Snipers

[WISHMASTER]

Is there a differance between a S.E.A.L. Sniper and a Marine Sniper? Do each attend differant schools and how does their training and missions differ?

[SSD]

SEAL Snipers are used to provide precision shooting while engaged in operations with their Platoon. Marine Scout/Snipers are used primarily for reconnaissance and surveillance and also hunt in two man teams in time of war. There are different schools to gain Sniping experience in the Military and the SEAL’s can pretty much go to any one they want. Two SEAL’s just graduated from 1 Mar Div Scout/Sniper School (one of the better schools in the world).

[DemoPup]

SSD, you sadi SEALs train at Marine 1 Div. , I was told by a SEAL recruiter that the SEAL sniper trained at the highly famous Marine S/S training grounds at Quantico..... do they still??

[Mirou]

Do SEAL snipers use the M40.
I've heard it said you would be hard pressed
to find a better rifle.

[SSD]

There are a few Snipers schools available to the military. Two SEAL's graduated 1 Mar Div school the other month but they could have gone to another school. They just wanted the best training available.

SEAL Snipers usually use the .300 Win Mag but with all their money I'm sure they could use whatever they want.

[Duster]

I heard they also use the Barret M82

[lonefrog]

what do you have to do if you want to become a sniper in the SEAls?

[DemoPup]

i heard that SEALs use the upgraded version of the M40A1 that is the M40A2... considered a better weapon.... As for the M82a1 they use that but i heard for the big stuff that needs to be takin out they use the M88.

[SSD]

I don't think those SEAL's would be to happy using a weapons system built by Marines when there is so much exotic stuff out there.

[DemoPup]

No it isn't made by marines at all.... i forget the company, but i saw it on some Sniping site. Besides... it is understandable though.. lets face it.. SEALs run the show in the water on land and air, but no one said nothing about sniping..... And the longest recorded confirmed kill was done my the M40A1, the M40A2 is similar, but improved.

[SSD]

Then who do you think makes the M40A1? Also, the longest recorded kill was made by Gunny Hathcock with an M-2 with Unertl attached.

Tell me more about the M40A2?

[Andy0331]

Demo Pup, the M40A1, is only manufactured by the Marine Corps. They are made by 2112's (Rifle Team Equipment armorers) and are true custom built rifles. There are a few companies out there that cliam to make an M40A1, but none are true M40's, the closest you will find is made by Iron Brigade Armory in Jax, NC and they only employ former RTE's. Even with a copy of the M40 you cannot obtain the Unertyl 10x scope, it is no longer available to civilians (there are a few out there priced around $7,000+, if you find one) Currently (at least when I was on active duty) the only people using the Unertyl were the Corps and the FBI.
And yes SEALs can go to SS at WTBn, Quantico.
Hope this helps,
Andy

[LOCHNESS2]

DemoPup, you need to do more research on Spec Ops before you make statements so matter-of-factly. If you are seriously considering trying out for any Spec Ops unit you should try and find out what their specific jobs are. Thinking that a single unit "runs the show" is incorrect. If that were true there would be no need for Marine Force Recon, Army Special Forces, Delta, and Rangers.
LOCHNESS OUT

[DemoPup]

I never said that SPEC OPS was unnecessary... I'm just saying that Marine Snipers train quiet a few people... Almost all snipers go to Quantico because thats the place to go if you want to be a rifleman. And i never said that companies made the M40A1.. I knwo its made my special armorers at Quantico... The M40A2.. can though be bought be a regular shmoe.. I have seen sites that sell them... I'm no SEAL, not yet atleast.. i hope to be.. but i know quiet a bit about them.... also I;ve seen unertl scopes at 99% quality (minor scratches) for sale for a grand... SSD The kill was made with and M-2? i read some where it was with a M40A1... thats the only rifle i ever heard of the Gunny using in the feild..

[DemoPup]

SSD..... the info on the M40A2... is here... i have some more sites.. i'm looking for some more detailed info on specs and stuff... but here is the
site.. http://www.sniper-store.com/rifles2.htm

[LRSC Grunt]

Demopup,
I think that the gun SSD is refering to is M-2 .50 Cal Machine Gun set to single shot with a rigged Unertl scope on top.

Remember your talking to professionals with military backgrounds not high school teenagers like yourself.

[DemoPup]

LRSC Grunt...... I wasn't saying he was wrong...... I was just saying... i read that he made it with a M40A1 and that i never heard of him using any other gun.... while i'm not saying he never used any other gun.. i'm just saying i never heard of him using that as the record holding gun.... And by you implying that just cause i'm a highschooler i wouldn't know anything about sniping your wrong.... sure i couldn't tell ya the art of sniping or even using the mil dot reticle.... but i know a bit about it... I at one time wanted to be a sniper... but my 20/40 vision will probably stop me from ever being a frog sniper....

