Why pose as a SEAL?

[Hts31]

From what I can understand more and more people are posing as team members-
What do they hope to gain from doing this?
Who is this DavidHM? What was he doing? and what did he hope to gain by posing as a SEAL?
What kind of a man does this?

Thanks
Hts31

[jcollettusa]

I guess everyone wants to be something their not, but some people just take their imagination a little too far and try to make others believe they are.

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Semper Fi

[PIMguy]

This brings up a question that I've always wondered about and maybe some of you real SEALs can answer for me. What if a non-SEAL wears a t-shirt with some sort of SEAL logo or phrase or picture on it? If I were to buy a t-shirt I'd wear it much the same way as I wear a Colorado Avalanche (go Avs) shirt or a Dallas Cowboys (no comments) shirt. I don't try to come off as an NHL or NFL player by wearing it, but would you consider me an imposter if I simply wore a SEAL t-shirt? Just wondering, because I've seen alot of guys wearing military t-shirts that I know are not military (or else our military standards have really gone downhill!).

[Hts31]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a "fan".
You make a good point though, one I have thought about as well-
I don't go up to every person I see wearing a Yankees hat and say "do you play for the yankees?"

[Fred]

Great points, wearing military regalia does not elevate one to phony status. davidhm went way beyond that and made a bunch of false claims, representing himself as a SEAL when he was not.

[PIMguy]

Fred,

No doubt. He called you out and I have no problem with your response. I've just always wondered about the question I asked. I collect t-shirts, but being in Virginia there's a damn good chance if I wear a SEAL shirt I'll run into a real SEAL. And the last thing I want is to be accused of being a poser. I'm proud and secure with what I am and I also have respect and admiration for what you are. When someone says they're something that they are not, to me it's just sad. But thanks for the reply Fred.

[Daredevil]

I live in Virginia. I know SEALs over in Naval Sea Systems Command in Crystal City where I work. Sometimes I run with a SEAL t-shirt on. They know I have Team aspirations and that I wear it for inspiration and they don't care. They also know if someone asks me if I am one I say "no". That's happened on more than one occasion, a couple people didn't believe me and thought I was just being one of these "you don't need to know" guys even though I swore up and down I wasn't one. I don't wear it too much now for that reason. The last thing I need is someone going around saying that I said I was a SEAL and having the guys I know around here getting pissed at me. I've seen the way they go after wannabes, hell, I've even pointed out some wannabes to them.

[PIMguy]

Hey Daredevil,

If you ever see a short guy with a SEAL shirt on and suckin wind over on the track by Reagan National, say hey. It's probably me. And I'm like you, if someone asks I just say no. Mainly out of respect for myself and the real SEALs, but also cuz I don't want a world of hurt coming down on me. ;~>

[Daredevil]

Cool man, will do!

I'm a brown haired slender guy doing the same thing.

I guess you're talking about the exercise trail. One of the coolest SEAL guys I know is this retired Captain. I won't say his whole name but his first name is Maynard. If you ever see an older bald guy doing dips on the bars over there that's him. He's got some kickass pictures of him and his guys from the Vietnam days all over his office.

[Jims]

PIMguy,
If you were running there this past summer, I think I passed you a few times. Now that I read you posts up above I feel bad for thinking you were a poser. Sorry.

[PIMguy]

Daredevil,

I think I have seen that guy. I figured he was something "special," he just had that look about him.

Jims,

Don't think it was me, I just started running on the trail a few months ago. Besides, I can pass for a SEAL, you know, if it's raining outside, and you're 100 meters away, without your glasses, looking the other way. ;~>

[Mike]

Brigade Quartermaster and US Cavalry sell those SEAL t-shirts. They're on the web.

[DavidHM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hts31:
[b]From what I can understand more and more people are posing as team members-
What do they hope to gain from doing this?
Who is this DavidHM? What was he doing? and what did he hope to gain by posing as a SEAL?
What kind of a man does this?

To set the record straight, I NEVER directly claimed SEAL status.


[This message has been edited by DavidHM (edited 05-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DavidHM (edited 05-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DavidHM (edited 05-09-2000).]

[Hts31]

DAMN!
You really got your ass handed to you!

[Jims]

PIMguy,
Sorry about that. Didn't mean to doubt you. I ran that trail while working in Alexandria this summer and I saw this guy wearing a Trident logo t -shirt a couple of times literally sucking wind.

