Ohio State to put away mock rifles

[redman1982]

"ROTC puts fake rifles out of sight
Public's confusion leads to OSU training indoors or without mock M-16s
Friday, April 18, 2008 9:11 AM
By Bill Bush

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

JAMES D. DeCAMP | Dispatch
A switch from black mock M-16s to blue didn't help because the rifles were still too realistic in certain light, an ROTC leader said.


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Ohio State University's ROTC cadets have ended the decades-long practice of combat training with mock rifles on the main campus because of public edginess in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, officials said.

Since the decision was made a couple of weeks ago, tactical training with rubber replicas of an M-16 rifle has been moved indoors, or cadets have trained without rifles, said Navy Capt. Steven Noce, who heads the university's ROTC program.

The tactical training, typically conducted around the ROTC building near Ohio Stadium, has generated a few calls to police from concerned people in the past year, Noce said. A year ago this week, a gunman at Virginia Tech killed 32 people.

"We just don't want any more public concern, and we're just trying to figure out a better way to do business," Noce said, noting that OSU had not asked for the change.

Officials initially responded to concerns by changing the mock rifles -- which the ROTC calls "rubber ducks" -- from black to blue, and they might eventually be made orange, Noce said. The blue ones were still too realistic in certain light, he said.

"It scared people because they didn't quite understand what (the cadets) were doing," Noce said. "They look like a real rifle. When you see these rifles, you think they're the real deal."

Although the mock guns have been eliminated from outdoor tactical training, which simulates combat situations, the ROTC will drill with the guns on campus, officials said.

"Those kids have been drilling with those things for decades," said Charles Smith, a political-science academic adviser who heard about the decision from an ROTC student he knows. "They were making them point their fingers, and apparently one picked up a stick."

Because the ROTC students train in battle-dress uniforms, "it's real obvious who these people are," Smith said.

ROTC cadet Andrew Roush, 22, said he has seen double takes when he's carrying the rubber duck, but he doesn't think the mock guns have ever caused a panic.

"They'll give that look over their shoulder that they noticed you," said Roush, a criminology major from Urbana. "I've never seen anybody alarmed.

"They're an important tool. I think they enhance the training, but without them, the training can still go on."

A lot of the people who come onto campus aren't students and have no idea what ROTC is, said cadet Robin Tullercash, 25, of New Hampshire.

"If people feel unsafe, then we should do everything in our power to make them feel safe," said Tullercash, a language major studying Arabic who plans a career in military intelligence. "Seeing a bunch of people with weapons, I can understand that they'd be scared."

OSU Police Chief Paul Denton said none of the public concerns over the training had been brought to his attention, but those concerns didn't surprise him: Sometimes the training for his officers generates calls asking what's going on, he said.

The program will decide in the next few weeks where the on-campus, outdoor training should be held, Noce said. One option is to solely use university agricultural land west of Rt. 315 and north of Lane Avenue.

bbush@dispatch.com"

Very sad. These are the "good guys." We wouldn't want to offend anyone while carrying ou the mission, would we?

[KS11]

I think we should just ban the word "gun". Guns are scary and even saying the word causes some people to feel apprehensive. They can just be called "whargarbls".

[Alex F]

The pussification of our society continues.

[Longrifle]

I think it's a step in the right direction. Get rid of all the "fake" rifles, and bring back the M1.

Only the best leaders have experienced M1 thumb. It instills "attention to detail." :D

[SIG 229]

The pussification of our society continues.


Amen to that!

We trained with Rubber Ducks at Western Michigan University. The only problem we ever had, that I'm aware of, was when a fellow cadet had received approval from the CO, as well as a professor, for a class speech, on the care and maintenance of the M-16 Assault Rifle. Said Cadet placed said Rubber Duck rifle in a duffle bag, was riding his bike from the ROTC HQ up the road to his class. WMU PD comes along and spots the butt stock sticking out of the bag. Cadet is ordered off the bike, proned out on the road and detained by the PD. A few quick calls to Ltc. X , cleared up the situation quite quickly. IIRC Cadet was then given a ride to class, escorted into the building, given an escort out and ride back to HQ following his presentation...just to make sure there were no panic alarms pressed. PD, cadet, CO, etc. all handled it very coolly.

