View Full Version : Oil below $43 after 12 percent fall
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-drops-largest-percentage-rb-13994723.html
I heard on the radio this morning that this recent drop is because US reserves are much higher than expected. Then they stated that the US average per gallon of gas is up 4 cents.
Why, if the price per barrel has dropped so dramatically, are gas prices still rising? That's some pretty fuzzy math. :confused:
mags123
8 January 2009, 11:09
Two different markets, each driven by its own supply and demand variables?
Psi Brr
8 January 2009, 11:29
Don't forget the value-added delay from refinement, storage, and uh, corporate greed :rolleyes:.
ASTAC918
8 January 2009, 12:53
Two different markets, each driven by its own supply and demand variables?
exxxxactly. not enough margin selling a gallon of gas to be very profitable. Exploration and refining, different story.
0699
8 January 2009, 12:54
And public gullibility...
Made up quote - "The recent rise in gas prices is due to the Israeli invasion of Gaza." I bet many Americans would believe it.
Psi Brr
8 January 2009, 13:32
And public gullibility...
Made up quote - "The recent rise in gas prices is due to the Israeli invasion of Gaza." I bet many Americans would believe it.
And I'm not one of them...
WS-G
8 January 2009, 14:18
Curious how the cost of gasoline in my AO increased by 30 cents per gallon over the course of a mere four hours earlier this week --- with zero explanation WRT why.
There are two different markets one does not really expound on the other. You are either up or down stream. But there daily dealings are not enough to change the market greatly as it has been doing. E and P has a number of turnkey project and rig rates are still high. One reason they are stacking rigs. The price is to high. As for Refining, economy sucks so no one is driving and supply is high with no place to sell produts... Lyondell just closed a very large refinery here in Houston. The price is hurting everyone.
But the reason for the hike is Taxes.
Projected shortfalls in revenue led the National Surface Transportation Policy and Revenue Study Commission, in a report last January, to urge an increase of as much as 40 cents a gallon in the gas tax, phased in over five years.
In the last 6 months the number of people driving has decreased the tax revenus by almost 1/2... The government is going to get theirs...
As we have said for many yrs... Record profits AIN'T... The more people understand how the oil markets really work... Then they will not bitch as much.
RO!!!
redhawk
8 January 2009, 14:54
And I'm not one of them...
There's over 5,000,000 people on Facebook and MySpace who believe not getting gas on a coordinated day will force the gas companies to lower prices. We're surrounded by geniuses.
RAT, you should publish an idiots guide to gas prices. I'll buy the first edition.
iraqgunz
8 January 2009, 15:30
Just went and checked the gas prices at home (Phoenix area) and they are still pretty much the same. 1.41-1.49 on the average.
There's over 5,000,000 people on Facebook and MySpace who believe not getting gas on a coordinated day will force the gas companies to lower prices. We're surrounded by geniuses.
RAT, you should publish an idiots guide to gas prices. I'll buy the first edition.
Redhawk,
I am sure if I was to write one, I would be a bigger target than I am now. HAHAHA
The information is out there. People just want to hate big oil.
It is pretty funny when you think about it... They all think the big money is in Gasoline...:rolleyes: only because that affects what they do daily.
As you said they are some real winners out there. LOL
RO!!!
Max Power
8 January 2009, 16:31
Seriously, you guys are upset that gas prices went up a few cents? The prices are still lower than they have been for years and years! You'll just never be happy.
As RAT has explained before, local, state, and federal governments make WAY more than the oil companies, the 8-9% margin they make is next to nothing. If the amount of profit they make (absolute dollars) bothers you, quit buying!
Why do we keep having to go over this every 3-6 months?
SOTB
8 January 2009, 16:34
Why do we keep having to go over this every 3-6 months?Because you are surrounded by McAmericans. Personally I wish it went many DOLLARS in the other direction....
KidA
8 January 2009, 16:37
Because you are surrounded by McAmericans. Personally I wish it went many DOLLARS in the other direction....
Until you start driving that 77 Trans-Am...:biggrin:
SOTB
8 January 2009, 16:52
Until you start driving that 77 Trans-Am....No dude, I'm one of those whom are quite comfortable with spending the money to drive it, or driving it less and taking alternative transport most of the time. In fact, my present situation and hopefully continued plan, is to have an office always within bike or walking distance.
Let gas prices climb. Sadly there is no other manner to motivate people to seek alternatives to our current energy sources....
Max Power
8 January 2009, 17:11
Yep. I'm a huge fan of alternative energy, myself.
smp52
8 January 2009, 17:39
Let gas prices climb. Sadly there is no other manner to motivate people to seek alternatives to our current energy sources....
