Commando Course

[recce_o]

Here is the article from the lastest edition of the Infantry Journal on the proposed commando course. Sounds like it's just an idea this stage.


THE CANADIAN COMMANDO COURSE

Capt J.L. Binns

The Army is suffering a moral crisis. It is losing it's "combat mindset", that outlook of the profession that sets it apart from the rest of society. Combat mindset is the way of thinking that causes leaders to ask "will this make my unit more capable of defeating the enemy" or "Will my soldiers be tougher?" as opposed to what will this do to my career… or why bother, anyone can be uncomfortable". Indications that a combat mindset exists are
intense interest in weapons, and tactics, physical Fitness, combat survival and adventure training. Minor injuries are considered part of training, experimentation with methods and tools to defeat the enemy is encouraged and physical luxuries in the field are seen as weakness.

If the current decline in combativeness is not reversed quickly the army will soon be little more than a police force. One step toward instilling combat mindset into the corporate body of the army is to establish a school with the sole purpose of training soldiers mentally, physically and technically for close combat. I propose that the Army establish a "Commando Course" for this purpose.

AIM

The aim of the Commando Course shall he to indoctrinate soldiers with A combat mindset
and improving the armies ability to right. It will achieve it's goal by.

a.Instilling combat mindset through rigorous indoctrination,
b.Vigorous training in close combat and covert mobility,
c.Creating a big desired qualification to improve morale,
d.Motivating soldiers to prepare themselves for a challenging course,
e.Creating a test bed for infantry weapons, equipment and tactics.
f.Creating a cadre of highly trained irregular warfare instructors.

SCOPE

The course will be based on the World War 2 Commando Course run at Achnacarry,
Scotland. It is not a version of SAS selection, the U.S. Army Ranger program or Special Forces courses. It is a course in how to right. It is a combat skills course not a leadership course nor a unit selection device.

The course would be six weeks long and would be based at the CTC. It would he open to
any trained combat or combat support arm soldier who could pass the pre-course physical fitness test. Which would consist of the current combat swim test with all times and distances doubled, the 13,78 km battle fitness test in 1 hr 45 min minutes, 8 palm down pull ups and a bench press of the candidates body weight. Candidates would also have to fire the infantry PWT to marksman and complete all tests of elementary training on rifle platoon weapons and the pistol within 3 months of attending the Commando School.

The course would last 45 days (39 training, 3 admin, 2 travel days). Each training day
would consist of 16 training hours. The course content (with the percentage of course time devoted to each and approximate hours) would consist of the following:

a. Close Quarter Battle with small arms including training with pistols, M203, flame-throwers, jungle lanes, room clearing, night fighting, expedient weapons and unarmed combat (15.51/ol 97 hours).

b. Demolitions using issue, expedient and foreign explosives (12,5%/78 hours).

c. Combat Survival including resistance to interrogation and counter tracking dog techniques (14.5%/90 hours).

d. Watermanship including combat swimming and the use of assault and recce boats (6%/ 37 hours).

e. Mountaineering (19%/ 118 hours).

f. Combat Medicine including IVs, CPR, practical gunshot treatment and drug administration (2.5%1 16 hours).

g. Foreign Weapons including training on all Russian company level small arms, RPGs and automatic grenade launchers, G3, MG-31, M-60, SA-80, Steyr AUG, MPS, FNC1' and FAMAS Fl.(10%1 62 hours).

h. Live Fire Tactics including bunker,, building and trench clearing, section and platoon ambushes, attacks and counter ambush drills (12.5%/ 78 hours).

i. Helicopter Operations including ILZ marking, rappelling and fast roping. (3%/ 19 hours)

j. Tank Hunting with M72, RPG-7, V, mines and expedient weapons (4.50 %/ 28 hours).

k. Battle Indoctrination including close work with artillery, demolitions and gas (1%/ 6 hours).

l. Physical Training including cross country speed marches and assault courses (15%1 93 hours).


The course would he broken down into a number of phases:

Phase 1 (2 weeks)

Combat survival, mountaineering, watermanship, combat medicine

Phase 2 (2 weeks)

Demolitions, weapons, close' quarter battle, tank hunting, helicopter operations.

Phase 3 (2 weeks)

Weapons, demolitions, live fire tactics, battle indoctrination.

