View Full Version : Schools
Cree Warrior
8 May 2000, 17:38
Just a discussion question for y'all.
I feel, as well as others that I have spoken with, that the military would do more to increase soldier moral by offering more courses and schools then by upping our pay. What do you think?
As a soldier I would definitely much rather have more chances at Para, recce, pathfinder, Ranger, or Commando than a pay increase. This way the squared away soldiers get credit, moral goes up cuz you get to have more badges and shit on you DEU's, and you can tell the weak fu-ks from the squared away soldiers.
As for the service blokes, what about offereing them say more IBM courses or something as an incentive?
I've seen so many people just talk about how they wished they could go on this course or that course and then spread the knowledge, but it never comes to fruition. We get pay raises but it doesnt seem to raise the moral from my point of view. Most guys join the Army so they can do cool shit, and they dont get to do much high speed stuff at all.
Sua Sponte
I definitely agree. I would give up a year's pay to go on a Ranger course, or the proposed 'Canadian Commando Course' in the Infantry Journal (Idea sounds good, but probably nothing will come of it.
Gotta say I agree with you totally, sir. There's little to no "high speed" training available, and frankly, section attacks with blanks get a little boring after awhile.
A couple years ago some guy's from my unit got to go to a US NG base in Florida and train in FIBUA facilities - a whole little city - and loved it. Best training they've ever done - MILES gear, everything. And something like that, relevant, realistic, interesting, and challenging training will probably never come up again.
We need something to bring up the training - potentially excellent soldiers are being wasted, and good troops are leaving from boredom and frustration.
New courses - airborne, a commando/ranger course, more recce courses, something has to be there. Even setting up a FATS in the Mess would help...
If not courses, then cross-training down south with the US NG, or getting us some MILES equipment would serve it's purpose.
On another note, any opinions on the recent Jack Fraser Report on the Reserves? Think it'll be implemented?
Enfield
Enfield,
While my voting Liberal was highly unlikely in the next election, I faxed Art Eggleton (at http://neteffect.ca/faxfeds/) and flat-out told him that if the tasking of any Reserve unit is changed to a support role (from a combat one) he could kiss my vote goodbye.
Don't these dipdunks realize that the reserves are the best place to attract potential reg force troops? Since the government likes to think they are a business now, can't they understand the concept of 'try-before-you-buy'? Having said that, the next thing they'll want to do is privatize the army and sell it to the highest bidder...
My two cents...
Hap
I agree with Cree Warrior 110%. All of the squared away soldiers I know are dying to go on high speed courses. NOT diversity trg, or legal trg, or SHARP trg or ... well you get the picture.
What is the obstacle to such high speed training? The chief culprit is probably money. But laziness plays a big part. I had tried to set up some training with US SF. Everything on the American side was ready to go, but we just couldn't get our shit together on the Canadian side. We needed so many damned approvals at the Bde and area levels, and no one was willing to do the staff work to implement it.
So how can the problem be fixed?
I go on foreign courses on my own. Went to the US for sniping, going to Holland on the 20th for basic para (+ freefall if time/cash permits). I'm trying to get on a US LRS reserve course. According to the RTB at Benning, 2 out of 3 were cancelled last year due to (get ready for this..) "lack of interest" from the ANG!! Makes you weep with frustration. I've found that other militaries are glad to have you, it's our command that takes the dim view of extra-cirrcular activities. I got tired of beating my head against a wall, and just went and did it myself. When doing this sort of thing unofficially you must keep in mind:
1) Be on your best behaviour. People will still regard you as a representitive of your country. DON'T make an ass out of yourself, your unit or country. Word gets around.
2) Get some liability insurance privatly.
3) Render all military courtesy to everyone. When in doubt, salute.
4) Top the course. If you do well, chances are your command won't be so hard on you about your "adventure training".
5) You can't wear your CF uniform (remember, you're in a civilian role). Ask permission to wear theirs.
6) When you get back, brief your command on what you did. Don't try to cover up or be sneaky about it. Write up a little report and pass it along to your section/platoon commander. Dosen't hurt to bring back a few extra t-shits, trinkets for the mess, etc.
I'm sure there are some valid reasons why the CF can't (won't?) put on high-speed courses, but somebody up there must realize the curent lack of ANY advanced training is wholly detrimental to any unit. The money argument only goes so far, it does not cost milions more to put on a recce course instead of running a driver-wheeled.
