Not sure if I agree with this....

[RetPara]

I'm not really sure if this was the best way to do it. Young people have to be hit up side the head to get the point across though. I would think working as a volunteer in a ER on weekend evenings, ride alongs with EMS on weekends, or something on like that.


School defends drunken driving hoax

* Story Highlights
* School told students that classmates had died in drunken driving wrecks
* Guidance counselor says officials "wanted them to be traumatized"
* Many students were furious when they learned of hoax
* School said it wanted to really push the anti-DUI message

OCEANSIDE, California (AP) -- On a Monday morning last month, highway patrol officers visited 20 classrooms at El Camino High School to announce some horrible news: Several students had been killed in car wrecks over the weekend.

Classmates wept. Some became hysterical.

A few hours and many tears later, though, the pain turned to fury when the teenagers learned that it was all a hoax, a scared-straight exercise designed by school officials to dramatize the consequences of drinking and driving.

As seniors prepare for graduation parties Friday, school officials in the largely prosperous San Diego, California, suburb are defending themselves against allegations that they went too far.

At school assemblies, some students held posters that read, "Death is real. Don't play with our emotions."

Michelle de Gracia, 16, was in physics class when an officer announced that her missing classmate David, a popular basketball player, had died instantly after being rear-ended by a drunken driver. She said she felt nauseated but was too stunned to cry.

"They got the shock they wanted," she said.

Some of her classmates became extremely upset, prompting the teacher to tell them immediately that it was all staged.

"People started yelling at the teacher," she said. "It was pretty hectic."

Others, including many who heard the news of the 26 deaths between classes, were left in the dark until the missing students reappeared hours later.

"You feel betrayed by your teachers and administrators, these people you trust," said 15-year-old Carolyn Magos. "But then I felt selfish for feeling that way, because, I mean, if it saves one life, it's worth it."

Officials at the 3,100-student school defended the program.

"They were traumatized, but we wanted them to be traumatized," said guidance counselor Lori Tauber, who helped organize the shocking exercise and got dozens of students to participate. "That's how they get the message."

The plan was to tell the truth to the students at an assembly later in the day. But word that it was all a hoax began to spread before the gathering. Tauber said some counselors and administrators revealed the truth to calm some students who had become upset.

Oceanside Schools Superintendent Larry Perondi said he fielded only a few calls from parents, and the PTA chapter said it had not heard any complaints. Perondi said the program would be revised, but he would not say how. And he said he was glad that students seemed to have gotten the message.

"We did this in earnest," he said. "This was not done to be a prankster."

[GPC]

IMHO I don't see whats so bad about it.It's a good lesson and will toughen up the students to life in the "real world".They'll get over it.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

IMHO I don't see whats so bad about it.It's a good lesson and will toughen up the students to life in the "real world".They'll get over it.

Really?
Maybe next a teacher can corner a female student alone and pretend he's about to rape her.
That will be a good lesson to remind female students to be careful.

...or maybe a teacher can burst screaming into a classroom, wearing a mask, and fire blanks at the students. That would be a good lesson too.


Telling a teenage kid that his or her friend was violently killed is not funny... and certainly not something that teachers should be doing.

[Greenhat]

What the hell made the teachers think they were qualified to decide that the students should be traumatized?

[cord]

As a student, that's just messed up. Not sure how I'd react, but after finding out it was a hoax it'd be hard to sit in class and listen to anything else the teacher had to say.

[GPC]

What the hell made the teachers think they were qualified to decide that the students should be traumatized?
Good point GH, the kids today are a bunch of spoiled candyasses.Like I said toughen up and get over it.Lifes not fair and life is full of surprises.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

Good point GH, the kids today are a bunch of spoiled candyasses.Like I said toughen up and get over it.Lifes not fair and life is full of surprises.

No.
This was not a group of troubled teens in a special class because they've had DUI problems.
This was told to all the students.

I have kids.
They are not "spoiled candyasses"
I know my daughter would be devestated and traumatized if someone in authority told her that one or more of her friends had been violently killed.

I also know that I would be facing charges because I would beat the crap out of whoever took it upon themselves to traumatize my daughter.