The school should have a number of foreign subject matter experts on staff to help ensure that the curriculum is first rate. Canadian staff would be expected to he graduates of Allied "combat" schools and would receive intensive preparation training over the course of a year. Classes would he based on platoons of 36 students. Five to six classes would be taught annually. The stringent entrance requirements will keep intake low. Staff would fill all platoon and section command slots on tactical exercises with students acting as team leaders. Safety distances would have to he modified by approximately 50 % to increase
realism. The number of safety staff required would need to be reduced as would the need
for special identification or rules preventing them from fitting in with the unit, for example prohibitions on the safety staff from camming up And carrying weapons. The ration scale and accommodation would be austere. There would be few amenities at the school. Students would train for war for six weeks and nothing else. The final exercise would consist of a platoon live fire air assault supported by artillery and attack helicopters followed by an attack on a bunker complex using demolitions, M72, M203 and flame throwers. Preferably, the requirement to climb a cliff could he fitted somewhere into the scenario.

On successful completion of the course the graduates would receive a ornate metallic
badge, similar to those awarded for the French Commando Courses, to be worn on dress
uniforms and DEUs and a subdued "Commando" flash to be worn on combat.

CONLUSION

The establishment of the Commando School just might save the Army by stopping the rot.
It would mold the minds of junior leaders and, slowly rill units with tough combat trained soldiers with the correct combat mindset. Ideally in the future it would be expected that an infantry officer or sergeant major will have graduated from the Commando School and similar intensive training would become the norm throughout the Army.

[Mike]

Is the Canadian Infantry Journal a non-government publication? If it is not, I'm surprised at the amount of criticism in a Canadian government publication. Armor Magazine in the U.S. was under censorship in the last issue.

[recce_o]

Mike, its the official journal of the Canadian Infantry School. The point of a journal is to have free and open debate so that we can arrive at the optimal solution to problems. What's the point of censorship? That's a rhetorical question, I know you don't agree with censorship ;-)

Recce

[TonyM]

Here's what one of our officers had to say about our combat fitness. The D-net page is http://www.vcds.dnd.ca/DGSP/dsc/d2000nws/1999/jun99/art12b_e.asp. Here's the article in case the link is broken.

Prepare for battle (long version)
by Maj. Richard H. Eaton

“The first qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only the second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte, Military Maxims -
The Warrior training program has dropped the fitness performance requirement last year.
Over the last few years, the Warrior program fitness requirement changed annually, dropping from the requirement to complete a 12 km battle march carrying 55 lbs, to no physical requirement at all. Will our current methods of physically and mentally preparing ourselves for the most stressful activity known to man – ground combat – be good enough to ensure that our infantry is tough enough to fight and win the next conflict? Are we, in our efforts to be a fair and equitable employer, doing us, our country, our allies, and our soldiers a disservice by operating a selection system which can not effectively or “officially” screen out those who are unable to achieve sufficiently high qualities of battle fitness?

The aim of this article is to challenge infanteers to develop and implement higher, and more consistently applied, fitness based selection standards for our corps. In addition, it will:


• Remind us of the physical realities of the dismounted infantry battle,
• Review the battle fitness requirements of two other infantry organizations well known for their proven battle fitness standards with a view to modeling our own fitness standards after theirs.


It is obvious that the job of an infantryman is hard, physically and mentally demanding work. To successfully close with and destroy the enemy, infantrymen must be capable of carrying heavy loads of weapons, ammunition and provisions for long distances over all types of terrain – and through all types of climactic conditions – while encountering and defeating the enemy. Yes, you can count on it, we will no doubt encounter terrain and situations preventing us from motoring through to the objective comfortably embussed in our LAV/ Grizzly/ Bison/ M113. This job description inevitably means that infanteers must be prepared to pack exceptionally heavy loads as dictated by the enemy and terrain. As described by Field Marshall Erwin Rommel, the experiences of him and his troops on the Italian front in 1917 were intensely physically demanding:

“The capture of Mount Matajur occurred fifty-two hours after the start of the offensive ... My mountain troopers were in the thick of battle almost uninterruptedly during these hours ... Here, carrying heavy machine guns on their shoulders – they surmounted elevation differences of eight thousand feet uphill and three thousand downhill, and traversed a distance of twelve [straight line] miles through hostile mountain formations”.

General Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, Infantry Attacks, pp.225

Sixty-five years later during the Falklands campaign of 1982, the experiences of LCpl Vincent Bramley, 3 PARA MG Platoon, were not much different from Rommel’s. Following a two day, 50 mile advance to contact on foot, 3 PARA – festooned with personal weapons, grenades, GPMGs and tripods, anti-tank weapons, and as much ammunition as could be carried – moved off to the start line for their attack on Mt. Longdon:

“Lying before us was about twelve kilometers of ground and a river. My kit alone weighed about a hundred pounds, possibly more. Many lads in our group had to swap kit throughout the march - a machine gun for a tripod for example. Milans, being bulky and awkward, went from shoulder to shoulder. As daylight faded I could see the thin line of troops disappearing into the darkness, struggling with their kit ...”

Vincent Bramley, Excursion to Hell – The Battle for Mount Longdon, pp.84

The weight of the ammunition required by the infantry to suppress and destroy the enemy in wartime is clearly the greatest difference between loads we carry in peacetime exercises and war. “Our main load was ammunition.” recounts Cpl. “Lofty” Large of the Jebel Akhdar campaign in Oman, 1959:

“I remember having two 3.5 rockets, four 90 (Energa) grenades ... Eight No 36 grenades, six No 80 (white phosphorous) grenades. Five 20-round magazines of rifle ammunition, plus 100 rounds in bandoliers. One 250-round box of .30 calibre machine-gun ammunition ... My bergen rucksack, loaded and ready to go, weighed 98lb. My belt weighed 22 lb. – 120 lb total [without] my rifle. Everyone had similar loads to carry.”

Lofty Large, One Man’s SAS, pp.66-67

How much different would be the load of today’s dismounted Canadian infantryman?

Discounting the usual “camping” gear and other superfluous articles we now force ourselves to carry, most of which will no doubt be discarded in preference for more ammo when the “real thing” intrudes on our peacetime reverie, we infantrymen are still looking at hefting a considerable load. In addition to flak jackets, webbing, personal weapons, grenades and ammunition, who is supposed to carry ammo for the crew served weapons?

Rifle company troops of course.

This means that Officer and NCM packing 5.56mm bandoliers and link for use in the platoon, as well as 7.62mm link, 60mm and 81mm mortar ammo for use by our support weapons during the attack/ ambush/ advance to contact etc. In addition, now that we have adopted the new Eryx anti-tank weapon, ammunition for this beastie as well as the weapon system itself, will have to be manpacked as required within the rifle company. It seems reasonable to assume that the requirement to manpack loads weighing up to 100 pounds will not be out of the question for our dismounted infantry, now and into the future.

The consequences of inadequate preparation for dismounted warfare are obviously serious. For example, in contrast to the epic physical performances of Parachute Regiment battalions and Royal Marines Commando units in the Falklands War, soldiers of 5 Infantry Bde – taken from a mechanized role – were not nearly as physically or mentally prepared for the realities of dismounted infantry warfare:

“On the afternoon of 3 June [1982], the Welsh Guards began an attempt to march to Goose Green. They walked for twelve hours before 5 Brigade agreed with their CO that the exercise should be abandoned ... however enthusiastic and efficient their officers and men, they could scarcely be as mentally and physically attuned to a campaign in the Falklands as 3 Commando Brigade. They were trained to fight from armoured personnel carriers. “We are not bergen soldiers”, as one of their officers said.”

Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins, The Battle for the Falklands, pp.269

As countless infanteers before us have discovered to their disappointment, helicopters and vehicles will not always be available – or able – to carry us to the Assembly Area. So what then should we do? It may be instructive to look at the physical training programs of two infantry based formations renowned for their fitness standards – The Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines – to gain some insight into what our own infantry battle fitness standards should be.


British Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines

These two British infantry organizations are well noted for their high standards of physical fitness. As proven in the Falklands conflict of 1982, and well documented since then, physical toughness and associated mental stamina were key battle winning elements for the British Infantry in that campaign. It is instructive to review their selection systems in comparison to our own:

The Parachute Regiment

The Parachute Regiment recruits its soldiers directly from “civvy street” via army recruiting depots. The training regimen for Parachute Regiment soldiers consists of what at first glance seems a fairly typical 24 week syllabus for infantry recruits. The major difference, however, is not only the 4 week parachute training course at RAF Brize Norton, comprising weeks 13 to 17, but the physically and mentally demanding Pre-Parachute Selection Course (PPS, or “P” Company) tests which occur throughout Week 12. This selection process is designed to weed out those unlikely to succeed in the British Airborne Forces.