Ok, now I'm going to answer my own question. I too am sick of pounding my head against the wall. I really don't see the point in staying in the CF and putting up with all the BS and doing a ton of unpaid admin work when there is very little payoff in the form of high speed training or ex's. Here is my opinion on why we find ourselves here:
Canadian military leadership not only can't think outside of the box, it can't even think close to the edges. The high command has this fantasy that the army has to be ready to fight a full scale conventional heavy armour type war. This is a function of officers who were brought up during the cold war and are now too doctrinally brain washed to realize that the modern world requires a much different military than it did 20 years ago. Hence, all of our training and equipment is designed with high intensity conflict in mind.
There comes a point where it is no longer possible to have the resources to fight such a conflict. Rumor has it that the army will be reduced to two brigades. What the hell kind of war can you fight with two brigades? The situation is totally laughable.
JTF is being run off of its feet. This is because the days of high intensity massed infantry and armour warfare are long gone. Today what is required is the ability to apply force surgically against strategic targets. Hence, the ascendency of special operations forces.
Now, if we could only get the high command to come out of their conventiona/manoeuver warfare mentality and realize that the armed forces would be much more valuable to the politicians if they could perform useful functions, rather than prepare for unlikely contingencies. The likelihood of a high intensity conflict is very low. Even if it did happen, our contribution of 2 brigades (which would mean committing the entire army) would be of absolutely no consequence in the grand scheme of things. Yet, everyday we have terrorists running around (mostly Islamic), war criminals to be arrested (Yugo), Canadians being held hostage (Columbia/Equador), Canadians having to be rescued (Sierra Leone) and drug runners to be interdicted. All of which pose serious threats to the security of Canada but none of which can be suitably dealt with by the traditionally constituted Canadian military.
Only after the high command comes to this realization will we start to see the type of courses that users of this board want to see. Airborne, pathfinder, recce, commando, HALO, SCUBA, sniper, CQB, close protection, strategic reconnaissance, et cetera are considered ancilliary skills to conventional armed forces. They are, however, the bread and butter of spec ops. We'll get the courses we want only after the high command has undergone serious attitude adjustment.
I don't know if this will ever happen. I have this annoying feeling at the back of my mind that the CF is turning into (has turned into?) the Polish cavalry of 1939... and we all know what happened to them when they came up against the Wehrmacht.
First to the front,
Recce
recce - You hit right on the head. We're training for WW3, and nothing else - despite the fact that the world has changed, and that for 40 years Canadian troops have only been peacekeeping, we're still ready to meet the Russians in Germany.. all 2 Brigades of us.
The recent Report that came out has some good points in it - chop most of the admin head out of the CF, expand the Reserves. But they could take it even farther - we only have 3 full-time Infantry regiments, it wouldn't be too hard to get them all into somekind of high-speed training, both in Canada and abroad. The day the Airborne died so did all hope for high speed assignments.
CF senior officers can't think past their careers and looking good on paper. I've never heard troops praise a senior or staff officer. We have motivated troops who want to train and learn, and the Army let's them down. The fact is, the CF is far to small to fight any kind of war, so why pretend we can? We waste money on the wrong things at the wrong times, and pay people to do the wrong things. The public has little respect for the CF, and there's a new scandal every week.
Personally, I vote for firing 95% of NDHQ, expand the Reserves with the money savings, and get Reg Force troops all the high-speed courses they can take.
TonyM - how do you get onto these foreign courses? More info on that would be appreciated!
Fideliter
Enfield
Enfield, all is not lost. 33Bde has conducted their March training at Ft. Drum, Kentucky for at least the last two years... under the name Op Southern Drive.
This year, the training was pure FIBUA, with full MILES gear.
Now about other trg... I guess while I wait for highspeed courses to come around, I'll be spending my own money too on civie courses like Mountaineering (Rock and Ice), and Medical courses... I am looking at some of those courses offered by Surgical Shooting as well... but I hope you will not have to bring your own firearms??
Being just a lowly grunt, I don't know too much about combined arms tactics... but from educated guesses, I would say that if we were to try and fight a war, even with our Allies, we would be in a world of hurt.
If it was just and infantry vs. infantry fight, we would probably do pretty well... but remember that we have nearly no air defense assets. The few ADATs have been recommended to be scraped because they haven't seen operational use in the last 10 years. And besides the Skyguard? 40mm AA guns, we have no short range air defense... I know we are suppose to have Javelin AA missiles (so it says on the DND website), but what are the chances of front line units being issued enough of those to be effective? During the Falklands, 2 Para was attacked by Argentinian Skyhawks. They were lucky because they had low level AA assets to take out the attackers. Will we be so lucky?
