Presidential Inauguration Circus

[thatkindasux]

No sir, I too am amazed of the circus this is turning out to be.:(

[hile]

The fact that this is becoming a circus says a lot about some segments of the American People (those who would ask for these breads and circuses), and it really doesn't surprise me. It does, however, turn my stomach.

[Massgrunt]

- The media airing the Kenyans celebrating: they are calling Obama the first "African President of the US." He is an American not an African. Idiots.
I wonder how many guests his brother can fit in his cardboard box.

[307th_ACE]

Yep,

Just concentrating on the media, I have been thoroughly disgusted by the whole ordeal.

[JDAM]

The whole thing disgusts me. I plan on working and living in America long enough to make a couple of million and then I'm out of here...going to retire in Golfo Aranci. My house will be the one right of the water inlet, next to the sandbar... :cool:

[iraqgunz]

How long before the inaugeral jack off session and the honeymoon turns into a bitter divorce? I am sick and tired of the "first African American" President stuff. He is an American first and foremost. He will be the next President. That's all that needs to be said. I am especially turned off because some people seem to also forget that he is also white. So IMHO he is not a true "African American". We need to get away from this thinking and go back to the days when we were all AMERICANS.

[stllearnin]

I think that we're looking at this all wrong. We need to be taking meticulous notes about what people are and aren't doing and saying, so that when the honeymoon is over and if (God forbid... honestly) everything goes to shit, we can look back and ask (in the most sarcastic manner possible) "what happened?? I thought he was the best thing since the wheel".

Just my .02

[Greenhat]

Why should anyone be surprised?

The American people voted for "bread and circuses"... so they're getting their first circus on the first day of the President-elect's term.

[Ace]

......going to retire in Golfo Aranci. My house will be the one right of the water inlet, next to the sandbar... :cool:

Moving to the neighborhood? I'll have the coffee on, lol.

[agonyea]

Al queda will have a field day with these "soft target's"

[Greenhat]

Let's see...

U2
Beyonce
Garth Brooks
John Mellencamp
Herbie Hancock
Bruce Springsteen
Denzel Washington
Tom Hanks
Jamie Foxx

Politics has become entertainment. The show must go on...

[sierraseven]

I Googled "presidential inauguration" for the last few Presidents, and "Presidential memorabilia" - just in case my memory was inaccurate - and the performances, concerts, cheesy souvenirs, are nothing new. The memorabilia is somewhat cheesier this time around, but I think that's more a part of the overall trend toward marketing anything and everything that will sell - and certainly nobody sells what nobody buys.

S7

[Greenhat]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/administration/inauguration05/

[sierraseven]

Let's see...

U2
Beyonce
Garth Brooks
John Mellencamp
Herbie Hancock
Bruce Springsteen
Denzel Washington
Tom Hanks
Jamie Foxx

Politics has become entertainment. The show must go on...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050118-10.html

Listen, I want to thank all the entertainers who were here today. How about Hilary Duff. She was fantastic. (Applause.) Thank you, Hilary. JoJo -- JoJo is here -- yeah. (Applause.) Rubin Studdard -- you talk about a success story. (Applause.) Ryan Cabrera, I appreciate Ryan being here. (Applause.) How about Three Doors Down? (Applause.) Pretty cool guys, right? Seem cool to me. (Applause.) Fuel -- I appreciate Fuel being here. (Applause.) Jason Sehorn -- I'm honored that my friend, Jason -- and I'm really proud and pleased that he brought his wife, Angie Harmon. (Applause.)

I want to thank Steve Baldwin for being with us today. I'm honored that Steve was here. Erika Harold, Miss America 2003 -- what a fine person Erika is. (Applause.) How about Kelly Purdue, the "apprentice." (Applause.) Next thing you know, the guy will be running for President. (Applause.) Nancy O'Dell -- I'm honored that Nancy is with us. I appreciate you all coming.



Pres. Bush at one of his inaugural concerts.

S7

[Gypsy]

No sir, I too am amazed of the circus this is turning out to be.:(


$160,000,000.00 worth of circus. I can understand the pomp and circumstance...it is after all a Presidential inauguration. But really, $160,000,000.00 worth? :rolleyes:

[Dirtpuppy]

I hate Bono the most. That guy needs to take him and his crappy band back to Ireland.

[SIERRA_339]

...and HBO bought the exclusive rights from his inauguration commitee...WTF is that?

[Evil Snowman]

The whole thing disgusts me. I plan on working and living in America long enough to make a couple of million and then I'm out of here...going to retire in Golfo Aranci. My house will be the one right of the water inlet, next to the sandbar... :cool:

Italy ... meh.

[Tracy]

America wants a party, not a change-of-command ceremony...

:biggrin:

[307th_ACE]

I would say, given the current financial situation, that this inauguration at this time seems a little excessive.

IMHO a leader would have stepped up and made this as simple of an affair as possible. Probably would have gained him a lot of respect.

As I said, my opinion.

[Parajuevos]

Instead of wasting millions of dollars and time, on this circus, the organizers,the transition team and all of the coordinating agencies would have been better advised to focus on more critical matters of state such as.........................the aquisition of a "first dog." :rolleyes:

[TowGunner]

Having attended 2 parties with my Principles yesterday..... and 3 more today..... and 3 more plus the actual ceremony to come.... I am seriously disgusted by the whole thing. There are several levels of disgust that I have had to deal with between the people at these parties and the conversations they are having to conspiracy theories and plan out and out kookyness. Tonight is one of the craziest parties you can go to on the kooky scale and I am dreading it (I want to go back to Iraq.... where the people are normal)

Having said that.... I have now met P/E Obama a couple times now.... he is actually a nice guy (not as genuinely nice as Bush - but likable)

[KidA]

It's kind of funny that the guy leaving drove up our deficit by the billions and Obama is being taken to task for having an expensive inauguration?

[Psi Brr]

Italy ... meh.He didn't say Sicily... he said, "Golfo Aranci." Me... I like Capri... or Tuscany.

[10thvet]

$160,000,000.00 worth of circus. I can understand the pomp and circumstance...it is after all a Presidential inauguration. But really, $160,000,000.00 worth? :rolleyes:

A talking head from the Pres Elect camp said yesterday that $100,000,000 of that was spent on security. I sure hope they have enough security because the whole thing is just one big target just begging to be hit. Not the presidential party itself but along the edges and the middle.

How did HBO get the rights to it? I bet some American taxpayer money was spent on it.

[iraqgunz]

Good point on the HBO thing. Is HBO going to air it free for everyone? Since it is a public even and tax payer money has been spent on it in some way directly or indirectly. Personally I will be watching something on the hajji network MBC action or Fox Movies. Matter of fact "Blackhawk Down" is on tonight on Fox Movies.

A talking head from the Pres Elect camp said yesterday that $100,000,000 of that was spent on security. I sure hope they have enough security because the whole thing is just one big target just begging to be hit. Not the presidential party itself but along the edges and the middle.

How did HBO get the rights to it? I bet some American taxpayer money was spent on it.

