Crybaby CPT leaves the Army

[KidA]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403390.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Comments: I think he should have stuck to discussing this bit in more detail and built his case around it:

My mission as a platoon leader was to clean up police corruption and reintegrate the Iraqi police into the security structure of Ghazaliyah, a district in western Baghdad. Over time, my platoon built a relationship of trust with Iraqi policemen, who gave us leads on insurgents. On one patrol, we detained a Sunni whom our battalion's intelligence officer confirmed as a genuine criminal. This man had threatened local residents, preventing them from participating in a clinic we had restarted.

A search of his home yielded illegal weapons, sniper bullets, insurgent propaganda, gobs of money and lists of Iraqi political and military officials' addresses. When we learned that he was the leading Sunni insurgent in Ghazaliyah, our platoon felt like world-beaters. Morale surged. Finding this man validated counterinsurgency theory -- empowering indigenous forces, patiently letting them take the lead, and collecting intelligence through local and national networks that know the "human terrain" better than foreign armies. It taught my men to be patient with it, and gave them pride.

Moreover, a change came over our counterparts in the Iraqi police. You could see their hope awakening. They began to feel safe in giving us the names of corrupt policemen and police car numbers. We secretly built a case against their leader (which this very newspaper inadvertently exposed in late 2006 when it published the full name of my Iraqi confidante, creating even more stress for my troops.)

So, good grab, right? Wrong. We later had to release the detainee. Somehow the evidence to hold him was lacking -- even though he had discussed his role in sectarian violence under questioning by our intelligence officers. At the detention facility, I learned that most of the evidence we had collected against him had never been analyzed. I was told that a high-ranking official (I don't know whether it was a diplomat or someone from the CIA or the Army) had called the facility, incredulous that the man was being detained. Later, I found out that our detainee was politically well-connected, which supposedly played a role in his release. But we lost credibility with the Iraqi police. And we were ticked off at the waste of our time and our unnecessary exposure to danger.

It's possible that there was some great rationale for releasing this man. But my men and I will never know why he was really let go. We knew that he was contributing to sectarian violence. Could someone at least tell my men that everything they did counted for something? What did I risk their lives for?


Instead he begins with whining about how he'll be apart from his wife, how he'll have to move to attend school to get promoted, how he can make more in the civilian world, and so on.

[RGR.Montcalm]

Like I said before- now its a job not a committment:rolleyes:

I agree everyone is not cut out for the Army and the sacrifices you have to make to serve the country- maybe we'll be better off without him; i could just hear him now whining to his 1SG and the 1SG saying, "Sir, with all respect due your rank, STFU!":cool:

[KidA]

Here's a hoo-ah article about how the softies need to quit looking on the military as something beneath them:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403388.html

Closing argument:

Consider a young John F. Kennedy working connections to obtain a commission that his health would have denied him otherwise. How many from Harvard pull such strings today? To chalk this up to the ethos of a "simpler," less questioning time would be easy, but it would also be facile.

All else being equal, staffing the armed services with citizens from the broadest range of backgrounds is still the best course. Further, we are in a time, and a conflict, in which the unique demands placed upon the military make the need for innovative leadership acute. (My artillery battalion, for example, conducts foot patrols in Ramadi, performs base security, trains Iraqi police recruits, mans outposts in the desert, forms neighborhood councils, oversees reconstruction projects and . . . oh yes, shoots artillery.) How better to achieve this than to cast a wide net?

Am I simply recruiting among the elite, then? No. But I would regret knowing that some who might have served did not do so because of the same lazy prejudice that I once held -- the barely conscious assumption that some Americans are at once too good, and not good enough, for the military.

[Parajuevos]

I saw alot of I's and my's in this Captains article. He seems to have some idea that the mission of the Army revolves around his needs, the needs of his fiancee and the needs of his future family situation.

The way he talks,he had no idea that the Army requires individual sacrifice, long periods away from home, danger, lots of training and many transfers.

His statement that most Captains can make it on the outside, speaks volumes about his attitude.

I don't know that I'd call him a crybaby but he certainly lacks the dedication needed to be a good officer, who sets an example for his subordinates, while instilling in them the pride and dedication needed to be a good soldier.