Sure, we have Hornets to protect us; and I have no doubt that our pilots will splash many of the enemy birds... but since we seem to only be able to field a dozen or so fighters at a time, all the avaliable fighters will be too busy defending us from enemy bombers to provide close air support against enemy ground targets.
What I think may be beneficial, is a reorganization of the entire armed forces into a small, but balanced force like the Marines. Create battlegroups that have their own attack and troop helos, tanks and IFVs, more AA and AT weps, and perhaps a squadron of fighters attached as well. Also needed, would be a much improved air and sea-lift capability... it doesn't matter how big a punch we have if we can't actually get to the battlefield within reasonable time.
Some methods for getting on foreign courses/excersises, etc
1) Most CF reserve regiments have affiliations with other armies. Get a hold of them and travel (on your own) and visit them. Buy some rounds in the mess. Bring them a t-shirt or small gift. Things will happen.
2) Contact some ANG units in the US. Try to get a hold of some SNCO's, not officers. Most are like us and welcome a chance to get together. Again it's worth a trip to visit and "press the flesh".
The rule here is to make face-to-face contact. Don't try to e-mail your way in, it won't work. Push your command to get into international competitions (Cambrian Patrol, Swiss Raid Commando, Fallschirjager Cup). Join foreign military associations (USMC Scout/Sniper, Para Reg, Special Forces, etc) pay for it out of you own pocket and get the membership in the unit's name. Keep your section/platoon commander informed and don't break any protocols. Be polite and friendly in your dealings. Keep trying.
Enfield
11 May 2000, 00:54
Thanks for the info TonyM!
Just took a look around the Aussie and NZ pages on here, and their army's look a lot more highspeed than the Canadian, especially the Australians. So if they can do all that training, why can't Canada?
We both have small militaries, a peaceful foreign policy, and a similar culture - but they have more units with more highspeed training, interesting and challenging courses to take, excellent equipment (our Sea Kings to their Blackhawks), and highspeed exercises. I think they took the right track down the Doctrine and Policy Road.
In my view, we have a small, professional army - why can't we turn the whole thing into elite unit's, or Airborne? Or one battalion each? I admit that giving highspeed courses piecemeal wouldn't do much good, since unless everyone's qualified the unit can't do it. So give a whole battalion or regiment a commando course or a ranger course. Turn the RCR into an Airborne unit, get the PPCLI doing Mountain warfare, and maybe Commando for the Van Doos.
Ok, just some ideas, but I think that having one highspeed battalion per Regular Inf regiment would attract and keep a lot of soldiers, and spread skills around the Army. Increase the Reserves training and use us for any big wars that come up.
Enfield
I've had discussions like this lots of times, with the same results. Let's face it, sweeping dramatic military overhauls don't happen fast. They take lots of time and "blood on the floor" from guys who are willing to persevere and sacrifice on a different battleground. A military in trouble requires heroes at all levels, from rifleman to young officers willing to risk their careers to see the right thing done. Witness the changes in the USMC from the post-Vietnam era to the present. This was accomplished by people like SECNAV J. Webb and Gen Gray. These guys are "been there, done that" warriors, not the polictical management types so prevelant in our system. The most encouraging thing I find here is that the next generation of officers will (hopefully) make the changes we all want to see. As long as they can suck it up and hang in there until they are at a level when they can effect change. If anybody knows these types, support and encourage them any way you can, particularly if you're an SNCO. Make them shine, the payoff will come when they reach staff positions. For the impatient ones (like myself), nurture relationships with other units, foreign or domestic. Spread the word. If you're jump qualified, go on jump tours with other armies (IDF, next April. I'm going.) If you have contacts in US units, try to get them to come up to Canada for training (easier for them to do then us going to them). When your unit is going to do something really high-speed, contact a friend in another area. Most units don't mind extra bodies as lots of guys can't/won't show up for various reasons. Here's one for everyones consideration: Cpl Taylor (USMC Scout/Sniper) is trying to put together a USMC Sniper course (with weapons supplied from AI!!)for CF Reserve soldiers. As you can imagine, there's lots of obstacles in his path. Contact him at ghillie@pomeroy-wa.com for details or just to show you're interested and give him encouragement. Like I said befor, KEEP TRYING.
recce_o
11 May 2000, 17:04
TonyM:
You are a networking MACHINE. And I thought I was connected?! How do you find out about these opportunities?
