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Local
11 November 2009, 13:08
My final project for Legal Research and Writing was an argument brief in support of the Derivative intent approach for determining what mens rea prosecutors are required to prove in aiding and abetting cases.

Considering the subject matter, the lack of a cohesive nation wide rule, and the fact that a large number of members here own firearms, I thought I'd write a quick brief on the subject for the good of the forum. Quick is a bit of misnomer, I'll be condensing a 25 page brief I just wrote as much as possible, but I'll also be explaining a lot of legal theory and jargon that I otherwise wouldn't have to in order for it to make sense to as many SOCNET'ers as possible.

Next Tuesday I'll go before Suffolk Superior court house to argue my side in a mock trial in front of a real judge. Practicing condensing the important facts and strongest arguments will be a great help to me, so please feel free to ask questions or offer feedback about areas I could be more clear.

The case is a made up fact pattern, but the law and legal analysis is real (and hopefully correct!).

This is not meant to be legal advice to anyone. Persons unsure of the legality of actions involving firearms should speak to a knowlegeable local lawyer. Local makes no guarantee's about the accuracy of his work (but I work pretty hard ;)) and this should not be construed as creating an attorney client relationship with any reader or responder.

The Question: Can a Defendant can be convicted under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1), via 18 U.S.C. § 2(a) aiding and abetting, for helping someone come into possession of a firearm if he did not know that the person whom he provided the firearm to had been convicted of a felony.

The Facts: Defendant Nick Hume is charged with aiding and abetting a felon in possession of a firearm. Defendant encountered a friend of his, Bones Darley, he hadn't seen since High School.


(dialog was written by my professor, I'm condensing it, but her idea of what two gangsters sound like is hilarious)

Defendant Hume: You look strung out man, whats wrong?
Mr. Darley: I made war on the wrong dog.
Defendant Hume: you should carry a gun man
Mr. Darley: I don't know if thats such a good idea, I just got out of a three month stint for hitting a bitch down at the post office. Besides, I don't got any money man.
Defendant Hume: Don't worry about it man, I'll get you a gun, just don't go doing nothing stupid with it you know?

Six days later Mr. Darley walks into a post office and after a verbal altercation with a post office employee, kills 4 employee's and two customers with the gun Defendant provided him.

Though Mr. Darley had only served three months - he had been sentenced to 14 months, making him a felon for the purposes of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). Mr. Hume did not, and had no reason to know that Mr. Darley was a felon when he provided the Gun to Mr. Darley.

The Laws in Question:

18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1): Makes it unlawful for: Any person who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year . . . [to] to possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

In plain language: It is illegal to knowingly possess a gun, either actually or constructively, if you are a felon (or fall within any of the other subsections of 922(g). The elements would read like (1) be a felon (2) Knowingly possess a gun (3) the gun has moved in interstate commerce.

Elements (1) and (3) are strict liability elements. This means it is not required that the felon be aware of his own felonious status, or the fact that gun moved in interstate commerce. (that last part is there simply because congress only has the power legistlate over that which the constitution explictly gives it power. Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce and things which directly affect it, not the power to police the states. Element (3) is what we call a shoe-horn element, its inclusion allows congress to regulate that which they would otherwise not be able to. Moving from the plant it was produced in, across state lines to the store that sold it, is enough to satisfy this element).

Element (2) requires "knowing possession." Our system of criminal code splits crimes into two parts. these are the:

Actus Rea: This is the actual act. Transferring the gun. Pointing a gun and pulling the trigger, driving over the speed limit, etc.

