms of funding, equipment, operational tempo, etc.

On the other hand, it would be a mistake to assume that there aren't part-time, country-town task forces out there that are just as capable of taking care of business as their better-funded, better-known "major league" counterparts.

[Sharky]

Bill, your statement about the FEDs is true but needs a little clarification. FEDs can only enforce state and local laws when it is a felony or breach of the peace committed in their presence. To say that we don't have the power of arrest, period, would be incorrect since we make more arrests than any other agency in the state. Also, a breach of the peace can cover a lot of ground as it is defined by Texas State Law. Just clarifying a little bit. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif



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F.I.D.O.

[RECON5]

Sharky.........I figured by now you folks working our fine borders would have figured out how to articulate P.O.P. as a breech of the peace........"It's all in how your write up the report". LOL

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REMEMBER 1*

[Gunpoint]

Fed officers are also peace officers in some states, although not in California. However, if you are on a joint task force, you have limited peace officer status, whatever that means. I've made more local arrests than Federal, and so far, they all went to jail. At least for a bit http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[WBRCRT]

Originally posted by Double Tap:
To anyone:

What is your opinion of State Tactical Teams when compared to local PD & Sheriff's Tactical Teams or vice versa?

I know one has state jurisdiction and the other a county or town/city jurisdiction, that is not what I'm looking for. In terms of quality, frequency of call outs, funding, training, weaponry (quality of), etc, how do they compare to one another? Of course, this would vary from state to state, but just a general comparison or any personal state-specific digressions is what I'm looking for in this question. I understand that comparing LAPD's SWAT team to Michigan's State Emergency Support Team would be like comparing apple's to orange's somewhat, but I'm just looking for a general comparison between State and Municipal Tactical Teams.

Thanks,

Dane

[WBRCRT]

I think there is a need for both types of teams. In some rural areas there may not be a support system for a local team, thereby making the state team the only one. In my jurisdiction we have both and the good thing about it is a local team has the capability to be deployed quickly and response time is minimal where the state team may have a longer deployment time due to operators being so spread out.

[Watsy]

In our state we went to a multi-Jurisdiction team which is again quick to deploy within 45
minutes and the most important point is
because our "Chief's" did not want to give
the power to the State STOP team... when the State comes in...It's all about the local team knowing the "actors" vs. the State coming in on their High horses and saying we take contol make a hole...The Troopers are here...Again as already mentioned it's
an issue of a timely deployment...
Personally as a PO in a small rural town
of 15K, 265 miles of roads I think we NEED
both options...I would go with the local if
I had a say but obviously no one wants my
opinion...

[MADMIK]

Training. One European SWAT guy mentioned that city, county, and state SWAP teams don't trained together, unlike is his country and other European countries. He told me that in the 1980s. Might be different down (in some states).

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Watsy:
but obviously no one wants my
opinion...

I'd like your opinion on long-distance relationships.

[RECON5]

Watsy- you could give him your opinion on toilet paper and he would buy stock.........

Rogue - How is the application process going?

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by RECON5:
Watsy- you could give him your opinion on toilet paper and he would buy stock.........

I'm not sure I wanna know about that...

Rogue - How is the application process going?

I've completed everything but the psych exam. For those of you who know me, I'm basically guaranteed to fail that http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif but otherwise, I'm in good shape. I'm currently #1 of 8 remaining. Still in the "anything could happen" phase.

[Watsy]

Rogue,
Where do I start, I had a first date last night...When the popping started at the dinner place - I scanned tables and said,
quietly..."I got you covered." trying to see if it was actually small .22LR or just some other sound...as it turned out it was not
rounds going off but we both thought at first
...fire in the hole...(He's a Navy vet.)
Well, I have NOT heard from him again...
over 24 hrs. and I have a feeling MEN don't
want to be "covered" by women in that way...
So Rogue... to answer your question I would consider a man who loves the OUTDOORS, thinks it's normal to have a gal that wears
two guns... just so she does not get pinned down at the Mall and a rather large edged weapon FOR ha ha's...You can never be too
prepared...What can I say...except I will send smoke signals because god know's I can't read bd's dots and dashes... http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[This message has been edited by Watsy (edited 04-27-2001).]