The Captain made the right decision to resign. He obviously doesn't have the right stuff. I've always felt that it takes a special kind of person to be a career soldier. Most people don't have that special quality. This Captain falls into the category of "most people."

Another thing that I don't understand is why he felt it necessary to broadcast his decision in the press. Is he that important that he merits two pages in a newspaper?

[KidA]

Another thing that I don't understand is why he felt it necessary to broadcast his decision in the press. Is he that important that he merits two pages in a newspaper?

It was in the Sunday "Outlook" section for opinions, as well as a few other military-centered articles (like the other one I posted in this thread).

But I'm with you - I didn't really see a point to the whole thing. I wonder if any of his troopers saw it? They're probably thinking 'good riddance, get us someone who cares'

[PocketKings]

This Captain doesn't fall into the category of 'most people' because 'most people' don't raise their right hand and serve. He did. He also went to combat, which is again not true for 'most people' or even most people who have served in uniform.

I wonder if his kid's will see it. They'll probably think 'thank God, my Dad cared.'

[Parajuevos]

This Captain doesn't fall into the category of 'most people' because 'most people' don't raise their right hand and serve. He did. He also went to combat, which is again not true for 'most people' or even most people who have served in uniform.

I wonder if his kid's will see it. They'll probably think 'thank God, my Dad cared.'

As one who served and got out after one enlistment, I still say that it takes a special type of person to make a career of the military. Most people don't fall into the category of choosing this path. While I thank the Captain for raising his right hand and serving, he is "most people" because he chose to get out.

I hope that this clears up what I meant.

[Brianj]

My favorite:

Some want to work for the FBI or the CIA, agencies they believe are more effective in the fight against terrorism...

Hey - keep us posted how that works out, Captain - we'll look for another guest column exposing the shocking facts that other federal agencies are also fucked up, and offer no stock options.

My guess is that this guy got his dick stuffed back in during his outbrief with his C.O., and felt the need to share his moral rationalization with everyone.

[Pickpocket]

It's always greener somewhere else. That this guy didn't have the experience to know that things are jacked up no matter whose jersey you put on just means that he's got one hell of a shock coming.

[P38]

Captain Rogers is all over the place with his message so I'll randomly respond:

1. Thank you for your service. You're leaving for the same reasons that many others have for not making the military a career now or in the past. Most just don't write about it in such a whiny manner and send it to a major publication.

2. You put your AKO address at the end of the letter? That's real dumb. I hope you were already on your way out the door.

3. What point were you trying to get too? You had a couple of good ones that you touched on, but spoiled by your tone. Example, the difficulty of an Army lifestyle and why you can't make a clean comparison to a civilian lifestyle. Our leaders always need to be reminded about that, but you blew it with your whining.

3. "even if I have to pay for medical coverage" - get ready for a shock.

4. "stock options" - Who have you been listening too?

5. You have an overly rosy assessment of life on the outside. Some days that merit based system will seem pretty unfair.

6. People in the corporate recruiting business like to spend some time researching their new employees on the internet. You'd better hope that there are a lot of John Rogers' out there so they don't 'Google' your name and this article. They won't be impressed.

7. "serve both my wife and the Army" You're going to "serve" your wife? Your an Armor officer, at least try not to sound like such a whimp even if you know she's the one who is going to rule the roost.

8. It looks like you're a brand new Captain so you probably haven't commanded a company yet. Thank God for that!

9. Lastly, did it occur to you that you might need some references for your future civilian job hunt and all your references now know about this letter?

[SHOOB]

I can understand where he is coming from but he sounds very naive and spiteful for someone who is about the leave a garunteed paycheck to go out into a hurting job market.

[18C4V]

He deployed and he's entitled to his opinion. I want to see all these other fuckers who dodged deployments get thier ass deployed.

[Hot Mess]

He deployed and he's entitled to his opinion. I want to see all these other fuckers who dodged deployments get thier ass deployed.


