Open water swim techniques and TTPs

[PocketKings]

Hoping some of you with experience training newbies can help me out with some questions:

I've done a few open water triathlons (10-15), including an Ironman (Wisconsin) and have been 'swimming' for about 5 years. Before that the closest I got was beating the water into submission in Ranger School. My swim form is horrific and I come out of the water in an Oly distance tri 4-5 minutes down. I am also getting out of the water smoked. It takes me 5 miles on the bike to recover. I literally go into the swim 1) hoping not to drown, 2) Hoping not to look like a jackass or 3) both.

So, this season I'm working on my form, taking everything back to basics. I got an instructional DVD on open water specific freestyle techniques with drills and am starting to realize how little I realize. I plan on seeing a coach after the summer but for now I have to survive the season.

The DVD I got specifies a technique on elongating the stroke and rotating the body, two things I never considered. I have heard that a form of this style is taught in Indoc at BUD/S. Apparently it's not 'conventional' from a traditional POV? Honestly, I don't even know what conventional is.

I was hoping for some input, drills, tips, etc on this particular technique as well as anything that might help for open water type stuff (sighting, breathing, drafting, not dying..). I'd really like to hear from guys who teach this stuff to land based creatures to get them GTG. You know, crawl-walk type stuff.

Thanks in advance.

[Domino]

I can't tell you what goes on a BUD/s, having not been there, but I am an experienced triathlete and Masters swimmer.

Here's what I think you need to do, the best thing..... find the nearest Masters Swim Team and join. The coached workouts will get you straight in a hurry, especially on matters of good form in the water.

Swimming is about being efficient in the water. Some say "having a feel for the water." Whatever. A swim coach will see what you are doing, correct those things that need correcting and help you be a more efficient swimmer.

28 years ago, I did what you are doing, just heading off to the Y to swim, swim, swim until I was pooped. I had always been able to swim, but never a competitive one. Then, my training partner and I had the chance to help start a Masters swim team. The coaching made all the difference in the world. The coach kept pointing out techniques, tips, form improvements, etc. My 1 mile time dropped to less than 2/3rds of what it had been.

It's like golf. Sure, you can go out and hit the ball without any coaching, but a few lessons can make a huge difference. Swimming is much the same.

[Dutch8654]

Elongate the stroke and put an "S" in the sweep if your not doing so already. Relax...like a marathon runner trying to hold a longer stride over a greater amount of time. Increase the rotation of the body as the sea state dictates your not in a pool anymore.

[Chubs]

I have nothing to add to this thread. I just wanted to say that I did my first open water swim today. The goal was 800m. I ended up breaking it up. Around 650 was swam, while about 150 was walked through chest deep water. I'm not quite sure why I decided to go out there with them and do this. I haven't done anything swimming for two years and then I try this. Damn I was stupid, but possibly better for having done it?

[CAP MARINE]

is what your thinking of the combat swimmer stroke? just a thought.i dont have too many!

[ReconB2]

Never been in the Navy, or BUD/S for that matter, however, have raced triathlons, including open water swims.

Domino and Dutch agree with me.....reach, elongate....whatever. Get out there and the water will definitely dictate ;)

B2

[T-Rock]

Being one that plows through the water, I don't have much to offer regarding technique (~24-28min 1500's for oly distance). However I will say this, if you haven't already, practice drafting with your swim buddy......it's the only time during a tri where drafting is legal and it works......:D rubicon & I used to practice drafting quite often and it will definitely pay off come race day....

The closer you are to the dude in front of you the better. In fact, with each stroke, you should virtually be tickling the heels of his feet with you fingertips. This will get you close enough so the bubbles from the swimmer in front of you will assist in your buoyancy, and the water he's plowing will drag you forward with very little effort.

After employing this strategy, I stopped coming out of the water in a lactic acidosis and I quit seeing spots in T-1 :D

[ReconB2]

T-Rock wrote: After employing this strategy, I stopped coming out of the water in a lactic acidosis and I quit seeing spots in T-1

X2!


B2

[PocketKings]

T-Rock, add 2-6 minutes to your time and get mine. 2 minutes if it's wetsuit. Like I said, weak-fu.

Again, I'm looking at a coach in the offseason and after things slow down a bit.

As for drafting - I employ this tactic wholeheartedly. However, it's tough finding a granny to draft behind when my age group is 30-35.

[tasteefeesh]

its difficulft if you have sub par techinque to just jump in the water and just start out with laps, i usually feel rigid as hell in there if i dont do a couple dives and some unerwater swimming first just to loosen up and prime the lungs. eventually i figured out on my own what i was doing wrong. glide

[Expatmedic]

... in a lactic acidosis and I quit seeing spots in T-1 :D

Quitter:D

So, here is my question. What is the difference between "open water" swimming and say laps in a pool. Technique?

I started swimming laps in my pool. This is to keep in some kind of shape so I don't suck an 80 dry when diving. Other than laps should I be doing something different?

[grappler]

So, here is my question. What is the difference between "open water" swimming and say laps in a pool. Technique?


For one, you're much more bouyant in the ocean which keeps your body, especially your lower half from sinking (drag) and keeps you on the surface. Add a wetsuit and you're going to slide through the water like a dick in Jenna's pussy.;)

[s1chmoe]

don't underestimate the value of your kicks, i usually swam and kicked small and fast (not very deep) but it kept my body planed out, which helps speed and reduces your drag in the water. I think the masters swim program is for you, prepare to get smoked, but it will pay off

[s1chmoe]

to add, whenever i swam laps, the first 400 yds or so were just warmup and usually the hardest, then i was able to go all out (almost anyway) for an hour. used to love those swims from the pier of SDV-1 to the beach by the coronado bridge.

