POTUS Obama's Health Care 'Horror Story' Inaccurate

[Looon]

WASHINGTON -- One of President Barack Obama's health care "horror stories" is about a woman who, he says, lost her health insurance on the verge of breast cancer surgery because she didn't disclose a case of acne to the insurer. That's not what happened.


Robin Lynn Beaton, 59, of Waxahachie, Texas, indeed had her insurance suspended and then terminated when she needed it the most. Hers is a cautionary tale about how an insurance company can act in a seemingly arbitrary manner to revoke coverage for lifesaving treatment.
But not for the reasons Obama cites.


She "was about to get a double mastectomy when her insurance company canceled her policy because she forgot to declare a case of acne," he said in one telling.


Beaton did not lose her insurance because she failed to own up to a skin problem in her past. She lost it because, when enrolling in the plan, she had not reported a previous heart condition and did not list her weight accurately.


Obama tells stories of real-life hardships repeatedly, in his speech to a joint session of Congress, in interviews and at his citizen meetings across the country in support of his campaign to rework medical insurance. Beaton's case is just one cited by Obama that mixes fact with fiction.


In reflexively blaming insurance companies, Obama is playing into fears that have become a frightening reality for many Americans. Health insurance under the current system is not always the rock-solid guarantee you think you're paying for.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/29/obamas-health-care-horror-story-inaccurate/

[Looon]

Inaccurate is a fucking understatement. "You lie!" is what is more and more "accurate".

Purposely altering the facts to back up your agenda is lying plain and simple.

Hope and change baby...............

[MDH]

Reminds me of the time that Clinton brings out this woman with “a personal story” to bolster his anti-gun legislation. Latter cops show up, seems that they has an outstanding arrest warrant for her.

[Longrifle]

The more I learn about this administration, the more convinced I become that there are no gray areas between right and wrong, and that we should be called by what we are - right wing or wrong wing, not right or left.

PS - The vast majority of arrest warrants are outstanding, some more outstanding than others.:biggrin:

[The Fat Guy]

I have said it before and will say it again, The POTUS us used to having his constituents blinndly believe whatever he says, just because the words come from his lips. Now that he has constituents that actually read and research what he says, it takes the wind out of his sails. Just like AARP support, just like his catepillar claims of saved jobs. The entitlements for vote strategy doesnt work on the well informed.

[MikeC2W]

I agree. The whole fucking speech was a lie, every word out of his mouth is a damn lie.

http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=89567

It's a real shit show.

[hile]

I agree. The whole fucking speech was a lie, every word out of his mouth is a damn lie.

http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=89567

It's a real shit show.

Lies... Damn Lies... Arguably this speech sounds a bit more like Statistics (in the Twain sense.)

[grog18b]

Awwww c'mon... He just "mis-spoke". Everyone in Washington does it these days. Hell it's a trend. Ever listen to Pelosi or Feinstein? They constantly Mis-speak. Hillary did it when she dodged all those sniper bullets, and Bill did it when he got spooge on some chick's dress. "Oops, mis-spoke. No big deal." :rolleyes: Like I said... They will continue to do it, unless we start holding them accountable for their lies. (and the media will continue to cover for them too.)

[MikeC2W]

Liberals seek Health Care Access for Illegals (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/27/liberals-seek-health-care-access-illegals/)

[KidA]

I can't get too worked up about it. I mean the Insurance company cancelled the coverage when the woman was about to have her tits removed due to fucking CANCER. They did this to save some money for their stockholders and CEOs.

Seriously, there's got to be some other shit that can be used cause you aren't going to find too many people getting riled up because the insurer let some woman's tits get eat up by cancer cells.

[sfmedicw9]

Washington DC is inaccurate

[Bravo Five Romeo]

WASHINGTON -- One of President Barack Obama's health care "horror stories" is about a woman who, he says, lost her health insurance on the verge of breast cancer surgery because she didn't disclose a case of acne to the insurer. That's not what happened.


Robin Lynn Beaton, 59, of Waxahachie, Texas, indeed had her insurance suspended and then terminated when she needed it the most. Hers is a cautionary tale about how an insurance company can act in a seemingly arbitrary manner to revoke coverage for lifesaving treatment.
But not for the reasons Obama cites.


She "was about to get a double mastectomy when her insurance company canceled her policy because she forgot to declare a case of acne," he said in one telling.


Beaton did not lose her insurance because she failed to own up to a skin problem in her past. She lost it because, when enrolling in the plan, she had not reported a previous heart condition and did not list her weight accurately.