Your not referring to a recently promoted E-6 type, at the northern detachment, who has done nothing in the unit, and has the whole body of current SWC students looking for his blood when they return, are you:confused: :D

[18C4V]

Your not referring to a recently promoted E-6 type, at the northern detachment, who has done nothing in the unit, and has the whole body of current SWC students looking for his blood when they return, are you:confused: :D

+1
Among others:D

[Greenhat]

This Captain doesn't fall into the category of 'most people' because 'most people' don't raise their right hand and serve. He did. He also went to combat, which is again not true for 'most people' or even most people who have served in uniform.

Yep.

[mrwill]

As a former CPT myself (got med-boarded, not out voluntarily) I think I can say that this guy, right now, is a bit naively unaware of his situation.

Perception:Life's offerings look plentiful from where you sit as an O3. You get a bunch of corporate headhunter letters, and are wooed by the rumors of $ aplenty from former officers and recruiters alike.
Reality: There is $ aplenty, if you are willing to move to the CITY of the corporation's choosing, and dedicate yourself to moving around as you move up. The money may be plentiful, but so is the cost of living in big cities. Most corporations expect you to move every 4 or 5 years. You and your family get uprooted. Raising kids in the city is no picnic. If your dream is to live and raise a family in NYC, San Fran, etc, you have some good potentials out there.

Perception: CIA/FBI/other agencies are BEGGING for 03's. Flash your ROTC or USMA creds their way and you're golden.
Reality: Those agencies are selective in who they hire. I saw an O3 with a political science degree, 4.0 GPA, several foreign languages, combat experience and more get turned down from an agency that you would think would love to have him. You aren't going to get in on your CPT bars alone. And he doesn't think he would have to move around with these agencies?

While I agree that family life in the military nowadays is not easy, like other people said earlier in this thread, there are sacrifices that ANY military member (not just married O3's) have to make.

I'm not trying to preach from an ivory tower here, but the impression this article gave left a bad taste in my mouth. I can only think of Soldiers whom this Captain should be leading, reading this piece and asking "if this Captain has lost his drive to serve, and it is accepted enough for them to publish it, his opinion must be correct." I guess the way I look at it, leaders should voice their bitching and complaints behind closed doors and not in front of their Troops. By putting his CPT title out there, he isn't doing that.

As Soldiers/NCO's/Officers, we don't get to choose our battles. We serve where and when our civilian leadership chooses. We only choose TO serve or not. I wish this CPT, if he had chosen that this path was not for him, simply come to grips with his choice and move on. We know this fight is not a quick one, an easy one, or a widely accepted one. While there are decisions and methods of fighting this fight that have rubbed me the wrong way too, I voice them as "Will" not "CPT X" I wish this fellow had too. There is a distinct difference in what each represents.

[SN]

The one point management should really key on is the BS that continues to go on in garrison during "reset"

One adavntage to being on the night shift, is I get to talk to a lot of CPT's and LT's. They understand the Army is at war, they don't understand the hours sitting at a desk "just-in-case" mentality that a lot of BN Cdrs still have.

Guy spends 9 months at school, andcomes into a BN at Mach 3, never dawns on him that the BN just returned, and his knowledge base probably isn't as fresh as the XO, or Sr NCO's.

They don't understand getting back from a deployment, being PCS'd to a unit that leaves in 90 days, and seeing staffers at the same installation with ZERO combat tours.

You can call them whiners if you want, but the Army has a retention problem that will break it if someone doesn't show a little common sense.

[The Fat Guy]

Another thing that I don't understand is why he felt it necessary to broadcast his decision in the press. Is he that important that he merits two pages in a newspaper?

He got the attention because less than 8% of all journalists consider themselves to be Conservatives. When the Liberal media can get a soldier, especially an officer to denounce the war or the military in general, that furthers their cause. News be damned. if any of us call the media and say, we would like to share a story of bravery and courage, we would be met with deafening silence; but call with some dirt or say "I witnessed US troops abusing prisoners..." you are their best friend.

fast eddie sends


Jesus, Someone stop me before I pull a muscle...

[BKK]

He will probably wind up divorced anyways once he is a civilian :)

[0699]

What the hell is the point of the letter?

Yes we deploy, yes it's tough on relationships, yes when you're at the bottom of the totem pole the word doesn't always filter down. Deal with it, or get out, but either way quit bitching.

Especially in public...