[24/7]

$160,000,000.00 worth of circus. I can understand the pomp and circumstance...it is after all a Presidential inauguration. But really, $160,000,000.00 worth? :rolleyes:

Don't worry, it's not our money...we're broke.

China's paying for it. :biggrin::rolleyes::mad:

[Max Power]

It's kind of funny that the guy leaving drove up our deficit by the billions and Obama is being taken to task for having an expensive inauguration?

President Bush was taken to task pretty hard in the media for his 2004 inauguration, especially since we were in the middle of two wars.

I find it very hypocritical, to say the least, that the government and the PE have all shown a tendency to really get on the case of companies that are receiving bailout money, yet spend a couple hundred thousand for parties, retreats, etc. Yet these same people have no problem with the government spending a couple hundred million... Doesn't make sense to me, but then again, what does in government?

[thatkindasux]

$160,000,000.00 worth of circus. I can understand the pomp and circumstance...it is after all a Presidential inauguration. But really, $160,000,000.00 worth? :rolleyes:



Don't worry, the next bailout/stimulus will cover it:eek:

[Viking]

It's kind of funny that the guy leaving drove up our deficit by the billions and Obama is being taken to task for having an expensive inauguration?


So you're OK with it?


I could actually give a shit less, as long as the guest speaker doesn't start his remarks with "I promise you I'll keep my speech short...."

[Purple36]

Doesn't anyone find it just a little refreshing to see folks upbeat-even if you don't share the sentiment? It IS a reflection of our country that we elected a black guy...it affirms that our country IS still a place where possibilities exist that are unthinkable in many other countries. This IS a big deal when within my lifetime, blacks had to drink at separate water fountains and stood in separate lines. Maybe, just maybe, it's ok to celebrate this moment. We all know that euphoria will end when the cold reality of Washington politics slaps the new President in the face.

And on a separate note:

'Sully' invited to inauguration by Obama
Posted: 08:10

(CNN) — Two Obama inaugural officials tell CNN Chesley Sullenberger — "Sully", the US Airways 1549 pilot who safely landed the plane on the Hudson River last Thursday — will attend the Presidential inauguration. He and his crew were personally invited by President-elect Barack Obama when the two spoke by phone last week.

The Inaugural Committee is working out the logistics for both captain and crew.

[Billy L-bach]

Sour grapes or not... more than 65 million Americans cast their vote on November 4th.
did I vote for him? No.
...but 65 million countrymen did.

congratulations Mr. President, enjoy your day and good luck.

[Ole crusty bastard]

I never understood why there was so much hoopla over an Inauguration. Same thing with the big State dinners, time and money could be better spent.

[Ole crusty bastard]

zzz

[Greenhat]

I never understood why there was so much hoopla over an Inauguration.

I think it was John Adams that was sworn in without any hoopla... seems to me to be the sensible way to do it. Take the oath, get to work.

[Psi Brr]

I never understood why there was so much hoopla over an Inauguration. Same thing with the big State dinners, time and money could be better spent.It's the first and last day of peace the President will ever have...

[rgrjoe175]

Sour grapes or not... more than 65 million Americans cast their vote on November 4th.
did I vote for him? No.
...but 65 million countrymen did.

congratulations Mr. President, enjoy your day and good luck.

Bingo!

[ET1/ss nuke]

It's more like a coronation party for Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette than a presidential inauguration, with shades of the restoration of Louis XVII after the overthrow of Napoleon. After decades of bourgoisie presidents with no elite family social standing like Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, plus some interference by the war-obsessed Bush (Napoleon) clan of rival blue-bloods, the Kennedy camelot has been restored with a royal presidency before which the media and social elites may bow in grateful supplication. To show deference to the original royal line, one of their token claimants to the throne, Caroline, has been granted the opportunity to rubber-stamp the new king's decrees from her seat in the senate. While Louis, er, Barack waves at the adoring crowds of petty nobles, his Cardinal Nancy Pelosi Richelieu is busy drafting criminal charges against the sans-coulottes so recently overthrown. The Versailles White House will be the scene of endless fancy ball gowns and debauched multi-millionaires, while Marie will display fabulous new dresses and jewelry daily along with her appetite for arugula. Nevermind the economic woes beyond Versailles, there is too much to celebrate right now. Besides, the problems out there in the hinterland are probably nothing worth losing your head over. :rolleyes:

[SIERRA_339]

IMHO, it seems to me the media is just trying to slap some jelly on the shit sandwhich we are all about to eat.

Call it what you will, distraction, smoke, etc. They figure if they distract the general public sheep, no one will notice how bad it is.

My .02

[Parajuevos]

Don't worry, it's not our money...we're broke.

China's paying for it. :biggrin::rolleyes::mad:

Good point. Scary, but good.:eek:

[zog]

American politics has had its commercially cheesy side forever, and started getting more cheesy and more commercial with the advent of campaign buttons in the 1850s. And DC (my native land and home) always has had lost My inaugural memories go back to JFK. It was cold (not quite as cold as it wol;l; be Tuesdayeesy sleaze for thew tourists: The fake bromze Washington Monument thermometers come to mind.
My inaugural memories go back to JFK. It was cold, but not quite as cold as it will be Tuesday. And it snowed the day before the inauguration. Soldiers used flamethrowers (no lie) to clear some of the ice and snow. My mother was at the swearing in, then on the East Front of the Capitol, and she and some neighbors tell of gathering around a man from Hawaii who was unprepared for the cold to keep him warm. My father, sister and I gatyhered around a black and white Zenith. I still have several metal NO PARKING sigbns from way back then. My later music teacher was then a member of the US Marine Band (Presidents Own) and he told of all the brass players having a flask of vodka and straw in their red tunics so they could blow it through the horns so the valves abnd slides wouldnt freeze. He sais they all were drubk by the time they got to the reviewing stand at the White House. Fir Reagan '85, it was too cvold ( -3 before wind chill) for any outside stuff.
It's always a circus. But this time there's probaby going to be a whole lot more people than previous inaugurals -- thiugh no one really knows, not DC police, not US Park Police, not Secret Service. Even the lowest estiamtes easily top previous events in DC, so there's a whole lot more security. Add regular old inflation, plus increased security due to a higher percieved threat to Barack Obama (yes, say the three main police operations referred aboved) becaise, well, he's out first black president.
The non-security costs are being paid for with donations and tickets, as is some of the security cost.
I was expecting to put up a Tuskeegee airman (well, one of the squadron mechanics, nit a pilot; they are staying downtown in hotels; the little guys get forgotten again) and I had all the stuff for his favorite finner his wife tolf me, plus some of my own additions. But his wife is in the hodpital in North Carolina now and he's staying there with her. I miss out on getting some history from him (he also was a civil rights activist, was in some sit-ins in the 50s and early 60s in NC).
The media (my formerly chosen profession) hasnt been all that good. They werent all that good covering Bush, nor the campaign, nor .... Newspapers have been mighty lax, and awfully boring; no damned wonder they are going broke.
Ah well. The bard are open until 4 a.m. in DC in honor of American capitalism and the inauguration.
For whatever reason, and like it or not depending on which side you are on, America wants to party. So while Thomas Jefferson went to a rooming house for his dinner inaugural evening, we'll alkl party the hell out of the town Tuesday night. (Not me; the amateur drinkers will be too m

[Soot]

I don't recall seeing a media craze like this since the early days of the Iraq war, complete with catchy marketing slogans, state of the art CENTCOM briefing tents, embeded reporters, and administration-written news copy.