[Sharky]

Really?
Maybe next a teacher can corner a female student alone and pretend he's about to rape her.
That will be a good lesson to remind female students to be careful.

...or maybe a teacher can burst screaming into a classroom, wearing a mask, and fire blanks at the students. That would be a good lesson too.


Telling a teenage kid that his or her friend was violently killed is not funny... and certainly not something that teachers should be doing.



I'd say there's a bit of difference between being in fear for your own life and being in fear that someone you know died. Surprised that you came up with such poor examples for comparison. If someone else here did that you'd rip them up and call them hysterical etc.....

Not sure I agree with it either but there is also the argument that if it saves a life..... I could give a shit about their "trauma". That's not trauma. My concern would be the schools decision to do it without consulting the parents.

[Sharky]

No.
This was not a group of troubled teens in a special class because they've had DUI problems.
This was told to all the students.

I have kids.
They are not "spoiled candyasses"
I know my daughter would be devestated and traumatized if someone in authority told her that one or more of her friends had been violently killed.

I also know that I would be facing charges because I would beat the crap out of whoever took it upon themselves to traumatize my daughter.



Would you not willingly do this to your daughter if you had reason to believe that there was a 90% chance it might save her life? What if there was only a 10% chance that it might save her life? What about the lives of one of her friends? As a parent, I already know the answers. It's just amusing to see you step out so early with the bullseye on your chest.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

I'd say there's a bit of difference between being in fear for your own life and being in fear that someone you know died. Surprised that you came up with such poor examples for comparison. If someone else here did that you'd rip them up and call them hysterical etc.....


True. You're right.
I over reacted in my analogies.
My anger clouded my judgment.
The trauma of loss and fear is different.

But it is not the place of the teachers to traumatize my kids.
The psychology behind their motives is completely flawed and winds up serving no purpose.
All the teachers did was traumatize and upset some kids who did nothing to deserve it... and ruin their own credibility in the process.

Teaching kids about the dangers of DUI is one thing... telling them their friends are dead and letting them believe it for hours is way across the line.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

Would you not willingly do this to your daughter if you had reason to believe that there was a 90% chance it might save her life? What if there was only a 10% chance that it might save her life? What about the lives of one of her friends? As a parent, I already know the answers. It's just amusing to see you step out so early with the bullseye on your chest.

Yes.
Aside from the fact that I don't believe it was in any way an effective lesson in preventing DUI...
that is not teaching my daughter anything... it is fucking with her emotions and traumatizing her.
I have good kids who make me proud.
They have good ethics and morals.
They work hard both in school and doing volunteer work in the community.
They are also polite and repectful of others.

They have also endured some trauma in recent years with the deaths of both close relatives and two close friends.
So yes, I would be taken from that school with blood on my knuckles and cuffs on my wrists if some jackass teacher decided to deliberately traumatize any of my children and open old wounds.

[Hopeless Civilian]

What would upset me the most would be if this was done to my child, without my permission or participation. And yeah, I'd probably get into trouble for taking out my anger on who ever did that to my child.

[C-M-R]

Not sure I agree with it either but there is also the argument that if it saves a life..... I could give a shit about their "trauma". That's not trauma. My concern would be the schools decision to do it without consulting the parents.

I absolutley agree with Sharky on this. As a mom I work all the time to make Zac stop and think for even 5 seconds about his choices. That 5 second decison could be life and death for him if he gets into the wrong car with the wrong person.

I would like to know before somebody scares the crap out of my kid though.

Spot on Post!

[C-M-R]

But it is not the place of the teachers to traumatize my kids.
The psychology behind their motives is completely flawed and winds up serving no purpose.
All the teachers did was traumatize and upset some kids who did nothing to deserve it... and ruin their own credibility in the process.

Teaching kids about the dangers of DUI is one thing... telling them their friends are dead and letting them believe it for hours is way across the line.

I totally disagree. You can tell kids how bad something is or how hurtful, dangerous, whatever but some kids and my Zac is one of them simply don't learn by being told. He has to deal with things first hand.

