Question for the Donut Eaters (LE Only)

[Ace]

(Yes, I titled that for you Sparky, LOL)

2 Part question.

Your off duty in civilian clothes, at a bar drinking. A fight starts between 2 patrons.

Q #1) What are you required to do?

Q #2) What are you permitted to do?

The above questions are with the understanding that you will be acting as an officer (I.E. identifying yourself as such)

[-Sparky-]

LMAO! Ace, you got me! Spot on! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

A #1: For a misdemeanor bar fight? I'm not required to do anything. Now if it turns into a felony, it could go either way. I have worked for a department where the policy was NOT to get involved OD, but to act as a good witness.

I have also worked for an agency who required you to keep your ID and weapon/handcuffs/radio accessible to you "at all times" and required you to step up if you were to witness a felony in your presence.

The latter policy is pretty lame. It just isn't practical for obvious reasons.

A#2 If I identify myself as a police officer, then I am acting under color of law. All "rules" would apply just as if I were on duty and all policies and procedures of my agency would also apply.

For a regular bar fight....I'd just sit back and watch the show and eat my donuts! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

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-Sparky
formerly known as SwatPup

[Sharky]

Finish your beer, get up and head for the door and the next bar.

PS: NEVER go out drinking with a firearm. I carry mine damn near all the time but when I'm out drinking it stays at home or in the car. Taking a gun in a bar is just asking for trouble and it will find you. No matter the circumstances, if you get in the shit in a bar with a weapon, it will get UGLY with your employer.

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F.I.D.O.

[This message has been edited by Sharky (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Ace]

Sharky,
Come on Bro, you know me better than that. I wouldn't take my gun in a bar. (the only place I don't have one with me, LOL)

I agree with the whole "sit back and watch" but around here it's the "if it's a felony, yadda, yadda, yadda..."

Maybe what I'm looking for is the answer to: Does an LEO still retain LE Authority after he's been drinking?

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If one's words are no better than silence, one should keep silent.

[-Sparky-]

Well, technically, he could always whip out the badge and arrest people as long as he is within his jurisdiction.

But he'd be a real idiot for taking any enforcement action after drinking off duty in a bar. I suppose if the situation didn't leave much choice, then fine. But it's get get the fine tooth comb, and the lawyers would probably have a field day with it.

So to answer your question, no, the law does not have a "unless you've been drinking provison", but if you are OD, then you are OD. and if you took any enforcement action, your judgement will be in question. You also may not be able to sign an affidavit of complaint. In most places, those that are intoxicated cannot swear to an affidavit because they are impaired.

This sure is kind of a weird question. You didn't get busted by an off duty po-po in a bar did you? Those donut comments aren't welcomed in all establishments y'know! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif


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-Sparky
formerly known as SwatPup

[Ace]

Originally posted by -Sparky-:
This sure is kind of a weird question. You didn't get busted by an off duty po-po in a bar did you? Those donut comments aren't welcomed in all establishments y'know!


LOL, No, I was the badge holder, and the people in question were one pregnant female and another guy, She takes a shot to the gut, so on, and so on. Afterwards, I heard one of the bartenders comment, "he's been drinking" (me) "he has no authority here". So I started asking around the Dep. and I was getting mixed answers. Figured I would toss it out to you guys.

[-Sparky-]

Well THAT'S another matter entirely.

NEVER go to a bar where they know you are the po-po! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Q: "what do you do for a living?"

A: "I'm in waste management."



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-Sparky
formerly known as SwatPup

[Sharky]

Originally posted by Ace:
Sharky,
Come on Bro, you know me better than that. I wouldn't take my gun in a bar. (the only place I don't have one with me, LOL)

I agree with the whole "sit back and watch" but around here it's the "if it's a felony, yadda, yadda, yadda..."

Maybe what I'm looking for is the answer to: Does an LEO still retain LE Authority after he's been drinking?



Ace....wasn't even thinking about you bro. I do know you better. It was just something I threw out there for all of us. A DEA probationer made the mistake here last year and got fired.



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F.I.D.O.

[Tracy]

Funny story about bars and fights:

Drive-by shooting in Inglewood, CA (South-Central); followed by long vehicle pursuit. 15 Adam Units in chase (Two-Officer Cars). OGs jump out and run into a bar.

Lead vehicle cops run to the doorway of bar; which is the OG's 'crib'. They ask point-blank if anyone saw the perps run into the bar. Response: "MF, were gonna f*ck you up, stuff your cojones in your mouth and mail you in pieces to the po-leece man downtown."

The other 28 Officers milling around outside, still pumped on adrenaline, and looking for something to do, overheard the 'conversation' through the door.

No Arrests, No Use-of-Force Reports, No Officers Down; but the bartender needed a squeegee to clean the blood off the floor and walls. The gang packed up and moved to the Bay Area shortly thereafter.

This was pre-Rodney King; the good ol' days...

[-Sparky-]

Yeah. I still got my beaver tail.

I'm gettin' all misty eyed.

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- Sparky ©2001 All rights reserved.

[Curtis Newkirk]

It's been a while since I've been home, but back in 91', while on leave, I took a job bounceing at a topless bar in Victoria Texas (needed a down payment on a car). A few of the local PD almost set up camp next to the stage. They were in about 5 nights a week (off duty). They were all required to carry. Not many of them tried to "conceal" it worth a damned. Never had any problems. They were some good guys.

Texas is famous for silly people with guns. There was a bar called the NightHawk open back in the 70's. A few Rangers (Texas, not Army) were drinking with a bunch of DPS officers. They got into a "my dicks bigger than yours" discussion, and ended up having a shooting contest behind the bar. The local PD responded, and ended the contest before the winner could be identified (no arrests).

I decided to edit this before anyone started screaming. They were not shooting at each other. They were shooting beer bottles.

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Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

[This message has been edited by Curtis Newkirk (edited 08-27-2001).]

[mdb23]

Well, if anyone is interested in this cops perspective, I would have to say that you NEVER TAKE YOUR WEAPON TO A BAR OR STRIP CLUB!!!!!! Bad ju-ju to say the least.

As far as intervening in the fight is concerned, I'm not going to do a damned thing unless someone is in the process of committing a felony.

Finally, avoid going to bars and clubs that are within your patrol district (leads to uncomfortable situations down the line).

mdb23

[Jeff Rambo]

Tracy,

I always enjoy reading your posts when you provide your perspective on the SoCal hoods, Chief. Classic.