Obama tells stories of real-life hardships repeatedly, in his speech to a joint session of Congress, in interviews and at his citizen meetings across the country in support of his campaign to rework medical insurance. Beaton's case is just one cited by Obama that mixes fact with fiction.


In reflexively blaming insurance companies, Obama is playing into fears that have become a frightening reality for many Americans. Health insurance under the current system is not always the rock-solid guarantee you think you're paying for.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/29/obamas-health-care-horror-story-inaccurate/

You forgot to post the rest of the article, inclluding this passage
She says she thought nothing of a fast-heartbeat episode that had prompted an earlier doctor's visit, and the resulting heart medication she stopped taking two years ago, and did not report that on the enrollment form.

The form asks applicants to list heart conditions and a wide variety of other conditions experienced in the past 10 years, any physician consultations in the last five years, any medication taken in the last year, and more.

Also, Beaton said in an interview, "I wrote down like five pounds less than I weighed," joking that's the sort of mild rounding down that many women do. She is not obese.

In the spring of 2008, Beaton visited a dermatologist. "My face began to break out," she said. "All it was, truly, honestly, was pimples."

The doctor diagnosed mild rosacea, sometimes called adult acne, and seborrheic keratosis, a benign and common skin growth.

Beaton says the visit nevertheless raised a red flag because a notation in her records was misconstrued as meaning precancerous.

Beaton says she's convinced "the acne is what started everything," meaning the insurance company scrutiny. Because she'd had her insurance for months, the acne was not a pre-existing condition that could have imperiled her policy.

Whatever the case, her breast cancer diagnosis that quickly followed surely would have prompted a similar review of her files.

On the Friday before her cancer surgery, she was told her insurance company was opening the investigation and would not pay for her operation before that was concluded, she said. That suspended the surgery.

"They searched high and low for a reason to cancel me," she said.

The insurer retrieved records from a cardiologist pointing to her unreported heart condition. Then, in an Aug. 22, 2008, letter, the company listed four questions it said she answered inaccurately on her form and a fifth that was insufficiently addressed.

As a result, wrote the insurer, "your coverage is rescinded as of 12/04/07, the original effective date of your policy."More interesting however is this article (http://www.star-telegram.com/health/story/1645319.html) telling her side.Despite questions being raised about her battle over health insurance, Robin Lynn Beaton is sticking by her assertion that she lost her health insurance because of acne because that is the condition that initially flagged her medical chart for review by her insurance provider.

True, that review later showed she had a heart condition that she hasn’t reported (because she said she no longer had the condition) and indicated she wrote down the wrong weight, about five pounds lighter than she truly was.

But she said that review was triggered because during a 2008 trip to a dermatologist, for acne, that medical personnel wrote a word on her medical chart that could indicate she was precancerous.

"I lost my insurance because of the acne," said Beaton, whose case has been chronicled repeatedly in the Star-Telegram. "If it hadn’t been for the acne, they wouldn’t have red-flagged the case. And I would have had the surgery as planned.

"The acne is what started the ball rolling," she said. "That is exactly what happened."

Beaton has testified before members of Congress and given many interviews to publications nationwide about her situation.

She said she feels terrible that some news reports are suggesting that President Barack Obama, who publicly spoke about her case, has misstated why she lost her health insurance before her scheduled mastectomy.

"They are trying to discredit the president of the United States," she said. "That’s really rotten . . . He hasn’t tried to do anything but help people like me."
More importantly, where did President Obama get his facts?

Republican Congressman Joe Barton (who helped her get her insurance back) brought her to testify in Congress on June 11th, 2009.

This is a pdf transcript of her testimony to Congress (http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090616/testimony_beaton.pdf) wherein she clearly blames her insurance being cancelled as a result of her visit to the dermatologist.

So President Obama repeated her story... her testimony to Congress brought in by a Republican Congressman.

[dripping sarcasm]
Shame on President Obama for trusting the sworn testimony of a cancer victim and a Republican Congressman from Texas.
[/dripping sarcasm]

Imagine if you called every President a liar who repeated inaccurate information in good faith.

by the way... kudos to Republican Joe Barton for helping her out.
It's good to see a congressman actually help someone every now and then.

[Dark Helmet]

I mean the Insurance company cancelled the coverage when the woman was about to have her tits removed due to fucking CANCER. They did this to save some money for their stockholders and CEOs.

It's a business. Don't forget it is a BUSINESS.

It's not a right, it's a for-proft business. That's WHY the qulity of healthcare in this country is so high; it's a free market economy in which the BUSINESS of healthcare has thrived.