As a mom I would be mad that I wasn't told before hand but I know full well this exercise would have taught my boy a lesson he'd never forget.

[Sharky]

I have good kids who make me proud.
They have good ethics and morals.
They work hard both in school and doing volunteer work in the community.
They are also polite and repectful of others.



I dont doubt it one bit. But, I have picked up pieces of kids who fit the above description on more occasions than I like to think about. Most cops here have as well. It's not usually the drunk behind the wheel who dies. Unfortunately.

I agree with you about doing such a thing to my child without permission.

[Greenhat]

There are always arguments. That doesn't mean they are good arguments. I strongly doubt that this would have any deterence effect at all. It doesn't make the sort of connections between action and results that normally result in modified behavior. I'd be very interested in having a psychologist's point of view of this. Personally, if I was the parent of any of those children? I'd have a very pointed conversation with the school board and then I'd move away from these idiots.

[Greenhat]

I totally disagree. You can tell kids how bad something is or how hurtful, dangerous, whatever but some kids and my Zac is one of them simply don't learn by being told. He has to deal with things first hand.

Fairly normal way for people to learn. It is unusual for someone to learn from others' experience.

As a mom I would be mad that I wasn't told before hand but I know full well this exercise would have taught my boy a lesson he'd never forget.

Would it have taught him the lesson you want him to learn? I think it would have taught him to not trust his teachers. That when they lie to him it hurts. I doubt it would have taught him a damn thing about drunk driving. There is no real link between the actions of drinking and driving and the results here. The link is just being told. And you yourself said Zac doesn't learn from simply being told.

[C-M-R]

I strongly doubt that this would have any deterence effect at all. It doesn't make the sort of connections between action and results that normally result in modified behavior. I'd be very interested in having a psychologist's point of view of this. Personally, if I was the parent of any of those children? I'd have a very pointed conversation with the school board and then I'd move away from these idiots.

I think it depends on the follow up done by parents. A bad example was made so why not use it?

Right now I'm dealing with a boy who thinks I'm the biggest idiot and his friends are all rocket scientists. It's a path he has to take in order to break from me and not turn out a mama's boy but slamming his emotions isn't always a bad thing.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

Would it have taught him the lesson you want him to learn? I think it would have taught him to not trust his teachers. That when they lie to him it hurts. I doubt it would have taught him a damn thing about drunk driving. There is no real link between the actions of drinking and driving and the results here. The link is just being told. And you yourself said Zac doesn't learn from simply being told.

I agree sir.
That is my second problem with what the teachers did.
It would not work.
It would not teach kids not to drink and drive.
It would only ruin the teachers' credibility and perhaps traumatize some kids who didn't deserve it.

I can't imagine any psychologist would see any value in this either.

Upsetting the kids aside...
What lesson was really learned?
Don't trust everything your teachers say.

[C-M-R]

Would it have taught him the lesson you want him to learn? I think it would have taught him to not trust his teachers. That when they lie to him it hurts. I doubt it would have taught him a damn thing about drunk driving. There is no real link between the actions of drinking and driving and the results here. The link is just being told. And you yourself said Zac doesn't learn from simply being told.


Great point. dammit. I hate it when someone shows me the error of my ways.

You are right. What I was thinking was about being able to say to Zac "remember how you felt when you thought something bad happened to your friends?"

What you are saying is that he won't think of that. He'll think about how the people who are supposed to be educating him lied. If they lied about that what else will they lie about.

[Greenhat]

I think it depends on the follow up done by parents. A bad example was made so why not use it?

Right now I'm dealing with a boy who thinks I'm the biggest idiot and his friends are all rocket scientists. It's a path he has to take in order to break from me and not turn out a mama's boy but slamming his emotions isn't always a bad thing.

Not saying it is. However, you and Chuck need to be the ones making the decisions on how to slam them (and life, it'll get its share), not some teachers who come up with a half-assed idea and fail to think through the consequences of their actions.

In my business, we design a lot of situational activities designed to modify behavior. This one? Wouldn't have got off the drawing board. It doesn't make the right connections to obtain the hoped for response in even a minority of the people exposed to it (in my opinion). The responses of the children demonstrate that. The focus didn't end up being drunk driving, it ended up being lying teachers.