[grrlcop74]

Be careful Watsy, or he'll replace his "Kristen L. Brown Pimptress in Blue Polyester Shrine" with the "Watsy Oakley Gun Hussy Memorial Wall".

Kristen http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/tongue.gif

[SGT_GRUNT_USMC]

TEST

[SGT_GRUNT_USMC]

Watsy,
What Police Dept. in Massachusetts are you with?I'm in Mass.Just curious.You said
something about regional SWAT Teams.Are
you with CEMLEC,NEMLEC,or Norfolk County TPF?

GRUNT

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
Be careful Watsy, or he'll replace his "Kristen L. Brown Pimptress in Blue Polyester Shrine" with the "Watsy Oakley Gun Hussy Memorial Wall".

Kristen http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/tongue.gif

Now, now, Pimptress --- Stiletto Queen, Goddess of All That Is Leather, Giver of Blunt Trauma, Executrix of Chafed Wrists, and Mistress of the Cattle Prod (in my best Hazen-esque verbiage) --- your shrine is in no danger.

But, I would like to talk to you both about a mutual admiration society and the prospect of a (ahem) "group" gathering.

[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 04-28-2001).]

[Watsy]

Rogue,
All I will say is I have successfully broken
one man's nose and I did not use personal
weapons as defined in the context of "our"
world...You could not handle us alone...you can always.......dream...though...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[Watsy]

Kristen,
36 hrs. and NO word from Mr. First Date...
I am feeling the heat of the typical crash
and burn...I guess going in the hot tub on
the first date was too much...It's back to cops, I gave the civilian's good try...You
Texas guys got any suggestions for me to look for a target rich environment???

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Watsy:
Rogue,
...You could not handle us alone...


Ahhhhhhh, good......you underestimate my prowess.

They are many, who lie along life's dreary path, tattered, torn, and bleeding, who have made that mistake.

There are equally many women (what can I say, I used to be a slut) along life's road who remember the Rogue as their mirage of ecstasy in life's dreary desert.

She who hesitates, is lost. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif





[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 04-28-2001).]

[Watsy]

Rogue,
You dog you, I would never of expected that...from you a fine Texas boy...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[Watsy]

Grunt,
Check your email...I'm in at my PD @ 1800 hrs. tonight too...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Watsy:
from you a fine Texas boy...



Hey now.......I don't rate to be included with the likes of Sharky, Salter, and Recon5.

<<kicking back, resting his feet on the comfy Seattle-type foot rest>>

Nevertheless, as the line goes, "The list is long and distinguished......"

[Watsy]

Rogue,
I am sorry about assuming you were a fine upstanding gentleman from the Great State of
Texas...Thru my training and experience I have questions for you...How can such a profound and phophylactic person with 1331 post NOT have an email listed...What are you AFRAID of.. the Twin's or is it something that goes bump in the middle of the night...
Just some thoughts for you to ponder...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Email en route.

Nothing to hide.

My life is an open book. It's just that some of the pages haven't been colored yet.

[bd]

Originally posted by Watsy:
Rogue,
I am sorry about assuming you were a fine upstanding gentleman from the Great State of
Texas...

What are you AFRAID of.. the Twin's or is it something that goes bump in the middle of the night...



I think he's looking for something that goes hump in the middle of the night.

Regards from Texas, "The Target Rich Environment State" - BD

[DCH]

LAPD D-Platoon and LASD SEB are two that come to mind.

I'm sure most of the smaller CA cities that field part-time Special Response Teams take advantage of the Training offered by the above agencies. Some worth mentioning are;
-West Covina PD SPD
-Huntington Park SERT
-Fullerton/Brea-Linda/Placentia QCSRT
-Oxnard SWAT

DCH

[RECON5]

BD- LMAO....

Kristen, if you come down to visit your family and bring Watsy you may want to un-arm her first....It took me 20min to get through security at the new airport and I was not carrying my firearm or on official business.
Gotta love a chic that carries as many weapons as you do..........