When she withheld the heart condition, she falsified a document which is a legal representation of her as an underwriting risk, on which a BUSINESS decision is made as to whether to insure her, and if so, for how much. She committed FRAUD when she omitted a very important piece of information.

Don't you get it?

She is a liar, has committed fraud, and has breached the contract she entered into with her insurer.

Why should they pay for her procedure?

Seriously - what obligation do they have to her? If she held up her end of the contract, then sure...they would owe her the procedures to the extent of her policy coverage.

But she didn't...she falsfied documents, and LIED to the very company you are waving your finger at!

If you take out a mortgage and cannot make the payments, should you be allowed to live in the house? If the answert is yes, then whom would you suggest pay your mortgage for you?

I mean, WTF?

To quote Dennis Miller:

This is America. I don't owe you a damned thing other than my indifference.

[Looon]

You forgot to post the rest of the article, inclluding this passage
I didn't forget to post anything. That's what the link is for.:rolleyes:

The point is that the POTUS once again didn't have all of the facts before he opened his fricken yap..........or he blatantly misstated the facts to try and further his agenda.

Just like when the POTUS accused pediatricians in a blanket statement of pulling children's tonsiles simply because they were guaranteed more money than if they were just to treat the symptoms.

PUUUUUUULEASE...........

[MDH]

Having someone else pay for your medical problems is not a guaranteed RIGHT in this country…..

[rgrjoe175]

I mean, WTF?


Exactly and the only thing that I have to add is that insurance fraud is another reason for higher costs for all the other plan participants....

[SdAufKla]

Her crying that her coverage was dropped for acne is like some guy crying that he's in jail because of a broken tail light. "The cops would've never knowed I robbed that bank if they didn't stop me for a busted tail light!"

I bet she's more than 5 lbs heavier than she wrote on that app, too...

[Hostile0311]

So, are our lives business deals gone sour when we are stricken with a life threatening illness? I don't advocate the new policy of a socialist healthcare policy because I now live in a country where it is implemented (Malta). It works for some things but not for others. Case in point, my 2 childrens births were free. OTH, my sis in law needs a hysterectomy...has to wait a year and a half. So no, I don' agree with the socialist system. I also don't agree with the insurance companies in these matters. These clowns turn a hefty profit...but when it comes time to pay up, they investigate every possible angle in order not to pay up. To me, there is something a bit wrong with that. I'm for everyone making a buck...just not at mine or a loved ones expense. There has to be some sort of middle ground.
It's a business. Don't forget it is a BUSINESS.

It's not a right, it's a for-proft business. That's WHY the qulity of healthcare in this country is so high; it's a free market economy in which the BUSINESS of healthcare has thrived.

When she withheld the heart condition, she falsified a document which is a legal representation of her as an underwriting risk, on which a BUSINESS decision is made as to whether to insure her, and if so, for how much. She committed FRAUD when she omitted a very important piece of information.

Don't you get it?

She is a liar, has committed fraud, and has breached the contract she entered into with her insurer.

Why should they pay for her procedure?

Seriously - what obligation do they have to her? If she held up her end of the contract, then sure...they would owe her the procedures to the extent of her policy coverage.

But she didn't...she falsfied documents, and LIED to the very company you are waving your finger at!

If you take out a mortgage and cannot make the payments, should you be allowed to live in the house? If the answert is yes, then whom would you suggest pay your mortgage for you?

I mean, WTF?

To quote Dennis Miller:

This is America. I don't owe you a damned thing other than my indifference.

[Dark Helmet]

So, are our lives business deals gone sour when we are stricken with a life threatening illness?


In a true, 100% pure market-driven economy, the only thing that is NOT a "business deal" is church....so the answer is basically "yes", as callous as that may sound.

If it doesn't work and you do not have insurance, that's what Medicaid is for.

[TJ2JM1783]

The insurer retrieved records from a cardiologist pointing to her unreported heart condition. Then, in an Aug. 22, 2008, letter, the company listed four questions it said she answered inaccurately on her form and a fifth that was insufficiently addressed.

If the insurer was able to "retrieve" records from the cardiologist, then perhaps their underwriting due diligence at the conception of the insurance policy was faulty (notwithstanding HIPAA)? Then, who violated the contract first?

IMO pre-existing conditions should never be an allowable basis for denial of coverage. I would have no problem with an increase in the premium costs for such a circumstance. But denial. No.

From my point of view, the insurance company was looking for a way out based on a condition that could or could not be "precancerous", and thus damaging to their profit margin.