[Parajuevos]

He got the attention because less than 8% of all journalists consider themselves to be Conservatives. When the Liberal media can get a soldier, especially an officer to denounce the war or the military in general, that furthers their cause. News be damned.


Very valid point. I once wasted 20 minutes on an interiew, with a local radio station reporter. Because I was not politically correct and told it like it was, regarding a particular social issue affecting the district that I worked in, I got zero air time.

The next time I was contacted, by the same reporter, I told her not to waste my time.

[IMUA]

Sigh:confused: Tsk!

Keep The Faith...

Kato

[VMI_Marine]

Along with the sergeants, we're the ones who explain to young enlisted men why a 23 percent interest rate on a car loan is not the best idea.

Only 23 percent? :rolleyes: I'm trying to convince one of my Marines that 27% is borderline criminally stupid.

Keep in mind, fellas, this guy is not writing this for us. Many of the folks here are only too aware of the hardships mentioned in the article, many of us have dealt with them firsthand. CPT Rogers is writing this for the general public, who are not familiar with the hardships mentioned in the article. The guy speaks to the frustrations of many of his peers. I have seen it, and many times it has made me thankful that the Marine Corps' personnel policies seem to be a lot more sensible (at least for JOs). The Army is beating the shit out of their junior officers right now (and believe me, I know it's not just them, as any number of the NCOs in Apache 5-7 could demonstrate), and I think CPT Rogers is trying to bring some awareness to the public of why he and many of his peers are choosing to leave. Over half of West Point's Class of 2002 got out of the Army after 5 years. That should tell us something.

To some of the guys on here, it may just sound like sour grapes, but I think it's an attempt to educate people on why the Army is losing JOs at the current rate. He raises good points, he just does a poor job of bringing it all together and telling us exactly what theme he is trying to illustrate.

I think labeling this guy a "crybaby" is over the top, and undeserved.

[SN]

Only 23 percent? :rolleyes: I'm trying to convince one of my Marines that 27% is borderline criminally stupid.

Keep in mind, fellas, this guy is not writing this for us. Many of the folks here are only too aware of the hardships mentioned in the article, many of us have dealt with them firsthand. CPT Rogers is writing this for the general public, who are not familiar with the hardships mentioned in the article. The guy speaks to the frustrations of many of his peers. I have seen it, and many times it has made me thankful that the Marine Corps' personnel policies seem to be a lot more sensible (at least for JOs). The Army is beating the shit out of their junior officers right now (and believe me, I know it's not just them, as any number of the NCOs in Apache 5-7 could demonstrate), and I think CPT Rogers is trying to bring some awareness to the public of why he and many of his peers are choosing to leave. Over half of West Point's Class of 2002 got out of the Army after 5 years. That should tell us something.

To some of the guys on here, it may just sound like sour grapes, but I think it's an attempt to educate people on why the Army is losing JOs at the current rate. He raises good points, he just does a poor job of bringing it all together and telling us exactly what theme he is trying to illustrate.

I think labeling this guy a "crybaby" is over the top, and undeserved.

Well said, and I agree 100%

[USMC_ANGLICO]

All I can muster is, extremely disappointing.

Many of the things he presents may be true, but the assumptions made are frustrating. Why can you not have a family and serve your country. I have been married for 10 years and have great children and my family understands what I do for a living and supports me in it. She chose to be with me knowing that our life would not be 9-5, m-f and we have a wonderful life. Yes, like all of us, I have missed things with my children and lost out on holidays and birthdays but my family is stronger than missing a holiday. Maybe he has reservations about the strength of his relationship?

Being a mentor and leader is what being an Officer and NCO is about. I pride myself on that as a Marine SNCO I have the opportunity to be a positive influence in a young Marines life and future. So you have to deploy a lot, if you haven't noticed the GWOT is not going anywhere anytime soon and is a generational issue. Deployments are part of the game my friend and when it came time for me to go again, i was there ready to lead my Marines, that is what a leader does.

We have all made sacrifices, I lost my son while I was deployed in 2003 and that will stay with me for the rest of my life, that I was not there, but I also saved a life while I was deployed and that will stay with me forever also. Like many of us, I do not get to spend a lot of time with my family but that does not mean I am a bad father or husband, I make the most out of the quality time i do get to spend with them!