Both sides like their government sponsored entertainment.

For some it's circuses, for others it's gladiators.

[Hot Mess]

The media (my formerly chosen profession)

Humm, would have been nice if you would have proof read. Makes it easier to read and such:rolleyes:

[RipperTOW]

Less than 24 hours until lions lay down with lambs.

As I sit here, at the cusp of the future, I can't help but wonder what it's going to be like to live in a world where all our problems have been solved.

On a separate note, anybody want to trade dollars for property or gold? Let me know.

Take care.

[RipperTOW]

I don't recall seeing a media craze like this since the early days of the Iraq war, complete with catchy marketing slogans, state of the art CENTCOM briefing tents, embeded reporters, and administration-written news copy.

Both sides like their government sponsored entertainment.

For some it's circuses, for others it's gladiators.

"Gladiators."

I would have picked a different word.

Why don't you let go of your jadedness over Iraq for a night, go grab a beaujolais and watch your inauguration.

Once your buddies get done singing "Ding, dong, the witch is dead," tomorrow, and it's all out of your system, how about we give the oblique "Bush Lied" mantra a rest for a while?

He's virtually gone. You can move on.

[Soot]

"Gladiators."

I would have picked a different word.

I would have too if I could have thought of a more appropriate word to fit in with the "pandering to the Roman mob" theme that's run through this thread.

Why don't you let go of your jadedness over Iraq for a night, go rab a beajolais and watch your inauguration.

Once your buddies get done singing "Ding, dong, the witch is dead," tomorrow, and it's all out of your system, how about we give the oblique "Bush Lied" mantra a rest for a while?He's virtually gone. You can move on.

You're reading too much in to things.

My comment was in response to the criticisim of the Obama inaguration in comparison to an ancient Roaman circus. That's all. No alterior motives, no hidden agenda, no commentary on the Bush presidency or OIF in general.

I don't see too much difference between the war in Iraq being sold as a media spectacle and the inauguration of president-elect Obama being sold as a media spectacle.

I think they're both bullshit. But one was getting disproportionate attention in this thread so I just thought I'd mention the other.

[Okie75]

What the hell is going on with this? This post is nothing intended toward Obama or his group at all. But what the hell is with the whole inauguration? It is like a damn zoo.

Watching the news this morning, a few things that really annoyed me:

- Obama-O's cereal: I mean, really. WTF. Is that what our country has come too? Selling cereal named after the President? :rolleyes:

- Obama sneakers (with his face on the side): Again, repeat above. WTF?

- Beyonce is performing at the inauguration. What the hell is that about? It's not a freakin music concert - it's a Presidential inauguration.

- The media airing the Kenyans celebrating: they are calling Obama the first "African President of the US." He is an American not an African. Idiots.

- the media in general: I still do not know what Obama plans to do as President because the media won't tell us. They are more concerned with what his kids are doing and what his wife is wearing than his plans to save America. He may have great plans for the economy and all but who knows because the media does not let us know. If I hear one more thing about his kids Im moving to Canada.

Ok, that's enough of my rant right now. I sound like a bitter old man complaining about the younger generation ruining something. :biggrin:


TMZ, the enquirer, all these different Paparazzi, etc... The President-Elect is a celeb now, we better get used to it over the next 4 years.

They put him right up there with Brittany, Jamie-Lynn, Lindsay and the rest of the celebs. Hopefully the P.E. will understand this isnt a game, or entertainment.

**sigh**

in other news, P.E. Obama got a Poodle, or something like that.. .ugh...

[RipperTOW]

I would have too if I could have thought of a more appropriate word to fit in with the "pandering to the Roman mob" theme that's run through this thread.



You're reading too much in to things.

My comment was in response to the criticisim of the Obama inaguration in comparison to an ancient Roaman circus. That's all. No alterior motives, no hidden agenda, no commentary on the Bush presidency or OIF in general.

I don't see too much difference between the war in Iraq being sold as a media spectacle and the inauguration of president-elect Obama being sold as a media spectacle.

I think they're both bullshit. But one was getting disproportionate attention in this thread so I just thought I'd mention the other.

Fair enough. You've caught me on a sensitive evening. Apology out.

[Gypsy]

Don't worry, it's not our money...we're broke.

China's paying for it. :biggrin::rolleyes::mad:

Don't worry, the next bailout/stimulus will cover it

Maybe they're going half and half? :biggrin:

President Bush was taken to task pretty hard in the media for his 2004 inauguration, especially since we were in the middle of two wars.




True, but IIRC President Bush's inauguration costs were approximately $48 Million.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

So what?
STFU and drive on.

Over the top galas with celebrities and big name bands following inaugurations are nothing new.

President Obama's detractor's have often made fun of his popularity, likening him to a celebrity.
That's just pathetic.
A president is popular and that's a bad thing?

I'm sorry but I've seen some ridiculous partisan nitpicking here.

The same people here posting farewells to President Bush, defending him as though he walked on water and implying his detractors are unAmerican... are the same people who almost seem to want President Obama to fail and are looking for any little thing to call him a failed President... before he's even started.

As to the turnout...
Forget for a second that it is Obama or even a Democrat...
For the first time in the history of these great United States, a black men is about to take the office of President.

This is a historic event.
The fact that people are making a buck selling cheap novelty merchandise doesn't make it any less historic.

The enormous turnout is no surprise.

And that some people are still so bitter over the election that they mock it is just sad.

I did not vote for president Obama, but I am not mocking this inaguration and hoping he fails.
Those of you that are should really check your priorities.

[Expatmedic]

So far what I'm seeing on the news is race related only. As a viewer I'm sick of it already and will not watch anymore.

"is obama obligated to help blacks?" "what will obama do to help blacks?"

I could have swore that he was the President of the United States, and everyone's leader.

Wasn't that the premise of of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's famous speach and the center of his beliefs, equality for ALL men/women?

The news networks have lost me already as a viewer and I only watched for 15 minutes.

Shakes head and walks away.

[TJ2JM1783]

What circus? I have banned myself from the news stations for the past week.:biggrin: The minute I saw a clip of Michele Obama questioning the President Elect's dishwashing skills, I decided it was time to restrict my TV watching to really important news like the sports stations. ;)

Considering the self-centricity of the American public, I am not surprised that there is mass interest in BEING part of history. I am not at all sure it is him, but it with which they are "enamored". I can only hope they had fun these past 2 1/2 months.

[TowGunner]

Well... I am officially cordoned into DC now... all the bridge traffic is now locked down like check point 1.