Spots on foreign jump tours are just a matter of money. There are a few para associations set up in the US and Canada for this type of thing. You're looking at around $2500cdn to go on the IDF one. There's no way the CF will spring for that, so join one of the associations and pay your own way. Contact Rob Krott, ex- SF officer & contributor to SOF magazine, living in Edmonton now at para6@hotmail.com He can get you set up for foreign wings (IDF, South African Pathfinder, plus others). It's expensive so if you don't got the dough, you don't get to go. For all you poorer/student/starving artist types, try putting the idea forward at your next mess meeting. Hold some extra parties or BBQs to raise money to send maybe one guy from the unit, kinda like a lottery (I have no idea how you'd choose, that would be tough). Sure, it's not the best way, but it's better than nothing. There's ways of doing things if you want to. Anybody can find ways not to do things.
"..it ain't the killin' that's hard, kid. It's the willin'..." -John Wayne
Man all this talk of talking these courses on your own without unit approval is blowing my mind. I'd galdly pay the money to take jump courses and recce courses and shit like that because theres not much chance of me getting them as a Canadian Infantry soldier let alone a militia member. Can someone please send me some info on these courses.
Garett
Invicta
ghallman@nbnet.nb.ca
Enfield
12 May 2000, 10:11
$2500 for jump wings??? my god...
How do the courses work? Who supplies the weapons, equipment, and who's uniform do you wear? Are they fitted into the military's regular schedule of jump courses?
What courses have you done? How have you promoted them to your unit, and with how much success?
Enfield
I'm leaving on the 20th for the Dutch para course. I'll reserve opinions / reccomendation of it until I do it. I'll post details and send out some pics to anyone who wants when I get back on Jun 04. This is my first jump course (a bit scared but determined!), if all goes well, I'm signing on for next jump with the IDF. Costwise, yup it's a stiff one, but it's either wait to get a CF jump course or do something on your own. If anyone has other schemes brewing for training, please share. Doing it this way I can bring my wife and stay on after to make a bit of a holiday. Mentally eases the financial blow somewhat. Gonna tour up the Market Garden route to Arnhem then into Germany. I have a question for anyone in the QOR: at Benning the US will let guys "straphang" on jumps if there's extra seats, do the QOR do the same?
Addition to my above post
How did I promote this in my unit? Kind of went over like a death at a birthday party with the HQ. I posted a notice on the platoon room training board, and the coy 2IC tore it down. I was told I would not get permission to wear the wings, can't wear the uniform, yada,yada... well you get the picture.
Not QOR, but I have been told by my jump qualified plt. 2IC that once you get your wings, and they have an empty seat on the Herc at Trenton, you can go on and make the jump. I suppose that's pretty much the same as the QOR, since it really is the Parachute center that runs the flights.
Here's info on the next sniper course in the states you can get on. I did this one and it's worth it. My shooting has improved 100%. If you go, make sure you contact Cpl Taylor first, explain that you're CF he can get you weapons and ammo there, plus modify your portion of the course to military standards.
ARRIVAL: Attendees are requested to report on Monday,June19th, 2000 at 8:00am to Marine Corps Scout Sniper School San Onifra, Camp Pendlton CA
DRIVING DIRECTIONS: North on Interstate 5 from San Diego to Ocean Side.
Stay on Interstate 5 in the right hand lanes and you will see the sign for the Base. Once you arrive at the gate ask the Marine on duty for driving directions to San Onifra
COSTS: Instructional costs will be $575.00 per student,lodging and meals are the responsibility of the attendee's agency.
MEALS: Be prepared to eat in the field twice daily. Bring plenty of water
MOTEL LIST Contact us if you would like to stay on base.
TELEPHONE: Attendees should advise their families and departments of
how to reach them at the school in the event of an emergency.
EMERGENCY ONLY: (509) 995 0175
LEAD INSTRUCTOR: Any questions about course content should be directed
to: Carl R. Taylor, Chief Instructor Surgical Shooting P.O. Box 374
Pomeroy, WA 99347(509)843-3804
ATTIRE: Weather during this time of year is for the most part hot. You may, however, wish to prepare for rain.
NOTE-TAKING: Note-taking items such as notebook paper, data book, pens,
and pencils will not be made available at the training site, and are the responsibility of each attendee.
AMMO/EQUIPMENT: Cold and wet weather gear for the range. Sniper rifle with sling. BDU's boots and hats. Ear and eye protection,gloves. 550 rounds of ammo 1 Data book.
ATTENDANCE: This class is designed to enhance the officers training
while in the field. Training will be conducted primarily on the range
with a few hours of classroom study, and may require long hours.
Completion of this class requires full attendance.
