Sad... French Chop Down Historic 'Name Trees' Carved by U.S. Soldiers During Normandy

[AngryBob]

This actually bothered me, so I won't comment.

The names "Thomas and Dorothy" were carved in the bark of one trunk. Another said "Bob and Carma." Other trees were marked with soldiers’ home states — Iowa, Maine or Alabama — and several bore hearts and the names or initials of a wife or girlfriend.

The beech trees of Saint Pierre de Varengeville-Duclair forest in France bore a poignant testimony to the D-Day landings for more than six decades. Thousands of American soldiers stationed there after the liberation of Normandy spent their spare hours with a knife or bayonet creating a lasting reminder of their presence.

Although the trees grew and the graffiti swelled and twisted, this most peculiar memory of one of the 20th century’s defining moments remained visible — until now. Amid bureaucratic indifference and a dispute between officials and the forest owner, most of the trees have been felled, chopped up and turned into paper.

Claude Quétel, a French historian and World War II specialist, was horrified when he discovered what he called a catastrophe and a shameless act. "It is a typically French failing to wipe out the traces of the past," he told The Times. "I am indignant."

Local people are calling for the few "name trees" that still stand to be classified as historic monuments and saved from the same fate.

More here... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366467,00.html

[dougage]

What FAGS!! That is pathetic......

[Brianj]

As long as they're chopping down all the "Frizt liebt Helga" trees, too...

[NightLandNav]

As long as they're chopping down all the "Frizt liebt Helga" trees, too...

Unless I've missed my guess, I'd say those were firewood a long time ago.

After all, the French notoriously dislike the name "Helga". ;)

[ZAT]

Guess they must have gotten tired of even their trees reminding them that they are a bunch of pussies. Easier to chop down a tree than grow some balls. Fucking frogs.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

Angry Bob, you should have reposted the rest of the article that says who chopped them down and why.
The beech trees are described as one of the finest World War II relics left in Normandy, but local officials deemed them unsafe. They ordered Patrice Robin, 79, who owns the land, to prune branches overhanging the road.

"I said no at first," he said. "But they threatened to take action against me."

It costs about $1,200 to prune a beech tree but only about $300 to cut it down. Robin chose the cheaper option. "It’s complete madness, but I couldn’t do anything else."
The government didn't order the trees cut down.
They just told the landowner that the trees on his property that were along side the road needed to be trimmed because the branches were causing a hazard.
That is reasonable.

The owner of the property (one man... not the French government) decided to chop them down rather than trim them.
He claimed it was more expensive to trim them than chop them down.
Well, in truth, I'm sure he could have contacted some historical societies or veterans groups and gotten the funds to pay for the trimming... or at least tried.

Shockingly, FOXNews is slightly exaggerating in their headline by saying the "French Chop Down Historic 'Name Trees' Carved by U.S. Soldiers During Normandy Invasion"
Truth is... one French man... not the French.

[NightLandNav]

...
Shockingly, FOXNews is slightly exaggerating in their headline by saying the "French Chop Down Historic 'Name Trees' Carved by U.S. Soldiers During Normandy Invasion"
Truth is... one French man... not the French.

FOX couldn't even give me a little "socks on the carpet then touch a doorknob" static discharge type shock at this point. ;)

When one of your senior news talk show hosts makes a comedy actor like Stephen Colbert, who parodies news talk show hosts, look smart...yourcredibilityisinfuckingtrouble.

[MixedLoad]

Guess they must have gotten tired of even their trees reminding them that they are a bunch of pussies. Easier to chop down a tree than grow some balls. Fucking frogs.

Your post is a shining example of ignorance.

[AngryBob]

Angry Bob, you should have reposted the rest of the article that says who chopped them down and why.

Thats why I preceded the article with sad, not evil! I normally don't paste the entire article, just the base story. But in this case I should have been more careful, as I can see it is out of context. But in the end state they are still being cut and it is still the French!

[Bravo Five Romeo]

...and it is still the French!

It is one Frenchman... not the French.
Not even an official... just an individual land owner.

Just as I'm sure we could both think of individual Americans whose actions or beliefs we would not want other nations to think of as the actions or beliefs of all Americans.
;)

[NightLandNav]

Thats why I preceded the article with sad, not evil! I normally don't paste the entire article, just the base story. But in this case I should have been more careful, as I can see it is out of context. But in the end state they are still being cut and it is still the French!