The amount of celebs here is off the stinking charts.... it is insane.... it feels like LA. Lucky for me I am working and not able to watch the news or I would probably be disgusted like the rest of you.

[RipperTOW]

The same people here posting farewells to President Bush, defending him as though he walked on water and implying his detractors are unAmerican... are the same people who almost seem to want President Obama to fail and are looking for any little thing to call him a failed President... before he's even started.


My mother voted for him and is an unapologetic liberal and when I talked to her Sunday she was complaining about the extravaganza being out of step with the priorities of this nation.

LOL, "History may be kind to Bush, I, however, will not!!!" Gimme a break. You're like the SOCNET lovechild of Michael Moore and Susan Sontag, you've been so doggedly anti-Bush. Every breath he has taken has earned your scrutiny and input, as your posting record here amply demonstrates.

Now that your cause celeb - President Obama - has been elected, you're advice to everyone is to "chill out?" "Don't be so partisan?" LOL. Do you want to be taken seriously?

[Doc P]

Way too much coverage, money spent on celebrations & tours, and people acting as if he is going to be sworn in, snap his fingers and *poof*, problems solved.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

My mother voted for him and is an unapologetic liberal and when I talked to her Sunday she was complaining about the extravaganza being out of step with the priorities of this nation.

LOL, "History may be kind to Bush, I, however, will not!!!" Gimme a break. You're like the SOCNET lovechild of Michael Moore and Susan Sontag, you've been so doggedly anti-Bush. Every breath he has taken has earned your scrutiny and input, as your posting record here amply demonstrates.

Now that your cause celeb - President Obama - has been elected, you're advice to everyone is to "chill out?" "Don't be so partisan?" LOL. Do you want to be taken seriously?Well, as long as you're going to get personal and mock me...
Try not to misquote me so badly.
And if you've read my posts over the years you would know I have absolutely no love for the wackos on the radical left like Michael Moore.
I think he's a piece of shit and I've said it on many occasions.
Perhaps you fail to understand that not everyone who disaproved of President Bush falls into the same irrational extremist category.
Your comparing me to Michael Moore is a fucking insult.

Also your comment about Obama being my "cause celeb" is utterly ignorant and even further insulting.
During the election I consistently said I did not support Barack Obama because I felt he was underqualified and several of his scandals showed he lacked situational awareness.
I have also repeatedly said that I was not going to and did not vote for him.
I even wrote that in the post that you are responding to... another obvious point in my post you clearly failed to understand.

Apparently you fail to understand that not everyone who is/was critical of the Bush administration falls into your same stereotyped category.

Any other assumptions?

edit to add:
Is there anything I wrote in the post above that you responded to that you actually disagree with?
Or do you just have a problem with it because it came from me?

[Keganswar]

Meh I wrote a big post bitching about the whole thing. But I am more pissed at how the media is then the actual event. Let the guy have his party. Then get to work. I hope he does a good job. Also an African American LE I work with made a very good point. He is the first BI racial president not the first African American president.


Ps. The media is fucking pathetic. I am going to get more coffee.

[Matchanu]

And that some people are still so bitter over the election that they mock it is just sad.

.


You are right, I'm starting a "wer'e sorry" website to lament the election.


Oh wait, that's already been done.;)


I'm just fucking with you.

Good on the new POTUS, didn't vote for him, don't particularly like him, but I do wish him all the best and hopes he does well, for the sake of all of us.

[KidA]

I do think everyone on the Mall today is a fooking idiot though. It's cold and, hell, I've got a better view from my TV.

Never understand people who would stand in line, anywhere, to maybe catch a glimpse of another human being.

[Balls]

He is the first BI racial president not the first African American president.

Amen. So sick of hearing all of the racial side of this damn thing.

[Psi Brr]

I could actually care less about his racial roots, and the press has gone WAY overboard with it. I care whether or not the man can do the job. I hope he capably exceeds everyone's expectations of him.

[Billy L-bach]

I prefer to see him as the 44th President of the United States of America.

"First" anything cheapens the office and turns it into a sideshow. I am certain he will quickly EARN the praise of some and the disappointment of others. I doubt that he will change my political leanings enough to earn my vote when the next election rolls around, but as of 12 noon EST, 20-Jan-09 he is 'the man'.

160,000,000... was there any doubt on the morning of 5-November 2008 that today would be any less than what it is? Today has been bought and paid for by the American public. Excessive? I think so, but then again who defines the high water mark for excessive?

Again, congratulations Mr President, enjoy your day, get some rest, and most of all, good luck.

Tomorrow "WE" expect a full days work.

[Lannister]

... ... He is the first BI racial president not the first African American president... [brevity edit]...

Amen. So sick of hearing all of the racial side of this damn thing.

Umm...

"Black man, black woman, black baby / White man, white woman, white baby / White man, black woman, black baby / Black man, white woman, black baby."

"The United States is the only country in the world in which a white mother can have a black child but a black mother cannot have a white child."


The one-drop rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule)is a historical colloquial term in the United States that holds that [B]a person with any trace of African ancestry is considered black unless having an alternative non-white ancestry which he or she can claim, such as Native American, Asian, Arab, or Australian aboriginal.[1] It developed most strongly out of the binary culture of long years of institutionalized slavery.


:rolleyes:

New Life for the "One Drop" Rule
PBS - Multiracial America - Who is black? One nation's definition
PBS - Brazil in Black and White
Battles in Red, Black, and White: Virginia's Racial Integrity Law of 1924
"One Drop of Blood" by Lawrence Wright, The New Yorker, July 24, 1994
Features of Today’s One-Drop Rule
Foreseeable Consequences of Recent Changes in the One-Drop Rule by Frank W. Sweet
BATSON REVISITED IN AMERICA’S "NEW ERA" OF MULTIRACIAL PERSONS by John Terrence A. Rosenthal

[rgrjoe175]

I actually love the way people bitch about the cost of such events. This is like DC getting the Super Bowl x 10.

Look at all that money that folks are earning in these trying economic times. It is the free market at work.

Go find something else to snivel about.

Good luck President Obama.

And just remember Mr. President when you screw up during your tenure.... you are officially just like every other President before you. Just stand up, shake it off and get back to work.

Regards,

JP

PS, if your screw up is of a sexual nature, please for all our sake, make sure she is HOT!!!!

[Okie75]

So what?
STFU and drive on.

Over the top galas with celebrities and big name bands following inaugurations are nothing new.

President Obama's detractor's have often made fun of his popularity, likening him to a celebrity.
That's just pathetic.
A president is popular and that's a bad thing?

I'm sorry but I've seen some ridiculous partisan nitpicking here.

The same people here posting farewells to President Bush, defending him as though he walked on water and implying his detractors are unAmerican... are the same people who almost seem to want President Obama to fail and are looking for any little thing to call him a failed President... before he's even started.

I did not vote for president Obama, but I am not mocking this inaguration and hoping he fails.
Those of you that are should really check your priorities.


Your absolutely correct. I hope he succeeds and becomes a GREAT president. We need a GREAT president to get us through the coming years.

