Cold weather gear

[VMI_Marine]

I'm doing a cold weather combat engineering package in Bridgeport, CA in December, and was told that this forum could help me find some good gear to keep warm and enable me to do my job effectively. Right now all I have is the standard Marine Corps issue long underwear, Goretex, and wool sweater. Can anyone suggest some gear to me, and tell me where to get it?

[TonyM]

Get a hold of a "SAS Headover" or you guys might call them neck gaiters. Polypro or Merino, never cotton mix. Damn handy. Mesh insoles, keep your socks from freezing to the bottom of your boots. Widest mouth thermos you can find. When/if you get a chance to warm up some food, do it twice and put some in the thermos. Good boost for those long sentry shifts. Much better than chewing frozen jerky.

[garett]

Smart guy coming to the Canadians for the cold weather advice. I don't really know the extent of your winter warfare training so its hard to know what to say. Well us Canadians know the truth, in the winter it doesn't matter what you do, you'll either be sweating your ass off on a snowshoe march or freezing your ass off trying to get your tent up, theres no in-between comfort area. Yes mesh insoles are worth their weight in gold but if you can't get any use some card board and cut them into insoles and put your regular insoles over them. Correct me if I'm wrong but we've ditched the wool sweater for a fleece jacket. Our new fleece shit kicks ass as far as I'm concerned. For long underwear I'd suggest a Norge Army shirt, I just got issued something like it made of cool-max. For a second layer a fleece jacket. Then for the third your issue gore-tex jacket. Other then that get a good pair of gore-tex lined Thinsulate insulated boots, a good pair of gloves, a scarf (British Shemagh), and a good touque.

As for where to get kit:
www.USCAV.com (http://www.USCAV.com) has pretty well everything you want I guess although I'm not to big on their selection. Their fleece jackets are all black so that presents a problem for me but maybe not you.

-I'd also suggest the Canadian Peacekeeper line. I know its a shitty name but their products are good, I can attest I own pretty well everything they make. They've got green fleece jackets and their stuff costs a lot less then the stuff at USCAV.
Fleece jacket at USCAV=$130 US
Fleece jacket and pants together at Peacekeeper are about=$110 US www.wheelers.nb.ca (http://www.wheelers.nb.ca)

-Silverman's LTD of London, England has pretty well all the same stuff but it costs way too much. Www.military.co.uk (http://Www.military.co.uk)

Hope this helps a bit. Don't really know if I answered your question.Smart guy coming to the Canadians for the cold weather advice. I don't really know the extent of your winter warfare training so its hard to know what to say. Well us Canadians know the truth, in the winter it doesn't matter what you do, you'll either be sweating your ass off on a snowshoe march or freezing your ass off trying to get your tent up, theres no in-between comfort area. Yes mesh insoles are worth their weight in gold but if you can't get any use some card board and cut them into insoles and put your regular insoles over them. Correct me if I'm wrong but we've ditched the wool sweater for a fleece jacket. Our new fleece shit kicks ass as far as I'm concerned. For long underwear I'd suggest a Norge Army shirt, I just got issued something like it made of cool-max. For a second layer a fleece jacket. Then for the third your issue gore-tex jacket. Other then that get a good pair of gore-tex lined Thinsulate insulated boots, a good pair of gloves, a scarf (British Shemagh), and a good touque.

As for where to get kit:
www.USCAV.com (http://www.USCAV.com) has pretty well everything you want I guess although I'm not to big on their selection. Their fleece jackets are all black so that presents a problem for me but maybe not you.

-I'd also suggest the Canadian Peacekeeper line. I know its a shitty name but their products are good, I can attest I own pretty well everything they make. They've got green fleece jackets and their stuff costs a lot less then the stuff at USCAV.
Fleece jacket at USCAV=$130 US
Fleece jacket and pants together at Peacekeeper are about=$110 US www.wheelers.nb.ca (http://www.wheelers.nb.ca)

-Silverman's LTD of London, England has pretty well all the same stuff but it costs way too much. Www.military.co.uk (http://Www.military.co.uk)

Hope this helps a bit. Don't really know if I answered your question.

[garett]

Don't know how that last one got on there twice.