GEAR: If you need a data book ghillie suit or other gear items you can order it through Surgical Shooting. Allow enough time, no last minute request please
GEAR LIST:
a.. Rifle Scoped with Shooting Sling
b.. Drag Bag
c.. Ammo Match Grade 600 Rounds
d.. Rifle Cleaning Gear to Include Bore Guide and Rod
e.. Data Book (Can be purchased from Surgical Shooting)
f.. Binoculars at Least 7X50
g.. Spotting Scope at Least 20X
h.. Pen and Pencils
i.. Ghillie Suit (Can be purchased from Surgical Shooting)
j.. Camouflaged Face Paint
k.. Camouflaged Utilities. (Black BDU's are not recommended)
l.. Socks 3 pair
m.. T-shirts Green or Black
n.. Boonie Cover / Hat
o.. All Tactical Gear That is used during a call out i.e. body armor
pistol belt.
p.. Sand bag
q.. Parachute Cord 3' Green
r.. One Pair of Boots (They will take a beating)
Any questions regarding the gear list can be referred to Carl R. Taylor
at (509) 995-0175
Additional info for the sniper course:
I have a contact in Washington state for good deals on match grade ammo. Black Hills 7.62 BTHP 168 or 175g MATCH for $335US for 500rnds. I used it and it's excellent stuff. Contact Norm Dion, 253-565-2753, good guy, retired living just north of Ft Lewis.
Cree Warrior
13 May 2000, 21:00
Man I never thought I'd see the day when that old bumper sticker would come true...'Some day the military will have to hold bakesales to buy new equipment and education will receive top priority funding'
Is that scout/sniper course a Military course or a civy one?
Do you guys know the prices on Military courses? I've heard Ranger school is 25,000.00 and SF Q course is like close to 100,000.00.
Your Q's regarding foriegn jump wings....I got my US wings at Benning and my British wings training with C Coy 2 para when I was in 2/75 Ranger Reg't in the US. I applied to get my CDN wings, and was given equivilency!! Thoughts are that if they cank the CDN jump course they will send guys to Benning (which may be cheaper)and then just give em CDN wings (like the USMC with theirs).
You can only wear foriegn wings on your DEU's when you are in the country they originate from.
Sua Sponte
Enfield
14 May 2000, 14:47
I was just thinking the same thing - I guess I'll be selling chocolate bars next month to fund an exercise in the fall...
If you don't mind explaining, how did you end up in the Rangers? How did it feel going from the Rangers into the Cdn Army?
And out of personal interest, did you see any Paras wearing glasses? =o)
I don't think that "pay your own way" training is going to work overall, though for some individual's it could be fun. Closer ties with other armies is a good start though - maybe Cdn Regiments should have official association with American regiments as well as British units (like we already do).
Enfield
Cree Warrior
14 May 2000, 17:33
I signed up in the US cuz I am treaty. Any status Indians in Canada can work in the US under the Jay treaty of 1674, however you are not recognized as a full US citizen, more like a legal alien.
When I got in I "accidentely" signed the US citizen box to get into 2/75. To work in SOCCOM you have to be a full US citizen, and when S-2 found out they told me I had to leave. Basically my 1SGT, ex SAS, Yakima Indian, said f--k them and hid me out. Eventually instead of being shipped"down the road" to a Leg unit, I got out.
US vs CDN armies, I went into detail about this with Recce_O. There are alot of differences, some good some bad. Definitely get more and newer toys to play with down there. Jobs are more specific, ie as Infantry you don't get trained in mortars or other shit, just M203, M4, M16, and M240G (C6). Way more CQB training, less small unit patrolling.
In the US (in the Reg't anyway) you constantly train for real world missions where your role is very specific, so you get very good at that specific role, but not alot of cross training. People arent trained as leaders as they are here, more as followers, good and bad to this as well, I know now as a leader that you can't have a whole PL full of leaders.
PT there is to a way higher standard. There you are given points on your promotions board for PT, education, weapons score, boards etc. PT is big, if the Regimental Commander can't do the standard 7 pull ups minimum to be in the regiment he is out, no exceptions. You often see them old commanders out on rucks and runs with the boys, leading from the front.
Here, well, er...no comment.
Troops here are better individually though, more educated and more open minded.
As for Paras wearing glasses, I cant really remember, I'll ask my friend to break out some old photos. I know after we left there were a few wearing casts, heh heh. This was just after Royce and Rorior Gracie came to Lewis to train us on JiuJitsu, so we got some real world practice in at Aldershot.
Sua Sponte
[This message has been edited by Cree Warrior (edited 05-14-2000).]