I just feel like his "celeb" status and the media gave an unfair angle, however, the people spoke and he is OUR president.

Thank you for slapping me back to reality.

[Matchanu]

I actually love the way people bitch about the cost of such events. This is like DC getting the Super Bowl x 10.

Look at all that money that folks are earning in these trying economic times. It is the free market at work.



I was thinking the same thing.



PS, if your screw up is of a sexual nature, please for all our sake, make sure she is HOT!!!!


LOL!

[Okie75]

Regardless of your stances, and mine of course. Watching the Inauguration live right now, seeing how many people are there, and realizing that this is history being written as we sit.... We must all agree that it is a great time to be alive.

Debacle or not, it is great that our people, are celebrating the President and our freedom...

[Guy]

During his taking the oath...I could have sworn they said "Thank you Mr. President" at the end.....:confused:

Stay safe.

[RipperTOW]

edit to add:
Is there anything I wrote in the post above that you responded to that you actually disagree with?
Or do you just have a problem with it because it came from me?

I am not a Bush fanatic. I don't think he was a fantastic president. I am, however, SO SICK of 4+ years of monday morning quarterbacking of his presidency - which happened all along the WMD, Bush Lied axis argument. My recollection of your posts is that you have been one such person. I don't recall many things Bush has done since I've been reading your posts on SOCNET - which, because of work, is not every day - that you have not been very critical of. So, in my opinion, you are yourself a very partisan person. The Moore/Sontag association was hyperbole, and I didn't mean to touch such a nerve with you. But they are both hyperpartisan, and that is my intepretation of your ideas. It's how it comes across to me.

So, I took it as a little silly for you to make a remark of indignation about people being partisan. Partisanship seems to have been a popular theme in your own ideas - by my estimation - for quite some time. It is irritating, to me, to hear you lecturing others on something which you, in my estimate, are consistently guilty of.

But, IMO, this is an eternal problem of the Left - of whom, you, I consider (no "offense" intended, I'm explaining my reaction because you seem very miffed) - that you seem incapable of recognizing yourselves as partisan. It's like, "Ok, here I am, this must be the middle." I'm not comparing you in particular to Pelosi or Kerry, or Sontag or Moore, but they share this view as well. That the partisans are the others, and their constant criticisms are just responsible citizenship.

I wouldn't imagine you're happy with that explanation, but that is, in my best explanation, my objection to your post and your ideas in general.

Again, saying "you're the Moore/Sontag of SOCNET" was intended to mean: "you're the far Left of SOCNET." Not: you're just like Michael Moore.

[MakoZeroSix]

So, I thought that was a really good speech. And it was short. Way to score some points right off the bat. I don't know how they managed to fuck up the oath, though. That had to be embarrassing.

[hile]

So, I thought that was a really good speech. And it was short. Way to score some points right off the bat. I don't know how they managed to fuck up the oath, though. That had to be embarrassing.

I only had a video feed here at my desk (no audio since I took the headphones home last week). How did they fuck up the oath?

[smp52]

So, I thought that was a really good speech. And it was short. Way to score some points right off the bat. I don't know how they managed to fuck up the oath, though. That had to be embarrassing.

Agreed. A very centerist, pragmatic speech.

I think the speed at which the Chief Justice conducted the ceremony threw the timing off. I watched a live feed on Voice of America, so I don't know if my feed was choppy, but that's what it seemed like.

[Viking]

I only had a video feed here at my desk (no audio since I took the headphones home last week). How did they fuck up the oath?

O cut Roberts off once at the beginning, and then had to have the words repeated at some point in the middle. Speech went well from what I could tell having it on in the background.

[rgrjoe175]

OUR President is a great speaker.


JP

[sierraseven]

O cut Roberts off once at the beginning, and then had to have the words repeated at some point in the middle. Speech went well from what I could tell having it on in the background.

The Chief Justice messed up the oath ... Pres. Obama apparently had it memorized, and was tripped up by hearing something other than what he expected. But they got back on track.

S7

[Psi Brr]

I tried to catch it at work, and missed it. Now we get to relive it for the next week. I AM glad the circus is over. I hope he can get to work now.

Good luck Mr. President, and godspeed.

[zog]

The speech was a strong break from Bush and Cheney's ideas. And while most of the message itself was quite inspiring, the words themselves didnt feel as strong as U tghink they could have. But th`en, if they had been stronger, hios breal with the previous admin might have sounded more hostile.

Watcha gonna do?

[okami1]

Some pics from the UC Berkeley turnout for the inauguration:

6045

6046

Quite a few people there, and I observed better behavior and more decorum during the National Anthem than I am used to from my native city.

Except this:

6044

On the street as I walked up to campus after getting my coffee. Fucking hilarious. This is what protest has come to; throwing shoes at a painting. Certain people here will never get it.

[Drager]

The whole thing disgusts me. I plan on working and living in America long enough to make a couple of million and then I'm out of here...going to retire in Golfo Aranci. My house will be the one right of the water inlet, next to the sandbar... :cool:
Shit I'll go, only if there is a Bar on the beach, oh and it has to have a stripper pole:biggrin:

[JDAM]

Drager, when it comes to clubs and beaches, you don't get any better than Sardinia, IMO. It is really nice, I've been there before. It's the perfect place to retire.

Golfo Aranci is south of Porto Cervo but north of Olbia, on the Eastern coastline...below Cannigione and Baja Sardinia. The women are absolutely incredible as is the culture. Beaches are as good as it gets, with plenty of fresh seafood. Lots of stuff to do in the surrounding area as far as outdoors activites, i.e. hiking, exploring ancient ruins, diving (which is fucking awesome btw), swimming, etc... You name it you can do it over there. Corsica is just right across the water, you can see it from the northern coastline of Sardinia.

The roads were literally built for riding motorcycles. Guys over there are crazy on streetbikes, you see them flying around corners dragging footpegs, etc... Heard once that Valentino Rossi comes down there in the off season to ride and practice. Road-race anyone? :cool:

There is actually a really nice beach bar north of there on the island of Santo Stefano, which, coincidentally, is both a military base and a club med resort...all on one island lol. There is a Naval Support Activity in which a Sub Tender is moored up, that provides submarine replentishment operations on one side (a joint US/Italian base), while directly on the other side of the island is a private Club Med beach. :biggrin:

We used to swim over during the summer, or just jump off the ferry when it got close... From the beach it was close to a mile swim across...lot's of fun...just watch out for boats... ;)

[Doc P]

Slept through the live version after a night shift, but heard his speech on NPR this evening and was/am quite impressed.

[SIERRA_339]

Didnt they see things like this in Germany in the 30's?

WTF....

[Bravo Five Romeo]

Didnt they see things like this in Germany in the 30's?

WTF....Like what?

Edit to add:
If you're going to comparisson to Hitler or the Nazis, please don't bother.

[SIERRA_339]

Circus political speeches....and crowds to match.

[Purple36]

And how is this different from any political event? Other than a large segment of society believes a barrier has been overcome and wanted to share in that moment?