Just remembered, if you get anything wet, ring out the water then stick it on the back of your rucksack when you're on a march. The water will freeze into crystals and all you have to do is beat whatever was wet against a tree or a rock and the crystals will fall off and it should be dry again, but cold of course. I went to the Force Recon area to see what was already suggested. A gore-tex bivy bag is a must, if you can't get one use a body bag if you can get one from a cop or something. In my platoon there was a guy whose dad was a RCMP officer and he'd use a body bag. Never just put your sleeping bag down in the snow. When you get in you'll be warm and melt some of the snow under you then when your body temperature goes down the water will freeze again freezing your sleeping bag to the snow. Use a ground sheet or poncho to put on the snow to prevent this. Use the mnemonic COLD: Clean clothes, Overheating (avoid it), Loose and layered clothing, Dry Clothing. Bring some para-cord to put a line to dry you clothes on. Take clothes off when you get in your sleeping bag or you will freeze and die. Don't bundle up when you go on a march, its better to be cold at first. Don't warm up your weapon once its been cold. Cock the action of your weapon back and forth every once in awhile to stop it from freezing. We leave our weapons outside our tents so they don't get warmed up. The biggest tips are don't be lazy and be organized. Not doing something because you're too tired can get you killed. Keep your kit organized and packed away. If you don't someone else will take it and you'll be left without it.

[VMI_Marine]

As far as the type of training, all I know so far is that we're doing a ski-borne patrol (don't know distance) to a bridge, which we're going to recon.

[This message has been edited by VMI_Marine (edited 10-11-2000).]

[FNG]

Good gloves are an absolute must. Having a wet pair of gloves can be as bad as not wearing any. Some of the neoprene or similar synthetic gloves seem to work well as a liner.

Make sure your feet are well insulated and dry, otherwise you may get 'trench foot'. If you are wearing USMC gortex boots, it should be alright.

Finally, water in your canteens on your webbing may freeze solid, so perhaps a camelbak worn underneath a jacket/parka will work if the temperatures are not too extreme.

[MARK92A]

VMI,

depending on how cold it is going to be, the extreme cold weather mittens (Snotwipers)are the best to keep your hands warm, but they dont do much for dexterity. A step down from them are the trigger finger mittens. Just make sure you get 2 sets of the wool liners so one pair can dry out while you wear the others. Keep polypro or anticontact gloves on under the wool liners, and you will be ok.

If you are going to be doing alot of standing arround, the Bear suit is ok, but bulky. You Marine guys have the improved version of it, and that one awesome..

If you are really serious about getting some good gear, invest in SPEARS (minus the outershell,as you have goretex). Thats a complete layering system that is made of the best materials, but can be almost $300.

One problem with Camelbaks worn under the parka is if it breaks/leaks, you have a very serious problem.

For boots, the black or white VB boots will keep your feet warm without a doubt, but they require frequent wool sock changes and are heavy and clunky. (and no, you dont have to pump them up with air to make them warmer, a common misconception. Blowing them up actually restricts blood flow in the feet, and makes them colder)

The issue "Bosnia" aka Intermediate Cold Weather boots may get you by if it isnt too cold out.

I have spent lots of time out on FTX's in the mountains of Vermont while I attended Norwich University..

Minus 20 to 50 is bearable with the right equipment..



[This message has been edited by MARK92A (edited 10-12-2000).]

[King]

Although I have never experienced the military I do live in Northern Manitoba and have done more then my fair share of cold weather survival training.

I could go on and on but I'll just emphasize the hands and feet. Good boots and good gloves.

For gloves, like anything else in winter, you could try layering them. Wear a sturdy pair on the outside and have a light pair close to your hands that fit tightly (but not tight enough to cut off blood flow). Then if you need to do some detailed work with your fingers just pull off the outer layers and you'll have something on your skin but enough freedom to do whatever is needed. Especially if your touching certain kinds of metal in very cold temperatures (like the CDN. issue snowshoes).

As for feet. Don't overdue it on the socks. Quite a few people make that mistake and their feet freeze because of restricted blood flow.

Finally, a simple Thinsulate bella calava works pretty well. Get a good scarf to accompany it if you plan to be out in the open where the winds are high.

[Whatever]

1. Excellent recommendation on anti-contact gloves. I use the new army issue (brown) glove liners and keep two pairs on me (one will always get wet).

2. Water Bottles: The issue Plastic and Cold Weather Canteens won't cut it. Metal Canteens (German Bundeswehr) that you can set directly on a stove and wide mouth water bottles are your best bet. The best plastic water bottles I've seen are from "FORTY BELOW". You can contact them at (253) 846-2081 or email warmfeet@40below.com

3. Keep a piss bottle handy in your sleeping bag at night for those moments of quiet desperation.

4. If you "sleep cold" recommend that you get a pair of down or lamilite booties. Wiggys makes the best that I've used.

5. Keep plenty of "Lickies and Chewies" with you as you won't have a normal appetite and STAY HYDRATED-keep on eye on the color of your urine.

6. Apologies if you already know this stuff. Good Luck.

Mike W
Hypothermia Magnet

[This message has been edited by Whatever (edited 10-12-2000).]