[The Fat Guy]

What the hell made the teachers think they were qualified to decide that the students should be traumatized?

Well said, but here are a few things to consider...

There is no greater force on a teenager than peer pressure. We leveraged it to our advantage when working with bangers in Pittsburgh. Having these kids feel the actual pain of that loss will make an impression that may convince them to confront their peers when driving drunk as opposed to saying nothing.

B5R, You often speak well of your parenting ability and how good your kids are. That said, I'll bet they would accept the lesson learned and move on because they have a sound base under them. My kids are well adjusted and able to fend for themselves. I think my kids would be pissed but its up to us as parents to temper EVERYTHING our kids bring home from school.

I may not agree with the technique, but the underlying message is for us as parents to make the best coaching session out of situations such as this.

Let Fly....

[Bravo Five Romeo]

B5R, You often speak well of your parenting ability and how good your kids are. That said, I'll bet they would accept the lesson learned and move on because they have a sound base under them. My kids are well adjusted and able to fend for themselves. I think my kids would be pissed but its up to us as parents to temper EVERYTHING our kids bring home from school.

My sons would get pissed and eventually laugh it off.
My daughter, on the other hand, who lost a close friend in real life, would be traumatized, feel betrayed, and would be flooded with emotions from old wounds.
Would the teachers know that ahead of time?
No.
But should they be traumatizing kids without knowing what they are doing?
Fuck no!

From a news article:"There is not much evidence that these programs have much impact on drinking and driving," says Richard A. Yoast, the director of the American Medical Association's Office of Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse. "They create awareness but there is not much evidence that they change behaviors."

"Education is necessary to change people's behavior, but it's rarely sufficient to do that. What works is public education, strong laws, law enforcement and people knowing about the enforcement. That combination has reduced drunken driving fatalities."

In some cases, the fear engendered by such programs may even have the opposite impact, says Jennifer Bauerle, the director of the National Social Norms Institute at the University of Virginia.

"The research that I've read shows that scare tactics don't work because fear tends to paralyze the intended audience, keep them upset about something that happened in the past and keep them scared about something that will happen in the future. They can't focus on the present. … Sometimes fear appeals cause stress, and they increase the usage of what they're trying to change."

Michelle de Gracia, 16, was in physics class when an officer announced her missing classmate David, a popular basketball player, died instantly after being rear-ended by a drunk driver. She felt nauseated but was too frozen to cry.

"They got the shock they wanted," she said.

[C-M-R]

The focus didn't end up being drunk driving, it ended up being lying teachers.

In the end, that is the best point. How can you tell your children to mind what a teacher says if that teacher has proven himself a liar?

Discussion like this one is what makes this a great board.

[The Fat Guy]

My My daughter, on the other hand, who lost a close friend in real life, would be traumatized, feel betrayed, and would be flooded with emotions from old wounds.
Would the teachers know that ahead of time?
No.
But should they be traumatizing kids without knowing what they are doing?
Fuck no!
:

A great example for not picking this technique.

My little girl came home from school today and said she witnessed a man die in a motorcycle accident just off the school property. She told me she saw the wreck, The ambulance and the life flight fly of and the teacher just stood there and let all of those kids just stand there and watch. Damn.... She did say though that she will stick with her horse and never ride a motorcycle.

[C-M-R]

I may not agree with the technique, but the underlying message is for us as parents to make the best coaching session out of situations such as this.

Let Fly....

Agree. Use it to our advantage. As parents we need all the help we can get. But the thing is and GH reminded me of it in his posts - I have never lied to my kids. I never said a shot wouldn't hurt, or that a swat hurt me more than it did him or that school was great fun. It wasn't. Granted, school had its moments but mostly because of my friends.

I never lied to Zac about deployments or how long Dad was going to be gone. "Oh, he'll be back before you know it." huh-uh nope. We're kind of a family of truth tellers and so lying about somebody being dead doesn't really cut it once I give it careful consideration.

