Quick reminder!!!!!!!!!

[Sharky]

Sitting here before leaving for work and looking at two small S&W handcuff keys I took off of a maggot a few days ago. Both were concealed in his pants. One front, One rear. His $2.00 imitation spyderco was concealed in his crotch area. BE ALERT for those little keys, guys. A search incident to arrest is different than a Terry frisk. Don't halfass your search! If you have to, flexcuff the bastards handcuffs to the cage where you can see them and he cant use them. Seeing those keys just gave me a chill, and I had to say something.

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F.I.D.O.

[Ace]

Going to work today with the SO, first time since 9/11. Thanks Bro, put me back in the right mind set.

RLTW-ATW



[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 11-10-2001).]

[DCH]

Ingrained Permanently sir.

Thanks.

[okami]

good reminder for all of us, also keep in mind does of us that dont have "cages" in our rides, double lock in the back and strap that seat belt on the mopes, also have your partner ride in the back.

stay safe out there

[Sharky]

Funny that I got this less than 24 hours after the first post. It's from Calibrepress.


Last week, identical twin brothers in Colorado were sentenced to
life-in-prison without parole, plus 846 years, for the murder of a Fremont
County sheriff's deputy and the attempted murder of 18 officers who
assisted in capturing them. The deputy's wife and officers in the area,
which is home to a large segment of Colorado's prison system, had hoped
for the death penalty.

Michael and Joel Stovall, 24, pleaded guilty to felony murder,
first-degree attempted murder and aggravated robbery last week.

On Friday, Sept. 28, they shot and killed deputy Jason Schwartz, 26, and
shot Florence Police Cpl. Toby Bethel, 32, hitting him near his spine and
paralyzing him from the waist down.

"They still deserve in my eyes, and in my husband's eyes, to have the
death penalty pursued," said Schwartz's wife, as she left the courtroom.
"They cold-bloodedly shot my husband without provocation."

Schwartz and Deputy Tony Esquibel had arrested the twin brothers for
allegedly shooting a neighbor's dog 8 times near their grandmother's house
in Penrose, 90 miles south of Denver, and dumping its body into the
Arkansas River.

While Schwartz was transporting them to the jail, Michael Stovall
apparently freed himself with a hidden handcuff key, prompting Schwartz to
radio the dispatcher that one of the brothers had escaped from the
handcuffs -- that was the last message heard from the deputy.

Joel Stovall later told police that his brother Michael had the key and
two guns on him at the time of the arrest. It seems that he pulled out a
9mm pistol, shot out the right rear window of the car, leaned through it,
and pointed his gun at Schwartz while ordering him to stop the car.
Officer Schwartz reportedly reached for his firearm, and Michael shot
several times through the right front passenger window striking Schwartz
in the head.

The brothers then fled to a trailer park in Florence, and entered a mobile
home where they armed themselves with high-powered rifles and pistols.
Later, they stole a neighbor's truck at gunpoint, and shot at Florence
police officers Toby Bethel and Eric Baker as they patrolled the area,
critically wounding Bethel. And to fuel the fire, the gunman later
returned to taunt the paramedics that were treating the wounded officer,
according to a police spokesman.

As a chase ensued, they led authorities on a pursuit through the
predominantly rural area covering ground through Florence, Canon City and
Salida. One of the brothers reportedly drove the vehicle while the other
fired at officers from the bed of the truck, striking Fremont County
Sheriff's Deputy Wes Orosco in the arm.

After running over road spikes that had been deployed, the brothers
abandoned the stolen truck and began hiking through the mountains.
According to one brother's confession to police, the pair considered
heading toward Mexico and confiscating a police car to get past blockades.
The 24-hour manhunt ended when they were captured by authorities from the
State Parks Department and the Division of Wildlife in Salida. Apparently,
the two finally gave up peacefully at a roadblock.

After their capture and arrest, police searched the brothers' home and
found several guns, knives, and possible ingredients for the making of a
bomb. Although the twins had no criminal record as adults, they did try to
burn down their high school in 1993 when they were sophomores.