Consequently, in addition to the usual types of training delivered in the first three months of any infantryman’s career, the Parachute Regiment recruit is also subjected to a progressively more challenging battle fitness training program preparing them for success at “P” Company. The “All Arms” version of the course – a three week condensed version of the recruit’s experience – is attended by prospective Parachute Regiment officers immediately following their graduation from the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, as well as all other personnel hoping to serve in the UK’s 5 Airborne Brigade. All candidates must pass “P” Company prior to joining either the Parachute Regiment or Airborne Forces. In recognition of their leadership role, Officers are expected to perform to higher standards than other ranks, and are graded against those standards.

Standards are maintained by the “P” Company staff, a permanently established training team based at the Depot the Parachute Regiment and Airborne Forces. “P” Company staff accompany candidates throughout the course - setting the example by carrying the same if not more weight in their equipment - and constantly review candidate performance based on established standards. “P” Company staff are commanded by a Parachute Regiment Major, and include Physical Training Instructors (PTIs) from the Army Physical Training Corps (APTC) as well as Senior NCOs from the Parachute Regiment and other 5 Airborne Brigade formations.

In the mid-1980s, the “P” Company selection process was as described below:

Pre-Parachute Selection (“P” Coy) – 4 Weeks

2 Week Preparation:

Most candidates prepare intensively for P Coy prior to arrival at Depot PARA either individually, or with one of the Airborne Brigade units who runs specific preparation courses. Prior to test week, P Coy staff run candidates through an intensive preparation period including circuit training and other gym work, running, and progressively longer marches with weights up to 35 lbs and rifle. Following the 2 week “beat up”, candidates move to Test Week as follows:

P Coy Test Week:

Phase Activities Dress/ Equipment Standards
Friday, Day 1 2 mile cross country steeplechase boots, trousers, PT vest under 18 min,
Log Race boots, trousers, PT vest, helmet 8 man teams per 130-140 lb log, 1.5 miles across steep terrain, best effort
Pairs “milling” PT strip, 16oz boxing gloves One minute controlled aggression
Weekend Rest
Monday, Day 2 10 mile battle march 35 lb pack, belt order, rifle Cross country in steep terrain, 1 hr 45 min, finish with the PTI and lead group
Trainasium, High level confidence course (40-50 ft) Boots, PT Vest, helmet Successfully negotiate all obstacles without hesitation
Assault Course Boots, PT Vest 3 times around in under 18 minutes
Travel to Wales for Days 3, 4 and 5
Tuesday, Day 3 18 mile approach march through mountainous terrain 35-40 lb pack, belt order, rifle 4 km/hr, finish with the PTI and lead group
Wednesday, Day 4 Pen Y Fan: Approx 2,900 ft ascent & descent, 7 miles 35-40 lb pack, belt order, rifle 4km/ hr, finish with the PTI and lead group
Fan Fawr: Approx 2,400 ft ascent & descent, 5 miles 35-40 lb pack, belt order, rifle 4km/ hr, finish with the PTI and lead group
6 mile speed march 35-40 lb pack, belt order, rifle 1 hr 10 min, finish with the PTI and lead group
Thursday, Day 5 Stretcher race Belt order, rifle, helmet 180 lb stretcher, 10-12 man teams, 7.5 miles walk and run (Approx 4 km/hr)


Royal Marines Commando Course – 8 weeks

Like 5 AB Bde, the Royal Marines recruit both directly from civvy street, as well as running Commando training qualifying Army personnel for service with Brigade support units (e.g. logistics, engineers and artillery). Commando training is supervised by the Training Team at CTCRM Lympstone. Like “P” Company, Training Team staff include physical training instructors, and all staff participate in all selection tests undertaken by course candidates. In contrast to the Paras’ fondness for Wales, the Royal Marines prefer to use the nearby Dartmoor mountain training area in south west England for their longer exercises and marches. In the mid-1980s, the Royal Marines Commando course consisted of the following major components:

Phase 1: Pre-All Arms Commando Course: 2 weeks

Passing In Standards:

• Boots, denims, combat shirt, 50 sit ups in 2 minutes, 5 chin ups,
• 1.5 miles in 15 minutes group run followed by same route individual best effort in under 11.5 minutes
• Basic swim test jump from high board in combats and runners & tread water for 2 minutes
• Combat Fitness Test: 8 mile march/run cross country 22 lbs webbing, rifle, helmet, in 150 minutes
• Jump 5 foot gap, climb into truck
• 100 m fireman’s carry in less than 45 sec


Other Requirements:

• 4 mile speed march cross country 22 lbs & rifle under 40 minutes.
• 30 ft rope climb 22 lbs webbing and rifle
• Assault course in under 5 mins
• 200 m fireman’s carry under 90 sec
• Full rope regain
• Basic fieldcraft, weapons, navigation, tactics, two field exercises including progressively longer marches with full equipment (up to 60 lbs or more)


Following successful completion of Phase 1, course candidates complete the final phase of the course as follows:

Phase 2: Commando Course: 4 weeks

• 12 mile load carry cross country, 60 lbs, under 4 hrs
• 4 mile cross country endurance course (including water and other obstacles) in under 72 mins carrying 22 lbs webbing and rifle, with a 10 round 100m shoot at the end
• 9 mile speed march under 90 mins carrying 22 lbs webbing and rifle
• "Tarzan" assault course (1 mile) in under 13 mins carrying 22 lbs webbing and rifle
• 30 mile Dartmoor march in under 8 hrs carrying 22 lbs webbing, 30 lb pack and rifle
• Final exercise Dartmoor, company level dismounted ops, 15-20 km marches, Company sized raiding operations.


In these two examples, it is clear that the key components of a proven, battle winning infantry fitness training program includes:

• A clearly defined, widely communicated, battle proven physical fitness standard
• A progressive training program culminating in travelling long distances over mountainous terrain carrying heavy loads of weapons and equipment
• A combination of “garrison” and “field based” physical preparation and selection tests, and
• High levels of participation and leadership from a highly qualified training team staff specifically accountable for course delivery standards and outcomes.


In summary, although it is highly likely that our infantry must be physically fit enough to dismount and fight on foot during any kind of operational deployment, Canada’s infantry battle fitness standards are currently ill defined. History continues to prove that to fight and win a dismounted battle, the infantryman must be physically and mentally prepared to carry the weapons, equipment and – above all – the ammunition required to successfully close with and destroy the enemy, regardless of the terrain, weather conditions and levels of personal fatigue. It is also reasonable to expect that the combat load of the individual dismounted infantryman will continue to top 100 pounds on occasion, especially for those who man support weapons. Those who insist that the load of the infantryman can be kept at a maximum of “1/3 of body weight”, and that “first line” ammo scales will be limited to a few magazines and grenades, are ignoring history and the physical realities of dismounted infantry warfare. While it is imperative for both leaders and the led to continue to examine ways to reduce the weight carried by the infantryman, we must also face reality, and continue to seek ways to improve our physical standards while refusing to condone physical mediocrity at all levels in the infantry.

To guide us in the improvement of our fitness standards, we have access to several examples of high quality, battle tested, infantry fitness preparation programs – of which those of the British Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines are only two. Through such analysis, we have the opportunity to benefit from lessons learned the hard way by other infantry organizations around the world and, once and for all, establish a challenging, consistently applied, “Canadianized” battle fitness training program for our infantry. Given today’s tumultuous world political environment, we must be ready for anything. Consequently, an acceptance of anything less than “world class” levels of infantry battle fitness could prove disastrous to our soldiers, our country and our allies.

Today, we have good reason to heed that oft-quoted maxim: “Train hard, fight easy”.

Major Richard H. Eaton is currently serving with the Canadian Scottish Regiment based in Victoria BC. His military background includes RESO training, parachute training at the CABC, eight years service as an officer with the British Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines, and five years service as a rifle company commander with the militia in BC. His 20-year part – and full-time military career has taken him to far-flung posts such as Northern Ireland, Norway, Oman, Hawaii and Resolute Bay. In civilian life, he is a founding partner in the Victoria-based management consulting firm, Berlin Eaton and Associates Ltd., specializing in organizational performance improvement.

[Mike]

Is the Royal Marines commando course 32 weeks? The posting above mentioned 4 weeks. Major Eaton spend also 8 years as an exchange officer? Usually, U.S. Army officers spend 2 years, even 1 year.

[recce_o]

Maj Eaton must be a British citizen who served in the British Army before immigrating to Canada and being commissioned here as an officer.

Although there is a British exchange officer slot in Gagetown. I think he's the OC for RESO. I believe they operate on a three year rotation.