[SSD]

Pup, to set you straight, 2112's at Quantico are the only ones that make M40's. This rifle you found is just a civilian version. If I take a rifle, throw a scope on it and call it an M-40A2 does that make it THE Marine Sniper rifle?

The Corps is in the process of rolling out its newest version of the rifle, the M-40A3. There never was nor will there ever be a production model M-40A2. As for the Unertl, they are sensitive items that are not available to the public. If you find one for sale, you’re being scammed. If not, call the local FBI office and report it.

[LRSC Grunt]

DemoPup,
Try reading Marine Sniper : 93 Confirmed Kills its been a while since I read it but I remember it has something about his record kill.

Also.. I dont think you understand what I said or it didnt quite sink in..Remember... you are talking to professionals not high school kids like yourself.

[shurefire]

Demopup, nobody is cutting you down or anything because you're in high school, fact of the matter is the BTDT's that grace this site are glad to tell us "wannabe/gonnabe's" how shit really works. Not what we have read or seen in magazines/books. So listen carefully to 'em, they're here to help us get up to their operating level like we want to someday.
Shurefire out.

[DemoPup]

I understand what your sayin now.. sorry if i stepped on some toes.... Yeah SSD.. the guy claimed to be a collector of that sort of stuff.. i can find the site again and show it to ya... Yeah i would like to thank all of you guys for commenting and settign soem of the stuff i said straight.... but SSD.. i did read and i am 95% sure that SEALs use the M40A2.... i am going to contact the main recruiter on the West coast and see if he can clear this all up .. i will let you guys know what happens....sorry if i said some stuff out of line... just trying to set soemthing straight...

[DemoPup]

For all those interested the sites i was talking abotu for the scopes are right here.... if you want to check authenticity (sorry if thats spelled wrong) here they are...
http://members.aol.com/fekker/page2.html
http://www.championshooters.com/Scopes.htm

Let me know what ya think.... thanks

[Andy0331]

Demo Pup,
The links you show do indeed offer Unertyls for sale, however, much like any other scope manufacturer they have many different models. The one in use by the Corps is an Unertyl fixed power 10x telescopic sight, it can be identified by it's obvious appearance (to those that have seen one) but on the left hand side it is marked USMC SNIPER with the serial number below it and the Unertyl logo above it. The very few that made it to the civilian world were identical except they were marked 10X SNIPER, these went to law enforcement, some of these have made it into civilian hands. Now the Corps has used Unertyl scopes before and these are sometimes available, but they are not the current model scope and in no way similar to what is out there now. Feel free to e-mail me & I will send you some scans of what a REAL M40A1 & scope look like.
Andy
kilat@atlantic.net

[LRSC Grunt]

Well obviously...its impossible to "tactically" hump an entire M-2 gun system but it is the longest recorded kill.

[Andy0331]

Weapons Guy,
WTF??? if you're saying that Remington builds the M40 receiver, sure your right. As far as the rest of the rifle, REALLY it is built (put together) by Marine Corps armorers. This includes a McMillan stock bedding the stock, installing a Winchester Model 70 triggerguard & floorplate, new barrels (makes vary, but have been from Hart, HS Precision & others). As for the Unertyl scope, I know they were being made at least until 1989. When I got out in '96 they were still on the M40A1 & I really doubt they have been canned yet. Thinking of this, the Corps uses the Unertyl on the M82A1 SASR (otherwise know as the Barrett .50 cal.). The Barrett wasn't adopted until Desert Storm and the Unertyl scopes were made for it with new BDC cams to accomodate the .50 cal cartridge & range out to 1800 meters.
Now I may be wrong, but I doubt it. I'll admit that sometimes civillian life keeps me out of touch with current events in the Marine Corps, anyone who really knows (read Marine 8541) care to answer. Jump in SSD.
Andy
kilat@atlantic.net

[SSD]

Weapons Cadet, there are NO Luepold MK4 series scopes on any M40-A1's in the Corps. If you think Remington makes the M40's you are a putz! The 10x USMC Unertl is a sensative military item. The FBI can come a calling if you have one. You might not be in high school but then again you probably dropped out.