If you go right now and piss on the wall outside the French Embassy...and they say "Les Américains pissent sur notre mur!"

I'll say "Uno mon momento le Messhure Frendo." "Le Americano-qua, la pissente on le wall-e-vous...No iz wiss us-e-vous, la by-himself-e-vous."

"Comprend-e-vous?"

"Yeah, fuck you to le dickhead."


Maybe I'm not the guy to send, but you get my point. One man does not a country make.

...yes, except for George Washington and Ronald Reagan.

[AngryBob]

Whoa buddy, I am not trying to start a fight over this article. Just wanted folks to hear about it. I really do not have anything against the French. Actually, the opposite is true as I worked with some on a few different occasions. But you might want to contact this guy as well. He is perhaps better qualified than us to address the situation. Sorry if I had insulted anyone with the article.

Claude Quétel, a French historian and Second World War specialist, was horrified when he discovered what he called a catastrophe and a shameless act. “It is a typically French failing to wipe out the traces of the past,” he told The Times. “I am indignant.”

[Bravo Five Romeo]

I wasn't insulted or trying to fight either.
I hope I didn't come across that way.

[NightLandNav]

The part of your post I highlighted in red...if it had been written "a guy over there who is cutting them down." Voilà, pas du problème.

France is irrelevant, the Farmer is the single problem.

Comprenez-vous la différence ?

...buddy. ;)


With a name like "Angry Bob" I initially feel like I need to be a little more assertive when I reply to posts.

...after all, you're already angry. :D

[MixedLoad]

Je ne savait pas que tu parle le Français, NightLandNav!

[AngryBob]

I think I get it now. A French guy living in France that speaks French cut down a tree in France; therefore he is Cambodian. Got it! I guess I'm just slow. All good fun. :rolleyes:
AB

[MixedLoad]

I think I get it now. A French guy living in France that speaks French cut down a tree in France; therefore he is Cambodian. Got it! I guess I'm just slow. All good fun. :rolleyes:
AB

One man's actions do not equate an entire populations sentiments. Otherwise I'm sure you'd agree that all Americans are a direct reflection of someone like Rosie O'Donnell.

[KidA]

Well now that this has international attention perhaps someone will set up a fund somewhere to ensure that farmers told that they have trees that can kill the fuck out of someone, but have some historical carvings on them, will have a place to go to to secure funding to help take care of the matter without having to go to the extreme of felling the entire tree.

This happened to my dad - one of his pine trees was leaning over. Power company did a check, said the tree had to go and my dad could cut it, or they would and bill him. Now would it have mattered if Thomas Jefferson himself had planted that tree? No, because even Old Tom would say that if the tree is in danger of killing someone that it should be taken down.

Who knows anything about the guy who cut it? maybe he isn't aware he could have sought funding to help save it, maybe Vets groups weren't aware some of these trees even still exist, or that some may be in danger of being cut down for safety reasons.

Maybe now they are.

Because I doubt there is a person on this board that would say it is worth keeping a tree up if it meant one day it would fall on your son or daughter.

[NightLandNav]

I think I get it now. A French guy living in France that speaks French cut down a tree in France; therefore he is Cambodian. Got it! I guess I'm just slow. All good fun. :rolleyes:
AB

OK, no...it makes him a Frenchman or French. (Note the singular tense.)

It does not make him the French.

Nor Cambodian.

Cambodia is a whole other geographical location and political entity. I realise that from the mid 19th to 20th century it was a part of French Indo-China...but that alone is not enough to call a Frenchman in France a Cambodian.


;)

[AngryBob]

I get it, trust me.

[AngryBob]

Here is a photo of one of the trees.4216

[NightLandNav]

Fuck, that sucks they're being lost. And I thought it sucked before. The carvings are much more legible and comprehensive than I imagined they'd be.

Damn shame.

[Flying Pig]

I bet there are plenty of organizations out there who would have donated money to have the trees trimmed. Thats a sad story.