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REMEMBER 1*

[grrlcop74]

God knows I learned my lesson about packing heat EVERYWHERE last police week when myself and a buddy be-bopped over the Holocaust Museum only to get there and see the big ol' sign "if you even ASK about weapons we will put you in the pokey". We had to trek all the way back across the damn river to our hotel room. I felt nekkid without Thelma (my Sig) or Louise (my Glock) around. Poor babies having to sit in that dark ol' box in the hotel room by their wittle wonesomes...

Kristen

[REMF]

OK, bd said you fine Americans on SWATNET would get me on the right path, so I'm just checking in. And having read the 11 page short story (which if it was put on paper would have pages that stick together) I won't even mention that Kristen has the phrases "felt nekkid" and "dark ol' box" in her last post. I'm not going to mention them because I want to see what you professionals will do with these seemingly innocuous words to push this thread here to 12 pages.

REMF

"Oh sure, a banana isn't perverted but the minute I open a can of Spaghettio's..."

[This message has been edited by REMF (edited 05-01-2001).]

[Watsy]

Unless you "Freeze"it...I think a better alternative is "Dole" pops they come in alot of very pretty colors...Just be cautious some of the colors can stain cotton fabric...
<<so I have been told>> http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[This message has been edited by Watsy (edited 05-01-2001).]

[bd]

REMF - see, what'd I tell you, bro? The SEALs/SF/D/etc-boards got nothing over this board here. The girls are our secret weapon. They give "hands-up!" a totally different perspective. Scares me.

Now, Recon, what the heck would you want to disarm the girls for?! What kind of fun would that be? I'll take em armed and aggressive!

Standing by for incoming...

BD

[Watsy]

I quess my question would be how do you define "aggressive"...I hope the word you are
looking for is "assertive"...

Not afraid to be assertive...but knowing when to be submissive!!!

It opens up so many possibities when you think along those creative terms...

Just my opinion no one asked...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RECON5]

Originally posted by Watsy:
Not afraid to be assertive...but knowing when to be submissive!!!

It opens up so many possibities when you think along those creative terms...
[/B]

See what I mean. They are wired right. They don't need no stinkin guns.........

A woman after my own heart...........

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REMEMBER 1*

[bd]

Originally posted by Watsy:
I quess my question would be how do you define "aggressive"...I hope the word you are
looking for is "assertive"...


There's a difference? (Remember, some of us are from Texas.)


Not afraid to be assertive...but knowing when to be submissive!!!


Ahhh... "knowing when"... now we talkin'.


It opens up so many possibities when you think along those creative terms...


How about some of those "creative" examples here? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

BD

[grrlcop74]

Hey Watsy...know any tricks for getting handcuff scuff marks out of headboards? I tried that "Dear Heloise" household tips book, but apparently light bondage is not a strong point of hers. Maybe I should write my own damn book. God knows I better before somebody else beats me to it.

Kristen

[REMF]

Kristen,

See, you're going about the problem all wrong. You don't use the headboard because you get scuff marks. Use the bedframe itself, preferably the foot of the bed. Also, that way when you're done, you are already facing the proper direction to go straight out the door to the kitchen for a beer.

REMF

[RogueExec]

Oh.....you're going to fit in just FINE around here, REMF.

http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

[Watsy]

Kristen,
I have always prefered the fur lined leather
restrains with a nice "D" ring which snugs up
nicely...No marks on anyone or anything...You
can find them at most good "weight lifting"
stores...Remember the importance of our knots... the Bowlin works great never tightening to the point you can't undo it in an emergency situation...Although having a nice Cold Steel knife near the bed
is a plus...

Now get out the "real" whipped cream and have a blast...

When I was getting divorced...My former husband was in law enforcement too... I had only two simple rules:

1) No one calls 911

2) No one draws down on the other...

I think these could apply knowing your situation...When in doubt a "low cover" really does not count if you are still married...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[This message has been edited by Watsy (edited 05-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Watsy (edited 05-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Watsy (edited 05-02-2001).]