I appreciate what they were trying to do. But when it comes right down to it telling the truth is always the best. Besides, the truth about kids and cars is scarier than anything I can make up. Know what I mean?

[JDurlin]

I applaud the teachers for trying to make a difference in their student's lives. Since i don't know a better way of going about it, I won't pass judgement.

[Greenhat]

I applaud the teachers for trying to make a difference in their student's lives. Since i don't know a better way of going about it, I won't pass judgement.

I've got three psychologists who work with us in designing behavioral modification activities. There is too much chance of having exactly the opposite happen if you don't carefully evaluate the activity. They may have been trying to make a difference, but it is all too easy to make a difference that goes the wrong way when you don't know what you are doing. Someone should have dissented on this one and said "Hey, this isn't a good idea".

[The Fat Guy]

Agree. Use it to our advantage. As parents we need all the help we can get. But the thing is and GH reminded me of it in his posts - I have never lied to my kids. I never said a shot wouldn't hurt, or that a swat hurt me more than it did him or that school was great fun. It wasn't. Granted, school had its moments but mostly because of my friends.

I never lied to Zac about deployments or how long Dad was going to be gone. "Oh, he'll be back before you know it." huh-uh nope. We're kind of a family of truth tellers and so lying about somebody being dead doesn't really cut it once I give it careful consideration.

I appreciate what they were trying to do. But when it comes right down to it telling the truth is always the best. Besides, the truth about kids and cars is scarier than anything I can make up. Know what I mean?

Agreed,

There are other ways to make a gruesome point without defiling an American Institution. Like I said, the doctrine may have been sound but the tactic sucked.

[HumanLawnSprinkler]

What, like kids all across the U.S. haven't ALREADY died this year in DUIs? If THAT doesn't stop others from doing it, I doubt a stunt like this will.

Just another case of the schools trying to teach what SHOULD (keyword) be taught at home. I'd rather my kids learned the curriculum, leave the life lessons to the parents... and if some parents don't teach those lessons, well, that's the way the Ford Focus crumbles!

And yes, I'm a parent.

[Sharky]

I think we can all agree that this idea falls under the "Good initiative, Bad judgement" category.

The sad truth is that for most teens, only a first-hand experience is sufficient for them to get past the "it cant happen to me" mentality. I am absolutely amazed that I am alive today when I think back on some of the absolutely stupid things I did in/with a car when I was a teenager. When a friend of mine wrapped his truck around a pine tree and burned to a crisp on the hood, I still don't think it sunk in. However, a few days later, going to see what was left of his truck and seeing the back pocket of his levi's melted and still stuck to the hood and the blood stains had an impact that no amount of talk from my father could have ever had.

I'm sure most of us have good kids. It's just been my experience that the good kids are usually the ones that get killed when they get peer-pressured into getting in a car with someone they shouldn't. No kid is 100% immune to that pressure.

If I could only have known when I was a teenager the mental anguish my parents must have went through wondering if I would get myself killed doing something stupid. Now I have a 17 year old mildly autistic son who thinks the WWE is real, still watches the cartoon network, and is easily susceptible to peer pressure regardless of what I or anyone else tells him. He thinks everyone is his friend and lives only in the moment. It's not fun wondering what he might be doing on the weekends, especially when he's 1100 miles away. It's also a balancing act trying to let him run around with "normal" kids so that he grows up somewhat normal yet still having to somewhat protect him from things he doesn't have the mental capacity to resist or to know that it could get him into serious trouble.

[JRB11]

I've seen my share of dead and dying teenagers from DWI, but this does seem extreme. Every year, about 2 weeks from grad., we put on a show at the HS's, called The Gift of Life. We get a couple of cars from the junk yard, place kids inside that are made up with everything from an open leg fracture to dead. Usually at least one kid is partially thru the wind shield (usually the dead one), and 1 or 2 are screaming bloody murder from shock/head injuries, plus pleny of empties laying around. The scene is covered up until all the kids are seated outside, then a dispatch is made over the comm system for units to respond to an injury accident, and all hell breaks loose. We come in with lights/siren, get out the jaws and go to town, triaging and treating the injured, and covering up the DOA. A arrator is talking the whole time. After the injured are put in an amb, we take the DOA out on a gurney and cover em up. Then all the seniors go into the gym, wher ethe "body" is laying on the gurney the whole time. Several speakers, usually someone who lost a kid in a DUI speak, plus a patrolman who was burned over 70% of his body, speaks. You can hear a pin dop. I'm sure it makes a difference, but they keep giving us bidness every year.