[AngryBob]

This guy "CLAUDE QUETEL" quoted in the article has penned a good collection of books. I am trying to find an email address for him. I am curious what is left and if anything can be done.

http://www.crhq.cnrs.fr/cv/Q/QUETEL-PUB.html

[Offroad]

AngryBob, does this address not work? claude.quetel@wanadoo.fr

[Bravo Five Romeo]

All I know is I never took you for a "save the trees" hippie type of guy.
I'm shocked to see how many tree huggers we have here.
:D

[RipperTOW]

All the SOCNET Francophiles have come out for this one I see.

France is so uniquely out-of-step with all things American that this is relevant news, whether it was a private land-owner or not. No, one man does not a country make. But this is not the first example to come from the Land of the Beaujolais either. One event like this by itself is not significant of much. An event like coming from the wellspring of Continental anti-Americanism deserves to be analyzed differently.

[AngryBob]

AngryBob, does this address not work? claude.quetel@wanadoo.fr Ahh, yes I think..Ok, I will read all of the links I post.. Thanks:o

[NightLandNav]

Go to Paris, Nice and Cannes and do some world class fucking a few times before you judge my "francophile" ass.

Friendo.

[RipperTOW]

Go to Paris, Nice and Cannes and do some world class fucking a few times before you judge my "francophile" ass.

Friendo.

I've spent plenty of time and more money on my AMEX than I care to remember in the most over-rated travel destination in all of Europe. In retrospect, apart from the American Cemetary at Normady, Las Vegas would have been more spiritually rewarding (and probably cheaper).

[MixedLoad]

I've spent plenty of time and more money on my AMEX than I care to remember in the most over-rated travel destination in all of Europe. In retrospect, apart from the American Cemetary at Normady, Las Vegas would have been more spiritually rewarding (and probably cheaper).

Instead of spending your time trying to deal with the Oligarch jetset in Cannes and Nices, you'd have been better off spending some time on the coast of Brittany in a small bed and breakfast or 3 star hotel.

To compare Paris to Las Vegas is ridiculous. If you need spirituality you should try Nepal. They've got a good thing going on there.

[RipperTOW]

Las Vegas is way better. For one, they actually have "Paris" there and with a fantastic buffet to boot.

Seriously, I have spent a ton of time there on several trips and I don't know any oligarchs and I have never been to Nice. I've got good family friends outside of Paris, and they're not even allowed to change the shutters on their house because it could ruin the ambiance of the neighborhood. The French government and its municipalities regularly and with a certain pride deny private citizens prerogatives with their property in the interest of preserving "culture." Examples abound, as the one listed above. The very fact that this did not even make the radar in France is significant in the context of that culture.

I've been to Normandy, seen the beaches and Point du Hoc, put flowers down at the intersection in St. Lo where my great uncle was killed in 1944, visited the museums, etc, etc. The American Cemetary at Omaha Beach is beautiful. The sacrifice was overwhelming. I would like to see, at a minimum, less indifference on this matter.

Personally, I think it is symptomatic of a pathological arrogant disdain for all things American which bubbles just beneath the surface of the average French soul. But even if you do not agree with that, I think it is remarkable that in a country so obsessed with the preservation of the culture and ambiance of the past, that these trees were viewed no more significantly by the people there than so much firewood.

[CV]

This is funny

[MixedLoad]

... I've got good family friends outside of Paris, and they're not even allowed to change the shutters on their house because it could ruin the ambiance of the neighborhood. The French government and its municipalities regularly and with a certain pride deny private citizens prerogatives with their property in the interest of preserving "culture." Examples abound, as the one listed above.

That same thing happens in the US in historical districts. Nothing really new there, nor big Government infringing people's rights.

The very fact that this did not even make the radar in France is significant in the context of that culture.

I think it made the radar, but it's not a priority among the problems that France has as a nation.


I've been to Normandy, seen the beaches and Point du Hoc, put flowers down at the intersection in St. Lo where my great uncle was killed in 1944, visited the museums, etc, etc. The American Cemetary at Omaha Beach is beautiful. The sacrifice was overwhelming. I would like to see, at a minimum, less indifference on this matter.

I agree with you on the indifference being a little bit bothersome, however to say that a bureaucratic decision made at the municipal level should be indicative of a culture as a whole is ridiculous.

Personally, I think it is symptomatic of a pathological arrogant disdain for all things American which bubbles just beneath the surface of the average French soul.