He speaks of stock options and such, like many of us enlisted folks I have my degree also and am close to completing my MBA and with 13 years of leadership and management experience in the US military I am sure I could command a hearty income also but I do not serve my country for a stock option. The return on my investment will be a free nation and hopefully one i can leave for my children to be safe in and keep the fight in someone elses backyard, not thiers.

in my humble opinion, he served, in whatever character I have no idea but i have my guess and now it is his time to go. This is a good time for him to go then, true leaders need to be Co Cdr's, not ones looking to write books and get that big financial advisor gig when they should be concentrating on the lives of their people. I will not call him a crybaby, i have other words reserved for him, but you praise in public and bitch in private and he broke that code. what makes his story more important than that of thousands of other members serving daily, except that he wanted to be famous for awhile. Well you got it sir, now pack your trash and step off.

Keep the Faith brothers, Semper Fi

OB

[mdb23]

All I can muster is, extremely disappointing.

Many of the things he presents may be true, but the assumptions made are frustrating. Why can you not have a family and serve your country.

I work with a guy that just got out of the 101st. He loved being a soldier, and is incredibly proud of his service. He would have loved to have made a career out of it, but he has made comments which echo those made by the Captain in this article.

He deployed twice in the GWOT, and said that his buddies are getting ready to deploy again, some for the third time. He said that when he was in, the standard was 12 months deployed, 12 months off.... but now, it has apparently been changed to 15 months in country, 12 months off.

During those 12 months "off," he said that he had to go to the field, go to all of the BS courses required for promotion, get his schools in, etc......

In other words, he was home about 3-4 months out of every 2 years, and there was no end in sight.

A person may be able to have a family being home 3 months out of every 2 years, but he isn't going to be an active part of it. I don't care how much effort you make to ensure that it is "quality time," if you only see your kid for a couple of months every other year, it is hard to be an effective parent. It is the only reason that he got out.... he didn't want to be "that dad" who had a four year old that he had only seen for a total of 6 months since he had been alive.

Can't say that I blame him, and I don't think that he is a pussy, crybaby, or whiner for making that decision or expressing his opinion. He enlisted, went to combat twice, and is now serving as a cop... in my book, he has earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants.

[PocketKings]

Service to one's family versus service to one's country; both involve oaths before God and are often in juxtoposition. The only zero sum game of it's kind. Often, you can do one well or both poorly.

[Pickpocket]

He raises good points, he just does a poor job of bringing it all together and telling us exactly what theme he is trying to illustrate.

That's what got him pegged in the first place. True, he does raise some good points...but he kept getting bogged down in aimless complaining. Some of his points are valid, some of his assumptions are based on his limited experience. He should have known how to separate the two, and acknowledge the assumptions for what they are. Failing to do so only weakens his argument...which is what happened here.

Service to one's family versus service to one's country; both involve oaths before God and are often in juxtoposition. The only zero sum game of it's kind. Often, you can do one well or both poorly.
I gave it a good 10 years, and Uncle Sugar got his money's worth out of me. I finally hung it up after OIF III because I realized that any hard-charging meat eater can kick in doors and shoot people in the face...but I'm the only one who can raise my kids.

I didn't leave because of the BS, or because of the reindeer games we play in garrison. Sure, that shit irritated me, but it's part of the game. My last CO - after a particularly frustrating staff meeting - said to me "The only thing you have to remember about the Corps is that you have to love it...or you're gonna fucking HATE it."

Yes, both the Corps and the Army (can't speak for Navy or Air Force) have big retention problems. But just as we're asking our respective services to be a little more in tune with what we want, let's be honest with ourselves about the reasons we're leaving. Some of this stuff has been going on for as long as there have been armies...it's unlikely to change now.

[PocketKings]

When I was in college we had a guest speaker. He just finished a tour commanding in the most high speed unit in the Army (one that he wouldn't acknowledge existed, but we all know is out there).

This high speed dude told us that the biggest lesson he learned was that 'the Army makes a terrible mistress.'

I didn't get it at the time, but I do now.