[Offroad]

Shocking anyone's emotions with a lie is just plain stupid.

Now if (God forbid) anyone in their school really gets killed...when the school makes an announcement....no one will believe it!

Imagine how their emotions will yoyo. Disbelief, joking and laughter and then (after a lot of convincing) plummeting into shock, tears and anguish.

That's not educational. That's just mean.

[KSM]

I think we can all agree that this idea falls under the "Good initiative, Bad judgement" category.

As they say, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I think the teachers made a big mistake in failing to take into account how reactionary teenagers can be. Then again, maybe learning that not everything your teachers tell you is true is a good lesson to be learned as well. That's for a whole different thread though...

The sad truth is that for most teens, only a first-hand experience is sufficient for them to get past the "it cant happen to me" mentality.

True. I was a teenager not too long ago (only a decade or so :o), but I remember not learning a few lessons I probably should have. I think a lot of this can be chalked up to a lack of life experience... We as adults learn these lessons because we've already had the first hand experiences, or at the very least have come into contact with someone who has.


If I could only have known when I was a teenager the mental anguish my parents must have went through wondering if I would get myself killed doing something stupid. Now I have a 17 year old mildly autistic son who thinks the WWE is real, still watches the cartoon network, and is easily susceptible to peer pressure regardless of what I or anyone else tells him. He thinks everyone is his friend and lives only in the moment. It's not fun wondering what he might be doing on the weekends, especially when he's 1100 miles away. It's also a balancing act trying to let him run around with "normal" kids so that he grows up somewhat normal yet still having to somewhat protect him from things he doesn't have the mental capacity to resist or to know that it could get him into serious trouble.

I know you aren't looking for an "attaboy" with that comment, but I'll give you one anyway. Good for you for doing the right thing by your son, I can only imagine the stress of being a parent is at least tripled for you.

[Forestboy]

I've seen my share of dead and dying teenagers from DWI, but this does seem extreme. Every year, about 2 weeks from grad., we put on a show at the HS's, called The Gift of Life. We get a couple of cars from the junk yard, place kids inside that are made up with everything from an open leg fracture to dead. Usually at least one kid is partially thru the wind shield (usually the dead one), and 1 or 2 are screaming bloody murder from shock/head injuries, plus pleny of empties laying around. The scene is covered up until all the kids are seated outside, then a dispatch is made over the comm system for units to respond to an injury accident, and all hell breaks loose. We come in with lights/siren, get out the jaws and go to town, triaging and treating the injured, and covering up the DOA. A arrator is talking the whole time. After the injured are put in an amb, we take the DOA out on a gurney and cover em up. Then all the seniors go into the gym, wher ethe "body" is laying on the gurney the whole time. Several speakers, usually someone who lost a kid in a DUI speak, plus a patrolman who was burned over 70% of his body, speaks. You can hear a pin dop. I'm sure it makes a difference, but they keep giving us bidness every year.



They did this at my high school when I was a senior, right before the prom and graduation. Same result you describe, dead silence. The kids they picked to be the dead kids were the same kids getting drunk and driving every weekend. I'm pretty sure the principal had a hand in picking them. 16 years later no one from my senior class has died in a DUI related accident.

[rgrjoe175]

In my home town, anytime there is an accident that involves a death due to DUI. The vehicle is placed downtown on the main drag in the Dairy Queen parking lot where all the teens hang out.

JP

[rgrjoe175]

I also know that I would be facing charges because I would beat the crap out of whoever took it upon themselves to traumatize my daughter.