I don't think there are too many nations in this world who really embrace all things American. But there certainly isn't any effort being made (this thread serves as a prime example, as well as some of the member signature lines) to solve the issue.

But even if you do not agree with that, I think it is remarkable that in a country so obsessed with the preservation of the culture and ambiance of the past, that these trees were viewed no more significantly by the people there than so much firewood.

They weren't viewed as firewood. Some municipal bureaucrat decided they posed a safety hazard. Therefore they were chopped down. Did people not object to it? Do you think they had a bonfire and laughed it up after the trees were burned? No. They didn't. And to insinuate that the trees were chopped down to piss on American heritage is non-sense.

[MixedLoad]

This is funny

Feel free to expound on your statement.

[NightLandNav]

I've spent plenty of time and more money on my AMEX than I care to remember in the most over-rated travel destination in all of Europe. In retrospect, apart from the American Cemetary at Normady, Las Vegas would have been more spiritually rewarding (and probably cheaper).

You shouldn't have gone to Euro Disney.





OK, as for Normandy...like Arlington, I felt like I was in the Holy of Holies.

In that regard I am tracking with you 100% ...and probably Vegas.


As for our "Francophile" debate...I'm sorry, but we simply haven't the capacity to take you all prisoner. Will there be anything else?

;)

[RipperTOW]

I agree with you on the indifference being a little bit bothersome, however to say that a bureaucratic decision made at the municipal level should be indicative of a culture as a whole is ridiculous.

Let's not pretend that this is not happening in the context of a long history. Nothing that happens related to the landmarks left by our soldiers in that countryside that should be taken out of the context of the whole history. On that basis I would assert that to view anything taking place with US history from WWII on their soil, as "just a municipal decision," is ridiculous as well.

I don't really care that much. Points taken.

[Greenhat]

Unless things have changed dramatically in the last 20 years, the French honor Americans with huge cemetaries, with monuments to the men who fought to liberate France, with a tremendous amount of the vestiges of WWII still in place...

France has had multiple huge wars fought over it. Birds still won't go close to Verdun (or wouldn't 20 years ago). Shall the French preserve every bit of memorabilia about every war fought on French soil? Turn France into one big museum? Will we pay for that?

It's sad that these trees have been cut down, but it isn't surprising. Sooner or later, trees come down, bullet holes are fixed, buildings are replaced. The fact that the French have done so much to commemorate the sacrifices made by the Allied Armies on their behalf are striking. They are far more than we have done to commemorate their sacrifice on our part in the late 1770s and early 1780s.

[CV]

Feel free to expound on your statement.

The conversation as a whole is funny to me. I see many aspects on both sides and yet the humor (for me) came in that not all of the article was provided in the first place. While I am not assuming that this was done on purpose, it was all too indicative of how information is spread throughout the world today. The old adage "Believe half of what you see and none of what you read" could not be more true. I think that the ability and power of the spoken word has been an extreme driving force in the history of humanity and has pushed our various cultures to develop in so many different ways. One day people will look back and study this era of humanity, they will refer to it as the "Information Age" as we do, yet historians will point out how beneficial and detrimental it was to humanity.

I hope that helps ;)

[s1chmoe]

I'd like to see a pic of one of those trees, I didn't know about them before this thread.

[NightLandNav]

I'd like to see a pic of one of those trees, I didn't know about them before this thread.

There is an image file viewable in post #21. You many have to adjust your "cookies" to see if you can't just now. Such files don't show for me unless my settings are adjusted to allow for it.

The pic of the tree in post #21 shows at least a half dozen carvings that are still very distinct after all these years. The image made the issue even more of a primary concern for me personally...considering the time table to save them.

The locals who are making an effort to save the remaining carvings should be getting any and all assistance from this side of the pond to do so.

[cb88]

Unless things have changed dramatically in the last 20 years, the French honor Americans with huge cemetaries, with monuments to the men who fought to liberate France, with a tremendous amount of the vestiges of WWII still in place...

France has had multiple huge wars fought over it. Birds still won't go close to Verdun (or wouldn't 20 years ago). Shall the French preserve every bit of memorabilia about every war fought on French soil? Turn France into one big museum? Will we pay for that?