Geez, some of the rants here are as obnoxious as the left wingers rantings against conservatives.

What a drag.

[CV]

Drag? What about the incessant booing from the crowd when the out-going President was announced? That was uncalled for and pathetic.

[bobofthedesert]

Inaugural Speech: Uninspiring. No surprise, apparently he insisted on doing it himself instead of letting Axelrod write it as with all his other speeches.....
Poem: Sucked. "The teacher says "Pick up your pencil, and begin"....the farmer looks up at the sky........" :rolleyes:
Invocation: Jeez, where to start with this....."when Black don't have to go to the back, when Brown can hang around, when Yellow can be mellow, when the Red Man can get a headband, and White will do what's right"...........WTF.

IIRC, a majority of white America voted for the new POTUS.....guess that wasn't right enough.......and of course, Native Americans can now have the headband they always wanted......ROFLMAO....

[SIERRA_339]

Booing....thats obnoxious. But I would expect nothing less from those left wing sheep in attendance.

[zog]

Initially, I was a bit disapointed by the speech: Great message, but the words seemed weak. I've listened to it three times now (CSPAN) and now I have to give him and his speechwriters credit. The message was, in faintly etched code, was a sharp break from Bush/Cheney. If the language itself had been as strong as the message, it would have come off way too negative.

The outward (international) focus of the speech was very much "OK, the other guys are gone and America is back. That doesnt mean you can fuck with us, but the Great Satan has left the building."

The crowd was huge. My lady friend was on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, and the crowd was solid from 23rd st (The ramp to Teddy Roosevelt Bridge) to the Capitol, and was from Independence Acvenue on the south to past I street on the north.

The biggest crowd in DC history.

One cheap shot by the crowd. When Bush was introduced, a bunch of folk near the front started singing "Na Na Hey Hey Goodbye"

John Lewis was one of the first to take his seat on the stand. He was alone, just sitting there. I hope there's some good still shots. His thoughts ... one of the last of the movement's greats, with scars from Selma etc, waiting for Obama's swearing in.

Teddy Kennedy had a seizure at the lunch. Chief of neurosurgery at Washington Hospital Center said it was more an issue of fatigue than an advancement of the cancer. Like him or not, Teddy will be good to have around when addressing Veterans Administration issues.

The parties are rolling.

[bmbsqd]

I think Obama did well at the CiC's Ball.

[Spinner]

It was reported that the President will attend 10 balls this evening.

Considering the amount of time it takes to shuttle from one ball to the next, I figure this will give the Obamas about 30 minutes at each ball. Enough time for a toast and a dance.

I figure it's probably like this for all the incoming Presidents, expecially during their first inauguration.

[ASByron]

Random insertion but I was very suprised with the security at the concert on Sunday...

I went towards the end with a friend of mine to check out the crowd (had never been to an inauguration before) and decided waiting 2.5 hours in line was unacceptable. Two of us found an opening in the fence and walked straight in with backpacks... no one ever checked us and we both got to within about 500 yards of the soon-to-be president while he was speaking. Interesting to think about the fact that someone could pull that off, especially when anything could have been in the backpacks. To add to it we left the same way and saw people doing the same thing.

Anyone happen to be there and have a similiar experience?

[JDAM]

no one ever checked us and we both got to within about 500 yards of the soon-to-be president while he was speaking.

That's close enough to do some damage, that's for sure...

[ET1/ss nuke]

Good on the new POTUS, didn't vote for him, don't particularly like him, but I do wish him all the best and hopes he does well, for the sake of all of us.

Amen.

My expectations are low, but I sincerely hope he exceeds them. I don't like him or what he stands for as a politician, but as President I will pray for him daily to do what is right for our country. When (not if - he is human, you know) he screws up, I'll try to remember to pray for him twice as much as I criticize him.

I'm going to need a new set of knee pads. :o

[sierraseven]

Poem: Sucked.

Sucked bad. And not in a good way.

I guess ten stanzas in limerick form was too much to hope for huh?

I thought Aretha Franklin didn't sound good, compared to her younger days. But I really liked the Star-Spangled Banner by the Navy Sea Chanters (have I got the name right?)

But the poet ... I see a Saturday Night Live parody in it.

S7

[Viking]

The poem was probably fine, but the reading was a hatchet job.

[Balls]

Overall, I've been impressed with Obama all day. I think he may go down as one of the world's greatest speakers.....Hope he can run the office and produce results as well as he speaks.


Also, can someone remove that stupid pic with the target painted on Bush's face and the bin of shoes?....

[nofear]

Good luck to your new President, and to the USA.

I have to say the fervour with which the rest of the planet is meeting President Obama is...well.....confusing. I simply do not understand what all the excitement is about.

Is everyone excited that President Bush has left, or excited about the new President? Because I do not see what there is to be so excited about regarding a person who was relatively unknown prior to this election.

As an aside...

Sour grapes or not... more than 65 million Americans cast their vote on November 4th.
did I vote for him? No.
...but 65 million countrymen did.

congratulations Mr. President, enjoy your day and good luck.

Isn't 65 million out of over 300 million a minority?

No disrespect intended. Good luck to the US and to those who serve their country.

[Expatmedic]

[QUOTE=nofear;1095980]Isn't 65 million out of over 300 million a minority?QUOTE]

Numbers wise yes. But look at it this way. Roughly 150 million are eligible to vote. So roughly 45% voted.

Still not a minority group, as that is defined as people who are not empowered to effect change, irrespective of the number of people in the group. That 45% voted. The others just sat there.

[trident86]

I think he may go down as one of the world's greatest speakers


Right behind Hitler--and that is in NO way a comparison of the politics of the two, just the hype either one is able to generate among the sheeple.

I liked the wording and presentation of the President's inauguration speech, but am skeptical of the follow through. I believe our POTUS has the right intent, but it requires the cooperation of the American people, our Senate and Congress--especially those who voted him into office. I have faith in the man so far, but not in the masses I see crying on TV during the interviews.....

[RangerCharlie]

Bush senior had a Sweet hat on!

[smp52]

I believe our POTUS has the right intent, but it requires the cooperation of the American people, our Senate and Congress--especially those who voted him into office. I have faith in the man so far, but not in the masses I see crying on TV during the interviews.....

I was watching a PBS Frontline episode yesterday on the President's rise through politics and it was interesting that througout his career as a student, community organizer, and a politician, it was his own party's machine that he's had to circumvent.

They had some of his Harvard law school classmates on and were discussing how/when he became the Harvard Law Review's president, the President's supporters were the ones most disappointed as they thought he would use the position to further the agenda of the political left at Harvard. A former classmate, who was in the federalist society said that President Obama took 10 times more grief from his own than anyone else and that once he took the President's position, his goal was to first and foremost put out a top rate publication, not push political agendas.

Seems like this scenario has been playing itself over and over again in some shape/form at each step of his career. Only time will tell how challenges are faced down, but like many here have already predicted, Democrats are likely to give him the biggest grief.