That sets a great example for your children....:rolleyes:

[DevilDog19]

I can understand the message the teachers were trying to relay to the students but in my opinion they went about it entirely the wrong way. When I was getting ready to graduate in '05 my school did something similar but instead of taking the students out of class and telling us they were dead they made them wear black shirts and told them not to talk to anyone through out the day to symbolize death and that they had been killed in a drunk driving incident. And randomly through out the day they would take more students and make them put on a black shirt to show the rate at which lives are lost to drunk drivers. No one had an idea why these students were wearing black shirts because they werent allowed to talk and all of them didnt..and when we had an assembly at the end of the day to explain all of it, it really hit home, without creating any sort of hysteria through out the day. Just a better way to get the message across than what they did in Cali.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

That sets a great example for your children....:rolleyes:

As a father I have learned to swallow my anger and walk away from situations where, had I not been a father with responsibilities, I would have otherwise not walked away.

I walk away or I bite my tongue.
This is somehing I think all of us who are fathers have had to do at least once.

But if you are an adult and you harm my child, physicaly or emotionaly... you better hide.

When it comes to my wife and children, in that regard, I am very old fashioned.

An example:
A teenage boy in the neighborhood, made some pretty graphic and aggressive sexual comments to my daughter... things she never even heard before. The boy was four years older than her. She didn't even know the boy. She was outside, playing with a friend. She came home shaking and crying.

Fortunately, the boy's father felt terrible and was furious at his son and I needed to nothing more than tell him.
The whole way walking over to the boy's house I was imagining in my head what was going to happen. Of course, I played out the worst case scenario in my head. I pictured the boy's father telling me to fuck off, and me beating him in the street in front of his son for the whole neighborhood to see and understand you don't fuck with my family.

In the few minutes it took to walk to this boy's house I thought about it.
I had a serious parenting diemna.
What if the boy's father does nothing?
Do I walk away and go home and have my daughter see that I wasn't able to do anything?
or
Do I risk legal action against myself but let my daughter know that I am her protector?
It was an easy choice... the only one that I could make and still look at myself in the mirror and my daughter in the face.
This boy was going to either be dealt with by his father or watch me deal with his father... either way there would be consequences for his actions.
But as I said earlier, fortunately the boy's father was a decent man and was as upset as I was. I didn't need to do anything more.

[Bushmaster]

Shocking anyone's emotions with a lie is just plain stupid.

Now if (God forbid) anyone in their school really gets killed...when the school makes an announcement....no one will believe it!

..........


Good point here.

I remember my high school football coach telling us about steroids. He said steroids don't work and they make your pecker shrink up.

I had some friends at another school who were juicing. I kept seeing them get bigger and stronger and I asked them if they worked. Yes, they work. They don't make your pecker shrink either.

Coach's message was correct about not using steroids. But when he said they don't work and make your pecker shrink up, we lost the message because he was wrong.

Traumatizing these kids is jacked up. I like the way the scene was played out by the other poster where they can see it unfold without the trauma.

[Expatmedic]

Consider this. What would the teachers do if a child, really "lost it". In the childs mind they just lost a loved one or someone close to them. For them it was VERY REAL. Were counselors available?

This was just one big mind fuck. Milgram and Zimbardo would be proud.:rolleyes:

[Baildog]

My concern would be the schools decision to do it without consulting the parents.

Last night I had a note in my mailbox from the local elementary school (we've got two kids there) letting parents and neighbors know that the LifeFlight bird we might see landing at the school today was there for a function (sixth grade graduation), not to evac any of the kids. Which I thought was a wise move on their part.

[P38]

Consider this. What would the teachers do if a child, really "lost it". In the childs mind they just lost a loved one or someone close to them. For them it was VERY REAL. Were counselors available?

This was just one big mind fuck. Milgram and Zimbardo would be proud.:rolleyes:

I agree. While I applaud the intent and the need, I don't agree with the method used in this case. The school staff has no idea as to what kind of emotional baggage some kids could be carrying.

My younger sister was hit and killed by two cars driven by HS seniors racing home on the next to the last day of school. Her twin watched it happen. The lead car was driven by a neighbor in my small town and his sister was a classmate of mine. That was and still is a very raw sore in several peoples lives. I don't know how my older sister, my brother, my younger sister (the surviving twin), I or my classmate the drivers sister would have reacted if this had been played out in our High School. It's hitting too close to home. No matter how deeply you think you've buried something like that, it's still there waiting to come out.