Mens Rea : This is the mental component. In American and British law most crimes require the state to prove a "guilty mind." The difference between murder and manslaughter frequently boils down to the intentions of the defendant when he commited the Actus Rea. A common example would be: (scenario 1) Johnny lives on a farm and frequently shoots at targets he places on piles of hay. Johnny points his gun at the target, intending to shoot the target and pulls the trigger. Unfortunately, Sarah, a neighborhood kid playing a game of hide and seek is hiding in that pile of hay. Johnny shoot Sarah and kills her. (Scenario 2) Johnny is shooting at his targets, when he see's Sara trampling his flower patch. Angry, Johnny points the gun at Sarah and pulls the trigger shooting and killing her. In Scenario 1, though regrettable, Johnny would not be guilty of any crime (assuming its legal for him to shoot targets in his back yard). In Scenario 2 Johnny would probably be guilty of Murder. In both scenario's Johnny committed the same actus rea, but his mens rea was different. In scenario 1 Johnny had no knowledge of Sara hiding in the pile of hay. He intended to shoot the target reasonably believing there not to be anyone in the pile of hay. In scenario 2, Johnny intended the consequences of his actions. He pointed the gun at Sara and pulled the trigger, knowing what would happen, and intending to for it to happen.

To satisfy element 2, the state has to prove the actus rea, that defendant possessed the gun, and the mens rea - that defendant knew he possessed it and what it was. For instance, if someone hid the gun in his backpack without him knowing and the gun was later found during a traffic stop, if defendant could prove he had no knowledge he possessed the gun, he would not be guilty.

18 U.S.C. § 2 (A) Aiding and abetting : Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.

The original statute was created to do away with the common law distinctions between aiders and abettors and principals. Section 2(a) is not a separate crime with its own distinct elements. Defendant is charged with assisting the principal in violating the principal offense. The language "punishable as a principal" means that a defendant who aids in the principals offense, steps into the shoes of the principal in the eyes of the law and is just as guilty, and may be punished the same as the principal. Defendant does not become the principal however, Defendant in our fact pattern is not a felon and therefor could not be guilty of being a felon in possession. By assisting the principal and providing the gun however, if found guilty, Defendant will be sentenced as if he was a felon and he possessed the gun.


Other laws I will mention in the argument:

18 USC 922(d): It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person (is a felon for the purpose of 18 USC 922).

Section 922(d) was added as part of the FOPA (firearm owners protection act). Section 922(d) was created to protect people like gunshop owners who sell firearms from reasonable mistakes. 922(d) is noteably different than 922(g) because (d) includes the language "knowing or having reasonable cause to believe." This is called the "knew or should have known" standard for mens rea. In order to find the gunshop owner guilty, the prosecutor would have to prove that the gun shop owner knew or should have known that the person he was selling to was a felon, as opposed to the felon under 922(g) being guilty without the prosecutor having to prove he knew or should have known he was a felon. Though I use the example of a gun shop owner, the statute is not limited to gun store owners. Theoretically any individual who transfers a firearm to another could be charged under 922(d).

18 USC 2(b): Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal.

2(b) is known as the "causer" statute. If you take a mentally handicapped person, and for the purpose of doing harm to a bank that stiffed you, convince this handicapped person that the bank is full of devils that must be killed and believing you they take a sharp stick, walks into the bank and stab someone - while you didn't provide the stick, you didn't 'tell' him to do it, and didn't yourself 'do' anything illegal - you still caused the attack to occur. The main difference between 2(b) and 2(a) is 2(b) includes the term willfully - again - a term requiring prosecutors to prove a higher standard of mens rea - that the person acted willfully to bring about the resulting crime.

wow. That was a lot. I wonder if anyone actually read this far?

The Derivative vs. Purposeful intent Standards

Interestingly, there is no nation wide rule for determining what mens rea is required of the aider and abettor to be guilty. Since the Supreme Court hasn't ruled on the matter and Congress hasn't modified the aiding and abetting statute to make clear which theory they intended, the various state and federal circuits have made their own decisions. Only decisions made by the Supreme court are "controlling" for all circuits. While courts in one circuit will examine how courts in other circuits have ruled on an issue, they are not required to rule the same way, decisions in one circuit are not controlling over the other.



The Derivative Intent: The mens rea required of the aider and abettor is that of the principal. If the crime of the principal does not require a guilty mens rea than the prosecutor should not be required to prove a guilty mens rea for the aider and abettor. The purpose of 2(a) was to remove distinctions and punish the aider and abettor as the principal. By requiring the same mens rea as the principal, the Derivative intent approach does not create distinctions which are not included in the statute and punishes the aider and abettor as the principal.