[VMI_Marine]

Many of the things he presents may be true, but the assumptions made are frustrating. Why can you not have a family and serve your country.

I don't recall him saying that. He does, however, highlight the difficulties for those who aren't familiar with them (i.e. the majority of the WaPo's readership). I find it interesting that you make assumptions about the strength of his relationship.

I'm in a similar situation - married less than a year, and during the few months my wife and I had together as a married couple, it was hard to focus on anything else except the upcoming deployment. Add to that our Block IV training, which was a month in Louisiana, and we got very little time together. My wife just commented to me a few minutes ago that sometimes she doesn't feel married - she feels almost like she has been house-sitting for 7 months. We were looking forward to enjoying some time together and actually making our house into a home over the next year, but the Marine Corps just sprung PCS orders on me for this fall - so much for that plan. I have the utmost faith in the strength of my marriage, but this turn of events (PCS orders) made me sit down and really question whether I wanted to continue with this career. CPT Rogers chose differently than I did, and wants to explain why. I hope the Army's leadership pays close attention to what he wrote, instead of dismissing him as a crybaby as some on here are quick to do.

I will not call him a crybaby, i have other words reserved for him, but you praise in public and bitch in private and he broke that code. what makes his story more important than that of thousands of other members serving daily, except that he wanted to be famous for awhile. Well you got it sir, now pack your trash and step off.

Is raising important issues that are adversely impacting the lives of his peers - who, as you have pointed our, are leaders responsible for the lives of others - really breaking the faith? Through the history of West Point, an average of about 28% of their graduates have not continued past their 5-year obligation. The Class of 2002 had more than twice that number opt out of the Army at 5 years. There are obviously some significant issues at work here. The good CPT did a less-than-great job of illustrating them, since he was really lacking a coherent theme and conclusion, but I think that several of the posts on this thread have leveled some undue criticism at his article.

Like mdb23 said, I think CPT Rogers has earned the right to say what he did, I just wish he had done a better job of it.

[MPCOA]

I think it is kind of hypocritical if you are knocking the CPT and you aren't a career military man; you got out so is he.

[SheJAG]

Having read the article several times and followed this thread to here, I have to agree that CPT Rogers isn't a crybaby or a whiner. He has put into the public domain very valid concerns of many service members. Perhaps this will be educational for the American public and American politicos.

He has articulated very well his decision making process to leave the Army. He has also indicated this is a common topic of conversation among Captains in his and similar year groups and that the retention issue is being discussed at "conferences" and in other forums.

As PocketKings stated above on the conflicting jobs of Soldier and Family Man, "you can do one well or both poorly". CPT Rogers is just choosing do do one job well. He wants to be a superior family man, not a superior military leader. It is his choice. It is for him a good choice. It is something that many others are and will be facing in the next few years.

Failure to address this issue in some fashion soon will lead to deficiencies in the leadership base of our future military forces. We are losing good men and women to the civilian sector because NO ONE wants to air what is perceived as dirty laundry and ask for the things that are necessary to fix the problem.

[Paranutz]

Your not referring to a recently promoted E-6 type, at the northern detachment, who has done nothing in the unit, and has the whole body of current SWC students looking for his blood when they return, are you:confused: :D
:mad: .........;) ya I know about him.....

As for the Capt. He has his opinion from his experience. He is not against the job here, just the politics involved....I thank his service.

[Spinner]

People go into and get out of the military for a lot of reasons. In the Captains case, he highlights some of the more pressing concerns for individuals who are opting out. It's not dirty laundry so much as airing some things out.

I wish SheJAG was correct in this being beneficial for civilians, both in leadership roles and the general public. My experience has been, if you haven't served, you simply won't get it.

I realized how huge the gulf between the military and civilians was when, shortly after returning from my deployment in '91, one of my brothers expressed shock that I actually earned a paycheck while I was in the Army. He thought the "volunteer" Army was just that, with no benefits other than the uniform I wore, the food I ate and the bed I slept in.

After I got out, I ran into one of said brothers friends from HS, who thought that because I left the Army before serving a full 20 years, I must have gotten kicked out or somehow screwed up in such a way that I could no longer serve.