I'm all for some kind of demonstration, but this wasn't the way to do it.

[KSM]

I've seen my share of dead and dying teenagers from DWI, but this does seem extreme. Every year, about 2 weeks from grad., we put on a show at the HS's, called The Gift of Life. We get a couple of cars from the junk yard, place kids inside that are made up with everything from an open leg fracture to dead. Usually at least one kid is partially thru the wind shield (usually the dead one), and 1 or 2 are screaming bloody murder from shock/head injuries, plus pleny of empties laying around. The scene is covered up until all the kids are seated outside, then a dispatch is made over the comm system for units to respond to an injury accident, and all hell breaks loose. We come in with lights/siren, get out the jaws and go to town, triaging and treating the injured, and covering up the DOA. A arrator is talking the whole time. After the injured are put in an amb, we take the DOA out on a gurney and cover em up. Then all the seniors go into the gym, wher ethe "body" is laying on the gurney the whole time. Several speakers, usually someone who lost a kid in a DUI speak, plus a patrolman who was burned over 70% of his body, speaks. You can hear a pin dop. I'm sure it makes a difference, but they keep giving us bidness every year.

I participated in one of those. They even had the "deceased" kid's mom and dad show up to the accident scene as part of it. I know they were in on it, but those tears and hysteria were real. I think that really drove home part of it to the kids too, to see how their actions affected others. There were quite a few kids who were watching in tears at that point.

[RGR.Montcalm]

Does anyone remember the old "Code 99" films they used to show in Driver's Education?

They quit using them because they found out that they were counter productive.

They had a training device at Fort Benning that I think would be a better technique if adopted for this kind of use; it was a simulator that showed the effects of hitting a solid object while driving and wearing a seat belt. The subject was strapped into a "car seat" with a seat belt and then towed by a TMP vehicle; when the TMP vehicle hit its brakes at 20mph. the 'seat' rolled forward to a stop, causing the seat belt to tighten, and the subject to get the feel of a 20 mph impact.

Then they were invited to do it again wothout the seat belt- nedles say there were no takers. :rolleyes:

With a modification of using the 'drunk glasses' that are used to simulate the distorted eyesight of someone under the influence of alcohol, I think that this would be a pretty effective 'behavior modifier'.

[grappler]

I've seen my share of dead and dying teenagers from DWI, but this does seem extreme. Every year, about 2 weeks from grad., we put on a show at the HS's, called The Gift of Life. We get a couple of cars from the junk yard, place kids inside that are made up with everything from an open leg fracture to dead. Usually at least one kid is partially thru the wind shield (usually the dead one), and 1 or 2 are screaming bloody murder from shock/head injuries, plus pleny of empties laying around. The scene is covered up until all the kids are seated outside, then a dispatch is made over the comm system for units to respond to an injury accident, and all hell breaks loose. We come in with lights/siren, get out the jaws and go to town, triaging and treating the injured, and covering up the DOA. A arrator is talking the whole time. After the injured are put in an amb, we take the DOA out on a gurney and cover em up. Then all the seniors go into the gym, wher ethe "body" is laying on the gurney the whole time. Several speakers, usually someone who lost a kid in a DUI speak, plus a patrolman who was burned over 70% of his body, speaks. You can hear a pin dop. I'm sure it makes a difference, but they keep giving us bidness every year.

Wish my high school would have done something like that.

I'm from a small southern town where everybody knows everybody. A guy in my senior class died on the windy, country road going home after a football party. DUI. Three years later, his sister died on the same road, no more than 50 yards where her deceased brother died. DUI. Some just don't learn... The parents lost both their kids for the same reason.

[JRB11]

Yea, it's tragic. I have to admit to driving drunk, oh, almost every weekend for my last 2 years in school, not to mention under a herbal influence. Damn lucky I didn't kill myself or someone else. I have a little empathy for these idiots, because I were one!