[Andy0331]

SSD, thanks for stepping in sir! As for you weapons guy, I think you are a shit talking fool. I don't know where you get your information, but I don't think you have the whole picture. If the Corps does indeed have the MK 4, which model M1 or M3? Lets see, the M1 has 1/4 min adjustments, but no BDC. Great scope for sure, but not what the Corps needs. The M3 has the BDC, but not 1/4 min adjustments. Again, not what the Corps needs.
Hmmm, Quantico, I'm sure SSD has been there, and I KNOW I have. I was there from '93-'94 as an machinegun instructor at TBS & IOC when I was a Cpl. I went to the Scout Sniper Basic course in '94 at WTBN Quantico, at SSIS. Hey, maybe you really do know all and we Marines should bow before you & all your great knowledge, then again, Hell No!!
Andy

[Andy0331]

Weapons Guy, also if you feel the need to further "enlighten" we Marines. Please post on the Scout Sniper forum on USMCNET.
Andy

[SSD]

Weapons Idiot. Where the hell did manufacture come from? Back to my other posting "If you think Remington makes the M40's you are a putz" Kid, you are a putz! Also, since your such a great military hero, where the hell have you been and what have you done? Oh, nothing yet, can't pass the GED? Go back to high school!

[SSD]

PS Get of drugs or you will never get into cook school.

[SSD]

For those of you that want the OFFICIAL info on the M-40A1: The M40A1 sniper rifle is BASED on the Remington model 700. It is a heavy barrel, bolt action, magazine fed 7.62mm rifle that is optimized for accuracy with Match Grade ammunition. The rifle is equipped with a special 10 power Unertl sniper scope. With scope, the rifle weighs approximately 14.5 pounds. It is equipped with a built-in five round magazine. This weapon is HAND-MADE by specially trained and qualified armorers at Quantico, Virginia.
The unique characteristics of the M40A1 Sniper Rifle are: commercial competition-grade heavy barrel, McMillan fiberglass stock and butt pad, modified Winchester Model 70 floorplate and trigger guard, and modified and lightened trigger. In addition, each stock is epoxy bedded for accuracy and all weapons must shoot less than one minute of angle (MOA).

Each rifle is HAND BUILT by specially trained and qualified personnel at the Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit (MTU) at Quantico, Virginia.

Go away Weapons Idiot.

[Andy0331]

Turd (you know who you are), you are absolutely correct the Marine Corps does not manufacture the M40A1. They (RTE's) do however build them just as any other good gunsmith would build a rifle. Every other service has the M40 series weapon? the Army uses the M24 (is that a 40 series?).
And yeah, you hit the nail on the head, I'm busted, just a phony. NO fieldtime, NO operational time, just a lowly wannabe. I guess I was dreaming (vivdly mind you) of stalking on the Leeward side of GITMO, firing 50+ rounds per week on (quick, better make up a good name) Hicacal range, coordinating with STA 3/2 while they were there with the JTF so we could both train.
So yes, you're right. I will now flee to the car wash, only hoping SSD will join me for company.
Really now, if you are on active duty (or were at one time) why must you insist on starting a silly flame war. Remember there are those here who know the truth, they just sit back & laugh. You also have those who want to learn, some in preparation for a possible career in the military (maybe even SpecOps) and to through out bullshit info doesn't help them one bit. Once again if you are real, keep it professional, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time.
I'm done with you now, you may go.
Andy

[SSD]

Weapons Putz, Your writings reveal your immaturity. “HAHA”, that is so childish. FBI hunting you down, again adding words you dolt. A sensitive item is a sensitive item. If you think someone other than Marine 2112’s produce the M40-A1 then you are PUTZ! Where the hell did someone say no one else is qualified to build a Sniper Rifle? The M-24 is a fine Weapons System, just not my type. Stop making things up and study for your GED! Your experience is 20 years of trying to finish High School. I didn’t know copying an official document is not “dealing with facts”. You are a Wannabe, plain and simple!

[Gary]

Hey there Weapons Person. Not to add wood to your fire, you're doing a good enough job but to quote you "(M40-A1)but are produced by REMINGTON (not the Marine Corps) for the US government...not just the Marine Corps. It is built specifically as a sniper rifle, but there is no magic about it...it;'s just built with attention to detail and a good barrel. As for the Unertl scope...they are NOT used on the M40 series...the Luepold MK4 series is. Unertl scopes are highly overrated and not very sturdy in field conditions". All I can say is you are dead wrong. I would stop here and move onto another subject. You are only hurting whatever reputation you have in SEALNET.

Semper Fi.

[lonefrog]

with all the info here how do i know who to belive? are any of you SEALs? what do I need to do if i wanted to become a sniper or anything like that is a SEAL sniper better than a Marine sniper? I dont know much and all the info I can get is helpfull. thanks

[Gary]

As you can see, the posers finally show their true colors. If you knew anything about Sniping it would be easy to see who is blowing smoke and who is not. As for you, these things sort themselves out. Trust in your recruiter and the extra info you can get.

[josepy]

Weaps dork -

Both SSD and Andy0331 are both Marines with Ops experience. I you read what they are saying you can tell the difference between someone who is and is not.