[pomofo]

At the Eckerd on Lee Hwy. in Arlington I had a guy at the checkout last summer who was wearing a SEAL T-shirt. I asked him if he was a SEAL and he told me that he served in Team Six in Vietnam! Really pissed me off. It's hard to believe that in a city with so much military presence some people have the gall to try to fake being a SEAL.

[Mike]

Only ST1 and ST2 operated in Vietnam. All the other STs came later in the 1970s and 1980s. One way is to ask his age. Since the last ocmbat troops left 'Nam in 1973, anyone born in 1960-1970 will ....

[PathfinderJr3325]

just a hint, try yahoo. pogues abound on there. not long ago, I found a guy on there who was under a screenname with "navyseal" in the title. I asked him if he was a SEAL
and he said yes. I asked him what team he was on and he said "counterterrorism". I asked him what his BUD/S class # was and he got off of yahoo. Now, I am not a SEAL, nor
even in the service yet, but I know a pogue when I see one.

[PIMguy]

Jims,

If I ever do wear a military shirt of a unit to which I've never belonged (which includes all special operations type units) it is generally when working out at home. This is basically for inspirational purposes only. I don't usually wear it when I run in Crystal City (for reasons mentioned above)but I might next week to see if I run into Daredevil. The truth is, I belong to such a super secret unit that I don't even know what we do! Yeah, that's my story.

[josepy]

I think you all are taking the whole wannabe thing too far.

Too many operators(SEALs, Recon etc) take it way too seriously. It is even worse when you get out. I had a friend of mine who was with Team 3. I really liked the hats they had and wanted one. I had been out of the MC for 4 years at this point. He was very new(just out of STT) and said if I was a SEAL then I could not wear one. Come on now? Weak.

Then again he spent a year in BUD/S so.


High Schoolers always get a free pass. Wear whatever you want.

Only the weak fake the funk.

[IAN0321]

WHO WANT TO BE A SEAL..I WANNA POSE AS A COOK...WOULD THIS BE OK?..MY CODE NAME WOULD BE SUPER SPOON..LOL

[trident86]

I always wanted to be an SR-71 pilot, but I chose a different path instead. Aspiration is great, envy is so-so, but lying is inexcusable. I never claim to be something I'm not.

[gumby]

i have a friend who is a seal/ret and as a vet he as one and i as reg/nav we both kind of take it personal when you see people who havenot been in feild/trained waundering in the world not knowing what the emblems mean to those of us that take those emblems VERY personally transversly immitation is the true form of praise from the masses happy day

[WS-G]

IAN0321:

I'd suggest that you forget about posing as a Food Service Specialist. Do you really think your Mess Sergeant would let you wear that "Death From Within" T-shirt while doing KP unless you've earned it? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

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ex Co. G (-)(Abn/Rgr), 143d INF(LRRP), TXARNG 1981-1985
ex 433MAW (AFRES), 1985-1991
FAA-certificated pilot and Advanced Ground Instructor

[jasonh1234]

Glad I found this thread. I have a flight jacket which I had "modified" with the addition of a Naval Warfare SEAL TEAM patch on one shoulder and a SEAL Team 6 patch on the other. I have the benefit of no-one accidently mistaking me for a SEAL given that I'm in Canada but if anyone ever did ask, I'd give a wholehearted "No". The only time I've ever been questioned about an article of clothing I'd worn was when I was wearing an ILM (Industrial Light and Magic) (Special Effects company) Visual Effects Dept. shirt and some guy in the elevator with me looked all flustered and awe struck and asked if I worked at ILM. Although in that instance I played with him for a minute and told him I was the head of the CGI on Jurrasic Park. I swear he was going to drop to his knees and worship me. I then told him I just bought the shirt from Lucasfilm online and watched him try to recompose himself. It was funny. But anyway my point is yeah I have an article of SEAL related clothing that I wear out and I don't think it's a big deal. I wear it out of admiration and I would never let someone walk away believing I was a SEAL if they asked.
I've never seen or heard of anyone wearing a WWII Bomber jacket ever getting mistaken for a genuine pilot.

[DFC5343]

Hooyah Trident86!

[RogueExec]

Trident is right on...as long as there are SpecOps, there will be those who follow them as fans. But, the line is crossed when the lies begin. Posing just hacks off the guys who are the "real deal" and, worse than that, those pre-meditated lies are an insult, and the worst sign of disrespect for those few who endured to reach the ultimate prize. My feeling is, those who wish to lie about their status as SEALs ought to be sent through Hell Week.......twice.