[Watsy]

Kristen,
As you can see after seeing "Guys" reaction
to my original post I figured I should modify it as not upset the boys...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[grrlcop74]

Oh I always have my boot knife within reach. My personal theory is that if you manage to get close enough, and then manage to get my gun away (HA), it's personal. I want to feel the blade slip in your 4th or 5th intercostal space. MWAHAHA.

Yeah I pulled my gun on my ex. That was the last time he decided to show up half nuts at the door begging to come back.

Kristen

[RECON5]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
Oh I always have my boot knife within reach. My personal theory is that if you manage to get close enough, and then manage to get my gun away (HA), it's personal. I want to feel the blade slip in your 4th or 5th intercostal space. MWAHAHA.
Kristen

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Easy now, Your starting to turn me on.

GUY - They actually have psychiatrist, who specialize in working with cops. If you "test" a cop, who has been on the stree 5+ years (depending on location) without grading them on a curve. We would all be committed. That was told to me by the Dr., who tested us in Spec Ops. He said he had to give us a little more latitude. Don't laugh..with your back ground. Your in the same barrel I would bet.......LOL

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REMEMBER 1*

[Tracy]

A group of us in SF were enrolled in the Personnel Reliability Program for some work we did in the 70s and 80s.

Part of the annual checklist was a psych eval. Womack Army Hospital started contracting out the psychologist positions to Duke Medical Center. So a bunch of us go traipsing into the Psych Clinic for the MMPI test, Ink-Blot, and the interview. We go into the interview phase and are met by civilians, not military doctors as before. Part of this process before then was to be smart-asses with our answers; because the Docs got a kick out of it and gave them an insight to us as well.

After they talked to four or five of us, they called a Code Green (Combative Patient) and some REALLY big orderlies showed to 'escort' us to holding tanks. Naturally, we disagreed with the procedure and a commotion of sorts broke out in the lobby and interview area. Finally the OIC of the Clinic shows up and tries to straighten out the mess.

The civilians came right out and said that we needed help badly; something about our facination with guns, violence and revolution. The OIC cleared things REAL fast by stating "They're GRUNTS, and they LIKE their work!" He looks at us and "You passed, get out of here...". We boogied.

That's what you get, boys and girls, when you let hippies graduate from medical school.

I know my civvie doc was mortified when my standard reply to the situational questions was always the same: "Death, just shoot the SOB. Even if that person is one-in-a-million, that means there's 999 MFers just like him, so shoot him and get a replacement that works better."

Now days, I do NOT joke with the brain docs. Remember "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"?


[This message has been edited by Tracy (edited 05-02-2001).]

[RogueExec]

Last time I took the MMPI, I was asked, politely, to leave. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

Everyone seemed real anxious to get me out of the building. They were being overly polite and opening doors for me, using "Mr." as a title, and just working me toward the door.

Needless to say, I DON'T like that one. Ink blots are good though:

"Yes, that one looks like death, sir."

"And that one looks like, uh.......death."

"Ahhhhh. THAT one looks like, well...death."

DR.: "Thank you, sir. Uh, we'll call you."

[grrlcop74]

Originally posted by REMF:
go straight out the door to the kitchen for a beer.

REMF

Yeah...MINE. Get your own, and while you're at it, make me some pie.

Kristen

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
make me some pie.

Kristen

Only if yours is dessert.



[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 05-02-2001).]

[bd]

You people scare me.

-BD

[Watsy]

When I had my two day psych eval on day one they put me in the room with a full bowl of Jelly beans...I ate the whole bowl almost single handledly...Day two no jelly beans...The Doc only did cops and thought I was quite well adjusted...I requested a copy of the report...But I went home saying I really wanted to say yes to that one question..

I know I am okay because some of the guys at my PD take photo's of their BM's and compare
volume and texture etc., so I am okay...

I do not do that and I have NO interest in that...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Watsy:

I do not do that and I have NO interest in that...



<<writing that down>>

Okay. <<scribbling notes>> No.......pics.......of......poop.......for........ ..Watsy.