The surgical shooting course is open to military or law enforcement only. You'll need your ID to get the on base. Current cost for the ranger course is $22,000US. Western Area had 2 slots open to reservists for last Dec. Fax from Brigade read ;unit will pay careful attention to selecting candidates, should candidate be RTU'd (even during zero week), unit will still be responsible for 1/2 the cost of tuition...etc. Mcpl or Sgt only. Does anyone know who got to go? Nobody from out on Vancouver Island went.
The officer I did my interview to get in the CF with was airborne and he had the American jump wings around the left pocket on his DEU's. So I don't know what the deal with that is. Maybe recruiting Captains make up their own dress regs. The motivation behind people taking these foreign courses shouldn't be to get some snazy badges to sow on their uniforms anyway. Maybe its because I'm a private but I haven't heard much about reserve units training in other countries other then the RUMINT I've heard on FIBUA training in Florida being "awarded" to the unit that places the highest at ARCON. I don't know maybe things are all messed up here in LFAA. From my point of view I'd have to say so. There are a total of two QL4 courses being offered to my company this year, Drivers and Machine Gunners. I'm surprised that water distribution technician course isn't being offered because that will probably be the role of my regiment in a couple of years.
Our unit trains in the US 3-4 times a year. Don't get to mix much with the locals, we just use the training areas. I'm trying to get some ANG units to hook up with us on some of our jaunts, but so far no luck. If anybody has any US contacts in the Wash/Ore area, pass them along please.
Well I did the Dutch jump course, got my wings. We were supposed to do 8 jumps but the weather was bad (the whole thing was almost cancelled) we just squeaked in the 5 required for the wings. Course was very laid-back, almost civy. 3 days ground training then just waited for the weather to clear up. Did all the jumps in one evening and the next day. 3 heli exits out of a C208, 2 "stand-up,hook-up,shuffle to the door" out of an Anotonov. All clean-fatigue. Good bunch of guys, mostly US, some brits and a norwegian. Of course 2 weeks ago the Dutch army ran 150 guys through and the weather was hot and sunny all week. Good assortment of plaques in the hangar from units all over the world who jumped there including the Canadian Airborne Reg, the Parachute Reg and the SAS. Got to try the square rigs, nice easy SOFT landings. Wings and certificate were presented by a Capt from the Dutch army, along with supporting documents from Dutch military. Total cost for me, wife and infant son for 2 weeks hotel, meals, airfare from Vancouver and some extra sightseeing in Amsterdam came to $4000CDN. All in all, glad I went. The Dutch REALLY love the Canadian Army.
Cree Warrior
5 June 2000, 21:46
Congrats TonyM,
Sounds pretty rad. Were all of the other soldiers there, there on their own time? It sounds like you should be able to get your CDN wings now fairly easily. If you don't mind I'm gonna pass along the info you gave to the boys in my unit. I'll bet that alot of them will be interested in doing something similar.
What are the plans like for the IDF jump? I wouldnt mind doing something like that in the future.
Sua Sponte
Welcome to the Airborne Brotherhood!!!
What courses does the CF offer to Infantry NCM's and officers, both reg and reserve? I hear a lot of things from different people.
As someone who plans to join a reserve unit (most likely in the Halifax area) once in university I'd be curious to know what kinds of courses and training would be avaible to me.
As for paying for any foreign course on my own I'd consider that too.
Thanks.
Cree Warrior
6 June 2000, 01:57
From what I've seen its easy to get Driver Wheeled, Machine gun, small arms, etc. these are on top of your regular courses like phase courses(for officers), QL 2/3, JLC (NCM's), etc. Above that it is very rare for members to get courses like recce, pathfinder or para. In fact alot of courses are not even open to reservists, so no matter how high speed you are and even if your unit has a surlpus training budget they need to use you cant get on. Which sucks the big one.
Sua Sponte
All the other guys were on their own time/expense. Some of the US were on leave from Bosnia and Kosovo. Talking to them, it's the same old story "no courses, no fun shit, that's why were here, yada, yada.." One really switched on dude was a 1stSGT, master para and pathfinder and he was doing it for "fun". Got invited to his LRS unit next winter for some "fun shit". Talking to the two Germans they told me the whole German Army was just cut back by 30% on May 15. That's gotta suck. I'll post the info on the IDF jump as soon as I get it. I'm definitly going. Next course in Holland is Sept, I believe. Contact Rob Krott at para6@hotmail.com
"HIT IT....1000,2000,3000,4000,check canopy...."