[Brianj]

A Navy captain is speaking on behalf of "cadets" in what sounds to be an Army ROTC program? Or maybe this is something the Marine Option knuckleheads do these days...

We had a few M-1's with cement in the barrels in NROTC at Arizona. And we looked stupid carrying those.

[Husker19D30]

Seriously? They're all in uniform, they all have rifles (and fake ones at that), it should be obvious to an observer that it's an organized function, and STILL people are making concerned calls to the authorities?

WTF is wrong with people? Fucking hippies...

[Dumpsterchair]

The students probably do not think the cadets are the perps, they probably think the cadets are the SWAT team that has been deployed to take out a campus shooter. From that angle, I can see where they are coming from. Is a college campus really the best place to conduct this type of training? I never ran around NAS Whidbey Island in a bomb suit, can you imagine the panic that would create. We went out to the woods to train. Can't ROTC do the same?

[Richman]

OSU Police Chief Paul Denton said none of the public concerns over the training had been brought to his attention....

Then who the hell is getting the complaints of concern? Sounds like a red herring to me. Someone is bitching to the campus leaders because they don't like the military maybe? Because is sure doesn't sound like someone was scared and called the police....

[sawbones]

Alot of the local public land they used for training has been bought up. Highway expansion projects, new condos, housing developments, that kinda shit. There reilly isnt that many places close to train. Main campus would be a great place to do urban training, but with all the fuckstick hippy liberals thats a no go.

Just another sign that westcoast/eastcost liberal fucksticks are invading midwest communities.

[Drew]

Yup, as an MS IV back in 2003 I had the campus police get called out to one of our STX lanes (Uniform- BDUs, LBE, and ducks). Fortunately I went to high school with one of the officers and training quickly resumed.

[P38]

The NROTC Commander is an O-6 vs. the Army ROTC Commander being an O-5. He may be the senior officer in Converse Hall (the ROTC building) but I can't see how he would have any say over the Army ROTC training - if this article applies to the Army. The Army cadet command would have something to say about it. The Army commander is an Infantry LTC and I can't imagine him just rolling over on this.

The quote makes me think it's a self incurred shot in the foot by the NROTC Captain: "We just don't want any more public concern, and we're just trying to figure out a better way to do business," Noce said, noting that OSU had not asked for the change.

I was in ROTC at OSU in the early 80's. There wasn't any worthwhile real estate around the campus for any kind of tactical training beyond squad and fire team walk through exercises. Any significant tactical training was always conducted out in the countryside.

The people who did have weapons on a regular basis and openly visible were the drill teams with inoperative Springfield rifles. Back then we didn't even have rubber rifles. We always used real M-16's and M-60's that were checked out of a local National Guard armory.

Given the size of OSU it would be expected that there would be a small but vocal anti-military presence. But, since the ROTC building is on the far edge of the campus near the football stadium 95% of the student population never even walked by it, let alone during training. I think that someone is grossly over reacting.

[B 2/75]

Hell, my JUNIOR ROTC (as in High School) department had M-14's.... no plugged barrels, no welded receivers... and we got to go shoot them, too ;)


Now there's a REAL cadet's gun... LOL

[Brianj]

Liberal fuckstickism thrives on college campuses for good reason. Mostly it's just kids trying to feel grown up and independent, by taking a stand against what they perceive to be the status quo or whatever their parents believed. The majority tend to grow out of the sillyness once they graduate, get jobs, pay taxes, buy houses, and have kids - all the real adult shit that so magically prompts a more responsible view of the world. Unfortunately, a certain percentage of those kids find a way to both stay at school and never have to grow up, and become faculty.

The same group that wanted to ban ROTC at Arizona were protesting overflight of the campus by A-10's into Davis Monthan AFB because it "militarized" their peaceful, non-threatening learning environement.

Still, I can understand some concern if every Wednesday afternoon a squad of kay-dets is taking over the gym shouting "hut-hut-hut"...

[CA SGT]

Local newspaper assistant editor, recently stated in an article that guns "scared" her and when she even saw one, even on a police officer, she wanted to run away. Maybe she could run to the bad guys who just use knives....Yeah its a terrible rag of a newspaper but by no means a minority in this country in its views.