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"Don't think of it as theft. Think of it as creative augmentation of your operational capabilities."

[enderr]

i heard a story[reliable source] 'bout a guy who used to wear a seal shirt, he caught some flack at first, but eventually he moved to england joined the RGJ, and eventually the SAS.....

...never doubt the kid with aspirations, and drive

[RogueExec]

Did he still wear the SEAL shirt when he was at SAS?

[Daredevil]

I can't imagine Canadians wearing the insignia of a US unit. Every Canadian I've ever met overseas seems intensely patriotic and distinctively anti-American. They couldn't seem to wait to tell everyone they weren't from the US and how the US sucks.

Judging from that experience, it seems like a Canadian kid wearing a SEAL shirt would get trouble for different reasons.

I'm sure this isn't representative of all Canadians.

[Jims]

From what I've seen while traveling I agree with Daredevil.

However, I worked with one Canadian Army officer who LOVED the US. In fact, he had a US flag sticker right next to his Ontario license plate. Man, if I ever see that tool again. He thought OAS should have a standing army.

[jasonh1234]

Daredevil: Well I'm definatly very patriotic but I'm not Anti-American. We'd be idiots not to admit the states is our big brother and we'd be a completely different place if the states wasn't around. I think any Anti-Americanism just comes from listening to too many "eh" jokes and people asking if we're a RCMP mountie or an eskimo.:-)
I can't imagine any other Canadian giving me a hard time about being a fan of the Navy SEALs. It'd more likely be a "Ah man, why aren't you wearing a Canadian military jacket?" Simple. The US gets all the press and it's what I'm exposed to. I might if I had any idea what a JTF-2 jacket might look like, or what their patches are. But how often do we hear about them? Never. They're supposedly "top secret" but I think the truth is they just don't exist.;-)

Here's a link that I feel sums up Canadians feelings re: the States. :-)
http://www.adcritic.com/content/molson-canadian-i-am.html

[This message has been edited by jasonh1234 (edited 11-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by jasonh1234 (edited 11-30-2000).]

[ANACONDA]

I HAVE A COUPLE OF MUSCLE-SHIRTS THAT I WEAR TO THE GYM THAT I GOT OFF SOME OF THE SECRET SERVICE AGENTS THAT DO THE VICE-PRESIDENT'S PROTECTION DETAIL.
WE SWAPPED, AND I GAVE THEM SOME OF THE T-SHIRTS THAT I WORE WHEN I WAS WITH THE FIRE DEPT. A COOL FRIENDLY TRADE.
FIRST DAY I SHOWED UP WITH ONE ON.......THE LOOKS I GOT, YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE !
I HAD A GUY COME UP TO ME AND ASK ME IF I WAS THE "SHIT", I SAID NO, THEN HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS A DEPUTY SHERRIFF AND BEGAN TO REQUEST SOME IDENTIFICATION AND HOW I MANAGED TO ACQUIRE FEDERAL PROPERTY.
GOOD THING I HAD MY BADGE AND I.D. IN MY BAG AND HE WASNT SUCH AN ASSHOLE ABOUT IT AFTER I EXPLAINED THE TRADE WE DID.
I WENT AND GAVE HIM ONE FOR GOOD MEASURE.
DIDNT HAVE TOO, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS A NEIGHBORLY THING TO DO.
ENDED UP MAKING A DAMN GOOD FRIEND IN THE PROCESS.

ANYBODY WANNA TRADE FOR A FIRE DEPT. T-SHIRT ?

[Daredevil]

Anaconda: A friend of my father's was one of those guys who follows the President around with the briefcase handcuffed to him. He had that job during Reagan's administration. Anyway, he got my whole family Secret Service sweatshirts and nobody ever said a thing.

Jason: I do have to hand one thing to you Canadians. You were able to hold an election, handcount votes, and certify your PM and we still don't have our election sorted out.

Still one thing I had to laugh at. On the Daily Show with Jon Stewart some time ago Michael J. Fox was on there talking about how Canadians feel about Americans. When Mr. Fox asked Jon Stewart what Americans thought of Canadians Jon Stewart replied, "We don't."

