Hazing.

[jasonh1234]

I haven't heard much about it recently but Ithought I remember hearing a lot about rampant hazing in the Canadian forces.
Just wondering what the full story is/was with that?

[TonyM]

Hazing? NCO's can't even make troops do pushups without being charged. If it's happening, it's only in the super-secret units that nobody knows about.

[garett]

The only "Hazing" I've gone through is my section commander getting me to go ask someone for a can of blinker fluid.

[Reverend B]

I think that there are still some poor, misfortunate troops looking for those cans of plaid spraypaint. Poor bastards.

[Cree Warrior]

I think hazing exists every where in society EXEPT the Army! Its an institution of society, which is NEEDED. A rite of passage.
ANywhere you work, live, study, etc. if the group is worth anything, will make you prove your devotion to that group, by whatever means it deams neccessary. Getting a B.A. for example is a form of hazing by mainstream society. They make you do all this unneccessary crap, just to be a part of their group. I could go on and on and on.

Sua Sponte

[jasonh1234]

Hmm it's funny. a few years ago I thought about joining the Canadian Armed Forces but right around that time there was some story in the news about some guy getting a bucket of piss, shit, and semen dumped on him in the middle of the night because he was the new guy.

TonyM: It's not really that "PC" is it?

[Enfield]

Jason - yes, it is that PC. Welcome to the New Canadian Army. A few hazing and sexual harassment scandals, one dead Somali kid, and *poof* there goes combat-effectiveness and here comes the Army of Love Peace and Happiness. Ok, it's not that bad - there's still a core of NCO that keep us trained.

Cree Warrior said it best.. we need a war to sort things out, unfortunatley.

Why not join the CF? Your in Van, right? There's a bunch of Army Reserve Regiments around, check them out. You want see what the Army is really like? drop by the Seaforth Armouries on Burrard St. after Xmas, talk to the recruiter and some of the guys, see what we do.

Enfield

[Cole]

Enfield
Good to see you got in with the Seaforths. I applied with the Westies and had a bitch of a time getting through the process... recruiters were 4 weeks behind, failed the hearing test (although the hearing specialist said nothing was wrong),went back passed medical, got sick for 2 weeks so it took a while to physical (I can't believe I was worried about the physical...the lady administering it told me I could stop exercising?!?)
I talked to my "Career Counseller" (I guess we don't have recruiters?) and she said the regiment should phone me at the beginning of January to come and be sworn in...
Do you guys think I'll do the QL2 during the spring...or is it too late. Judging from what you guys have said, I don't really want to go to that combination QL2/QL3 this summer...oh well, take what I can get.

[Enfield]

Cole-
Yeah, the transfer took a couple months to go through, but I'm in. Still geting used to the kilt and balmoral though..
I'd recommend going down on a training night and talking to the Westie recruiter directly. Bug him, ask him when your paperwork will come through. It may get done faster, or make him take an interest in getting it through.

Enfield

[Reverend B]

You are absolutely correct, Cree. Both the throat punching and the fact that hazing is part of society. I took it in my sociology class last year, about how people that have been "hazed" feel as if they have completed a right of passage and feel closer to the rest of his team. The harder something is to achieve, the more people are able to be proud of what they have done, are more likely to stay around and work as part of the team more effectively.
When I am leader of the free world, there is going to be a lot of throat-punching of the ineffective slobs that hold positions right now...if I can find there throats through all those layers of fat that they have acquired in their idle lives.

[Quimby]

Save me a few of the socialists.

[garett]

You gotta realize that the people who freaked out about hazing were the nerds in
school who got picked on and still have nightmares about it. The think that they've
gotten back at the bullies from their childhood and done the weaklings of the CF a favor.

[jasonh1234]

You trying to tell me you wouldn't freak if you got a bucket of some guy's jiz dumped on you?

The only reason I haven't joined the military is because it'd be a massive pay decrease for me.

[Enfield]

Actually..hazing may not exist, but some regiments have initiation rituals for each mess. I won't describe any on here, but some I'v eherad about might get the public a little riled.. but I'm in favour of them - as long as everyone does it, it's cool - as I'm the one that has to go through them.

Jason- well, if you have the time to dress up mannequins as SEALs, you can fit in one night a week one weekend a month =o) It's not full-time, and since you seem to have an interest in the military you might find it very rewarding.

