CS, flamable?

[Jesse]

I recently read a post on HKPRO about a fire being started by a tear gas grenade. I'm not sure what kind, but this just sounds like something that shouldn't be. So, is it?

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When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

-Jesse Foust

[Huey One Four]

Yep, they can cause fires, as evidenced at Waco. Landed on straw which started the infamous fireball if I'm not mistaken. Not sure why they do though, maybe someone who knows what their talking about can help you there.

RH
(Not an expert)


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"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci (1452 - 1519)

[-Sparky-]

That wasn't the only things starting fires at Waco.

and yeah...some gas cannisters will get hot and throw sparks. Depends on how it's made and stuff.

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- Sparky ©2001 All rights reserved.

[RECON5]

According to the FBI (snicker) that was not the cause of the fire in Waco.......

Now, being in Waco at the time and seeing the fire....I have a hard time believing the FBI, or anyone else started that particular fire with CS Grenades. I will not get on my soap box though.....

Yes it is true there are CS grenades that are capable of causing a fire. Most Teams who use this type of device will have a team member or perimeter person assigned as the "fireman" to take care of any hot spots. The same as most will do if they use diversionary devices, such as flash bangs or concusion grenades of a similar type. The risk however minimal still exist. The risk of fire is not caused by the CS gas itself. The fire comes from incindiary charge used to expel the gas.

There are numerous other options currently available that the majority of Police Departments are using due to decreased liability, such as OC Foggers (like the home roach foggers), and the variety of 37mm projectiles containing OC and CS.

Just my .02 worth......


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REMEMBER 1*

[This message has been edited by RECON5 (edited 09-06-2001).]

[Huey One Four]

I stand corrected.

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"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci (1452 - 1519)

[HmtPD2]

Flashbangs routinely catch the carpet on fire. When CS granades ignite, there is a spark, and that somtines does it. They also get REALLY HOT.

[LRSC Grunt]

I have heard a story about an LEO in NY that litterally douced a dude soaking wet with mace from waiste up. Then he zapped him with a tazer, setting him on fire accidentally. I was told that ever since then, mace is now water based rather than alchohol based.

Any truth to this story?

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Anyone ever play with powdered CS? There are a couple cool things to do to your buddies on the next training exercise if you haven't.

One is take the little sticker off the bottom of a smoke canister, fill the cavity there with the powdered CS, put the sticker back on and presto,instant CS grenade. The other is for trip wire flash bangs.Take a zip-lock bag, fill it with the CS powder,insert the flash bang,run the trip wire across the trail, up the tree and hang it in the leaves overhead, when it goes off the victim is covered. Works well in Sniper training. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif
Caution!!! These are not the full power flash bangs LE uses and always make sure it is hung high enough not to injure anyone!

More fun than anybody should have!

Semper Fi Sniperone

Almost forgot, always wear your mask while preparing these training aids! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by USMCSNIPERONE (edited 09-06-2001).]

[RECON5]

Originally posted by USMCSNIPERONE:
Anyone ever play with powdered CS? There are a couple cool things to do to your buddies on the next training exercise if you haven't.]

That is why we were always careful when training with the Military guys. The shit they can think of..........LOL. Our supervisor was very found of the Gas Option. He acquired this fetish as a Command Sgt. Major in the Army National Guard. We learned lots of neat tricks with CS, and OC from the Spec. Ops. Detachment, and Active guys we trained with at Hood & Swift.

Huey One Four: Rumors spread real quick, and it is hard to believe what you hear on the news. I just try to dispel the ones I have personal knowledge on. I tend to get on the box with that subject because I worked with a lot of good folks during that ordeal. I saw the public perception and how they treated all LE. It was not a pleasant site to see 8-10 yoa kids taughted by thier parents spitting on Federal Agents and screaming obscenaties at them, while the Agents maitained the barricade like true professionals. I apologize if it came off with a retaliatory tone.

LRSC Grunt : Heard the same story...Wondered myself how factual it really was...

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[c130streamer]

I had a platoon, SFC Tenario A 6ft 4 230lbs crazy man from Guam who wasnt bothered by C.S at all.Once on a very chilly morning in a patrol base somebody fell asleep on guard duty so he wook everybody up by holding a C.S canister in everyones fart sack, waking up to C.S and jumping out of your bag was not a pleasent experiance LOL

[wolf 129]

Another trick is to take the filters out fo your mask and collect the powdered CS that collects in them. You can use this powder on pillow cases, jock straps, bath towels, sweatbands on hats, the interior of gloves...you get the idea.