[redhawk]

A few weeks after the VT shooting the Marine NROTC platoon here was going on a rifle run. When they split, my friend, who happens to be Filipino, got separated from his fireteam in the running trails. So, this young Asian kid is running around the countryside with a M1 Garand at 0600 wearing cammies. 15 minutes later he came around a corner and a SWAT team was pointing shotguns in his face.

The problem isn't ROTC, it's the braindead public and their inability to recognize ROTC.

[Whitebean54]

The problem isn't ROTC, it's the braindead public and their inability to recognize ROTC.

DING DING DING!!!!

[Scratchy]

I think we should just ban the word "gun". Guns are scary and even saying the word causes some people to feel apprehensive. They can just be called "whargarbls".



whargarbl! whargarbl! whargarbl!!! hahahaha

[t10Guy]

The problem isn't ROTC, it's the braindead public and their inability to recognize ROTC.

Roger that. THEY ARE WEARING F"N UNIFORMS!. this is nuts. Now I will say I came out of a restuarant in like 1999 and had a couple of uniformed partolmen put me up against a wall and take my weapon. Why?
Sitting there eating dinner and my shirt (hanging over my pancake holster) crept up an exposed a piece of the holster and weapon.

Well they called it in, and as I left there were 3 cars waiting.

Told them I was an officer, they still secured my weapon and checked my ID, then gave it back. But it plays to the idea that most of the sheeple today see a weapon and are freaked out... Someone needs to stand up and tell these people to get over it.

[SOTB]

When they split, my friend, who happens to be Filipino, got separated from his fireteam in the running trails. So, this young Asian kid is running around the countryside with a M1 Garand at 0600 wearing cammies. 15 minutes later he came around a corner and a SWAT team was pointing shotguns in his face.Sucks to be a run drop, huh?

[MPCOA]

A few weeks after the VT shooting the Marine NROTC platoon here was going on a rifle run. When they split, my friend, who happens to be Filipino, got separated from his fireteam in the running trails. So, this young Asian kid is running around the countryside with a M1 Garand at 0600 wearing cammies. 15 minutes later he came around a corner and a SWAT team was pointing shotguns in his face.

The problem isn't ROTC, it's the braindead public and their inability to recognize ROTC.

A. Don't fall out on the run

B. I think that SWAT showing up in 15 min is near impossible, so I would guess this is an exaggeration.

[Whitebean54]

I don't understand what the deal is? I was in a coffee shop yesterday and two detectives walked in with pistols on their hips. The girl across from me saw it first and started freaking out....I looked up saw them and told her they were cops(I knew both of them personally) and she was still unnerved. For F*&k Sakes they had on Campus PD shirts and had badges around their necks!!!!

[grog18b]

Perhaps we should replace the stars on the flag with 50 little pussies?

These are the stories that make me just shake my head... The election of either of the democratic candidates will only make it worse... Much worse...

[Bravo Five Romeo]

The problem isn't ROTC, it's the braindead public and their inability to recognize ROTC.
In their defense, the ROTC were using the dummy weapons for tactical training, not drill and ceremony.

A college kid walking by seeing a bunch of other kids his age in formation wearing BDUs with rifles at shoulder arms is going to recognize it as the ROTC drilling.

That same college kid walking along campus and seeing a kid his age wearing BDUs, hiding in the bushes with what appears to be a real rifle, might not recognize it as ROTC.

[KidA]

I don't understand what the deal is? I was in a coffee shop yesterday and two detectives walked in with pistols on their hips. The girl across from me saw it first and started freaking out....I looked up saw them and told her they were cops(I knew both of them personally) and she was still unnerved. For F*&k Sakes they had on Campus PD shirts and had badges around their necks!!!!


Too bad you couldn't grab her by the hair and throat punch her for being stupid.

We're being turned into a nation of faggots, and I don't necessarily mean that everyone is going to want to choke themselves on huge dicks, but I can see people prancing around in tight V-neck t-shirts, skinny black jeans and wearing glitter eyeshadow and saying OMG! OMG! a lot. And that's the dudes.