BTW he who brags about Ops usually has not done them.

BTW2 - H&S percision barrel and Pacmeyer buttplate. How do I remember that shit?

[DemoPup]

Jesus.. i didnt' mean to start this shit..... Okay there weapons guy... lay off okay? Unless you can provide credentials to go with the mouth... dont' write the checks. cause you can't cash them.... All i wanted to knwo was whether the damn M40A2.... thats a 2..... was used by SEALs.... its pretty good knowledge to anyone who is alive that the Corps knows and makes the M40A1 and could probably field strip the thing in their sleep for christ sake... so lay off weapons guy... So can ANY one help me out with the M40A2? i got the same question posted on another site.. and the recruiter should be getting back to me soon... i will let you guys know.... thanks again SSD and Andy and the others that helped... appreciate it...

[SSD]

Weapons Idiot, thanks for recognizing my obvious talent at finding out the posers. Once again you have gone off the deep end. Your comments only start out by belittling others for things they correct you on. Vulgar posts? Where? I see you are trying to right your wrongs and apologize in your own way then try to reassert yourself as someone in the know. Well, you are not! You are a poser plain and simple, oh you might (probably not) have been in the service but in a pouge capacity. For a man that “only deals in facts” you sure use a lot of fiction. If you think any old .308 is the same as an M40-A1 then you are still a Putz.

How about some facts for you Fact man, I’ll put your garbage first then the proper answer:
“The M40 series starts out as REMINGTON model 70 short action, but are produced by REMINGTON (not the Marine Corps) for the US government” Wrong, the weapon is based on the Remington 70 but includes many different parts and is built by 2112 Marine Armorers in Quantico VA.

“As for the Unertl scope...they are NOT used on the M40 series...the Luepold MK4 series is” Wrong again, Unertl’s are used on all M40-A1’s and NO Luepolds are currently used on any M40-A1’s.

“Unertl scopes are highly overrated and not very sturdy in field conditions. “ Wrong, Unertl is a fine scope tested and designed to pass rigorous field training. That is why the Corps uses them.

“No, I am not in high school.” Only because you got kicked out.

“The primary scope on the M40 series is now the MK 4.” Dead wrong! Putz.

“Sure, there are some Unertls still out there, but as they break, they are likely to be replaced by MK 4’s. “ Wrong, the Corps has an ample supply of these fine Scopes that last and last.

“One even said to call the FBI if a civilian was seen with one.” Finally something true. Ask John Shilick, whom after stealing an M40-A1 in 1992, was arrested by the local San Diego FBI field office and finally prosecuted for the theft of the Unertl not the rifle. Go figure.

“SSD; You are obviously a phony” If you can deduce that from my correct posts then you are running scared, Wannabe.

“If you think the Marine Corps manufactures their own rifles, you truly are brainwashed fools.” Well you now look like a total moron knowing that the Corps produces the M40-A1.

“THE M40 series weapon is in use by ALL services” Why the hell would the other guys come to the Corps for a weapon? The Army uses the M-24 and all SEAL’s I’ve trained with use .300 Win Mags.

“For me, rather than copying a page off the Marine Sniper Association home page, as you do. I deal with facts”. I think we know you are in a fantasy world. Now you’re disagreeing with official documents.

“My experience? Over 20 years in Special Operations with combat experience in classified and unclassified operations. Some include Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm and Somalia”. You think you left anything out? The sign of a true Wannabe. I’m surprised you didn’t mention MOH or former POW.

“You still think the FBI will hunt down those with a "sensitive" Unertl scope” Twisting words again.

“You also think that the Marine Corps builds their sniper rifles from scratch and nobody else is competent to do the same.” We all know they take great parts and assemble a fine rifle. Where did “no one else is competent” come from? Again twisting words and adding your own. No where did I infer any other service was inferior as you try to state about my beloved Corps.

“I suppose the M24 is a substandard weapon compared to the M40 because the Lady of the Lake issued it to the Marine Corps” Again, the Corps builds the M40 and the M-24 is also a fine rifle. You still think Remington makes the M-40. Fool!

“It's been fun playing with you, but you just rolled a seven” Son, you are the one who has been toyed with.

For all you soontobe’s out there go the official USMC site or look up the M40-A1 on any DOD site and see for yourself that Weapons Idiot talks out his ass. If you think he is for real, don’t.

[Razor]

Hmmm, wasn't there a kid on the old forums, named White Sniper or some such crap, that tended to blow a gasket when someone tried to correct the spew he posted?

[SSD]

Yea, there was also this kid that came to our forum and swore up and down his Ranger platoon ran 20 minute 5 mile runs for PT three times a week. The funny thing was that even when given facts to prove him wrong he still told everyone where to go and that he was right not them. At least he isn't McMike the Marine hater or is he?