Okay. Got it.

<<puts camera away>>

[Tracy]

Originally posted by bd:
You people scare me.

-BD

I see dead people...

[Watsy]

Tracy,
The more I see your replies the more I want
to agree with you...You think like I think...Or I think like you think... now that's crazy...Constantly, I agree with
A-L-L your posts...Should I start looking into the bowl or am I okay really okay...LOL...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[justagrunt]

Thought I'd stop in and see what's going on. So far, I'm LMAO!

[This message has been edited by justagrunt (edited 05-02-2001).]

[RogueExec]

Watsy,

Go to www.tracy.com (http://www.tracy.com) and sign up for the weekly newsletter. That will keep you up with all the Chief's words of wisdom, as well as his schedule of appearances.

http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

[Watsy]

Rogue,
You dink, I am giving a guy a complement and
you have to destroy it...Shame on you...I will tell Kristen about this character flaw...We will get out the duck tape and take care of this problem ASAP...No fingers
no typing...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[REMF]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
Yeah...MINE. Get your own, and while you're at it, make me some pie.

Kristen

Uhhh, not trying to sound like a pansy here, but could you at least toss me the keys?

Originally posted by RogueExec:
Only if yours is dessert.

My thoughts exactly...just forgot to add the whipped cream. Or a la mode is good. My personal favorite, however, would be free.

[RECON5]

Originally posted by bd:
You people scare me.

-BD

YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
RIGHT..............Don't start acting like you have been just peeping over the fence. You've been drinking from the same keg there
Mr. Guilty by association.


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REMEMBER 1*

[Tracy]

The voices are telling me to clean my weapons...

[bd]

You're right Recon. Pour me up another one. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Tracy, pass me the CLP when you're done, will ya?

-BD

[RECON5]

<:LISTENING TO VOICES:> What?....Tell Tracy to be sure and recruit the ladies?....Huh?..
Oh because there is nothing like a ticked off woman with a mission.....Yeah, Yeah, Wait, Don't go........I'm listening.......Ok, OK, I will get to sharpening my blades.

I'm back now......................

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REMEMBER 1*

[Tracy]

I wouldn't be so paranoid if everyone wasn't out to get me...

[Tracy]

My favorite is the Paranoid-Schizophrenic:

"They're out to get me!"
"Shut Up!"
"Let him talk!"
"Norman, is that you?"
"Macho, Macho Man..."

[grrlcop74]

The last words I needed to hear coming from my beloved Ninja Claus were "Macho, macho man...." Maybe that's what the Village People were missing...an operator...

Kristen

[Watsy]

Sounds very normal to me...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[grrlcop74]

I am not above posting all the words to "It's Raining Men" by the original "Two Tons of Fun", the Weather Girls. Ah..that brings back memories. When I was preggo and stuck in dispatch/surveillance, one of the sergeants had a little alien proggie on the computer where it sang "I Will Survive". I got all the old disco anthems stuck in my head after that, and the comms coordinator was sitting in the office with me. I suddenly broke into a rousing rendition of "It's Raining Men", complete with spinning chair and growling the "r" in "raining". I stopped spinning (while 8 months pregnant) and realized I had kind of lost myself there for a moment. Travis just looked at me, cocked one eyebrow and said, "For a brief moment there, you were an overweight black girl." Funk soul bruddah check it out now......

Kristen

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Watsy:
Rogue,
You dink, I am giving a guy a complement and
you have to destroy it...Shame on you...I will tell Kristen about this character flaw...We will get out the duck tape and take care of this problem ASAP...No fingers
no typing...



Put the stilettos on before you punish me....

PUHLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

[RECON5]

I was told the reason I do not sleep is due to over analyzing everything. Personally I don't see it........Did I miss something? What could I have forgotten? Exscuse me, while I make a check list.....

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REMEMBER 1*

[Watsy]

Recon,
Don't you think Post IT notes and 3X5 index
cards are the Greatest...There NOTHING wrong
with being "Anal" or "Analytical" as long
as you know the difference...They are
qualities that MAKE you a good investigator...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

HUH-HUH.....HUH-HUH.....she said, ANAL....