[Mini-Poly]

I thought Aretha Franklin didn't sound good, compared to her younger days.




S7

I agree.
However, she kind of reminded me of that scene in "Coming to America", where that fat guys hits the high note for Eddie Murphy's wedding.( I wish I could find a still picture of that guy) Much "RESPECT" to Ritha' though.

[mags123]

I have to say the fervour with which the rest of the planet is meeting President Obama is...well.....confusing. I simply do not understand what all the excitement is about.

Is everyone excited that President Bush has left, or excited about the new President? Because I do not see what there is to be so excited about regarding a person who was relatively unknown prior to this election.



Nofear - I think Obama's relative popularity across the world is a combination of seeing the former President leave and the well-crafted message of hope / change that Obama has preached since day one.

Obama has a golden opportunity to leverage his intl popularity into rallying real support for US foreign policy objectives worldwide. Lets hope he uses this political cash.

[Purple36]

I think an additional aspect for some is to reaffirm possibilities abound in the US. These same opportunities aren't possible in many places.

[RipperTOW]

Obama has a golden opportunity to leverage his intl popularity into rallying real support for US foreign policy objectives worldwide. Lets hope he uses this political cash.

He's gained the popularity by promising change on the security front that foreign countries are hoping for - less unilateralism, more diplomacy, closing Gitmo, no torture, and I am eager to see if he continues Bush's resistance to seeing US soldiers tried in the World Court, which made him very unpopular with many abroad.

I think, in other words, he's gained that leverage by taking the hard-line off the table, and agreeing to involve the rest of the world in our security process. He's given leverage on security, IMHO, to gain popularity, which he may be able to again leverage to a neutral effect.

He will not, in other words, be able to gain support for new military action pre-emptively, because his professed dislike of those strategies is exactly what makes him popular abroad.

Double edged sword. We'll see how it works.

[Spinner]

I have to say the fervour with which the rest of the planet is meeting President Obama is...well.....confusing. I simply do not understand what all the excitement is about.



It's a combination of a lot of things. A perfect storm of being in the right place at the right time when he decided to run for higher office back in 2004, as well as two key moments in both the primary and general elections.

Prior to that, the President was a fairly obscure state senator representing a district on the south side of Chicago. He wound up winning the Democratic primary for the US Senate when his main opponent Blair Hull got caught up in allegations made by his former wife. Hull was expected to win that primary prior to these allegations surfacing.

http://www.chicagomaroon.com/2006/11/14/remember-blair-hull-barack-obama-does

In the general election, same thing. His Republican opponent, Jack Ryan, was taken down by allegations that were made in his divorce to Jeri Ryan, known for her Star Trek role as a mutant borg, of attempting to entice her to join him at a sex club in Paris.

Hull's meltdown was probably more instrumental, as he had a healthy lead over Obama going into the final months of campaigning in the primary, but Barack Obama wasn't necessarily a lock to roll over Jack Ryan in the general election.

So, in effect, the President owes his good electoral fortune (in addition to his own skills as a politician) to two women who sunk their former husbands campaigns.

After being elected US Senator, he solidified himself in the minds of Democratic voters with his keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, just as Bill Clinton did at the DNC in 1988. In fact, my roomate at DLI at the time, who was from Arkansas, told me after Clinton's appearance that he'd be President some day, and he was right.

That's how the wheels turn in American politics.

[okami1]

I very much respected and enjoyed the fact that he used a military servicemember as his example of what it means to be called to service. He went on to say that being a citizen means understanding and heeding that call to service in the same manner and with the same dedication to mission as the military.

Balls- So we're clear (this is the internet, after all) I posted that pic to highlight a certain silly and pathetic impotence that the moonbat leftie crowd embodies. They want "change" but aren't willing to do the work; the inglorious and everyday drudgery and toil. So they fucking cry about it. The quote written over the target said "one last kiss". Pisses me off.

[mags123]

He will not, in other words, be able to gain support for new military action pre-emptively, because his professed dislike of those strategies is exactly what makes him popular abroad.

Double edged sword. We'll see how it works.

RipperTOW - Great point. For what it is worth, it may not matter as I highly doubt Obama would have used any political cash to gain support for pre-emptive action anyways.

I do not agree completely with your assertion that he has sacrificed any potential leverage on the security front. Rather, I believe he is using more guile and less "in your face" methods than the previous administration.

This doesn't mean he will be able to do less, in fact, it may just mean he will be in a position to do more.

Opposing torture, GITMO and unilateralism and promoting diplomacy will greatly improve our ability to reach our objectives and would have happened regardless of which candidate won the election.

It is simply the smart thing to do.

[Bravo Five Romeo]

RipperTOW - Great point. For what it is worth, it may not matter as I highly doubt Obama would have used any political cash to gain support for pre-emptive action anyways.

I do not agree completely with your assertion that he has sacrificed any potential leverage on the security front. Rather, I believe he is using more guile and less "in your face" methods than the previous administration.

This doesn't mean he will be able to do less, in fact, it may just mean he will be in a position to do more.

Opposing torture, GITMO and unilateralism and promoting diplomacy will greatly improve our ability to reach our objectives and would have happened regardless of which candidate won the election.

It is simply the smart thing to do.yep.
Hearts and minds.
No change we make is going to win the hearts and minds of the fanatics.
But we can win the hearts and minds of those who might otherwise turn to fanatacism.

[Silverbullet]

RipperTOW - Great point. For what it is worth, it may not matter as I highly doubt Obama would have used any political cash to gain support for pre-emptive action anyways.

I do not agree completely with your assertion that he has sacrificed any potential leverage on the security front. Rather, I believe he is using more guile and less "in your face" methods than the previous administration.

This doesn't mean he will be able to do less, in fact, it may just mean he will be in a position to do more.

Opposing torture, GITMO and unilateralism and promoting diplomacy will greatly improve our ability to reach our objectives and would have happened regardless of which candidate won the election.

It is simply the smart thing to do.

So you think waterboarding is torture? That is the only thing he opposes. It's not torture. It's a simple coersion method that does not harm the person subjected to it. We've been down that road before.

The previous administration did not condone torture, either, but you post as if President Obama is doing something that is completely different than them. The only thing I see is his opposition to waterboarding that is different.

Same goes with promoting democracy. That was our policy and we did it quite well. You again act as if this is a new thing and new policy. It's not.

Unilateralism? So what? Sometimes it has to be done. The first and most important function of any president is to look out for the best interests of our nation, not to make sure the other nations like what we're doing.

For all our so called unilateral actions and "in your face" behavior it's funny that we're closer to France, Germany, et al now than we were at the beginning of the previous administration. It's especially interesting how their gov't look much more like ours, now, than previously.

President Obama appears to have gotten much more pragmatic after meeting and being briefed by the out going president. I doubt this is a coincidence or part of his original master plan. He's smart and what he saw and heard obviously effected his thinking.

[iraqgunz]

Nofear - I think Obama's relative popularity across the world is a combination of seeing the former President leave and the well-crafted message of hope / change that Obama has preached since day one.