Call me naive, but I do not think (in this case) her intent was to deceive the insurer about her health and make it possible to get insurance, and/or at a "reasonable" rate. She should have stated it, no doubt, but of the 85% of the population who is insured in this country, how many truly remember or know their full medical histories - vaccinations, allergies, etc.. Intent to commit fraud? And, don't some states not allow underwriting? Increase the premium costs but do not deny coverage. She is not claiming conditions she does not have and therefore personally profiting, etc.. I do not call getting medical treatment for a condition she does have and for which she was personally paying insurance, "profiting". It is not a bogus claim.

When you have CEOs from Cigna ($7.7 Mil yearly pay), Aetna ($3.04 Mil), United Health ($3.12 Mil), Merck ($4.03 Mil), Pfizer ($4.58 Mil), Johnson & Johnson ($10.76 Mil), Bristol Myers Squibb ($5.96 Mil), CVS ($5.97 Mil) and Eli Lilly ($4.05 Mil) in the healthcare industry receiving such high compensations compared to their counterparts in business such as Procter & Gamble ($2.19 Mil), GE (top 3 executives yearly compensation is $3.30 Mil, 7.48 Mil, and 6.61 Mil respectively - not including options), Apple (NA?;)), Sprint Nextel ($3.85 Mil), Kimberly Clark ($2.17 Mil), Bank of America ($1.5 Mil), Colgate (NA), Chevron ($4.8 Mil - $21 Mil in options), ConocoPhillips ($2.92 Mil - lots in options), etc., I reach the conclusion that they are exceptionally greedy especially given the nature of their business.

Many Americans, if not most, right or wrong, see healthcare insurance (and all the related industries) as a different type of business. Denial of payment for treatment(s) for precancerous or cancerous conditions has irreparable consequences. From a pure business standpoint I see that it should not be differentiated, but it is IMO.

[Wootnik]

If the insurer was able to "retrieve" records from the cardiologist, then perhaps their underwriting due diligence at the conception of the insurance policy was faulty (notwithstanding HIPAA)? Then, who violated the contract first?

IMO pre-existing conditions should never be an allowable basis for denial of coverage. I would have no problem with an increase in the premium costs for such a circumstance. But denial. No.



I think auto insurance companies should cover wrecks that happened before I was covered under them. Would be nice to have something happen and then call up geico and have them cover me. Yes I am being sarcastic

[MDH]

If any individual can buy health insurance at any time, why would anyone buy health insurance while healthy? Why would I not simply wait until I got sick or injured to buy the insurance? If auto insurance were purchasable once one got into an accident, why would anyone purchase auto insurance before an accident? The whole point of insurance is that the healthy buy it and thereby provide the funds to pay for the sick. Demanding that insurance companies provide insurance to everyone at any time is plain dumb.
Why do supporters of nationalized medicine so often substitute the word "care" for the word "insurance?" it is patently untrue that millions of Americans do not receive health care. Millions of Americans do not have health insurance but virtually every American (and non-American on American soil) receives health care.
20 years ago pharmaceuticals were largely developed in Europe, European price controls made drug development in Europe less than profitable, now it’s an American enterprise. Fifteen of the 20 top-selling drugs worldwide this year were developed in the United States.
Comparing the pay for different CEO’s doesn’t really show much. Remember it’s the Board Of Directors and company shareholder that dictate CEO pay, they pay him what they think he’s worth, which is generally a mere fraction of what he brings to the company. Want to drive down health care, stop demanding that they find a cure for cancer, and AIDS Vaccine, tell them you won’t pay for it. How about TORT reform, do you have a clue what doctors pay for malpractice insurance? You walk into a doctor’s office with a headache; 30 years ago he would have given you an aspirin and told you to call him in the morning. Today…with all the lawsuits, he now has to schedule you for a Neurologist consult and an MRI just to cover his ass.

[John6719]

If any individual can buy health insurance at any time, why would anyone buy health insurance while healthy? Why would I not simply wait until I got sick or injured to buy the insurance? If auto insurance were purchasable once one got into an accident, why would anyone purchase auto insurance before an accident? The whole point of insurance is that the healthy buy it and thereby provide the funds to pay for the sick. Demanding that insurance companies provide insurance to everyone at any time is plain dumb.
Why do supporters of nationalized medicine so often substitute the word "care" for the word "insurance?" it is patently untrue that millions of Americans do not receive health care. Millions of Americans do not have health insurance but virtually every American (and non-American on American soil) receives health care.
20 years ago pharmaceuticals were largely developed in Europe, European price controls made drug development in Europe less than profitable, now it’s an American enterprise. Fifteen of the 20 top-selling drugs worldwide this year were developed in the United States.
Comparing the pay for different CEO’s doesn’t really show much. Remember it’s the Board Of Directors and company shareholder that dictate CEO pay, they pay him what they think he’s worth, which is generally a mere fraction of what he brings to the company. Want to drive down health care, stop demanding that they find a cure for cancer, and AIDS Vaccine, tell them you won’t pay for it. How about TORT reform, do you have a clue what doctors pay for malpractice insurance? You walk into a doctor’s office with a headache; 30 years ago he would have given you an aspirin and told you to call him in the morning. Today…with all the lawsuits, he now has to schedule you for a Neurologist consult and an MRI just to cover his ass.