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
and so am I.

Tracy, the "I see dead people" post was timely and I LMAO every time I re-read the page to find out just WTF we were talking about.

So, WTF WERE we talking about??? Oh yeah....so I wear my kilt in to the office today, and.........

[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 05-04-2001).]

[Watsy]

Originally posted by RogueExec:
HUH-HUH.....HUH-HUH.....she said, ANAL....


So, WTF WERE we talking about??? Oh yeah....so I wear my kilt in to the office today, and.........

Rogue,
Tell me about yourself...Do you wear Boxers
and if so which type...Plain or print...
Or do you do what I do with a Kilt... go natural and hope the wind blows to give that peek-a-boo effect...Wow...that rushing of the air...a beautiful thing...Come on tell all...

[This message has been edited by RogueExec (edited 05-04-2001).]



------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RECON5]

OH WATSY.........I bet you say that to all the cops. Go on...Go on....compliments will get you everywhere....;>

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REMEMBER 1*

[Watsy]

Originally posted by RECON5:
OH WATSY.........I bet you say that to all the cops. Go on...Go on....compliments will get you everywhere....;>


Recon,
YOU should know...



------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Okay. No boxers. Grippies only.

As far as the rest, I'm secure with myself. Just don't say sh*t about my matching handbag, dammit.

[Watsy]

Now that Curtis is BACK maybe we can get back on track...Since his sense of humor
pushes us all over the edge... http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[Curtis Newkirk]

Watsy, I'm offended. I'm just a sweat old guy from Texas. I like puppies, sunsets, and oh yeah, lesbian P.E. Teachers.

P.S. In reference to the Browns Fan "crack" a couple of weeks ago, the aim can't always be perfect.
And unfortunately, there is a difference between bad taste, and taste bad.

[Watsy]

I am a bit pissed...I just logged onto SOCNET
the "Avoid what you fear...the Lawsuit.."
and some commercial ad...was at the top of the page...

Well...all I can say is... I was named in a FEDERAL Lawsuit and "IF" you are doing your
job you WILL be sued...it irritated me... to
no end...Anyone can hire a laywer and call
foul...My life, house was on hold because I
was NAMED in the suit...hello what's wrong with this picture...Why are we seeing this
on SOCNET banner...we all are subject to these lawsuits...Can someone help me understand...why I should be afraid...
"I am NOT afraid and I WILL do my job...Period...Any comments or I am just on
the wrong side of this...A really pissed off
PO...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RECON5]

Relax Watsy, it is the hypocracy of the situation that is driving you up not the fact you were named in a law suite. You said it yourself...If you do your job it will happen eventually because any shit head can hire an attorney. Take a deep breath, and remember the add on the banner is just a great way to get folks attention to check out a product......Worked on you didn't it.
DDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOO. lol



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REMEMBER 1*

[Watsy]

Recon,
I saw the banner...and just continued to
March.. I refuse to read that trash...
Yes, it did piss me off...It DID get a big
reaction...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Curtis Newkirk:
Watsy, I'm offended. I'm just a sweat old guy from Texas. I like puppies, sunsets, and oh yeah, lesbian P.E. Teachers.

Dude, is that "sweet" or "sweaty"? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

P.S. In reference to the Browns Fan "crack" a couple of weeks ago, the aim can't always be perfect.
And unfortunately, there is a difference between bad taste, and taste bad.

ROTFLMAO!!! I was wondering how you'd respond to my little jab there..... http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by RECON5:
Take a deep breath, and remember the add on the banner is just a great way to get folks attention to check out a product......



Sorta like those big ass belt buckles, right?

[RECON5]

Originally posted by RogueExec:
Sorta like those big ass belt buckles, right?



Rogue...you watch too much TV. Those went out in the 80's for most....I do remember some folks had extensive damage in bar room fights from people using them as weapons though..... I just wear a regular Ranger buckle sporting the excellent craftsmanship of our local boys in the Hooskow...or Prison for some. Wouldn't want to disappoint anyone.