LEARNING FROM TRAGEDY

As we mourn the loss of a brother (as well as the injuries of others), we
must realize that lessons can be learned from tragedy. This incident in
particular reminds us that it is important to SEARCH, SEARCH and SEARCH
each suspect regardless of how harmless he appears, or how minor the
infraction. Even though the two men in this case had no adult criminal
record, any suspect whose offense is so great to place him under arrest
and in the rear of your police car must be searched thoroughly.

It is common to tie up one transport unit on multiple arrests (especially
is jurisdictions with small departments and limited manpower), says Dave
Smith, Calibre Press general manager. Regardless, ALL officers involved in
the arrest should make sure complete searches are done. You want to avoid
ANY confusion as to who completed the custodial search of the suspect --
"a complete search of the arrestee versus a frisk, which is a cursory pat
down."

Smith urges officers to use the PLUS-ONE RULE every time a search is
conducted. This means that you add "one" to the number of weapons, drugs,
etc., that you find on a suspect. In other words, if you find one weapon,
don't give up searching, thinking you've discovered all the dangers;
instead officers should ASSUME if one's been found, there's probably
another. Remember, Joel Stovall later told police that his brother had two
semi-automatics and a handcuff key on him at the time of arrest.




------------------
F.I.D.O.

[para325air]

Got to look for the key attached to the inside of the belt or lip of the pants. Check that small little pocket above the right pants pocket. Make sure the lock faces up, double lock the them cuffs, and palms facing out. Makes it a bitch to get at if you have a key.

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Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

[TXSWAT]

fellow officer detained a guy a few months ago involved in a physical disturbance. handcuffed him and put him in the back of a unit after pat-down. I arrived and saw the subject knocking on the window of the unit with no handcuffs on.

Later, the subject gave a little advise to us cops about how we should have suspects open their mouths and check inside for hidden keys. that is where his was. how he had time or preparation to think of that is as weird as thinking that he keeps it there regularly in case of just a situation.

_______________________

Some call us paranoid, I call it going home. If it can be imagined, it's probably been done before.

[para325air]

The best I ran across was a buddy in the AF who picked this woman up on post and was filing his report. Across the desk he kept noticing that she was playing with herself. When he finally told her to stop, she came up with a derringer. Surprise. Now, not being a LEO, how do you check for that?

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Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

[Curtis Newkirk]

Cover me, I'm going in.

------------------
Nuck
"Defensor Brewus"
Defender of the beer

[grrlcop74]

A quick pat with the back of your hand and a witness if it all possible should take care of it. Do not be afraid to search someone of the opposite sex!! Just as the old saying goes "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6", it's also better for the dumb bitch to cry rape than it is to be shot because you were hesitant to perform a proper search without a witness or female officer. God knows I'd rather search a male than a female (and not for my usual reasons). Most of the females I've had the displeasure of searching haven't had the best of personal hygiene. Crack whores just have a certain funk about 'em, ya know? LOL

Kristen

[Tracy]

A very common escape and evasion technique we used was sewing our escape kit, including the handcuff key, into the bottom seam of our shirts in the back center. Not one police officer or bad guy EVER searched me there. With our hands bound behind us, that puts the escape kit literally in our hands. All we do is punch the pieces through the cloth and go to work.

Cuffing with the palms out helps a little, unless you pair me up with someone else and we work together. Palms out with hinged cuffs was always a double-team effort to break loose.

We preferred flex cuffs because the 'key' is a pair of bandage scissors. Whenever I bagged someone, male or female, they got groped; especially wherever their hands wind up after cuffing. Thoroughly.

How come most y'all search then cuff?

[mdb23]

Originally posted by Tracy:

How come most y'all search then cuff?



We don't, do we? It has always been my philosophy that, if I have enough of a reason to pat you down, then I have enough of a reason to slap on the gotchas.

I am an even stronger advocate of this theory after last night. My partner and I go on a prowlers call, find a guy matching the description walking from the area, and perform a ped check in regard. The first thing I did was slap on a pair of gotchas, and proceeded to pat him down. Afterward, I sat him on the ground. I noticed that he kept squirming like he was in pain, so I get him up and look a little more closely. I found the blade of a butcher knife to be in his pants. The blade was running along the outside of his thigh (inside of the jeans), and was completely obscured by the seam of his jeans. I had completely missed it on the pat down.