[baboon]

32 weeks refers to the initial training for RM recruits, which includes all the Commando tests. 4 weeks refers to the All Arms Commando Course, which must be passed by members of the army and navy wishing to be attached to 3 Commando Brigade.( gunners, sappers, medics, mechanics, etc.) RM officers also do the Commando tests as part of their 15 month initial training

[Enfield]

What those two articles are saying is very true - the physical standards are getting lower and lower. It's terrible. Last year a soldier died on a march, so this year the physical training was cut back even more. The instructors don't even pretend the phsyical standards are hard anymore, and even the recruits don't like it. SOmetimes the intrsuctors sneek their troops off and run them a bit harder than they're supposed to, where the senior officers can't see. There used to be a weapons, fitness and infantry skills test, but that was stopped because the scores were so low.
I can't see the CF making a course like the COmmando Course - it costs too much, and is far to warlike for the CF's image. But just raising the fitness levels would be good enough.

Enfield

Enfield

[TonyM]

The fitness training on the recruit courses are at an all time low. Our SNCO's that went as DS last summer told tales of not being allowed to make troops do more than 10 pushups (and NEVER for punishment), 15 situps and most couldn't do 3 chin-ups. Makes you want to cry.

[Enfield]

Right now, in the Reserves at least, instructors aren't supposed to give push-ups as punishment, and they aren't allowed to exceed the pre-set (and very low) physical training schedule. The recruits want the training to be harder (they complain as much as the instructors do), but the Army just isn't coming through.

[Mike]

to TonyM and Enfield, what if your SNCOs and Instructors just go ahead and ordered recruits to do push-ups? Who will stop them? Who will protect those SNCOs and instructors when they stand up for what they think is right? What is the point of not being allowed of giving up punishments if your infantry OC are doing nothing or are they enforcing?

[TonyM]

Mike-
I'm not sure I understand your question. Depending on the instructor, he can find a way to issue "remedial training" PT (like doing pushups or chinups) as long as he does them with you. This is a good news/bad news scenario depending on the condition of your instructor. I had one Mcpl who was a killer for making us do pushups while he sent the wasters back into the shacks to collect their forgotton items, close windows, lockers ,etc. I took it as a challenge, but little did I know he was training for JTF selection so he was happy to do them with us. He could out-PT everyone, so we learnt to "tighten up" prety damn fast. Another of the DS was a heavy smoker and not in top form, so people could get away with a lot. To my knowledge only one guy formally complained and that was after he was RTU'd. Even still the DS were chewed out for it.

[Cree Warrior]

I just say the draft of the new PT standard for Infantry. It consists of the following (if my memory serves me;
1) 13K Ruck w/ 25 Kgs
2) 100m firemans carry (person of equal weight)
3) lifting 20kg ammo box 1.3meter high (certain number of times in certain time)
4) shovelling .453 sq meter of gravel into another area (box to box)

?????
You got me.
I dont know why they just dont use the Coopers test
Pull ups
Push ups
sit up
1.5 mile run
Bench press

Sua Sponte

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

bumping thread worth reading again

[rw4th]

I dont know why they just dont use the Coopers test It's probably because they want to make the test more functional. A 5'4" 110lb woman could get a good score on the cooper's test, but fail miserably as an infantryman.

[UberCree]

What the hell ever happened to TonyM and RecceO anyway?

King too, even though that fucker was from The Pas, he seemed like an okay dog.


Damn RHF, you must have had a boring weekend!

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

I have no life, so I read the old posts.

I'm waiting for a frigging tasking.

Looks like I'd be sitting with a thumb up my ass for next month.

[Marauder]

Speaking of people who aren't in formation, anyone know where Enfield and Disturbance have been? Still chasing tail in Bulgaria or what?

RHF, if you're still parading, could you say hi to Mitchell, Perry, O'Brien, and especially Frasier, from Watson? And tell Perry congrats on his wings. Danke. Tell those buggers to log on here, too. :)

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Fraser is currently in Scotland doing an exchange. How he pulled that off, God knows.

I don't know who O'Brien is, but Perry and Mitchell parades with Cambridge shitpumps. I'll say hi for you next time I go down there.

[Infanteer]

Enfield should currently be lost somewhere in Asia and Disturbance is back in Van chasing tail with his hard earned money.