Enfield

Enfield

[FNG]

That's right Jason. I wouldn't mind if it is a ritual that has been done on others before. It is a test of commitment. Do you want in bad enough to make a few sacrifices in personal dignity? Hazing is something that binds people together. If you are willing to go through with it, your brother in arms know they can trust you when the time comes. But if you don't do it, there will always be a doubt in their mind as to your level of devotion to them and the unit.

Also, the military isn't always about pay. You will never get as much money in the military as in a civilian job with equivalent time in, or equivalent demand. (In war time, there is probably a greater demand of a private soldier than there currently is demand for people in the computer industry. Yet their pay does not reflect that.)
Yes, pay is always discussed by soldiers... I mean, who wouldn't want more money? But at the same time, don't forget that joining the military is also about service to the country. To your fellow friends, family, and other Canadians. Take pride in that. It's a personal sacrifice that not very many these days are willing to make.

Joining the forces will give you experiences that money can't buy. Who knows, you might even discover things about yourself that you didn't know before.

Give it a try...

[jasonh1234]

Enfield: <blush> Yeah well it's not tooooo time consuming to collect SEAL gear off of eBay. If I was going to do it though I'd want to do it fulltime.


As for the initiation rights I could deal with that. But I'd rather voluntarily let everyone kick the sh!t out of me than have a bucket of whatever dumped on me. IMHO

[Reverend B]

Yup. Getting a bucket of jizz dumped on you in the middle of the night is just an invitation for that person doing the dumping to "eat" a sackfull of doorknobs in his sleep the next night...perhaps just a length of pipe would do. I have a feeling that it wasn't an initiation but an invitation to get out, for whatever reason. That guy was probably a perceived weak link in the first place. Usually the people that come forward are the weak links that can't hack it, therefore, they take everyone else down. Don't get me wrong, I think that it is nonsense when it comes to stuff like buckets of jizz or piss.

The initiation is somewhat of a bonding and an acceptance ritual. Like has been mentioned, almost everyone in a group does it, from a practicle joke to a physical beasting. Everyone but the military, anyway. There is nothing wrong with it, as long as everyone does it and some sadistic fuck doesn't get out of hand...everyone that I have gone through, right back to highschool sports teams, has actually been fun, or worth while.

[Mike]

well garett, the dorks, nerds and geeks are the ones making millions of dollars (salary/stock options/etc). Maybe the one you hazed and who left the next day will remember you, or buy your daddy's work company and lay off all of your family. And the ones that went through hazing are still have psychological problems/cannot resettled in civilian life/etc. Sure, hazing might bond together, but there are other way to bond like doing community service to killing 100 enemies to whatever projects there is. No wonder the Canadian Army and the British Army have a huge recruitment problem. The more hazing going on, the more disbanding of famous regiments. So what? Join the U.S. Army and see how all of you will get along with people of variety background, sex, race, etc.

[garett]

Naww I'm not talking about the crazy gross hazing shit I'm talking about the cry babies like guys on my rugby team in high school that wouldn't do our initiation which was a simple dive in a mud puddle. These people who won't do these little bullshit initiation things I don't trust at all because if they won't do this little insignificant thing then what will happen when I have to rely on them in a stressful situation. If they won't make a small sacrifice will they make a big one?

[Reverend B]

Have you been to Canada lately, Mike? Seeing how we deal with "people of variety background, sex, race, etc."? Being a white male of Nordic descent, I am becoming a rapid minority. I think that perhaps you are getting hazing mixed with some odd idea of racism. Hazing isn't racism or sexism...and I doubt that those people that where the non-hackers are running multi-million dollar buisnesses. They are more likely driving cabs or working at a fast-food joint.

[Mike]

Where did I correlate racism with hazing? The point is to learn to get along with others. Canada has a big brain drain, with the best and brightest moving south of the border. I've been to Toronto a few times. I really shocked many Canadians when they heard me speaking French. They thought we Americans are too dumb to learn foreign languages Tough.

[garett]

Yeah well you should of seen the weird looks my mom got a couple of years ago when she spoke french to me at Sugarloaf, Maine. I think if I went to Texas and spoke french I'd get some dumb ass questions.