[Domino]

to add, whenever i swam laps, the first 400 yds or so were just warmup and usually the hardest, then i was able to go all out (almost anyway) for an hour. used to love those swims from the pier of SDV-1 to the beach by the coronado bridge.

Ocean swimming is one of my favorite activities. I love the swim from La Jolla Cover over to the Shores and back. It's probably a mile and a half round trip. There used to be an event that involved a swim all the way around Coronado from Glorietta Bay out around NASNI back to the Hotel, but I haven't seen or heard anything about that in many years.

The biggest difference between lap swimming and open water swimming is that if you find yourself executing a flip turn, you've probably messed up somewhere.

[magician]

I am not an expert swimmer, but I do swim every day. The following comments may be useful to some.

1. Swimming is, as has been noted, extremely dependent on good form.

2. Speaking only for myself, I learned about form by using a mask and snorkel.

Rather than turning my head to either side to breathe, and by reducing the need to roll so hard to either side to support breathing, using a snorkel enables me to simply put my face in the water and to start swimming.

The snorkel also gives me the ability to omit body roll completely, or to include it, varying my stroke, as seems good to me. It also makes it easier to swim longer distances with less fatigue.

I do not have a swim coach available to me, and I will never swim in open water unless I am in a boat that sinks. (I am afraid of sharks, barracuda, jellyfish, stonefish, orcas, moray eels, giant squid, and crabs).

3. I also use hand paddles. There are different designs, so I have tested several different versions. Now, I switch them out to vary my workouts. Using paddles helps you focus on stroke mechanics. They also help you work against much greater resistance, and so improve your upper body workout.

4. I also use small fins. These give me better propulsion, and help me crank more laps.

It can be extremely mind-numbing to swim laps in a pool with an inefficient stroke and poor kick technique. I make it a point to swim for one hour, no more, no less. Not paying attention to the time, or to my lap times, helps me pay more attention to my form.

I survived Pre-Scuba, and not in a distinguished fashion. When the company clerk asked me when I wanted to go to scuba school, I told him "never, please."

I like to breathe too much.

:)

[KSM]

Some good advice here. Form will make or break you in a swim. It's all about minimizing drag, and maximizing your thrust vs. physical output. As Dutch said above, adding an "S" pattern to your hands as you draw through the water helps a great deal. Ideally, you want to keep your torso and legs as parallel to the surface as possible, letting your arms and legs do the real work. If you figure out how to keep your body "planed" parallel to the surface, and get the timing of your arm stroke and leg kick coordinated, you'll start to glide and get into a good rhythm. A lot of swimmers let their lower body "hang," and they end up basically doing a modified doggy paddle. It's basically the difference between shooting an arrow through the air, and shooting a wet rag. Hopefully this makes some kind of sense, I'm not sure I'm articulating what I mean very well tonight!

[PocketKings]

Since I'm working on form, I'm also trying to learn to breathe from both sides so I can sight the course and other swimmers better. It's inevitable that the course goes couter-clockwise when I breathe to the right.

And drafting is cool until the cat in front of you tires of you hiting his feet and throws in a reverse stroke, shoving your goggles into your ocular cavity.

[T-Rock]

And drafting is cool until the cat in front of you tires of you hiting his feet and throws in a reverse stroke, shoving your goggles into your ocular cavity.

BTDT…..:D That’s why it takes a lot of practice……:D
4328

[rubicon]

Swim workout tip.
In your pool workouts-swim first 15-20 minutes at an easy pace-one you could keep at for an hour or so. Then-every 4th length pick the pace up significantly-for just one length of pool. Next 3 lengths should be back to the easy pace then repeat. This is similar to a "fartlek" workout on your run days.
Trock and I did these workouts while preparing for Ironman Florida and I noticed that my swimming pace and endurance went through the roof.
I also got a video on proper form and technique that was easy to understand and apply to my workouts. I believe it was from Multisport.com and was no longer than 15-20 minutes or so. I loaned it out to a buddy and never got it back so I dont have the specifics.
Total Immersion has some incredible drills and instruction too but the cost was a little more than I wanted to spend but talked to some guys who went thru it and they saw their swim times drop dramatically. They were in the pool at the same time we were and the drills seemed all about form.
Good luck to you.

Rubicon

[JDAM]

So, here is my question. What is the difference between "open water" swimming and say laps in a pool. Technique?

Keep in mind that if swimming in any kind of moving water body, i.e. ocean, bay, etc...that you will be getting your ass kicked by waves the whole time. Therefore, the secret is to swim underwater as much as possible, taking the path of least resistance. If you try to rough it on the surface, you're in for a long day...

[RGRJN]

I too used to beat the water into submission. Okay actually beat my self into submission but..... My cure was Total Immersion. I bought the book and read it.
Boring and redundant in areas. Felt like a total geek at the pool, everybody swimming laps and I'm doing form drills. But it did work, went from being smoked at 400 to an Ironman swim, no sweat in 6 months. It's been said before, it's all about form. I'm not fast, don't get me wrong, but I'm not smoked either. The book was well worth the money, I got the videos too, they sucked. Other than as a visual, you can get the same thing on the net for free

Joe