[TonyM]

I still pop in the odd time. Life's pretty busy lately but I took some time and put together a couple of trips down south with some guys (Rev B who just got back and others you guys may know) to do some real shooting. Re-qual'd on the pistols, shot the Steyr and M21. Did the NMC and USMC course with the M14 and something they called the Canadian Combat Rifle. Kinda like the PWT3 "lite". What a blast running down with that piece of iron and doing the standing snaps. One string was shot slow fire from the 500 and Rev B got 5 X's in a row. And that was after a little drinking the night before. The way I shot, I should've drank more I guess. I'm gonna grab one of those Norinco M14 copies going around to shoot in the service rifle comps here. My unit's still not very happy I go off on sidetrips like that, but that's life.
Doing some of the PLQ Mods, the program is still very experimental and it shows. Hopefully they can get it working soon. Good concept but the way it's been put together really shows how badly we need better people at the higher end.

[King]

I'm still lurking around too. I found my way over to the 75th board and started reading the hilarious shit on there, forgot how good these boards are. I tried posting about a month ago after not comming around here for a long time. I guess my account was diactivated because it wouldn't let me post. I figured since UberCree was making requests I'd get around to e-mailing the moderator and getting my account back.

Now I just need a cool avatar.

[UberCree]

WHat the hell are you doing out there?

You are NOT missing much up in this neck of the woods, thats for sure. Blizzard lost to SJHL team this year so all the pucks are upset, haha. I could care less really.
Did you catch the program on T.P./OCN on CBC Sportsjournal?

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Just curious UberCree, but what are you doing up in Manitoba anyways?

[UberCree]

Originally posted by Royal Highland Fusilier
Just curious UberCree, but what are you doing up in Manitoba anyways?

Living...barely.

It's from where I come bud. My 'family' has roots here that go back over 3,000 years. Hard to leave that kinda history.

[King]

I've been living here for almost 2 years, going to school (Ottawa U).

I haven't heard anything about the Blizzard. I like hockey and I went to a few of their games but I never really got into it. Never saw the thing on Sprotsjournal.

It's been almost a year since I've been to The Pas. Might get back over the next few weeks depending on whether or not my piece of shit car passes some Ontario roadway inspection.

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

^^LOL. Counting trees or something, UC? ;)

Are you with a unit right now? Heck, are there units that far middle of nowhere? ;)

[UberCree]

I will be a civilian shortly. Long story... Biker B. can tell you all about it.

[garett]

Proposition your CO..............done and done........and I mean done

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Hmmm... that's no god, UC. We always can use more guys like you in this chickenshit outfit.

[TonyM]

UC is getting out? Please tell us you're heading south back to the Rangers or such.
But if you're pulling the pin because the CF has manged to crush your enthusism, faith, trust in leadership, originality, unconventionalism, etc...join the club. I've seen a lot of guys leave lately. Our unit has been decimated.
I'm just hanging in by a thread myself. Keep hoping things will get better.

[garett]

In all likelihood I'll be pulling the plug between September and May. I did Phase 2 in 2001 and was sick for a month and a half last summer (having tubes shoved up your ass aint fun) so I couldn't do Phase 3. We had three troops go through the new reserve officer training course last summer so in September we had 3 new platoon commanders with only two rifle platoons in the Coy. This summer I'll be on course with 2 other guys, if we all pass then there will be 7 platoon commanders in the Coy in September, with 3 platoons that need commanding. Out of the 7 of us I'm senior to 5 due to time in rank and the courses I've done. All I've done for the past two years is shit jobs like cleaning the platoon commander's office and sit on a bench every Thursday night. Basically if I show up in September and they don't give me a platoon then I'm getting the hell out.

[UberCree]

Originally posted by TonyM
UC is getting out? Please tell us you're heading south back to the Rangers or such.
But if you're pulling the pin because the CF has manged to crush your enthusism, faith, trust in leadership, originality, unconventionalism, etc...join the club. I've seen a lot of guys leave lately. Our unit has been decimated.
I'm just hanging in by a thread myself. Keep hoping things will get better.


Not heading south, tried that already and the citisenship thing aint working out for me.

Basically, as an officer in the reserves you have ZERO job opportunities outside of playing shoot em up on the weekends. Reserve officers are not regular army qualified...and they REFUSE to send reserve officers on regular army courses. All we are good for is CIMIC officers...at best.

It's only getting worse.

[rw4th]

You guys ever thought of just resigning your commissions? You’d become MCpl/SGTs and probably get more out of the whole thing. It’s not the best thing for your "career", and you’d probably have to move to a different unit, but I know a guy who did it a few years ago and he was much happier afterwards.

That or you can just go regs. I remember a post on here about the CF putting together an “elite” light infantry unit. I have it from good source that this has started, with elements of each of the light battalions doing intensive FIBUA training. Might be a good time to go reg force.