Moral(s) of the story:

1) Always slap on cuffs. As an old instructor said, they can always come off if you were wrong.

2) Alwys put the suspect at a position of disadvantage. Have them sit on the ground, or place them in the back of a locked (caged vehicle).

These two things saved my butt. Even though I missed the blade, the suspect (due to being cuffed and seated) could not have possibly reached it and caused a "problem". Had he not been cuffed and seated, well...........

Take care, I don't ever want to read that one of you guys have been hurt.

mdb23

[okami]

Also, if you are putting the bad guy in your car, I suggest you re search. I learned this when I arrived at the MDC and the BOP guys called me in and showed me a small swiss army knife and a 10 bag of weed. search those oversized pockets bad guys tend to wear real good. stuff can "hide" in the folds.

[para325air]

Originally posted by grrlcop74:
A quick pat with the back of your hand....

Kristen

K, that wouldn't have found it. That technique was preformed....if you get my drift.

------------------
Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

[Watsy]

I agree it's just as awkward...for a female
officer to pat down a guy but you know he thinks that's the "safest" place to hide weapons and drugs...YOU have to search...
Watsy

------------------
Take calculated risks.
That is quite different from being rash.
George S. Patton

[grrlcop74]

Para, if she had those kinds of skills he shouldn't have arrested her, he should have taken that show on the road!!

It just shows that no matter how well you THINK you searched, keep an eye on them and watch for excessive movement. They could always have something up their....sleeve.

Kristen

[jnc36rcpd]

In an arrest situation, we handcuff and then search. This procedure is often followed during Terry stops, espcially the higher risk ones. Those searched without being handcuffed tend to have consented to the search or part of a group being patted down during an investigative stop.

Oddly enough, the detention center removes handcuffs from incoming prisoners before conducting a wall search.

Be safe.

[Sapper12B]

mdb,

You remember hearing about that female at HQ Detention that was a station transfer (was in custody for 5 hours, couldn't post bond, sent to HQ), she had a full size 9mm under her left 48DDD breast? Like grlcop says, most chicks we come in contact with are nastier than a tuna can in a dumpster in the middle of July.

[mdb23]

Sapper12B,

Can't say that I remember that one, though I don't doubt it one bit. I do, however, remember an arrest who was transported by wagon to CPD and, upon having the wagon door opened in the sally port, jumped out armed with a handgun. Luckily, he made a run for it rather than shooting up the place.

There is definately some wacky sh*t that goes on in this town.

mdb23



[This message has been edited by mdb23 (edited 11-15-2001).]

[Sapper12B]

mdb,

Who the f*** was the wagon drver on that one?

[MrPotatoHead]

Originally posted by Tracy:

How come most y'all search then cuff?



I ask the same thing of the folks I work with on a regular basis. No one has ever come up with a decent answer unless it's a consent search. Never made much sense to me either.

[MF]

"Who the f*** was the wagon drver on that one?"
Sapper12B,

The wagon driver had a reputation as being a f**k up before that incident. He has managed to keep his reputation intact since. I've seen him around, but don't know him. Email me off line if you really want his name.
Email: msf@yahoo.com

Mark

[mdb23]

Sapper12B,

Sorry for the delay in replying.....I must have missed your last post. I concur with MF on all accounts, and can also provide his name via email if you still wish to know.

--On a lighter note-- If we get any more KC cops this board, I think we should demand our own forum!


mdb23



[This message has been edited by mdb23 (edited 11-20-2001).]

[Sharky]

Originally posted by mdb23:
If we get any more KC cops this board, I think we should demand our own forum! mdb23


http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/rolleyes.gif



------------------
F.I.D.O.

[Sapper12B]

Thanks Shark, still waitin' to hear from the skygods here.

mdb, shot out

[Sapper12B]

mdb,

Who is the fem off. that got shot yesterday?