Sprinkling it on toliet paper in another fun idea.

-Wolf

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"One of the inescapable encumbrances
of leading an interesting life is that
there have to be moments when you
almost lose it." -Jimmy Buffett

[-Sparky-]

In an envolope, don't fold the flap closed, position with open side toward driver above sun visor.

When they flip the visor down...instant CS shower....

Also works with baby powder.

or spritz the seat in the summer, let dry. When the work up a nice sweaty ass, it picks up the CS or OC. Nice, subtle, slow effect on this one. They have to go change their pants!

or spritz a little in the A/C vents....get's hot, they turn on the A/C....whew! what's that!

If you share a flashlight in the car, put a light coat on the flashlight.

If you run in to get some gut burgers, you can spritz some on his burger! VERY MEAN! Use ONLY as retaliation!

Now some agencies have the pepper balls that work like paintball guns.....TEE HEE HEE!

DRIVE BY!

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- Sparky ©2001 All rights reserved.

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by wolf 129:
Another trick is to take the filters out fo your mask and collect the powdered CS that collects in them. You can use this powder on pillow cases, jock straps, bath towels, sweatbands on hats, the interior of gloves...you get the idea.

Sprinkling it on toliet paper in another fun idea.

-Wolf



Ahhhhh, youth.

http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif

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"Don't let 'em piss on your leg and tell you it's raining."

[LRSC Grunt]

Or sprinkle some inside their kevlar helmet when they set it down.

"Why are you crying dude?" http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

[jnc36rcpd]

You see, here's the problem: we issue you people equipment and you immediately start thinking of ways to abuse it.

LSRC, there is some basis to the story you heard. NYPD's Emergency Service Unit responded to deal with a mentally ill juvenile who had armed himself with a knife and gone barricade in a closet. The officers were able to partially open the door and deployed a streamer OC (I don't recall what brand). The OC was sprayed pretty heavily. It had little effect on the suspect, but soaked his shirt.

ESU then went to plan B which entailed popping the door open and deploying a Taser. The Taser darts landed on the OC-soaked shirt. Sparking ignited the shirt causing a flashfire. The fire encouraged the subject to surrender ("When negotiations fail....") He was not badly injured.

I should point out that this was a fairly unique set of circumstances. In most circumstances, a Taser can be deployed following OC deployment. You also do not have to worry about immolating a suspect smoking a cigarette when you spray him or setting the house on ablaze if there's a fire in the fireplace. While alcohol-based carriers are flammable, they are no more dangerous than many other products that we routinely use around electricity or open flames.

Alcohol-based carriers often atomize very nicely, increasing the effectiveness of the OC. Nonetheless, there are also manufacturers who produce quality OC products with non-flammable carriers.

Be safe and keep the wind at your back.

[Huey One Four]

Recon: I didnt take it like that, I just meant that I was wrong and I accept that. If I cant learn from my own mistakes, I cant make myself better. As for my info: I got it from a book by a Brit SAS guy who was there as an observer (Gaz Hunter, "The Shooting Gallery"). I did not mean to offend you, but if I did I trully am sorry.

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"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci (1452 - 1519)

[RogueExec]

Originally posted by Huey One Four:
I got it from a book by a Brit SAS guy who was there as an observer


Jeez...........what were all these outsiders doin' there, RECON? SAS had no business bein' there. Of course, neither did BATF, for that matter.....LMFAO!



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"Don't let 'em piss on your leg and tell you it's raining."

[RECON5]

Originally posted by RogueExec:
Jeez...........what were all these outsiders doin' there, RECON?


Well, Rogue as you know there were alot of
"observer's", who have full deniability at that incident. The time spent on that mission allowed for flight time from just about anywhere in the world. There were rumors of "observer's" there from every agency imaginable from Delta to No Such Agency (LOL), but I had never heard of SAS being there. That doesn't mean they weren't, just never heard that one before.

Huey, no offense taken brother. Run'em by if I know I will tell ya, if I don't ... SAS...
hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm, I will say so.



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