The Purposive intent Standard: Under the Purposive intent standard, in order to be guilty of aiding and abetting, the defendant must always have intended to aid in the crime. The Purposeful intent approach distinguishes the “intent to facilitate the commission of a crime” from the “requisite intent of the underlying substantive offense.” Under the purposive intent standard, aiding and abetting is always a specific intent crime, even if the underlying offense (like in this case) is a general intent crime.


After reading all this, understanding that the duty of the courts is to interpret law - not create law, Where do you stand?

Clearly the Defendant wants the court to adopt the purposive intent standard, doing so would require the prosecutor to prove that Defendant Hume knew or should have known that Bones Darley was a felon. On the facts, the prosecutor concedes the state can not do this. (for the purpose of the exercise we weren't allowed to argue that Defendant should have known, or should have found out about bones darleys felony status before providing him a gun)

The prosecutor wants the state to adopt the derivative intent standard. Not being required to prove a guilty mens rea makes their case much easier.

Where do you stand?

Next post I'll detail the arguments made by both sides.

- Local

Local
12 November 2009, 14:38
I realize most of this is pretty dry, So I'll give you a real life example of someone who got bit by a strict liability law - that isn't a gang banger.

Ex-Soldier faces jail for handing gun found in yard over to police (http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html)

now maybe he should have just reported the gun instead of brining it into the police station without telling anyone he was carrying it... but arresting someone who served in the armed forces for bringing a gun he found outside his house to the police station with genuine intentions to help the police / keep the public safe..

How could you get bit in a situation like this?

Felons aren't the only people that can't possess firearms. 922 has a whole list of restricted classes, including people that have ever been convicted of domestic violence.

Say you live somewhere where hunting is prevelant. You've known this guy for 10 years, you met him right around the time he married his second wife. He's got two kids with her, seems like a great guy.

He asks if you like hunting and the two of you take your duck gun into the bush and shoot some geese. On the way home you get pulled over for speeding, the cop runs both your DL's... and arrests both of you.

Turns out 15 years ago this guy and his wife got into it drunk one night and he was charged and convicted of domestic abuse.

The full text of section 922(g) states:

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person--
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien--
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that--
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C) (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

There are a bunch of classes of people are not allowed to possess firearms beyond felons. We all probably know people that we don't know because of some indiscretion in their past fall into one of these categorizes.

If you let that guy hold your gun, congrats, thats a prima facie case to charge you under aiding and abetting a _____ in possession in violation of 922(g).

Careful who you let handle your toys,

:frown:

- Local

Terminator2
12 November 2009, 18:04
I realize most of this is pretty dry, So I'll give you a real life example of someone who got bit by a strict liability law - that isn't a gang banger.

Ex-Soldier faces jail for handing gun found in yard over to police (http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html)
:frown:
- Local

Well, that's England for you.

Longrifle
12 November 2009, 18:42
"Bloody 'ell!"

Looks like zero tolerance fever has gone pandemic.:rolleyes:

sfmedicw9
12 November 2009, 19:29
Ahhh Local thanks for the law review


Acquitted in criminal court

Found liable for damages in Civil Court

Found negligent in the transfer of the firearm because he didnt exercise due dilligence AFTER he knew mr darley had a record

My opinion could change if I knew the state procedural laws for the tranfer of a firearms

Remington Raider
12 November 2009, 22:22
scienter, prosecutorial discretion, jury nullification.

J2S
13 November 2009, 23:25
Interesting question presented. I am a little out of my lane here (has been a long time since I took crim law) so please bear with me….Applying the mens rea required under 18USC§922(g)(1) to 18USC§2(a) seems inconsistent with the public policy behind the very good protections of 18USC§922(d). What public policy arguments are you citing in support of applying Derivative Intent? The same as for felony murder? While I acknowledge that there are torts and crimes for which strict liability is appropriate, how can you aid or abet (as contemplated under §922(g)(1)) without specifically intending to do so? Seems that intent should be a necessary element shown. Maybe the common law distinctions between aiders and abettors and principals were better left in place.

J2S
13 November 2009, 23:28
BTW good luck on your oral argument.

labman2
16 November 2009, 12:06
Well, coming from a lowly fed with no legal education, I'd say the critical issue would not be proving it up in court.

