Marauder
6 June 2001, 23:50
Just to show you boys and gals in polyester blue ( http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif) that you aren't alone in putting up with stupid perps and stupid perp family members. Thought you might find some solice in it.
June 5, 2001
History shows police are not trigger-happy
By MINDELLE JACOBS -- Edmonton Sun
Nineteen-year-old Denny Greene learned a memorable lesson in common sense last week. If you point a gun at police, don't be surprised if the cops shoot you.
Greene's father, who is considering whether to sue the RCMP over the incident, has raised a novel objection to the police response to his son's allegedly erratic behaviour. The gun wasn't loaded.
"I'm angry because how could they shoot a man when he has no bullets?" he asked Saturday during an interview with a Sun reporter.
Let's see. An allegedly drunk, suicidal man was wandering around the Samson Cree
Nation reserve with a shotgun Friday night and the Hobbema Mounties were supposed to
take his word for it that the weapon was empty?
And what if Greene had been lying?
What if he'd been so distraught over the recent suicide of his sister that he'd become
unhinged and decided to commit suicide by cop - shooting at the police until he was killed
in the return fire?
The fact that Green's shotgun was, indeed, empty is beside the point. No police officer is going to believe the protestations of a possibly unstable individual pointing a gun that the weapon's not loaded.
In fact, it's not even certain Greene did tell the RCMP his gun was empty. His father insists he did. The police say Greene didn't tell them until they shot the teenager in the waist.
Who said what when may eventually become clear, but it doesn't change the fact that the RCMP did nothing wrong. The police are right to be skeptical when an armed man claims he doesn't have any bullets. Are the police simply supposed to ignore a man waving a gun?
As for telling the police after they've shot you that you weren't really armed - a lot of good that does.
This isn't TV. The police aren't gun-happy in Canada. In the past decade, for instance,
there have only been two people shot and killed by the Edmonton city police. Asian drug gang heavy Long Duy (Crazy Jimmy) Hoang, 28, was killed by police in January 2000, after he shot at them following a high-speed chase. And John Pavic, 31, was shot by police at his home last month after he refused to drop a butcher knife and then lunged at an officer, cutting the cop's hand.
Two dead in a decade! And presumably there will be even fewer people shot by cops in
the future when the Edmonton Police Service begins using Taser stun guns on a regular
basis. The 21 Tasers the force ordered are expected to be here within the next two weeks.The RCMP may also add Tasers to their arsenal. The Mounties tested them out in six
communities (three in Alberta and three in B.C.) last year and High Level RCMP Staff Sgt. Peter Sherstan, who headed the pilot project, is in the process of writing a report on the project.
Later this year, the RCMP's clothing, equipment and design committee will determine
whether Tasers will be used on a permanent basis.
Tasers aren't always appropriate, mind you. They only have a range of six metres and they
don't always prevent people the police are trying to subdue from using a weapon, says
Sherstan. In the tests, some of the volunteers hit with the stun guns were still able to fire off guns (with blanks). Also, in some instances, the guns discharged because of the involuntary muscle contractions of the "bad guys" hit by the Tasers.
Despite the drawbacks, it's likely the RCMP will adopt the use of Tasers simply because it's better to subdue someone temporarily with 65,000 volts than to shoot them.
Greene is probably lucky to be alive. While police don't shoot to kill, they do aim for the torso because it's the easiest target and the best way to immobilize someone.
As he recovers, his family's efforts would be better directed towards getting him the help he needs instead of blaming the police.
The moral of the story? Samson Cree Nation councillor Dolphus Buffalo summed it up succinctly:
"If you're told to drop your gun, you drop it. The law is the law."
June 5, 2001
History shows police are not trigger-happy
By MINDELLE JACOBS -- Edmonton Sun
Nineteen-year-old Denny Greene learned a memorable lesson in common sense last week. If you point a gun at police, don't be surprised if the cops shoot you.
Greene's father, who is considering whether to sue the RCMP over the incident, has raised a novel objection to the police response to his son's allegedly erratic behaviour. The gun wasn't loaded.
"I'm angry because how could they shoot a man when he has no bullets?" he asked Saturday during an interview with a Sun reporter.
Let's see. An allegedly drunk, suicidal man was wandering around the Samson Cree
Nation reserve with a shotgun Friday night and the Hobbema Mounties were supposed to
take his word for it that the weapon was empty?
And what if Greene had been lying?
What if he'd been so distraught over the recent suicide of his sister that he'd become
unhinged and decided to commit suicide by cop - shooting at the police until he was killed
in the return fire?
The fact that Green's shotgun was, indeed, empty is beside the point. No police officer is going to believe the protestations of a possibly unstable individual pointing a gun that the weapon's not loaded.
In fact, it's not even certain Greene did tell the RCMP his gun was empty. His father insists he did. The police say Greene didn't tell them until they shot the teenager in the waist.
Who said what when may eventually become clear, but it doesn't change the fact that the RCMP did nothing wrong. The police are right to be skeptical when an armed man claims he doesn't have any bullets. Are the police simply supposed to ignore a man waving a gun?
As for telling the police after they've shot you that you weren't really armed - a lot of good that does.
This isn't TV. The police aren't gun-happy in Canada. In the past decade, for instance,
there have only been two people shot and killed by the Edmonton city police. Asian drug gang heavy Long Duy (Crazy Jimmy) Hoang, 28, was killed by police in January 2000, after he shot at them following a high-speed chase. And John Pavic, 31, was shot by police at his home last month after he refused to drop a butcher knife and then lunged at an officer, cutting the cop's hand.
Two dead in a decade! And presumably there will be even fewer people shot by cops in
the future when the Edmonton Police Service begins using Taser stun guns on a regular
basis. The 21 Tasers the force ordered are expected to be here within the next two weeks.The RCMP may also add Tasers to their arsenal. The Mounties tested them out in six
communities (three in Alberta and three in B.C.) last year and High Level RCMP Staff Sgt. Peter Sherstan, who headed the pilot project, is in the process of writing a report on the project.
Later this year, the RCMP's clothing, equipment and design committee will determine
whether Tasers will be used on a permanent basis.
Tasers aren't always appropriate, mind you. They only have a range of six metres and they
don't always prevent people the police are trying to subdue from using a weapon, says
Sherstan. In the tests, some of the volunteers hit with the stun guns were still able to fire off guns (with blanks). Also, in some instances, the guns discharged because of the involuntary muscle contractions of the "bad guys" hit by the Tasers.
Despite the drawbacks, it's likely the RCMP will adopt the use of Tasers simply because it's better to subdue someone temporarily with 65,000 volts than to shoot them.
Greene is probably lucky to be alive. While police don't shoot to kill, they do aim for the torso because it's the easiest target and the best way to immobilize someone.
As he recovers, his family's efforts would be better directed towards getting him the help he needs instead of blaming the police.
The moral of the story? Samson Cree Nation councillor Dolphus Buffalo summed it up succinctly:
"If you're told to drop your gun, you drop it. The law is the law."