Obama has a golden opportunity to leverage his intl popularity into rallying real support for US foreign policy objectives worldwide. Lets hope he uses this political cash.

Well let's hope that in the process President Obama doesn't sacrifice the security of our country or the hardwork of the last 7 years. You may not agree with his policies and certainly many in the world do not. But, I could careless what they think. As for the "unilateral" thing. We have the right to act when necessary to protect and secure our interests. If the rest of the world chooses to turn a blind eye that's their problem, put it shouldn't be ours. We are running a popularity contest.

As for GITMO maybe we should have put a bullet in them back on the battlefield.

[EchoFiveMike]

More than anything, the Inauguration and it's surrounding hooplah reinforce my view that far too many "Americans" are servile peasants who want a King, not a President:(

I sincerely hope President Obama does well for America; however, I hope he fails utterly in achieveing many of his stated goals since I disagree with them completely and find them contrary to my views of what America should be. S/F.....Ken M

[nofear]

Unilateralism? So what? Sometimes it has to be done. The first and most important function of any president is to look out for the best interests of our nation, not to make sure the other nations like what we're doing.

As for the "unilateral" thing. We have the right to act when necessary to protect and secure our interests.

Couldn't agree more. I hope your President does what's best for YOUR country, and not worry about mine or anyone else's. I'm getting tired of this weakening of security in the name of appeasement and acceptance.

[iraqgunz]

BTW- My spelling was all fucked up in that last post. It should have read "but it shouldn't be ours" and "we aren't running a popularity contest".

[mags123]

Whether you or I think water boarding is torture is besides the point. The new DOJ most definitely will label it as such.

We could discuss the effectiveness of such interview techniques, but let me just say that there is no consensus as to whether it really works.

My point was simply that his opposition to the previous administration's policies will win us allies, allies we need. From a very practical standpoint, it will certainly make it easier for many operators working in the field as well.

On the democracy front, I'm afraid the rest of the world is laughing at us. The previous administration butchered the words "democracy" and "freedom". It would be wise to stop harping on these issues in public for a while and instead concentrate on more realistic issues that would actually further US interests abroad.

[HSpad]

Does the higly educated, theoritical, academic experiences liberals know that the North Koreans (with their Soviet advisors) did the same thing to Ameircans POW during the Korean War? During Vietnam? when the commies invaded Hunary in 1956, Czech in 1968, Afghanistan in 1979....
Oh wait, the victimologists blamed the U.S. military for all the problems. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are lucky the ACLU is defending them because the ACLU forgot to ask the terorists whether they read or understood the Geneva Convention. (Isn't true the ACLU hird a retired Marine JAG?)

[Oldpogue]

Does the higly educated, theoritical, academic experiences liberals know that the North Koreans (with their Soviet advisors) did the same thing to Ameircans POW during the Korean War? During Vietnam? when the commies invaded Hunary in 1956, Czech in 1968, Afghanistan in 1979....
Oh wait, the victimologists blamed the U.S. military for all the problems. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are lucky the ACLU is defending them because the ACLU forgot to ask the terorists whether they read or understood the Geneva Convention. (Isn't true the ACLU hird a retired Marine JAG?)

What's your point. Because terrorists and communists torture their prisoners, its all right for us to ignore the Geneva Convention, or do you what the US to operate on the same level?

[Silverbullet]

Whether you or I think water boarding is torture is besides the point. The new DOJ most definitely will label it as such.

We could discuss the effectiveness of such interview techniques, but let me just say that there is no consensus as to whether it really works.

My point was simply that his opposition to the previous administration's policies will win us allies, allies we need. From a very practical standpoint, it will certainly make it easier for many operators working in the field as well.

On the democracy front, I'm afraid the rest of the world is laughing at us. The previous administration butchered the words "democracy" and "freedom". It would be wise to stop harping on these issues in public for a while and instead concentrate on more realistic issues that would actually further US interests abroad.

Dude you're posting nonsense.

We have allies. Very good ones.

Why don't you name one country we need to become our ally that you think will turn around and become our ally if what you state is correct.

I'll wait......

The rest of the world is not laughing at us. Tell me where you get that from. Please state clearly, exactly what you base that on. Extensive travel, interaction with the rest of the world, etc...?

I'll wait........

The only thing the rest of the world will laugh at is us publishing what and what and what not we allow our interrogators to do and how terrorists will be treated.

As far as the effectiveness of waterboarding, it sure got a well known asshole to speak up real quick when used on him.

It works and it works well.

You really think there is a segment of the world thats saying "great the US has done away with water boarding, now we can be friends." C'mon.....

Water boarding. Interrogations. How about you fill us in on your experiences with either of those as well?

I'll wait.........

[Silverbullet]

Does the higly educated,

Your post made zero sense and has nothing to do with this thread or any points made in it except a few matching words.

You might want to read more, post less for a bit.

Thanks

[Just Another Guy]

What's your point. Because terrorists and communists torture their prisoners, its all right for us to ignore the Geneva Convention, or do you what the US to operate on the same level?

Please identify any guest of GITMO that qualifies under the protection of the Geneva Accords.

[Oldpogue]

Please identify any guest of GITMO that qualifies under the protection of the Geneva Accords.

If they are war criminals, let them be tried as such. If they are murderers, also let them be tried. My son is an 18B and I know he would expect to be tortured if captured, but I don't think that doing likewise here in the States is condusive to putting an end to that kind of behavior. I'm not being naive, I am just trying to draw a moral line in the stand which I think this country has drifted away from. And I know that my son would think I'm full of shit on this matter.

[jsmurphy]

We could discuss the effectiveness of such interview techniques, but let me just say that there is no consensus as to whether it really works.


Are you kidding?

Valuable intel was gathered from the three detainees who were waterboarded.

What's your definition of "works"?

[Matchanu]

Are you kidding?

Valuable intel was gathered from the three detainees who were waterboarded.

What's your definition of "works"?

Slippery slope really.

Where do we draw the line?

Do we treat terrorists with the same respect as POW's, or other criminals for that matter?

If pinching a terrorist gains results that will save countless lives, does the end justify the means?

If we lock someone in a darkened room and find out he's clausterphobic, is that torture?


What techniques are going to be "alowed" in this?

If we catch a known bad guy, and instead of utilizing our own proven and humane techiques, turn him over to another coutry for their less than humane techniques, how is that going to play out?


When we grab a bad guy out of his hut in the middle of the night, what are the "new and improved" techniques for asserting authority and control behind enemy lines when you are in very small numbers?


Some of this info should never of been discussed in the open, nor should the public have common knowledge of this for an un-educated opinion on what they deem as "right and wrong".

Too much is already in the open about this, it can only get worse.

[Silverbullet]

Too much is already in the open about this, it can only get worse.

Thats it in a nutshell. We have Congressional oversight committees who should have dealt with DOD, et al, on this behind closed doors vice politicizing it or even worse tipping our hand to the bad guys about TTP's and limits of advance.

Countries don't become our ally because we do or don't use waterboarding.