Steel on target.

[KidA]

I think auto insurance companies should cover wrecks that happened before I was covered under them. Would be nice to have something happen and then call up geico and have them cover me. Yes I am being sarcastic

What does this have to do with the case in question?

The woman had cancer. The insurance company didn't want to pay for it.

This is more like:

You get into an accident and your car is totalled. It's not even your fault but the other dude doesn't have insurance.

Your insurance company looks at your car and realizes that your rear seatbelt doesn't properly function. No one was in the rear seat but that doesn't matter, it should have functioned for you to have insurance.

Instead of fixing your car they cancel your insurance and refuse to pay for breach of contract. AND they keep the money you've paid to them.

[redhawk]

So let me get this straight...
She has breast cancer but she didn't disclose a heart condition and 5 lbs so fuck her, let her die, go capitalism! Sorry Johnny, you didn't disclose the fact that you had anal fissures, so you're brain surgery will not be covered.

Not having health insurance blows. Thank God I'm covered starting tomorrow. Hopefully I don't have a preexisting condition. I wouldn't want people I hate going through what she's going through.

[MDH]

NO, I think a better analogy would be that you get into a car wreck, and then the insurance company finds out you had some speeding ticket and an accident that you didn’t disclose. Possibly disqualifying you in the first place, definitely requiring review of your policy.

She has a heart problem, what kind…is she a prime candidate for a heart attack, triple bypass…I don’t know do you?

She misrepresented her weight, as stated earlier…probably not 5-10 lbs.
So if this woman is 50-100 lbs overweight, heart problems that makes her extremely high risk, did her doctor recommend exercise, lose some weight… did she ignored him.

[redhawk]

NO, I think a better analogy would be that you get into a car wreck, and then the insurance company finds out you had some speeding ticket and an accident that you didn’t disclose. Possibly disqualifying you in the first place, definitely requiring review of your policy.

She has a heart problem, what kind…is she a prime candidate for a heart attack, triple bypass…I don’t know do you?

She misrepresented her weight, as stated earlier…probably not 5-10 lbs.
So if this woman is 50-100 lbs overweight, heart problems that makes her extremely high risk, did her doctor recommend exercise, lose some weight… did she ignored him.
Speeding directly contributes to car wrecks.

Obesity directly contributes to heart disease.

Obesity has no direct relation to breast cancer.

Sorry, I don't see it. Pres. Obama uses stories like this not only to pull heart strings but also to set up the Republicans. Rather than arguing against universal healthcare, he has Republicans arguing for the health insurance companies. It's a win-win for him, even if his facts were wrong.
FYI... she doesn't look like the 400 lb cow who cruises through Wal-Mart on her medicaid scooter eating cheese puffs.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/06/16/health.care.hearing/art.beaton.cnn.jpg

[MikeC2W]

If it's such a 'win win' and they don't need one republican vote to pass it, why isn't it passed yet? Why do more than 56% of the public not want it?

First we were told to hate big oil, then pharma, then banks, and now insurance ..... WTF over? Might as well just hate America..... Oh wait ....

And NO ONE here is saying reform is not needed, but this is bullshit.

Let's just wreck something that works just fine for 85% of the people.

America is the land of equal opportunity not economic equality. You want economic equality go to Cuba, Russia or China. This is going to sound harsh, but how the hell is it my problem that you die of anything? And I still haven't found the line in the Constitution that says I should.