[Jack Ryan]

SSD,

Not only was it 20min 5 miles runs for PT, but also in formation.

I believed him. My national geek unit used to do 15min 5 mile runs in formation. Five miles out and then five miles back (in the sand barefoot). The olympic committee asked us to train for the games but we were a top secret unit and didn't want to be compromised. Boy I miss that guy.

As far as weapons guy. I'm sure your a good guy and know your stuff. As far as the M40, just admit you were mistaken and drive on.

As far as guys being gulable and not really learing anything off this site. Believe me this site and the individuals on this site have helped me more than you know.

Jack Ryan - "Make love not war"

[Nissan]

I always thought that those weapons were based on teh Remmington 700 not 70...I may be wrong though..but I was under the impression almost all used the remington 700 action either short or long..and a majority of the SEALs use .300 win mags not M40-A1s or M24 those were designed and built by the USMC and Army for their demands and both are damn fine rifles and comparing the 2 is just dumb..its not teh rifle but the one behind it..silent souls leave .308 holes and wet silent ones leave .300 holes ;o)

[Mac679]

Nis,
That's where he got confused ( or had a typo ). Winchester makes the Model 70 ( *very* capable and accurate rifle ), Gunny Hathcock used one. The M40 came out in Vietnam based of the Remington 700 ( not sure what variant though, BDL I believe ). Here's a little tidbit, there are M24's in .300WinMag, part of the contract requirements for it was that the reciever must be modifiable to accept .300WinMag. Also the M24 is produced by Remington's Custom Shop not Army armorers ( they just get to fix em later :-). This string really belongs on SniperNet.
Mac

[SSD]

Nissan, a small typo on my part. Remington Model 700 and Winchester Model 70 are the variants, unless you're Weapons Idiot, then any .308 is the same ol' thing.

[Yossi]

Why is the Unertl scope a sensitive item and not sold to the public?

What's "Unertl" means any way?

Thanks in advance

Yossi

[Nissan]

No need to apologize SSD I've made that typo a few times also...the remington model 70 was and is a excelent rifle no doubt but if there are still any operational with a S/S team that would be very rare indeed...One of the subs at my HS was a S/S in Nam he carried the Remington 700 with Unertyl scope said it was one of the most dependable redundant and at the time expensive weapons in the feild..For those of you that wanna check to see if hes a liar his last name is Binkini (I can't remember if its spelled correctly but its right along those lines)and I dunno his first name..so feel free to check it out...

[SSD]

Weapons Idiot, You've read my detailed response and been put in your place. Go back to class. How many times must I prove you're a poser? I suppose the AF uses the M40 also? No they don't but according to you, they do. Stop spreading your crap on these forums and finish high school.


You drew first blood so don't come in here passing your self of as an expert who has been unjustly attacked by some amateur. You continue to make ridiculous comments and spread your lies and then feel slighted when you are challenged. Maybe you need professional help. Join the military and see for yourself, if you can pass the drug screening.

[SSD]

Weapons Poser, you now built an M40? It has an Unertl on it doesn't it? You are truly pathetic.

P.S. I am what I would consider a pouge these days. An XO of a Recruit Training BN in SD. However, unlike you, I have spent many a year in the field with the equipment you only read about. Let me reiterate, get of your lazy, fat ass and join the military and find out that it is not what you see in the movies.

Your feeble attempts to belittle me are only adding to your demise in these forums. Your idiotic rantings are only going to bring the wrath of other operators down on yourself. I suggest leaving while you are behind

Thanks for the acquiescence of your error in your last post.

[SSD]

Weapons Idiot Poser, I forgot to add your spelling is atrocious. Try using a dictionary in the future. Haven't you taken English in high school yet? If not, I suggest in next quarter. I've counted over 30 spelling errors on this page alone!

[Mac679]

