NG enforcing traffic (Motorcycle helmet) violations?

[Matchanu]

From another website.

A good friend told me that a "friend" of his in law enforcement in NC who is a biker and who is going to the Smoke Out has stated that the governmental powers that be near the Smoke Out location have called in the National Guard this weekend to set up road blocks to check for helmet law violations. In doing this they will of course be citing for other violations and drunk driving.
He passed along this link from NC Abate regarding the helmet law and what to do:
http://www.cba-abatenc.org/helmet_citation.htm

I'm just passing info this along to everyone. It could be total BS, I don't know. It sounds a little far fetched to me. Better safe than sorry.

I borrowed a friends DOT HD brand helmet to take along just in case. I guess the mushroom look will be in this year instead of the metalflake 3/4 half helmets





Does the NG have the authority to do this?

Sounds like BS to me, but I'm not intimatly familier with NG guidlines.

[Husker19D30]

From another website.





Does the NG have the authority to do this?

Sounds like BS to me, but I'm not intimatly familier with NG guidlines.

Yes, and no. We can be granted the authority to act in a law enforcement capacity by the state governor for specific situations. This is usually reserved for times of civil unrest and emergencies, however.

I've never seen it applied to DUI or helmet checkpoints. Not sure that I'm a fan of such an application.

[ZAT]

As Husker pointed out, the NG can be used for civil LEO duties in case of emergency. I seriously doubt that a biker rally could be construed as an emergency by any stretch of the imagination though. Calling out the NG to run DUI/helmet checkpoints would be pretty silly. I doubt that any Governor wanting to get re-elected would piss away tax dollars on that public a front.

[DY]

I've seen National Guard assisting local law enforcement in New Orleans not more than two months ago, directing traffic on an accident scene and appearing very well enmeshed. I'm not a big fan of things like that going unchecked, either. Would they be violating posse cometatus by monitoring for traffic violations- surveillance of citizens? I'm just asking. If they actually wrote citations, then I wonder if that would qualify as martial law. And yea, I'll bet it muchly depends on the state constitution as to how the governor can employ them

On the other hand, didn't the President just authorize DoD to bypass governors consent in the utilization of NG during national emergency? It might be good to see a governor stretch some muscle. Checks and balance and all that.

[Frog]

The NG works for the State Governor under Title 32, USC. The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply. Martial Law does not have to be inacted. They do what the Governor tells them to do. Only when they are Federalized under Title 10 do they lose their law enforcement powers, like going to OIF / OEF.

[sierraseven]

My first reaction based on my (admittedly basic) knowledge of the relevant regs and laws is "possible, but unlikely".

I don't know about y'all, but anytime I see or hear the phrase "the powers that be" my bullshit flag goes up.

S7

[Whitebean54]

I've seen National Guard assisting local law enforcement in New Orleans not more than two months ago, directing traffic on an accident scene and appearing very well enmeshed.

The NG in NOLA are not allowed to arrest or issue summons/tickets etc. They can only "detainee" you until NOPD comes with a car to make the arrest.

Also, Louisiana is the one state that does not have Martial Law on the books. Something about the state falling under Napoleonic code.

The above comes from an Lt on TF Gator and the bottom is from a buddy in law school. I hope this helps.

[The Corporate Guy]

The NG works for the State Governor under Title 32, USC. The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply. Martial Law does not have to be inacted. They do what the Governor tells them to do. Only when they are Federalized under Title 10 do they lose their law enforcement powers, like going to OIF / OEF.

x2

That said, it is still hard to imagine NG being used to enforce helmet laws.

[Bushmaster]

The NC Guard is busy getting ready for the sandbox and a significant portion of them are currently at annual training.

Sounds like a lot of BS to me.

[Spinner]

The NG in most states is also very political. One of my former state reps in the legislature, whom I'm not very fond of, also held a career rank in the NG of Lt. Col. until the Governor of Illinois appointed him to head up the NG.

Next thing you know, he's wearing two stars on his collar.

[Bushmaster]

The NG in most states is also very political. One of my former state reps in the legislature, whom I'm not very fond of, also held a career rank in the NG of Lt. Col. until the Governor of Illinois appointed him to head up the NG.

Next thing you know, he's wearing two stars on his collar.


It happened in NC in the late 1980s.

[Whitebean54]

x2

That said, it is still hard to imagine NG being used to enforce helmet laws.



Yea, I agree...a little much

[Xdeth]

The law just changed here regarding DOT approved helmets, frankly my feelings on it are just like in the mil, if you want to wear a plastic yamika into combat then go for it! I love freedom! As for getting ticketed for this by the NG or whomever, you can beat that in court easily, my DOT sticker wore off! Or just bring another helmet, WTF?