Ditto.
EDIT:
Price goes high, the public cries for new alternatives. Price goes low, people completely forget about it. Why we aren't using natural gas (which is plentiful locally and well distributed) is beyond me - if there is any place in the world that could use it as a mass transit fuel, we should be it. We've got a huge chunk of the infrastructure in place. Automobiles don't require too much re-fitting to run on natural gas.
Okie75
8 January 2009, 18:15
And public gullibility...
Made up quote - "The recent rise in gas prices is due to the Israeli invasion of Gaza." I bet many Americans would believe it.
i sure hope the fellers dealing in oil futures dont read your quote... gheesh.. we can expect to hear that next week..
redhawk
8 January 2009, 18:17
Let gas prices climb. Sadly there is no other manner to motivate people to seek alternatives to our current energy sources....
Concur. When gas was at $1.57 a family member said, "About time." When I told him how I felt he thought I was batshit crazy.
MakoZeroSix
8 January 2009, 18:31
All I know is a gallon of organic milk at Harris Teeter is $6. That's a substance that just gets pumped out of an animal and put in a can and sold. Yet, somehow, magically, they drill deep into the earth in a hostile environment, pump out heavy black stuff, put it in a ship, send it through pirate infested waters halfway around the world, put it in a refinery, cook it until it becomes something else, put it in a pipe, pump it somewhere else, put it in a truck, take it to a gas station. And it is only $1.70 a gallon. Holy shit.
SOTB
8 January 2009, 18:35
I'm not an inventor. I'm not a scientist. In fact if it is mathematical or requires the use of ANY tools, I am forbidden by international law from being within 200m of any substantial or important work.
Still, as a layman, I simply believe that the US -- and the world -- has the intellectual resources necessary to find a short as well as a mid and/or long term solution to our alternative energy needs.
Whether this be a fantastic breakthrough with respect to the construction/operation of combustion engines, simplification or some other fashion of accessing oil deposits cheaper than we currently can and thereby giving us access to deposits that are within US territory, or cheaper nuke/wind/solar energy -- whatever -- I believe we CAN do it.
I also firmly support the POTUS-elect's idea of making this search the 21st Century equivalence of the Manhattan program....
redhawk
8 January 2009, 18:51
I also firmly support the POTUS-elect's idea of making this search the 21st Century equivalence of the Manhattan program....
The only problem is... Nixon did the same thing with Project Independence. It has to be more than words (my "duh" statement), and as of right now President-Elect Obama has made a shit-ton of promises he can't keep. With gas at $2.00, energy independence will be pretty easy to push off to the side. So... hopefully it jumps back up to $4.00 and everyone feels the pinch again.
That being said, I drove to Pittsburgh and back for roughly $32 this last week. That would have cost me $70 this summer. :biggrin:
SOTB
8 January 2009, 19:03
It has to be more than words (my "duh" statement), and as of right now President-Elect Obama has made a shit-ton of promises he can't keep. With gas at $2.00, energy independence will be pretty easy to push off to the side....I agree, and while I won't answer any questions to the following comment in this thread (put the question(s) in the appropriate thread and I will), I believe he can complete two promises at the same time. Yank our troops out of Iraq (at least the conventional troops) and make alternative energy sources the second largest priority of his administration (behind the economy, which while tied to energy costs and obviously very complicated, it will be the focus of everyone until numbers show a turnaround).
Oh, and if he were interested in my opinion, I would not send ANY other troops to Astan (no answers in this thread to this comment, either). Pull all conventional troops out of there as well.
LOTS of money can be found to pay for projects (ASSuming that the plan was to not spend any less than is being spent now)....
Seriously, you guys are upset that gas prices went up a few cents? The prices are still lower than they have been for years and years! You'll just never be happy.
As RAT has explained before, local, state, and federal governments make WAY more than the oil companies, the 8-9% margin they make is next to nothing. If the amount of profit they make (absolute dollars) bothers you, quit buying!
Why do we keep having to go over this every 3-6 months?
Don't get me wrong, I am not bitching in any way. I told my wife months ago that I would be happy if prices got back down to $2.50 per gallon. Now we're much lower than that and I have nothing to bitch about. I honestly just did not understand how these prices were set. After reading Rat's post, I have a much better understanding now.
0699
9 January 2009, 15:43
And I'm not one of them...
And I'm not claiming you are. But when you start talking about why gas prices are rising, people in general can believe some pretty crazy stuff. I'd be willing to bet that if you took a poll, a large percentage of people would believe that what's going on in Gaza is related to the rise in pump prices.
Psi Brr
9 January 2009, 16:03
And I'm not one of them...