It's sad that these trees have been cut down, but it isn't surprising. Sooner or later, trees come down, bullet holes are fixed, buildings are replaced. The fact that the French have done so much to commemorate the sacrifices made by the Allied Armies on their behalf are striking. They are far more than we have done to commemorate their sacrifice on our part in the late 1770s and early 1780s.


x2

I'm saddened ... it is part of history, but I know here we hate that the government steps in to perserve every little tiny spot that might be part of history (just drive down any Texas back highway and you'll see "historic marker ahead" about every 15 miles) and tells people they can't do something with THEIR land because of it. Many of us here on this board would do anything to perserve history on property we own, but also as people who cheerish freedom/liberty we recognize the right for others to do with their property what they choose (regardless if we agree with it).

Now, if they touch the cemeteries where our dead lay to rest, then I'll be one of the first to be "up in arms" as my uncle is resting there, in St. James, France at the Brittany American Cemetery.

His brother and all of us cousins would like to bring him back home -- it's very costly. Every few years Congress will start talking about bringing all those buried overseas home -- I don't know that it will ever happen.

As long as our service members rest peacefully over there, we (my family) can all live with it.

The trees are a part of history, but as someone said, trees die...it's sad, but they are not eternal.

[RipperTOW]

Well, I saw a follow up on FoxNews this morning on this and the latest is that local Frenchmen have taken up the issue with municipal gov to block the cutting of the trees. I guess I was off base on this one. Disculpame.

I stand by the buffet at Paris Las Vegas as the all around best French dining experience worldwide!!!

[AngryBob]

This guy "CLAUDE QUETEL" quoted in the article has penned a good collection of books. I am trying to find an email address for him. I am curious what is left and if anything can be done.[/url]

AngryBob, does this address not work? claude.quetel@wanadoo.fr

Yes, it worked fine..

Flag this message
Re: Trees noted in recent article
Sunday, June 15, 2008 9:05 AM
From:
"Claude QUETEL" <claude.quetel@wanadoo.fr>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
XXXXXX@XXXXXX.com
No, I don't know. Perhaps, you can ask to Nicolas Navarro <chateaudutaillis@online.fr> who is the young director of a small museum about August 44 in Normandy.
A paper is in preparation in The Times
Regards
CQ


Claude QUÉTEL
16, rue Bicoquet - 14000 CAEN
02 31 86 26 20
06 87 21 74 57
claude.quetel@wanadoo.fr




Le 14 juin 08 à 23:17, Robert B a écrit :

> Mr. Quetel,
> I recently seen you name mentioned in an article regarding trees being cut down in France that apparently host carvings from WW2 soldiers. Do you know if anyone has attempted to establish a way to preserve these trees through pruning rather than removal. It would seem their may be a few folks interested in establish a fund to maintain them, and I am curious of who to contact. I would be grateful for any information.
> Regards,
> XXXX XXXXX

[Offroad]

My pleasure. Glad I could be of assistance.

So now do you have to find out how to contact Nicolas Navarro?

[AngryBob]

I let Mike Yon know about the situation and he has placed it on his web site. A little more exposure does not hurt. I am not sure where this will lead, but I’m contacting some folks in the area. Hell, maybe a road trip with a chainsaw and a book on pruning tress is in order.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/

[Offroad]

Hey I know how to prune trees. Have chainsaw, will travel. :D




...ok, I can drag the limbs off that fall down.









....if they're not heavy. :o

[cb88]

Do you know if anyone has attempted to establish a way to preserve these trees through pruning rather than removal. It would seem their may be a few folks interested in establish a fund to maintain them, and I am curious of who to contact. I would be grateful for any information.
> Regards,
> XXXX XXXXX


I would think that could be done....we use logs to build log houses and in the Hill Country of Texas it's very popular to use "raw cedar" posts/logs as they are in the rough to "blend" into the scenary. whatever treatment they use for those, I would think could be tweaked and applied to these trees.

Perhaps perserving them and putting them in a museum is a very viable option. Maybe if it cost the landowner zero (rather than $300 a tree) for a historical society to fell the trees and take them away in tact for treatment and museum display he would be ok with it -- I mean, money was the bottom line as to why he didn't prune vs. chopping them down, right??

[NightLandNav]

True, that and timing.