[DY]

The NG in NOLA are not allowed to arrest or issue summons/tickets etc. They can only "detainee" you until NOPD comes with a car to make the arrest. When I mentioned "enmeshed" I meant he appeared to be minding his Ps and Qs. I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to be 'banished.' ;)

The NG in most states is also very political. One of my former state reps in the legislature, whom I'm not very fond of, also held a career rank in the NG of Lt. Col. until the Governor of Illinois appointed him to head up the NG.

Next thing you know, he's wearing two stars on his collar.
I don't think direct governor appointed is uncommon, but it is not necessarily a federally recognized commission (though that doesn't matter when one of his cronies is commanding a Bn in OEF). He may eventually benefit from that appointment in retirement. But when he steps down, I think he may find himself returning to his federally appointed rank for active service. Some here may remember a former state AG who returned to O-6 in order to stay active as a doc in SF.

I've heard that in some states, Adjutant General is even an elected position. Can't confirm.

[Tracy]

The NG works for the State Governor under Title 32, USC. The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply. Martial Law does not have to be inacted. They do what the Governor tells them to do. Only when they are Federalized under Title 10 do they lose their law enforcement powers, like going to OIF / OEF.

Dang, beat me to it...

[TPD1280]

To add to what Frog said about The relationship between the NG and the Governor, most State laws classify traffic violations as infractions (not crimes), and as such they must be witnessed by a sworn police officer, and she/he must fill out affidavit statement attesting to their witnessing the infraction.

The difference is a crime can be witnessed by a civilian, reported, investigated, and if sufficient evidence constituting probable cause exists, prosecuted. The police need not be first hand witnesses to the offense.

It would not be hard for a first year law student to get that ticket thrown out of court.

As DOT certification goes, DOT has not certified a helmet in over 30 years. Manufacturers police themselves by testing their own product IAW certain performance measures, but NO helmet on the market today is actually DOT certified.

[Tyr]

I doubt that any Governor wanting to get re-elected would piss away tax dollars on that public a front.


Easley's term is up. We have two new candiates running this year. I've never seen the NG out for anything. I've seen the ALE guys get called to events across the state. Sounds like we have a group here thats pissed because they have to wear a helmet. I've seen some pretty questionable buckets but as long as something was on the head. It also sounds like a community is upset because this event is happening. Anyone know where it is?

[Matchanu]

To add to what Frog said about The relationship between the NG and the Governor, most State laws classify traffic violations as infractions (not crimes), and as such they must be witnessed by a sworn police officer, and she/he must fill out affidavit statement attesting to their witnessing the infraction.

The difference is a crime can be witnessed by a civilian, reported, investigated, and if sufficient evidence constituting probable cause exists, prosecuted. The police need not be first hand witnesses to the offense.

It would not be hard for a first year law student to get that ticket thrown out of court.

As DOT certification goes, DOT has not certified a helmet in over 30 years. Manufacturers police themselves by testing their own product IAW certain performance measures, but NO helmet on the market today is actually DOT certified.

from the NHTSA

HOW TO IDENTIFY
UNSAFE MOTORCYCLE HELMETS
It’s clear ... Motorcycle helmets save lives. To help protect the lives of motorcycle riders, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) requires that all motorcycle helmets sold in the United States meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 218. This standard defines minimum levels of performance that helmets must meet to protect the head and brain in the event of a crash. Each year, DOT conducts compliance testing of a variety of motorcycle helmets to determine whether helmets being sold in the United States meet the Federal safety standard. Because helmets add such a critical margin of safety for motorcycle riders, many States now have laws requiring use of helmets that meet FMVSS 218 requirements. Some motorcycle riders are violating these State laws by wearing unsafe helmets that do not meet FMVSS 218. Most of these helmets are sold as novelty items and circumvent FMVSS 218’s requirements. In some cases, some motorcyclists purchase these helmets in the mistaken belief that they offer protection. However, many people who wear these novelty helmets know that they are unsafe – but wear them anyway. This brochure explains how to identify unsafe novelty helmets as well as how to distinguish unsafe helmets from those that meet the Federal safety standard.
Here is What to Check For:

Thick Inner Liner
Helmets meeting the minimum Federal safety standard have an inner liner usually about one-inch thick of firm polystyrene foam. Sometimes the inner liner will not be visible, but you should still be able to feel its thickness. Unsafe helmets normally contain only soft foam padding or a bare plastic shell with no padding at all. Sturdy Chin Strap and Rivets
Helmets meeting the DOT safety standard have sturdy chinstraps with solid rivets.
Weight of Helmet
Depending on design, unsafe helmets weigh only one pound or less. Helmets meeting FMVSS 218 generally weigh about three pounds. Become familiar with the weight of helmets that comply with the Federal safety standard. These helmets provide a more substantial feel.
Design/Style of Helmet
The DOT safety standard does not allow anything to extend further than two-tenths of an inch from the surface of a helmet. For example, while visor fasteners are allowed, a spike or other protruding decorations indicate an unsafe helmet.
A design such as the German Army style or skullcap style may be a clue to an unsafe helmet. Unsafe helmets are noticeably smaller in diameter and thinner than ones meeting the DOT standard. However, some German Army style helmet may meet Federal requirements.
You’ll need to check for weight, thickness, sturdy chinstraps, as well as the “DOT” and manufacturer’s labels to make sure the helmet meets the Federal safety standard. Familiarize yourself with brand names and designs of helmets that comply with DOT requirements. For example, a full-face design is a good indicator of a safe helmet. To date, we have never seen a full-face design novelty helmet.

DOT Sticker
Helmets that meet FMVSS 218 must have a sticker on the outside back of the helmet with the letters “DOT,” which certifies that the helmet meets or exceeds FMVSS 218. It is important to note that some novelty helmet sellers provide DOT stickers separately for motorcyclists to place on non-complying helmets. In this case, the DOT sticker is invalid and does not certify compliance.
Snell or ANSI Label
In addition to the DOT sticker, labels located inside the helmet showing that a helmet meets the standards of private, non-profit organizations such as Snell or the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) are good indicators that the helmet also meets the Federal safety standard. To date, we have never seen a novelty helmet that has a phony DOT sticker in addition to a phony Snell or ANSI label.
Manufacturer’s Labeling
Manufacturers are required under FMVSS 218 to place a label on or inside the helmet stating the manufacturer’s name, model, size, month and year of manufacture, construction materials, and owner’s information. A helmet that does not meet the Federal safety standard usually does not have such labeling.
Remember a DOT sticker on the back of the helmet and proper inside labeling do not necessarily indicate that a helmet meets all DOT requirements. Many helmets have counterfeit DOT stickers and a limited few also have manufacturer’s labeling. But the design and weight of a helmet, thickness of the inner liner, and the quality of the chin strap and rivets are extra clues to help distinguish safe helmets from non-complying ones.




http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...ages/page2.htm

[freqman]

If the state has the funds to spare, the governor can pretty much use the Guard in any capacity to preserve the peace and order, and can easily justify the call up for any large gathering where there may be an elevated risk of crime or terrorism. The only exception is personnel on AGR (Active Guard and Reserve) status where we may be used only in the event of immediate threat to life or property and then we are stood down as traditional Guard soldiers are stood up. Don't know about NC but FLNG may act in the capacity of a peace officers, not law enforcement: route traffic, establish checkpoints, provide security, detain and question suspicious individuals and violators, but not arrest or cite. A force multiplier for LE. We have a detainee information card that we fill out on any individuals we may have to detain and wait for the supported LE agency to come and determine whether to arrest or cite them. If the supported LEO encounters resistance from any individual then we are authorized to assist as directed by the LEO. No LEO direction is needed for self defense or defense of others from violence.

[Razor]

Isn't Title 32 when the NG is still under state control, but receiving federal funding (as opposed to State Active Duty, where they are under state control and are funded by the state)?

Want to make all this more interesting? Ask our Coastie friends to explain Title 14 status (federal law enforcement authority, concurrent with Title 32 AND Title 10). :eek:

[Spinner]

I don't think direct governor appointed is uncommon, but it is not necessarily a federally recognized commission (though that doesn't matter when one of his cronies is commanding a Bn in OEF). He may eventually benefit from that appointment in retirement. But when he steps down, I think he may find himself returning to his federally appointed rank for active service. Some here may remember a former state AG who returned to O-6 in order to stay active as a doc in SF.



You're right, He didn't retain the rank when a new NG commander was appointed. I suppose they have some sort of formula to take his time as commander into consideration upon retirement.

As for the NG checking for motorcycle helmet violations, if they've got time enough for that, we've got even bigger problems than I thought.

[TPD1280]

Each year, DOT conducts compliance testing of a variety of motorcycle helmets to determine whether helmets being sold in the United States meet the Federal safety standard...

This is testing, this is not the same as certification, and the DOT stickers are put on by the manufacturer.

Many helmets have counterfeit DOT stickers and a limited few also have manufacturer’s labeling. But the design and weight of a helmet, thickness of the inner liner, and the quality of the chin strap and rivets are extra clues to help distinguish safe helmets from non-complying ones.

So a consumer is supposed to be able to tell a fake from a real, even though they both have the DOT seal of approval?