SSD, he's probably taking ESOL classes
Weapons "guy", you said "There are no significant differences between the operation of a Remington model 700 and a Winchester model 70." Try putting a Model 70 bolt in a 700 reciever, or vice versa. Methinks you may run into a small problem. You may shoot an M40 *equivalent*, but is it *indentical* to a USMC issue M40A1? Also tell me where SSD said there was anything magical about the M40 series. All he said was that it's built by Marine Armorers at Quantico ( either he did or Andy did ). The MK4 was tested and used by the Corps for a few years ( if I remember correctly ) but was found unsatisfactory and the Corps went back to their Unertls. Also it's kind of hard to get your hands a government contract item unless the manufacturer makes it for the commercial market as well ( like Leupold does its MK M3 ). Here's a question for ya, did Unertl market it's USMC version to the public? Or did they restrict it to military only? The M40 is in use by all services? Then why does the Remington Custom Shop manufacture the M24SWS for the US Army? Why is the M86 in USSOCOM arsenals? Also if you are what you say, what's this about "good quality commercial grade components"? Anyone with an interest in sniper rifles knows that you use *match* grade components to build a sniper rifle! Otherwise you end up with a custom hunting rifle. "...headspaced for the .308 commercial cartridge"? Surely someone of your "expertise" knows that there are headspacing differences between .308Winchester and 7.62NATO. Granted they're small differences but it's enough to keep the rounds from being 100% interchangeable. BTW the military sniper rounds ( M118, M852, & M118LR ) are 7.62NATO *not* .308Win. Unertl may be out of business but have you heard of reconditioning a scope? No one ever said the Corps was using brand new scopes. Also you mention truing the action and truing the bolt separately. Why, considering the bolt is part of the action? Might you be refering to lapping the lugs? Come on at least sound credible by learning the lingo.
Mac

[pid10771]

Stop the MADDNESS!!!!!

[Andy0331]

Weapons Fool,
As if no-one knew you were a moron, you had to open your mouth again, like you said "you need more entertainment". Well, you entertain me, I'm glad you now admit that you were wrong about the M40, you meant the M24 (truly an insignificant mistake). If you really knew what you were talking about, you would have recognized the error after your first post and then shut up.
Oh yes, SSD's comments were certainly hostile, and truly undeserved, YOU wouldn't have possibly opened your 1st post on this thread with "Hey! don't be abunch of spank monkeys." Then when someone corrects you, suddenly they (myself & SSD) have NO field experience, work in supply, etc. Once again, IF you were a true professional, you would have no need for "more entertainment from SSD". Hey, if you're so high speed, low drag, why is it that you find time to post during "normal working hours" for almost any active duty unit.
One final thing, you state that "the sack is likely to try to convince you that only a Marine can build a rifle capable of extreme accuracy", well, if you actually read the above posts by SSD & myself you will find that MOST ANY competent gunsmith can build a capable sniper rifle. As far as you shooting an M40 equivalent, sure, a Rem 700 short action, with McMillan stock, H.S. Precision barrel, whatever scope, no problem. I do highly doubt that your "M40" uses a Winchester Model 70 triggerguard & floorplate, which is standard on ALL M40A1 rifles. Maybe you actually have an M24 equivalent?
Go ahead & trash me now, I'm new to the forum (used to lurk on the old one alot)& have no reputation to uphold, I don't care, like I said in an above post, the people who know just laugh at you (especially trying to cover your tracks now that the chase is on). The only disservice you do is to those who don't know & want to learn. Nothing better than feeding bad intell to people who could be protecting your ass one day. it's all good as long as you get to inflate your hot air balloon-like ego.
Disappear loser,
Andy

[JSOCMarine]

Weapons Guy,
I am curious as to your career field in the AF. You obviously have weapons knowledge, are you an armorer, a PJ, aircrew, etc.? No hidden agenda here, just curious.

[JY]

Gentlemen;

A term refering to those true gentlemen, representing the USMC Lt. Gary, josepy,SSD, Andy0331, the Army Razor(cold ain't it?). These gentlemen have posted the only sane info I've seen on this thread(I mention these specific gentlemen as they are known to me as such)

As a neutral observer of this bedlam and having worked in the field in question, I submit the following;

1) The M40A1 and all it's line is based on the Remington 700/40 action. This is then taken totally apart and rebuilt to the high standards of the USMC by their highly skilled RTEs. Resulting in one of the finest Sniper Weapons in the WORLD.

2) The M24 is built by Remington and also based on the Mod 700/40 action. It is based on the long action (M40A1 short action)and is now made entirely by Remington, the originals had the Rock 5R barrel but Remington now makes the 5R in house, also one of the finest.

3) The Navy SEALs use the M86 Sniper Weapon in .300Win Mag & 7.62X51mm. This rifle is made by McMillan totally, it is based on the general design of the Remington Mod 700 but made entirely by McMillan and modified to Navy standards, such as a Sako type extractor, easy bolt take down and such. It is an expensive rifle to make, it is also used by other SOCOM units, it is also one of the finest. And as stated in the thread they have the money for what ever they want, know this for a fact from seeing some of their goodies at Crane that are being developed for them.

4) As to the M82A1 .50 everybody has this sheet metal maxi boomer, it is not one of the finest in the world.