Rather, it'd be locating an AUSA who actually wants to prosecute cases. These days, that's becoming more and more difficult.

CarbineM1
16 November 2009, 12:27
Well, coming from a lowly fed with no legal education, I'd say the critical issue would not be proving it up in court.

Rather, it'd be locating an AUSA who actually wants to prosecute cases. These days, that's becoming more and more difficult.

BINGO !! Right answer lol, experience over theory wins again.

Local
16 November 2009, 12:58
Interesting question presented. I am a little out of my lane here (has been a long time since I took crim law) so please bear with me….Applying the mens rea required under 18USC§922(g)(1) to 18USC§2(a) seems inconsistent with the public policy behind the very good protections of 18USC§922(d). What public policy arguments are you citing in support of applying Derivative Intent? The same as for felony murder? While I acknowledge that there are torts and crimes for which strict liability is appropriate, how can you aid or abet (as contemplated under §922(g)(1)) without specifically intending to do so? Seems that intent should be a necessary element shown. Maybe the common law distinctions between aiders and abettors and principals were better left in place.

My personal belief's run parallel to yours. The professor placed on me on the derivative intent side sadly.

I received the brief written by my opposing party on friday and she made an argument very similar to this.

"how can you aid and abet (as contemplated under 922(g)(1)) without specifically intending to do so"

There is no argument that Mr. Hume intended for Mr. Darley to possess and carry a gun. Under 922(g)(1) this is the only intent required of the principal - the knowing possession. The Derivative intent argument basically says that true to the words of congress, the intent required of the aider and abettor is the intent required of the principal. Mr. Hume def acted with intent for Mr. Darley to possess the gun. Mr. Darley intentionally/knowingly possessed the gun - which is all that is required of 922(g)(1). Mr. Darley is not required to know his own felony status. The Derivative intent argues that the intent of Nick hume to aid Mr. Darley in possessing the gun is enough for a conviction.

Its not saying that if Nick hume left a gun on the table (a situation where no intent could be shown) and Mr. Darley picked it up that Nick hume would be guilty of aiding and abetting a felon in possession (though Mr. Darley would be guilty of a 922(g)(1) violation just by picking it up) - but that because Mr. Hume intentionally aided, induced Mr. Darley to carry a gun - he is guilty of aiding and abetting.

922(g)(1) +2(a) != 922(d):

This is one of the better arguments for the other side. Seemingly congress has contemplated this scenario and including the purposeful intent / knowing standard in the text.

I don't have a great argument except:

1. There are many more 922(g)+2(a) cases than 922(d) cases. Being fully aware of this, congress has never changed the 922 statute to specify that all cases with similar facts must be tried under 922(d). Because Congress hasn't said you can't use 922(g)+2(a) it is within the discretion of the prosecutor to choose what charges to file

2. 922(d) is for situations where there is a passive transferor and an active transferee. 922(d) was originally designed to cover people who sell guns. If you are in the business of selling guns and someone walks into your shop buying, they have come to you and asked for a gun. Much the same with a neighbor that comes to you and askes to borrow a firearm. In this case the aider and abettor actively induced Mr. Darley to possess and carry the gun. Mr. Darley did not ask Mr. Hume for a gun, Mr. Hume, over Mr. Darleys objections, procured the gun and gave it to Mr. Darley. The states argument is that it is situations like this that 922(g)(1) via 2(a) is used.

3. Section 2(a) of the aiding and abetting statute specifically does not use a word like "knowing" - Congress did not include a statement about the required mens rea. How, in Congress modified 2(b) - the causing statute - specifically to include a knowing standard. It would seem from these facts that congress specifically left 2(a) void of any mens rea statement to allow the mens rea to be read from the substantive (or underlying) offense.

4. Because congress did not change the statute to disallow 922(g)(1) via 2(a) prosecutions, because congress changed 2(b) but not 2(a), because it is the prosecutors discretion what to charge the defendant with, congress intended for prosecutors to be able to charge defendants under 922(g)(1) via 2(a) without the knowing intent standard.