Enfield
6 June 2000, 16:50
After QL 2/3, basically you have the QL4's - Drivers, machine-gunners, and communications to get, usually over the summer. The PLF, here in Halifax, also have a mortar tasking, so they're always trying to get people to take the mortar course and get into mortar platoon.
Like Cree Warrior said, after a few years you can get the NCO courses, Juniior Leadership and Infantry Section Commander's Course. Somewhere along there, you might, if your lucky, get the Jump Course, but that's hard and very random.
Once you hit Corporal, after getting one QL4, you can get all sorts of employment - most call outs, to go on peacekeeping tours, are for corporals only (5 from my unit just went to Kosovo). For Private/Corporals, there's jobs at the Range, on Stores, helping out on courses, all sorts of stuff to put cash in your pocket, but not many highspeed courses.
The Recce course usually goes to experienced Corporals, MCpl's, or Sgts, and most Sergeants have it. The Small Arms Intsructor's Course, offered every once in awhile to experienced junior NCO's, is a very hard course that teaches soldiers how to instruct the use of small arms.
Hope this makes sense and is what you wanted.
Enfield
So Tony whats the deal with you being able to wear your jump wings. I've seen two ex-ariborne guys with American ones on their CF's. I'm guessing you can wear them as soon as you get your Canadian ones.
Does anyone know what a GOLD LEAF in the middle of the Canadian jump wings means. I saw an officer with a gold leaf last Sunday at our change of command parade and no one knew what it was for.
Jump wings classification:
Red Leaf - cherry wings. You get these after you have passed the jump course.
White Leaf - This shows that you have served in a jump coy or bat., can't remember which.
Gold Leaf - Combat jump
I'm not sure about wearing the wings officially. There was a cdn capt on the course who works in Ottawa, he told us that there was a canforgen that came out in april 99 stating that one foreign badge can now be worn (with or without equivlancy). I'm trying to find the reference, but so far no luck. I've already sewn an extra wing under the epaulette of my combats (got this from a brit, you can unbutton it and "flash" the wings to all the "craphats"). Just hada do it. There was a USMC GySgt who put his under his BDU pocket flap. The US army & brit guys all can apply to wear theirs. If someone knows the regs on this, please pass it along. Anybody got a line on how I can get a jump in a cdn aircraft?
Sent an e-mail to that guy but I haven't gotten a reply. Gotta try to find ouyt when that next Dutch course is which is in September or whatever. University starts in the middle of September so it would be cool if I could fit it in between ARCON and school.
Cree Warrior
8 June 2000, 22:50
TonyM,
Can you email me the details on the 2 slots that were available for Ranger school for western area? Or any info regarding that. Was that for reserves or reg force? (I guess all the good courses go to PARA Coy, 3PPCLI). I told my OC about the slots and he frieked out, said he didnt hear anything about that. He totally wants to send people, and is in the process of putting through one request now.
I guess our unit had an NCO approved to go a few years ago , but his police work conflicted with it too much.
Sua Sponte
I can be emailed at
jbwilson@ualberta.ca
Thanks bud.
Cree-
Our unit is "down" for the summer, but I'll go in on the next adm night and see if I can dig up the fax from brigade. The slots were for reserve Mcpl or Sgt. Didn't say anything about officer. Never did hear who got to go.
Garret-
Paracentrum Texel, Holland
Saturday, September 9, 2000 - Monday September 18, 2000
Course Cost: $1,250.00 US Funds
Deposit of $200.00 required by May 19, 2000. Balance by June 23, 2000.
Course Available to: Serving soldiers, reservists, National Guard and ex-serving soldiers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUTCH MILITARY PARACHUTIST COURSE
Five jumps with round canopy, military static-line stand-up exit. Dutch Army Wings awarded on completion.
The course runs from Monday (Sept. 11th) to Friday (Sept. 15th). Everyone must have a medical certificate signed by your GP and stamped fit to parachute (see attached 1). Age limit 17 – 55.
This is a popular course for both novice and ex-paratrooper wanting a refresher course, so book your place early. The flight is a charter flight from Toronto International to Amsterdam return.
Aircraft: AN.2 Antonov "Colt" jump ship.
Parachute: GQ Aeroconical.
Altitude: 2,500 ft.
DZ: Texel Paracentrum (large and flat).
Course includes:
Kit rental, ground training and instruction, Dutch License/Certificate, Dutch Wings, 5 jumps from a military aircraft, 3rd. party insurance. To and from Dutch Marine Base on Texel for presentation on amphibious landings, subject to operational commitments. Transportation from Amsterdam to Texel and return. A visit to Arnhem to see the British Airborne drop at the revered Ginkelse Heide. Also, admission to the Hartenstein Museum in Oosterbeek and those that are interested we will visit the Airborne cemetery. Also, invitation to "Prop Blast Party" food and drinks provided at the end of the course.