And I'm not claiming you are. But when you start talking about why gas prices are rising, people in general can believe some pretty crazy stuff. I'd be willing to bet that if you took a poll, a large percentage of people would believe that what's going on in Gaza is related to the rise in pump prices.Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
And... I didn't take it that you were... They just don't make a smiley for "tongue-in-cheek.":biggrin:
Psi Brr
9 January 2009, 16:08
Still, as a layman, I simply believe that the US -- and the world -- has the intellectual resources necessary to find a short as well as a mid and/or long term solution to our alternative energy needs.
Whether this be a fantastic breakthrough with respect to the construction/operation of combustion engines, simplification or some other fashion of accessing oil deposits cheaper than we currently can and thereby giving us access to deposits that are within US territory, or cheaper nuke/wind/solar energy -- whatever -- I believe we CAN do it.
I also firmly support the POTUS-elect's idea of making this search the 21st Century equivalence of the Manhattan program....Here's a discovery by NASA that'll rock everyone's world sooner or later: They've begun successful development of batteries using nanotubes. It will basically optimize what goes on inside the battery in a ridiculously more compact space. I read the article in the paper issue of NASA Tech Briefs 2-3 months ago. It looks freakin' incredible.
Here's a discovery by NASA that'll rock everyone's world sooner or later: They've begun successful development of batteries using nanotubes. It will basically optimize what goes on inside the battery in a ridiculously more compact space. I read the article in the paper issue of NASA Tech Briefs 2-3 months ago. It looks freakin' incredible.
Correct and there are other scientiest who are working with the Gates foundation who can and have developed how to make more synthetic oil. There is some great stuff out there...
As for the traders they have damn near put on contract all the VLCC's and now have them full and positioned for the price to come up.
So stand by in the next few weeks to see the price increase a few more dollars at the rack and a few more cents at the pump.
RO!!!
okami1
9 January 2009, 18:06
Correct and there are other scientiest who are working with the Gates foundation who can and have developed how to make more synthetic oil.
Is this related to the work where they are manipulating the genes of a certain kind of algae to produce biodiesel, or a different project entirely?
Is this related to the work where they are manipulating the genes of a certain kind of algae to produce biodiesel, or a different project entirely?
From what I understand it has some of the same biology but it makes a different product.
I am no engineer by any means... I just ask a lot of questions. If I hear and I am able to post more I will.
RO!!!
redhawk
9 January 2009, 20:02
Manipulating the genes of algae for the purposes of fuel production?
Damn, and they still can't cure stupidity, white trashiness, or douchebagery? :(
Greenhat
9 January 2009, 20:54
Manipulating the genes of algae for the purposes of fuel production?
Damn, and they still can't cure stupidity, white trashiness, or douchebagery? :(
Not and have Kentucky and Arkansas still exist... ;)
Psi Brr
9 January 2009, 21:01
Manipulating the genes of algae for the purposes of fuel production?
Damn, and they still can't cure stupidity, white trashiness, or douchebagery? :(
Um... sterilization?:rolleyes:
ASTAC918
9 January 2009, 21:21
Not and have Kentucky and Arkansas still exist... ;)
whoa, whoa, whoa....AR native here...
(got a smiley with a gap in it's teeth?)
MacDuff
10 January 2009, 00:15
Not and have Kentucky and Arkansas still exist... ;)
Stupidity and White Trashiness...sure. Douchebaggery? We'd have to fight New Jersey for the top spot. :biggrin:
Jimbo
14 January 2009, 19:17
People just want to hate big oil.
Big oil ate my children.
RAT
14 January 2009, 19:38
Big oil ate my children.
You just wait till I get to your AO...:biggrin:
RO!!!
ASTAC918
14 January 2009, 22:38
I predict oil will be back to $75 by May. One story about tankers sitting off shore waiting...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/business/worldbusiness/15oil.html?_r=1
RAT
14 January 2009, 22:48
I predict oil will be back to $75 by May. One story about tankers sitting off shore waiting...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/business/worldbusiness/15oil.html?_r=1
We have been doing that for over 70 yrs now. Nothing new. The funds are going to cry for another bail out here because they will lose their ass again. It would be nice to be that high again. But it fell 4% today. A lot of traders hedged that with the cold coming in the price would have jumped 20%... It fell 4%. Not good for the speculators. The traders are going to run them out and get back to normal. 45 to 60 in peek times and 40 to 50 for others.
RO!!!
triumph
15 January 2009, 01:46
RAT, thanks for the explanation. I like the idea of NYC taxi's going hybrid. I'd like to see the BDI go up so I can reengage some other investments.
http://www.investmenttools.com/futures/bdi_baltic_dry_index.htm
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