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

I thought you can't resign your commission to be a non commissioned.

[garett]

Last Thursday a friend of mine went from 2Lt. back down to Cpl. They wouldn't make him a MCpl. and I get the feeling that some Junior Officers are going to fuck him over at every chance. My unit is the only Infantry unit in the area so theres no way I'd become a Cpl. again with them. They'd create and assign me to parking lot sentry. If I get out next year then get back in a few years later when I have a real job I'd rather get back in as a troop. Platoon Commander is a good job and all but it looks like its going to take a couple of years for me to get a platoon and I'd probably only have it for a year. After that I'd be pushing paper for the rest of my career. I finish my degree in December, I just don't have the time to sit on the bench for another year.

[TonyM]

OK, I'm hearing you guys. Same shit going on here. We've had a guy try getting back in as a troop for over 30 months (on the LFRR look up "C. Park"). He used to be the Platoon commander but didn't want to come back as an officer for all the reasons I'm seeing here. Just wanted to be a troop. Guess that kind of thing dosen't sit well in the CF. Talk about the run around! He can write a pam on how many ways you can get screwed by the system. He finally gave in and agreed to rejoin as an officer, now suddenly he's back in. Not very happy, but it's all they'll give him.

I've decided that I'm going to coast for a bit, see how things go. I don't put my name in for the exercises or anything beyond a local weekend anymore. It's just not worth the professional or personal hassle, I don't get anything out of it because 90% of the guys are new so now it's always "back to basics" , "we gotta learn to walk before we run", etc. I'm sure you guys have heard them all. I just can't validate taking the time off work to go do section attacks for a week. I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes. There seems to be no "progression" to the "training". Just an endless loop. I liken it to the movie Groundhog Day.
I have a much better time doing my own thing now, love going south and shooting with the yanks. And you know this last trip I never once heard the phrase "..but what if something happens.." in fact we were making jokes out it.

"Hey Master Sgt, can I shoot that folding FN Para or that Steyr on the next relay?"

"Sure.....oh wait, you're a Canuck. WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS! Ha, ha,ha,ha,..."

[UberCree]

Well that's exactly what I'm doing (comming back as an NCM)...IF I can get back in...if I can't fuck it...they obviously don't need me. I know I am a good officer and a good troop too. I'd put myself up against ANY phase trained officer.

TonyM, can you PM me that guys email addy?

I tried doing it in the system, I even did a Ministerial Inquiry, but it was a NO GO. Some people said it couldn't be done, others said it could but they didnt know how, others said it could be done but they didnt want to make the call (typical). So the most expiditious way to do it is to get out then come back in...we'll see.

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Just curious. What would be considered 'advanced' training to 'basics'?

[TonyM]

I talked to some Sgts and this is how they broke it down for me, and I pretty much agree:

"Basic" skills (Shoot, Move & Communicate)
-Section attacks & battle drills
-Comms & voice procedure
-Firing PWTs

"Intermediate" skills (The Art of Killing )
-Support weapons application
-Ambush
-Raids
-Cold weather/Jungle/Desert
-Live fire/Jungle lanes/Kill house type applications
-FIBUA/MOUT/CQB or whatever it's called today

"Advanced" skills (Polishing the Diamonds)
-Recce
-Amphibious
-Airborne/Airmoble
-Mountain
-Survival
-Sniping

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Hmmm... By the standard above, if your unit spent lots of time doing the 'basics', something went wrong.

Past training year my unit did a lot of the 'intermediate' stuff. Coy attacks and defence (though we had only two platoons), raids, some Fibua, fighting patrols (one during a Meaford blizzard. that was fun) plus defensive stuff during brigade ex.

Prep training and the 'basics' were done mostly on weeknight training days.

The noobs like myself didn't have any problem adjusting to the training, if it was explained well enough, lol.

[ParkC]

It always struck me as odd that troops would return from summer course each September to spend two or more weeks doing the weapons handling skills they were supposed to have been taught during the summer. I'd love to see a unit demand the course fee back after recieving back some 'graduates' who didn't have the required skills. Bottom line of the argument: A promised product not delivered. Breach of contract? That might be okay when selling the army Griffons, but we should draw the line before doing that to ourselves with actual troops.

BTW, regarding decommissioning: The actual time required by the bureaucracy to make a decision is 2 yrs, 49 wks. The msg looked something like this:

1. REF DECOMMISSIONING:

2. NO.