[redhawk]

If it's such a 'win win' and they don't need one republican vote to pass it, why isn't it passed yet? Why do more than 56% of the public not want it?
I'm not equating this debate to the debate over universal healthcare. I think universal healthcare is a sham, but I'm not going to defend actions like this because I happen to be a conservative.
First we were told to hate big oil, then pharma, then banks, and now insurance ..... WTF over? Might as well just hate America..... Oh wait ....
I don't hate insurance companies. But I also don't think they really give a shit about me. I also don't think the people who made my bed, car, water-heater, or stove give a shit about me. My car insurance company doesn't care about me either, but I'm glad they exist. If I ever get in a wreck I should have confidence that they will uphold their end of the bargain.
Let's just wreck something that works just fine for 85% of the people.
So if someone, by no fault of their own, ends up in that 15% group, fuck 'em? Simple protections for masses wouldn't wreck the system.
America is the land of equal opportunity not economic equality. You want economic equality go to Cuba, Russia or China. This is going to sound harsh, but how the hell is it my problem that you die of anything? And I still haven't found the line in the Constitution that says I should.
I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but I never said anything about economic equality. Having the opportunity to get reasonable medical care paid for by a system which you have already been paying into for X number of years is not the same as having guaranteed free healthcare.

[CarnageWhiskey]

So let me get this straight...
She has breast cancer but she didn't disclose a heart condition and 5 lbs so fuck her, let her die, go capitalism! Sorry Johnny, you didn't disclose the fact that you had anal fissures, so you're brain surgery will not be covered.

Not having health insurance blows. Thank God I'm covered starting tomorrow. Hopefully I don't have a preexisting condition. I wouldn't want people I hate going through what she's going through.

It's not that she had a pre-existing condition, it's that she didn't disclose it.

Ok lets say she dies on the table as a result of her undisclosed pre-existing heart condition.
Who's liable?

Guys get kicked out for fraudulent enlistments all the time.
Should they not?

Sorry, but fuck her.
She lied to save on insurance costs and got caught, fuck her.

[Longrifle]

. . . segregation worked fine for 85% of the people. . .
When did segregation work "just fine for 85% of the people?"

Are you implying it was fine with ALL white folks once upon a time?

[MikeC2W]

I'm not equating this debate to the debate over universal healthcare. I think universal healthcare is a sham, but I'm not going to defend actions like this because I happen to be a conservative.

I don't hate insurance companies. But I also don't think they really give a shit about me. I also don't think the people who made my bed, car, water-heater, or stove give a shit about me. My car insurance company doesn't care about me either, but I'm glad they exist. If I ever get in a wreck I should have confidence that they will uphold their end of the bargain.

Yeah, my post was more of a shot gun blast. That said, I hear ya; but fraud is a motherfucker. When I applied for life & health insurance I might have been tempted to not disclose that my sorry ass still smokes occasionally. Then I realized that I could be fucking myself and my family in a really really bad way for a few bucks a month.... I don't ever want to be in that position - ever. So I take steps that will hopefully allow me to avoid it. Other people don't really care and if they don't care I certainly don't.

Who the hell forgets about a heart condition?

Like DH said, it's a business. Could there be some reforms, maybe, probably I suppose. 100's of millions of Americans seem to be able to get it straight, there's some sad story's and as compassionate people we all feel for them, but I damn sure don't need the government to take it over. And I'm tired of hearing American Industry's being made into some type of evil villains.

Business cares way more about you than the Government ever will.

[redhawk]

When did segregation work "just fine for 85% of the people?"

Are you implying it was fine with ALL white folks once upon a time?
I deleted that because I realized how ridiculous it was. That said, I don't think ALL of the 85% of people with a good plan are fine with others getting screwed.

[heavyguns1/1]

I have health insurance premiums witheld every paycheck, plus another $49 biweekly for Medicare, which if it still exists when I retire, I would still have to pay premiums for. WTF am I paying for it now for.
I've said it before, too many people riding in the wagon while too few are pulling it.
I am against anything that is going to take more from my family to give to those that refuse to help themselves.
SSI,Medicaid, Aid for Families with Dependant Children, Food Stamps, WIC,Section 8 Housing, the list goes on and on.
I would like to keep most of what I EARN.

[Dark Helmet]

Your insurance company looks at your car and realizes that your rear seatbelt doesn't properly function. No one was in the rear seat but that doesn't matter, it should have functioned for you to have insurance.

Instead of fixing your car they cancel your insurance and refuse to pay for breach of contract. AND they keep the money you've paid to them.

You have identified an important insurance item here; the difference between commonplace underwriting and what is called a warranted application.

Underwriting is the process of evaluating a risk based on what is supposed by the underwriter to be truthful information and making a business decision to offer coverage through the terms of the contract.

Warranted apps ensure the coverage only applies if the applicant follows through on certain performance issues at the time of loss. The best example that comes imeediately to mind as being common here is with what is called "jewelers block" insurance; most jewelers block policies will be nullified if it is determined that the business does not lock up items worth above a certain dollar amount every single night. Leave the Hope Diamond out in a display case and it gets ripped off? No cover.