5) Unertl is the name of the man who makes the scopes with his name there on. They are getting long in the tooth, paralax is not a field adjustable feature, and they tend to suck moisture into their tubes. it is in it's day one of the best and is still one of the strongest(not a bad atribute for a sniper's scope)

With this said I will say, good day Gary, Josepy, SSD, Andy0331, and Razor(enjoy the ride Tues night?)and take care of yourselves. With that I return to Army country...Jim

[Gary]

Wg,
Nice to see a little civility for a change. I know the Major likes to go after someone he thinks is a fake and after re-reading your posts, I can see why he went after you. I try to comment only on things I know for sure, this prevents my being mistaken for a poser.

[JSOCMarine]

Gary,
Am I the major that you are refering to in your post? If so, allow me to clarify why I participate in the SOCNET. By the way, I used to post on the old board as 0302/9953.

I participate in order to help the young wannabe's who are thinking about joining the military and are interested in becoming warriors. I also like to add an experienced perspective for the guys currently on active duty. That said, I do not intend to become a dominating force in this room, mostly because I learn so much when I shut my mouth and read the insightful posts of others! There is an AWESOME degree of knowledge and experience in this room. I can only shake my head in wonder when I realize what something like this could have done for my Marines and me during my career.

That said, I think that we all need to take a step back, harness our dominating Type-A personalities, and grow this room into the warrior fraternity that I believe that Tom wants it to become. I believe that through this tool we can accelerate the development and knowledge base of a young warrior by years in a matter of months. What an opportunity! Semper Fi.

[This message has been edited by JSOCMarine (edited 11-25-1999).]

[Tom Hunter]

As a result of his comments on this thread and others, I have formally banned Weapons guy from SOCNET and removed all his old posts. While I am all for free speech, I won;t allow people to post comments that are obviously only intended to piss everyone off and elicit a response. He may come back later, although I have banned him from registering via his email address. If he comes back, I'll ban him and his posts again. I do need your help to ferret out guys like this, as I just don;t have the time to read all the posts on the forum, so if you notice someone doing this, please let me know.
Tom Hunter

[DemoPup]

Thank your very much Tom.... his conduct like you said wasn't very professionable or honorable... I'm sure everyone will help make sure guys like him won't disrupt the serious conversations everyone enjoys having..

HOOYAH

[Gary]

JSOCMarine,

SSD was the Major I was referring to. Just an opinion beings I personally know the man. I think everyone here knows you are a wise old Marine and post intelligent topics and responses. No need to explain anything.

Semper Fi. Sir

[SSD]

It's all about entertainment.

[Triggerfifty]

WOW!!

Haven't been to this thread in a while, that was ugly. LOL

[z]

Hey,

Is all the best equipment used by the Military or do the civies have better stuff?

[Steak]

Mr. Ryan,
I hate to butt in here, but doesn't a 15 minute 5 mile run mean that you are doing 3 minute miles? How does that work?

"Not only was it 20min 5 miles runs for PT, but also in formation.

I believed him. My national geek unit used to do 15min 5 mile runs in formation. Five miles out and then five miles back (in the sand barefoot). "

[REEL STEEL]

SSD are you still active in the armed forces or are you retired...I would love to talk one on one....maybe you could help me out with a few questions that I might have...
MK

[jcollettusa]

MasterChief:

Not to sound condescending, but all snipers are trained to know the vital areas of the body, such as the T-zone (for the medulla oblongata). There is far more to being a good sniper than knowing vital areas of the body.

------------------
Semper Fi

[Jeff Rambo]

Originally posted by JSOCMarine:
Gary,
Am I the major that you are refering to in your post? If so, allow me to clarify why I participate in the SOCNET. By the way, I used to post on the old board as 0302/9953.

I participate in order to help the young wannabe's who are thinking about joining the military and are interested in becoming warriors. I also like to add an experienced perspective for the guys currently on active duty. That said, I do not intend to become a dominating force in this room, mostly because I learn so much when I shut my mouth and read the insightful posts of others! There is an AWESOME degree of knowledge and experience in this room. I can only shake my head in wonder when I realize what something like this could have done for my Marines and me during my career.

That said, I think that we all need to take a step back, harness our dominating Type-A personalities, and grow this room into the warrior fraternity that I believe that Tom wants it to become. I believe that through this tool we can accelerate the development and knowledge base of a young warrior by years in a matter of months. What an opportunity! Semper Fi.

[This message has been edited by JSOCMarine (edited 11-25-1999).]

I HAVE A DREAM! THAT ONE DAY MY .... Opps, I mean ... I just wanted to bring this current. Maybe some of us will actually learn to listen and just sit back and read. That is my current role as of late. Join me on the couch of love my fellow children while we watch the BTDT types talk shop.

HSDOH, there is room for you too ... right next to me.

JSOCMarine, Good post. Glad I found it.

------------------
Sincerely,
Jeff A. Rambo
NBTNDT
------------------
Disrespect cannot be commanded, it must be earned.