Dutch log books are provided and British Airborne log books are available.
A preferential rate has been obtained with the Airfield Hotel Hotel and the Nieuw Sports Hotel both located adjacent to the DZ. The cost includes, accommodation for 6 nights with breakfast and an evening meal in the price. The accommodation is basic but clean and convenient.
Tentative schedule:
Arrive Sunday, September 10
Arrive Amsterdam Airport then the train to Den Helder and the ferry to Texel. Taxis to hotels. Briefing at 2100 hrs.
Monday, September 11
Ground training begins at 0900 hrs. Possibly first jump.
Tuesday, September 12
Plan for 2 and 3 – weather permitting.
Wednesday, September 13
Plan for 4 and 5 jump – weather permitting. (a DC-3, Dakota will be available and if the group is interested we will negotiate the use of the Dakota for the final jump.
Thursday, September 14
Catch-up day, any if needed/ parachute packing – each step is supervised.
Friday, September 15
In the afternoon, a visit to the Dutch Marine Commando Boat Squadron in Texel – subject to operational commitments.In the evening the newly qualified Dutch Airborne are invited to a "Prop Blast Party".
Saturday, September 16
Visit Arnhem. Wings parade outside the Hartenstein Museum. See British Airborne drop at Ginkelse Heide. Visit the airborne cemetery and those that are interested visit the Johnny Frost Bridge (A Bridge Too Far). A stay in either Arnhem or Amsterdam Saturday evening.
Sunday, September 17
Departure Day. From Amsterdam to Toronto Airport.
The schedule for the week is not rigid and in the event of bad weather early in the week the jump days may be rearranged.
Suggested equipment:
Issued uniform and equipment including, BDUS, DPMS, combats, jump smock, parkas, beret, para helmet, jump boots, flashlight, rain gear. Dutch weather can be unpredictable, so remember to bring some warm clothing; the nights can get cold.
Required:
Passport
Medical insurance that covers parachuting (contact USPA)
4 (black and white) passport size photographs (3x4 centimeters) will be required.
A current medical certificate completed and signed by your GP is required. Serving soldiers and Guard may use their military medical certificate if current (not older than six months on April 2000). Medical certificate required with the final payment. No certificate, no jump!
To be returned with deposit:
Information required
Name: (as it appears on your passport)
Rank:
Serial number:
Regiment/Unit:
Full Address:
Birth Date:
Place of Birth:
Nationality:
Telephone-.
Facsimile:
E-mail:
I enclose my cheque or money order for $200.00 US this represents my deposit to participate in the Dutch course beginning September 11, 2000 to Friday September 15, 2000. 1 understand that once the air flight is booked that no refund will be made. A receipt for deposit will be made upon request. All jump activities will be performed in appropriate military uniform. Ex-service will require BDUs or appropriate military dress. Civilian cloths will be restricted to evenings and "down time". Wear only insignia as issued and achievements as awarded. Display what you are entitled to wear.
Deposits are due no later than the dates mentioned payable to D. Sewell
Joining instructions will follow.
For more information contact;
David Sewell Address:
83 Elm Avenue, Apt #106
Toronto
Ontario, M4W IPI
Tel. (416) 929-5871 (Residence)
(416) 947-4595 (Business)
E-Mail sewelld@idirect.com
That should cover it.
garett
18 June 2000, 19:32
who do I contact about this course. Sounds kinda late to go since all the money is due in a week. Thats a bit of a piss off because I probably would of went.
garett
18 June 2000, 19:34
Whats the deal with that second course. Do you need to have jumped before to take it.
I'd say give the guy a call, looks like the course runs in Sept, lots of time. No reason he wouldn't want your money.
Enfield
24 June 2000, 13:00
FNG - you said a gold Maple Leaf was for a combat jump. I thought the last combat jump a Canadian made was Arnhem or something like that??? Why would a serving officer have a combat jump??
Enfield
baboon
27 June 2000, 04:20
It would have been the Rhine Crossing ( Operation Varsity ), 1st Canadian Para Bn, 6th Airborne Div.
That's a very good question. I have never seen anything but whites and reds on the jump wings of current serving officers and enlisted personnel. I may have mixed up the white and the gold, but I don't think so. Perhaps he may have been attached to a foreign military command for a combat jump? If such action is possible?
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