There is a huge, applicable difference here. In the first case of the liar, she polluted the underwriting process with fraudulent information.

In your example with the seat belt, such coverage would only be denied if the app was warranted; meaning the insured would have to agree ahead of time, in writing, to wear his seat belt.

Big difference; hence poor and logically weak analogy.

[MikeC2W]

So if someone, by no fault of their own, ends up in that 15% group, fuck 'em? Simple protections for masses wouldn't wreck the system.


Yeah fuck'em....lol...I hate to say that, I have too much karmic debt as it is!

I had some no work wannabe actress telling me how it's her right to have free health insurance coverage because she couldn't afford it. I told her to get a job that pays better..... she didn't like that idea.

The bottom line is Pres. Obama is trying to sell us a bill of goods and for the most part Americans aren't buying it, we're not a collective.

[heavyguns1/1]

Or a charity.

[redhawk]

Who the hell forgets about a heart condition?

Not that I actually think she forgot, or even care whether she forgot, but I have forgotten about my appendectomy filling out forms. It took one day to get the puss filled bastage removed and the only reminder is a scar I notice maybe once a month.
Business cares way more about you than the Government ever will.
Not when I'm workin' the phone! :biggrin:
I talked to some lady today whose son died 4 months ago and she had gotten nothing from the gubmint except a letter saying his autopsy would be done in 12 weeks. I got on that phone and called everyone in Ohio with a pulse until I finally talked to the motherfucking medical examiner herself! It's in the mail. :cool: It was clear to me that the Dept. of Health had totally forgotten about her and all she wanted was to know why her son had died.

Yeah fuck'em....lol...I hate to say that, I have too much karmic debt as it is!
To each his own, but I'd prefer we come up with a solution rather than have productive citizens end up $30,000 in debt because of one ER visit.

[MikeC2W]

Originally Posted by redhawk
To each his own, but I'd prefer we come up with a solution rather than have productive citizens end up $30,000 in debt because of one ER visit.

Yes, I was joking. I would like to come up with a productive solution as well.

I'd say 30K is not too bad if that one ER visit saved your life. Certainly it's not worth the current overhaul they are proposing.

We could go back and forth on this all day, I don't believe in big government, I certainly don't believe in Government run anything. I could find millions of examples of people coming to this country to receive medical attention, thousands of examples of Govt HC killing people, but Pres. Obama gives one example of a Ins Co. and oh shit it's time for everything to change.

Let's force everyone to buy a government product, tax them on it and if they don't pay the tax put them in jail. So now we'll have every Amish person in jail (they don't believe in insurance), every person who's against abortion in jail, every person against birth control in jail, and if not that...here's a 25K fine for you to be in debt with. Sounds perfect! Right? Because I know I read this all in the Constitution somewhere.

Let's stick our heads in the sand and ignore all the facts, because one women lost her coverage for committing fraud.

I'm not buying it. It's the biggest power grab in our history. What's even more interesting is the friggin Democrats aren't buying it either, like I said, they have the votes they can do whatever it is they want..... If it's so perfect why can't they get it done? Must be that vast right wing conspiracy, the shadow government, or all those nazi protestors at town hall meetings....?

[Dark Helmet]

I could find millions of examples of people coming to this country to receive medical attention, thousands of examples of Govt HC killing people, but Pres. Obama gives one example of a Ins Co. and oh shit it's time for everything to change.

Two Alpha, Two Alpha, Two Alpha.....

[MikeC2W]

What's it all about?

Structural Inequalities.....?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/16/obama.naacp/

The "steepest" barriers are not prejudice and discrimination, he said, but the "structural inequalities that our nation's legacy of discrimination has left behind."

Obama highlighted some of his administration's policies as examples of how the government is attempting to break down the barriers of inequity.



Marxist. Structural Inequities. Redistribution of Wealth. This guy is pure ideology, pure Marxist.

You don't have to be a genius, he's not even hiding it; it's just not being reported.

America's promise was never one of economic equality, it was simply equality of opportunity.

[John6719]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3KDmEvNmJ0&feature=related


"The Day ObamaCare Died"

Warning: You will laugh your ass off. Do not drink coffee during the watching of this video.

[Looon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3KDmEvNmJ0&feature=related


"The Day ObamaCare Died"

Warning: You will laugh your ass off. Do not drink coffee during the watching of this video.


AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Im stealing this and posting it on my facebook page to get a rise outta my liberal stepdaughters.:smile:

[heavyguns1/1]

Pretty cool Billy Idol lip snarl thing going.
Shanklin has some funny stuff.