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REMEMBER 1*

[jnc36rcpd]

Watsy, I've been named in a few lawsuits over the years myself, including a spectacular civil rights suit. I don't know anything about CDT. They've advertised for some time in the IACSP journal. I'm not familiar enough with their training to offer an opinion regarding its quality.

I have learned that the biggest motivators for many police managers are publicity and liability. I can't really blame them for marketing their product to the people who pay for the majority of slots in their courses.

I doubt any CDT trainers are following this thread, especially since it has run somewhat, shall we say, off topic. That said, they should realize that most operators and instructors train to deal with a greater concern than liability, specifically some mope whose stronger, faster, or luckier than we are. While civil and criminal liability should certainly be concerns for a use of force trainer, I'm more concerned that an encounter end up with the bad guy handcuffed in the back of my patrol car--preferably undamaged, but that's not my #1 concern--and that I don't finish out my tour in the ER (or worse).

Just a couple of thoughts. Be safe.

[Watsy]

I agree priority number one... go home in one
piece at the end of your tour...PERIOD...
I feel that when you have been "served" or
named in a suit you do become more vigilant..
I became a much better educated report writer and learned that acticulating the little sights and sounds and feelings in the
excited phase of the "incident" only helped
to far better describe and document the level of activity you perceived...I became
much more in touch with the my senses...
The bottom line is what was the level of fear
you as a reasonable and prudent PO felt at that exact minute...I believe it has given
me the ability to do my job much better at
a "higher" level of professionalism...because
I am aware of some many other factors having
a much better understanding of the CJ system...<<In summary that ad just pissed me off...>>

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[grrlcop74]

I would like to amend my previous statement of "You ain't a cop until you've done it in/on a squad car" to "You ain't a cop until you've done it in/on a squad car AND been involved in a lawsuit". Hell, I know 25 year veterans who can't even count the number of lawsuits anymore. F**k it. I do have to say, however, that I agree with the premise of better training. It's nice to say "anything as long as I go home at the end of the night", but being able to do that comes down to TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING. If you have been better trained at non-lethal force and have the equipment necessary as well, it's second nature just like kicking the tar out of someone. It doesn't matter if it comes from civvies or within the department. We have had some big use-of-force issues here, and have resolved some by getting beanbag guns, tasers, etc., and there has been a marked improvement in both the behavior of the repeat offenders who want to fight ("Holy shit it's that electric gun thingy again!") and it only helps officers who already have a complaint or two for excessive force, justified or not. Just my $.02.

Kristen

[Watsy]

Kristen,
I agree a 110 percent...that's what happens
you get zapped and you train, and train,
and train...

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[WS-G]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
... AND been involved in a lawsuit".
A quote from someone who shall remain anonymous wrt the ASP:
"You're gonna get sued anyway, so you might as well get your money's worth."

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
"Holy shit it's that electric gun thingy again!"


<<a quote once overheard in Da Rogue's bedroom>>

[RECON5]

Yeah Rogue, and I bet it was not to a suspect either.......Well on second thought.... You are DA ROGUE

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REMEMBER 1*

[RogueExec]

Ooooooooooooooooo. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

I have to give you fives on that one, dude!

[Tracy]

My Brother's Cop Shop in South Central LA used to have "Five Million Dollar" Parties. Every time the sum of all lawsuits against the Department was a multiple of 5 million (increase or decrease), they'd have a party. In 1989, they were throwing a bash every other week... Not one penny was ever paid out; but it cost the PD in terms lawyers and time lost for patrol officers not on the beat.

[RogueExec]

Wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall at one of THOSE parties...!

[RECON5]

Rogue - I am sure those nice gentlemen are merely discussing the sensitivity training they have received over a nice glass of lemonade. "CHOIR PRACTICE as we call it"

YYYEEEAAAHHHHHH RIGHT!!!!!

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REMEMBER 1*

[RogueExec]

Choir practice, indeed.....LOL! Practicing a little "chin music", no doubt.

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by RECON5:
any shit head can hire an attorney.



That's kinda redundant, isn't it?