Seriously, you can't win for losing when it comes to shedding some light on what it's like to serve in the military.

[rv808]

I am an Army JO right now, and while it can be very frustrating at times, it comes with the job.

A very wise SSG once told me, "Allot of what we do doesn't make sense, but it makes Army sense."

Flexibility, adapting and controlling only what I have control over is what keep me sane.

[The Corporate Guy]

His explanation seems pretty articulate, time-honored, well-reasoned and earned.

I'm more offended by someone who has not walked the walk calling him names.

[a45shooter]

Deployment has a way of infecting you with a bit of anger. Time tends to mitigate that. He's earned his right to speak his mind. I got no heart burn over the manner or content of his piece.

[Purple36]

There is a reason for the CPT CSRBs......although I personally don't think 35,000 before taxes is all that much! ;)

[0699]

I still don't see the reason for the letter. He is entitled to his opinions and reasons just like everyone else. But I don't see why he felt airing them in the Post was the thing to do. Does he really think it'll change anything?

[mrwill]

What soured his argument for me was the references to the money/opportunities for officers being such a draw, taking officers away from the Army. It came across (to me) rather unclassy, and I really don't think he is correct about that. If he had simply focused on the hardships that an endless string of deployments puts on a family or the dilemma any career Army Soldier, NCO or Officer go through when deciding to get out or not, it would have come off better, in my opinion. Given that, I also do concur that he has a heck of a lot more right to complain than those who have not walked the path he has.

As for the issue at hand, the stresses of the fight we are in now, it is indeed one that will change our military in a lot of ways in the long run. I am part of the West Point class of 2002 that VMI Marine is referring to. There has been a lot of press on the rather high exodus rate of officers from our class,due to several factors, including articles, 2 upcoming books and speeches from people to include GEN McCaffrey and others. While I think the 2002 class issue has been a little over-inflated, it is an important issue to note. I've talked with many of my classmates in reference to why they have left. Many of them seem to have chosen to leave for more ideological rasons rather than because of the hardships of deploying, at least according to them. (In my opinion, I think it's more realistically a 50%/50% mix) For those wondering, I am out as well, med boarded. I'm not trying to lay a "holier than thou" speech out here. I know before I had I was permanently injured, the stay in/get out dilemma was in my mind as well.

One of my fellow classmates framed it pretty well when I asked him why he chose to leave the service. He responded: "until our firstie (senior) year the Army and West Point was nothing more than a way to get an incredible leadership background and launch a great career. Then, 9/11 happened an hour away from us and everything changed for everyone in America. I thought I could make a huge difference, and was ready to dedicate a career to the Army instead of a few years. But instead of tracking down those responsible, we got sidetracked in a war that did not need to be fought, and tore us away from the whole reason the 'war on terror' was started. I lost friends and Soldiers that I once led, and became so numb to the pain that I just wanted to wake up from this bad dream that has no end in sight. I wanted to leave the pain behind, and that's why I am leaving that path behind."

Now, I know that probably stirs some argument to the reasoning he had, but it is a point of view I hear more and more from my USMA classmates. While I have my own view, which I will leave out to keep this on track, I sympathize with certain feelings of his, particularly the loss of friends/Soldiers and seeing others and sometimes yourself coming back changed forever. Although I had no choice in the matter, I wish I was still in, and I know other classmates who got out miss some, if not all of the Army.

Like I said before, this fight is not easy, and is made harder by losing friends, coming back changed forever, either in body or mind and by taking yourself away from your family, possibly forever. These issues, along with other hard ones challenge our resolve. That being said, I think that THAT is what this CPT should have focused on as a message to America. Either way, what is most important is what can be done about it.

[Greenhat]

I still don't see the reason for the letter. He is entitled to his opinions and reasons just like everyone else. But I don't see why he felt airing them in the Post was the thing to do. Does he really think it'll change anything?

Not likely... but you never know if you don't try.

[fkg_gorilla]

and felt the need to share his moral rationalization with everyone.
Thats what I think. He doesn't come across as a "crybaby". This looks like a sympathy letter, he gets none!

He did the right thing, he got out.

I would still have a beer with him, well, i would if i wasn't in Iraq.:p