[John6719]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Im stealing this and posting it on my facebook page to get a rise outta my liberal stepdaughters.:smile:


I'm sending it to my liberal parents, same reason. I'm glad we don't have the same political views....Family get togethers would be pretty boring.

[LpStck1]

I work in the medical field and I've taken probably thousands of patient histories in my time. I "know" what needs to be on a thorough history, but even I can't recall every little detail when faced with one of those 20-page questionnaires. Yeah, she screwed up and should have listed the heart issue. But it still pisses me off that the insurer didn't give the lady a break; she has cancer. It's not like she was asking to have a boob-job or a facelift for vanity sake. I agree with those who said the almighty $$$$ was at the heart (or lack there of) of that decision.

[Dark Helmet]

I "know" what needs to be on a thorough history, but even I can't recall every little detail when faced with one of those 20-page questionnaires.

Sure....but a diagnosed heart condition? Think that just slipped her mind? Seriously?

[Looon]

Sure....but a diagnosed heart condition? Think that just slipped her mind? Seriously?X2.

Ive had surgery only two times in my life. But I can remember what age I was when I had the surgery's and what they were for. I never think about that type of shit UNLESS IM FILLING OUT THE MEDICAL QUESTIONAIRE. It tends to refresh one's memory or at least cause me to try and remember what procedures 'I' may have had.

I don't buy that 'reason' for one friggen second.

[SOTB]

The insurance industry is not doing itself any favors with some of it's actions.

THIS STORY (http://www.myfoxchattanooga.com/dpp/health/dpgo_woman_denied_health_insurance_rape_lwf_200910 22_4181569) appears to be backed up on several networks, so I'm of the opinion that at least a portion of it is probably true. I found a couple of other articles that don't include the same gal who was raped, and the other women also reported similar treatment at the hands of their insurance companies.

Soooooooooooooooooooo, bottom line -- my insurance is good as long as I don't need it, right? If I state that I have a serious issue, I get dropped -- is that about the way it works? Maybe not, but the insurance industry has not done a lot to rectify this perception -- on the contrary, they've armed the WH with an awful lot of ammo that can (and will) be used against them....

[Looon]

The insurance industry is not doing itself any favors with some of it's actions.

THIS STORY (http://www.myfoxchattanooga.com/dpp/health/dpgo_woman_denied_health_insurance_rape_lwf_200910 22_4181569) appears to be backed up on several networks, so I'm of the opinion that at least a portion of it is probably true. I found a couple of other articles that don't include the same gal who was raped, and the other women also reported similar treatment at the hands of their insurance companies.

Soooooooooooooooooooo, bottom line -- my insurance is good as long as I don't need it, right? If I state that I have a serious issue, I get dropped -- is that about the way it works? Maybe not, but the insurance industry has not done a lot to rectify this perception -- on the contrary, they've armed the WH with an awful lot of ammo that can (and will) be used against them....Correct. There are some fucked up issues with the insurance industry that need to be addressed and acted upon for sure.

[KidA]

The insurance industry is not doing itself any favors with some of it's actions.

THIS STORY (http://www.myfoxchattanooga.com/dpp/health/dpgo_woman_denied_health_insurance_rape_lwf_200910 22_4181569) appears to be backed up on several networks,


That's some shit that would make a father blow up an entire building with everyone inside. Just sayin'

[John6719]

That bad part is it only takes a few bad cases for them to look like shit--I think we all know how that goes.....
The insurance companies deal with millions of people and cases every year. For every "they denied my coverage for x, y, or z"
there is PROBABLY a "they covered me even though....".

My younger brother had many issues from birth, has had something like 20 major surgeries.
There were times when the insurance companies could have stuck it to us pretty hard, but they didn't.
We had to fight for it sometimes (more like beg and plead), but they helped us out.
One instance I remember; he had turned 19, wasn't enrolled in school (therefore he is no longer covered under my parents plan),
had a surgery, and they covered it.

It is always easy to point the negative when you're dealing with a entity as large as the insurance industry.
The press often did it with us, the military. That doesn't mean that we were all bastards and nothing good ever
came from us--it just isn't as news worthy (or it doesn't support their agenda).

[John6719]

That's some shit that would make a father blow up an entire building with everyone inside. Just sayin'

Agreed.

[redhawk]

Maybe not, but the insurance industry has not done a lot to rectify this perception -- on the contrary, they've armed the WH with an awful lot of ammo that can (and will) be used against them....
Yes, but isn't a stalemate a win for the insurance industry? I have no doubt that there is a solution out there, but Presidential administrations and industries do not prefer compromise, sadly.