Anyway, someone asked if anyone on here had ever worked or had contact with JTF-2 and Trident86 replied that he had and thought very highly of them. So you have at least one SEAL who holds them in high esteem. Doesn't Canada have some kind of Combat Diver group or other maritime capability?

[This message has been edited by Daredevil (edited 11-30-2000).]

[RUDEDAWG]

I have a cousin who was working for LAPD about the same time that I was working for Metro in D.C. We swapped badges secretly. In retrospect I wish I hadn't done it considering how much they cost and the possible dangers of losing something so sensitive.

[Daredevil]

By the way, the book "Stolen Valor" has an interesting tidbit about Canada during the Vietnam war. During the Vietnam war there was a program through which Canadians could join the US military. During the war an estimated 10,000 draft dodgers ran off to Canada. In that same time frame, about 30,000 Canadians joined the US military and roughly 10,000 of those Canadians wound up in Vietnam. Sounds like we came out the better in that little trade off. I'll trade an American draft dodger for 3 brave Canadians any day.

[RogueExec]

Heard a good one not long ago, speaking of draft dodgers.....President Clinton was stepping off of Air Force One carrying a good-sized box. The Marine guard at the bottom of the stairs asked, "What's in the box, Mr. President?". Clinton responded, "I got a dog for Hillary." The Marine replied, "Sounds like a good trade, sir."

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"Don't think of it as theft. Think of it as creative augmentation of your operational capabilities."

[DFC5343]

To all you canucks out there...thank you..for the game of hockey!

[jasonh1234]

Daredevil: That's really intresting regarding Canadians as US soldiers in Vietnam. I never knew that. I'll have to take a look for that book. About Trident86's opinion on JTF-2, I'm curious about when and where JTF-2 and The SEALs were or would be working togehter. Agh. I'm in a hunger for JTF-2 knowledge state and I can't get enough info.<:-) As far as Canada having a combat diver group, I'm sure we do, I just don't know anything about them.

Rudedawg: You can buy almost every police departments badge online. I have a NYPD badge and a LAPD badge myself.

RogueExec: LOL. good joke.

DFC5343: Um.. You welcome?

Apologies to all for singlehandedly pulling this thread WAY off topic. <:-)

[Cole]

Daredevil
Funny that you brought that up...I know a Canadian Vietnam vet. This guy was a substitute teacher that I had throughout highschool who joined the Marine Corps and served in Vietnam (he got out as a Lance Corporal). The guy still looked like he was a Marine, and he carried himself like one too.
One day, he was teaching a math class and this group at the back was blabing. When he told them to shut up, one of the guys stood up, saluted and said "yes, sir!"
So this teacher gets pissed off, takes the whole math class out to the field and makes us all run laps....
I am sorry if I am running off a bit, but this guy was and is definatly Semper Fi. (When I tell him I am joining the Canadian Forces, he still tries to convince me to go south and join the Corps) Shows that there are some Canadians with fight in them...

[maztica]

A canadian friend of mine complained to me about a year ago about canada disbanding their special forces, and that he wished he could join the seals.

[RogueExec]

When did Canada disband their SOF? Why would they ever do that??? I mean, I could see paring them down a bit, but ALL of them are gone?

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"Don't think of it as theft. Think of it as creative augmentation of your operational capabilities."

[jasonh1234]

Sounds strange to me. I highly doubt it.

[Enfield]

let me lay your fears to rest..
JTF-2 is still alive and kicking, and doing well. Exactly WHAT it's doing, well, nobody knows.
We do have divers, but they're Clearance Divers... most of their responsibility is for cleaing mines and EOD. The Army Engineers have combat divers as well, and I believe they can do beach, and river for sure, recces.
maybe JTF has a diver group as well - there's a pic of them. What they do? who knows. Trident probaly knows better than most Canadians, but I doubt he'll tell us =o)

And on wearing SOF insignia.. well, in my mind, if it ain't your regiment (or a family members), you shouldn't wear the shirt. But with SOF it's different - I doubt anyone IN the units actually wear the clothes... but to me it denotes "wannabe".

Enfield

[This message has been edited by Enfield (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Robert H]

I really dont have a big probelem with people who ware T-shirts that say US military special forces groups on em, but when people step over the line and make statments such as I was is ST6 during Operation Urgent Fury and they werent and they have no evidence too back up there statment I get mad. Comeing from a person who wants too pursue a career in Naval Special Warfare (SEAL's) I really dont have a big problem with this stuff