[Medic21]

A while ago I watched a short program on a SWAT team and they did a short bit on snipers. They talked in detail about how they were trained in anatomy and vital points. I didn't pay too much attention to it but it was pretty thorough. I assume, since Marcinko calls them squat teams, that the military guys are far superior in terms of knowledge. Obviously they are better at the hands on because of more training time.

[REEL STEEL]

I believe that all snipers are equally welled trained in their respective units and would say that it is very dangerous to assume that just because some one thinks they are inadequate that they really aren't. Any properly trained sniper is a highly trained individual. I wouldn't make any broad distinction until I was actually training to be one or knew someone on the inside, which I don't. BTW...sorry for the terrible spelling...suffering from sleep deprivation....He hee...

[This message has been edited by REEL STEEL (edited 01-20-2001).]

[REEL STEEL]

Please excuse my terrible spelling I meant to say I would't make a broad distinction about the snipers.

[Gary]

I was just re-reading the first few posts in this forum and thought I'd let you know that Team 5 sends two SEAL's to the 1 Mar Div Scout/Sniper School almost every class these days. There are two there now.

[Mr_Sensitive69]

Originally posted by SSD:
As for the Unertl, they are sensitive items that are not available to the public. If you find one for sale, you’re being scammed. If not, call the local FBI office and report it.[/B]

??I was wondering what makes these scopes so BAD ASS?? Another thing kinda off the subject but in the Army we where a unit patch on our left shoulder signifying our unit and one on your right if you went to war that one is the unit you served with in the war. If you are in the SEALs do you wear a patch on you BDUs?

[Cerberus]

From what I have heard, the Unertl scope is not totaly unavailable to the public. If you were to run into one at a gun show, chances are it might be stolen though. I think the Unertl scopes available to the public say "Sniper" on the left side, and a few years ago there were only about 31 of them around.

[Medic21]

Gary,

There is only the one sniper school, run by the USMC, right? Cause those were the same numbers that GyHicks gave as well.

[josepy]

Medic -

There are 3 sniper schools in the Marine Corps. 1 at Camp Pen, 1 Lejuene, and an Instructor Course at Quantico.

The scope says "USMC Sniper" below the elevation knob.

[Gunny Hicks]

Medic21: Gary and I refer only to the SEALS that we know of attending the courses personnaly.

When I attended the Instructors Course in Quantico, we had one Army SF type in the class there.

[Medic21]

Thanks guys.

Of the 3 courses, 1 already stated as the instructor course, do they offer the same program or is one more advanced than the other or are they the same caliber?

[Gunny Hicks]

I understand that Quantico has changed the Instructor Crs, and now call it Advanced Sniper Crs. I can not speak as to what they now teach. When I went through (early 1990) we spent two weeks learning how to be an Instructor, and the next four weeks we taught the classes that are normaly taught in the basic sniper crs. ( apre-requisite was that you had to have already attended a basic USMC Scout/Sniper school) We also had to plan and conduct the field exercises, stalks, shoots, etc. Additionaly we did alot of advanced stuff. High angle shooting, hard target shooting, hostage rescue situations, sentry and dog take down, etc.

East coast and West (Campn Lejeune-2d MarDiv, and Camp Pendleton-1stMarDiv) are very similar.

Trainig and Education in Quantico is pushing to have a signed POI that is common to the two basic crs'.

[This message has been edited by Gunny Hicks (edited 01-20-2001).]

[Gary]

Mr. 69/Cerb, The Unertl Scoop is rugged and durable and that basically sets it apart. SSD was referring to the Scope in the past. Unertl has just announced that they will begin selling USMC 10X scopes to the public for around $2k. They will be the same with the exception of the word USMC will be missing.

Medic/Joe, much to the chagrin of the Sniper Community, Hawaii and occasionally Oki will run MOS producing Scout/Sniper Schools.

The Quantico course expands on theories taught at the Division Schools and skips all the basics. It is also referred to as the Gentleman’s course. If anyone wants to get some of the best Sniper training in the world then Pendleton or Stone Bay are the places to go.

[tactical]

Medic, never underestimate us little old PD Snipers. Some of use train all the time and have taken advantage of ever school available.

On the M40A1 thing. The Unertal has been the scope since day one. It is a fine scope. My only complaint about it is the lack of an adjustable objective for Parallex unless you use the wrench. I hope the new M40A3 rifle has a scope with adjustable paralllex.

On the bbls, the originals were Atkinson, now HS Precision and I have heard but can not prove some where Hart bbls.

On the Unertals USMC Sniper Scopes. Thge original Unertal Co is out of business. A new Unertal Co is producing and selling scope in the same pattern as the USMC Sniper. So is US Optics. The two companies are are not marking the scopes USMC Sniper.

Mike