[mdb23]

Sapper12B,

You should have received three emails from me ----one has the female officer's name, another has the name of the wagon driver, and yet another has the name of the other individual you were inquiring about.

mdb23

[Augie]

Sharky I was thinking of you the other night. Don't worry Sharky I was still dressed. I got a Chinese guy No Docs. (undocumented Alien). when we caught him he asked for Asylum here in the good old USA. Same crap human rights.... anyway he had this small bandage on his hand, he said in English that he had hurt it. Well I decided to check out the wound and what do you know the bandage was covering a Chinese street gang tattoo.

After a Long, Long interrogation hmm.. interview with a Chinese speaker and us he admitted in a sworn statement to being recently released from a Chinese prison after serving a 71/2 year sentance out of 12 for robbery. I'm sure (I know) there is a lot more to it.

Due to the lack of jail space most of these asylum guys are released by detention in two or three weeks with a promise to show for their hearing. Well, not our friend. His dumb ass will sit in jail until the judge kicks him out.

[ToneLoc3/144]

Augie,

Every once and a while we get those scumbags down here too. The good thing is that we don't have to deal with the asylum thing, we just put em in the corralon and let a judge deal with it.

Just spent last night dealing with some Oaxacan/Guatamalan jackasses that wouldn't break until I put the cuffs on to take them back to camp. I hate those guys.

Tone

[Augie]

ToneLoc, Well, Asylum is a Pain in the Ass. Every other Jackass wants it. But when we tell them were still locking them up about half change their minds. On the other hand, I don't have to live in occuppied America, we don't get 500 a night, I don't have to go out in the bush at 2am to get them either, No Rocks and I get only about one or two thugs a week.

I spoke with detention today to make sure he stays right where he is until his hearing. Lately I've had to lock a few up over night to get them to break. This lack of detention space is the worst thing.

Be Safe

Augie

[Sharky]

We got 2 Chinese tonight ourselves. I was working the riverbed on foot and saw them with the NVG's sneaking up to our levy. I walked up behind them on our levy thinking they were Mexicans. As soon as I recognized the fact that they didn't speak Spanish I turned on the flashlight to see what I had and then, being the nice guy that I am, gave them the opportunity to run away back to Mexico, which they did, only to come back two hours later and get picked up by the Bike Patrol......hahahahahaha. When I left the station, the bikers were still doing paperwork after five hours and were nowhere near finished. You catch em....You clean em......hahahahah.

[Augie]

That's the way to do it Sharky. The Self removal is the best. See when you look for work it finds you.
The papper work for the Asylum is a Huge undertakeing just for one guy. Hell just camping someone is a pain. I do 5 to 10 week so, I have it streamlined some. A simple NTA (Notice To Appear) takes me hours because, I don't do them that often.:D

Be safe
Augie

[ToneLoc3/144]

You got ENFORCE/IDENT right Augie? NTA takes about 15-20 min. The long part is the narrative. After a while you memorize which narrative you need for what case and plug in the names. Reinstatements take about 10-15 min. Almost makes getting cases worthwhile. :)

Tone

[Sharky]

That's true.....but only if the ENFORCE system is set up right and there are still some required forms that aren't on the ENFORCE system yet.

[Rogue9]

Nice avatar, Sharkman.

:D

[Augie]

We use the IDENT but we don't use ENFORCE. We use FIMS. But I use a personal program set up for each type removal action.

Hell, it takes me at least 15 minutes to get the approval from the ADDDI to issue the NTA. I usally use the I-860 not the I-862 for one thing. For us All NTA's have to include a sworn statement, I-213, I-296, detention and All the hearing forms legal aid list etc. I don't even have the authority to parole out custody so the ADDDI has to make the call.

As a side note I got a call last night that Miami got 50 Chinese Asylum.

Be Safe

[ToneLoc3/144]

50 chinese? Somebody's gonna have paperwork commin out the ass. Almost makes you wanna learn mandarin so you can earn 35- 50 an hour for the next six weeks.

Got a smuggling case last night but nobody's got the balls to prosecute these things anymore. At least we seized the vehicle, put two of em in the corralon and had a reinstatement. Just spreading some Holiday Cheer to our unfortunate friends from down south. Feliz Navidad from the El Paso County Detention Facility. :D

Tone