Angry 4 yr. old shoots babysitter

[tnkspe119]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_us/young_shooter

I don't understand how people can't be responsible enough to keep their weapons in safe places when they have young children. And can a 4 yr old kid have the mental capacity/understanding of what they are doing in a situation like this? (Serious question)

[HMdepperNavy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_us/young_shooter

I don't understand how people can't be responsible enough to keep their weapons in safe places when they have young children. And can a 4 yr old kid have the mental capacity/understanding of what they are doing in a situation like this? (Serious question)

Yea, a four year old probably knows what a gun is and how to pull a trigger. Did he understand the consequences? Would he have been able to load the gun? Probably not.

[tnkspe119]

Thanks Depper...should have clarified. That's what I was wondering...the whole consequences thing. My dad bought me my 1st rifle when I was five and took me to the range, but I know he sure as hell had those weapons locked up or out of reach.

[Gryfen-FL]

I agree, the kid obviously 'gets' the concept about guns.

Understanding the potential consequences of using them though...that's a tossup. Some 4yr olds, due to enviornment or upbringing, may be completely ignorant of the concept of 'death' as a permanant, irreversable thing.

[The Fat Guy]

People who cannot or do not control their firearms, dangerous animals or other things that can can cause harm to society should be held accountable. Most firearms in the home are either irrelevant or unsafe from a home defense perspective. (Absent most SOCNETTERS of course). A gun in the back of a closet is all but useless for a home invasion / burglary, so why keep it loaded. (I could go on for days about this, but want to make a point about adults being negligent) This kid obviously had some other issues if he felt that he was due justice for having his toe stepped on.

On a side note, I don't know of any state that adjudicates kids this young. Most of the states use 7-9 as an age at which children can be adjudicated and processed by the juvenile system.

My .02

[RGR.Montcalm]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_us/young_shooter

I don't understand how people can't be responsible enough to keep their weapons in safe places when they have young children. And can a 4 yr old kid have the mental capacity/understanding of what they are doing in a situation like this? (Serious question)

I know that most states define the "age of reason" as 8 years old, in that at 8 years old they can see and reason the effects and consequences of their actions as opposed to a kid that watches Saturday morning cartoons and sees the Roadrunner fuck up the Coyote and he keeps coming back after being shot, mangles, run over by cars, etc...

The "age of reason" defense saved my ass when my son (now a responsible CPT in the Army :rolleyes:) set my brother in laws house on fire while playing with matches. His homeowners insurance company tried to take us to court to re-coup damages and the "age of reason" saved me about $5000.

As far as the parents leaving a loaded, unsecured firearm in reach of a 4 year old, they are lucky that he didn't kill the baby sitter and both need to be flogged for putting their kid and the babysitter at risk.

[10thvet]

The sheriff already said that he can not charge the 4 year old in any way...the parents are a differnt matter. There is no excuse for a 4 year old to get hold of a loaded shotgun...

This kid should be watched and monitered for the next 5-6 years to see if he has any other anger problems...

[iraqgunz]

I might go so far as to say that if you as a gun owner leave your firearms carelessly about so that a child could acces it and kill or hurt someone you should lose the right to own a firearm at least temporarily. These stupid assholes don't realize that everytime an incident like this happens we responsible gun owners get lumped into their crowd and the anti-gun lobby uses it to try and justify more gun control.

[Baildog]

I might go so far as to say that if you as a gun owner leave your firearms carelessly about so that a child could acces it and kill or hurt someone you should lose the right to own a firearm at least temporarily. These stupid assholes don't realize that everytime an incident like this happens we responsible gun owners get lumped into their crowd and the anti-gun lobby uses it to try and justify more gun control.

Temporarily? Try permanently. Unless you live alone, there's really no reason to keep loaded weapons unlocked anyway. If you have kids, there is no excuse.

It takes me 3-4 seconds to get my pistol in-hand from my pistol safe -- which cost me less than $100. That should buy my enough firepower to fight my way to the big safe in the garage. :biggrin: Which still didn't cost much compared to the chance of my kids getting their hands on a weapon anywhere other than supervised on the range.

I really doubt most 4-year olds understand that shooting the babysitter is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[iraqgunz]

I am hesitant to permanently revoke that right unless someone has been convicted of a felony. Even if you live alone it should be secured somehow. Considering that the FBI states that a large percentage of illegal firearms on the street are gained via residential burglary.

It's sad that this happened, but again it was ENTIRELY preventable.

Temporarily? Try permanently. Unless you live alone, there's really no reason to keep loaded weapons unlocked anyway. If you have kids, there is no excuse.

It takes me 3-4 seconds to get my pistol in-hand from my pistol safe -- which cost me less than $100. That should buy my enough firepower to fight my way to the big safe in the garage. :biggrin: Which still didn't cost much compared to the chance of my kids getting their hands on a weapon anywhere other than supervised on the range.

I really doubt most 4-year olds understand that shooting the babysitter is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[Baildog]

Well, if we are talking about leaving it potentially accessible versus having it actually found and used, then I could see the difference between temporarily and permanently.

I grew up in a house with long guns sitting right there in the rec room closet, but that was a different day and age (and I never did figure out where the ammunition was).

The only gun in my house that is unsecured is the Civil War breechloader over my mantlepiece.

[RGR.Montcalm]

In this case, simply putting the shotgun on a gun rack on the wall would have prevented this.

+1 on watching the kid- he cold be bad seed....

I wonder if there would be any chance of charging them with reckless endangerment by leaving the weapon unsecured and thereby placing both the babysitter and the kid at risk.

[Hopeless Civilian]

I'd have to know more details about how the firearm was kept... but I think reckless endangerment could be a very appropriote charge to consider. Can someone be charged with being 'stupid'? ( Wait...that would fill up the courts beyond capacity...lol).

[Expatmedic]

Yea, a four year old probably knows what a gun is and how to pull a trigger. Did he understand the consequences? Would he have been able to load the gun? Probably not.


I agree. I think a 4 y/o can grasp the concept of a bullet coming from a gun. But might not have the first clue as to what happens when the bullet hits the body.

One of my nephews is just now 12 and has no knowledge of any guns in the house. His being allowed to watch movies with violence is very much curtailed. As he gets older he's allowed to watch more violent movies. He's allowed to play with Nerf guns, but nothing that looks like a real gun to point at another person is allowed.

[guns]

I'm wondering what type of shotgun it was and why the safety wasn't on. A four year old holding and firing a twelve gauge without breaking his arm? Not to mention that the safeties on some models don't exactly click to "Fire" easily. So now you have the potential for a situation with a loaded shotgun that is off safe. Ridiculous.

[poison]

I feel sorry for that kid. It's not his fault; kids at that age have no idea what that means. He's old enough to remember, maybe, and regardless, it's going to follow him forever.

[SIERRA_339]

4 y/o firing a shotgun? hard to imagine.