Hopefully I can make this argument with a straight face tomorrow :redface:

- Local

Local
16 November 2009, 17:47
Interesting "points of argument" i've been working on....

- 922(d) covers "selling or otherwise disposing" ie.. a commercial component. (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person-- (classes of bad people) This subsection shall not apply with respect to the sale or disposition of a firearm or ammunition to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector who pursuant to subsection (b) of section 925 of this chapter [18 USCS § 925] is not precluded from dealing in firearms or ammunition, or to a person who has been granted relief from disabilities pursuant to subsection (c) of section 925 of this chapter.

- 922(g) includes no commercial component, but only has to do with possessing, recieving, transfering. In the "case" at hand there was no sale, Mr. Hume simply provided the firearm for bones darley to carry free of charge.


counter argument:

Verb phrase
9. dispose of,
a. to deal with conclusively; settle.
b. to get rid of; discard.
c. to transfer or give away, as by gift or sale.

Counter-counter argument: Nick Hume paid money for the gun, let Bones darley carry it. No where did Nick hume say "this gun is yours now, You don't have to give it back" maybe at some future time Mr. Hume was planning on asking for payment (then it would be disposing) or telling him "I'll never ask for it back, its yours now." The gun was expensive, I challenge anyone to show evidence that Mr. Hume intended to "dispose" of the gun (that is permanently transfer the gun) to Mr. Darley. Since when does one hood go buy a brand new gun and GIVE it for FREE with nothing in return to another hood?

He arguably intended to take the gun back when Mr. Darley was feeling better / no longer in trouble. Instead of selling or disposing the gun, he just helped him come into possession of a gun (922(g)) for an indeterminable amount of time.

horrible?

*sigh*

- Local

SOTB
16 November 2009, 18:02
Ex-Soldier faces jail for handing gun found in yard over to police (http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html) Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge – therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.

Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added....

....Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."MF'ing wow. WOW.

The same HAS to apply to the idea that if someone came upon badguys in the act of a Mumbai-type event, and managed to take a gun from them and utilize it ON THE BADGUYS -- they would be breaking the law, no?

Who the fuck can live in a society like that? What bullshit....

Spinner
16 November 2009, 18:12
In Illinois, it would be a moot point. Possession of a firearm requires an ID issued by the state, and selling a firearm to somebody who didn't have one would be a violation of state law, regardless of his status as a felon.

Since felons aren't allowed to possess firearms, they can't be issued the ID. The onus for actual possession rests with the felon, ultimately, since he/she should already know they aren't allowed to own or possess firearms.

Local
16 November 2009, 20:54
In Illinois, it would be a moot point. Possession of a firearm requires an ID issued by the state, and selling a firearm to somebody who didn't have one would be a violation of state law, regardless of his status as a felon.

Since felons aren't allowed to possess firearms, they can't be issued the ID. The onus for actual possession rests with the felon, ultimately, since he/she should already know they aren't allowed to own or possess firearms.

In a hypothetical situation where someone showed you a fake id card, would the onus be on you to verify the card as legit before letting the guy pop off a few rounds at the range? I'm trying to think of a reasonable situation that you would let a stranger temp. Borrow your gun...

- Local,

J2S
16 November 2009, 23:10
Interesting "points of argument" i've been working on....

- 922(d) covers "selling or otherwise disposing" ie.. a commercial component. (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person-- (classes of bad people) This subsection shall not apply with respect to the sale or disposition of a firearm or ammunition to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector who pursuant to subsection (b) of section 925 of this chapter [18 USCS § 925] is not precluded from dealing in firearms or ammunition, or to a person who has been granted relief from disabilities pursuant to subsection (c) of section 925 of this chapter.

- 922(g) includes no commercial component, but only has to do with possessing, recieving, transfering. In the "case" at hand there was no sale, Mr. Hume simply provided the firearm for bones darley to carry free of charge.


counter argument:

Verb phrase
9. dispose of,
a. to deal with conclusively; settle.
b. to get rid of; discard.
c. to transfer or give away, as by gift or sale.

Counter-counter argument: Nick Hume paid money for the gun, let Bones darley carry it. No where did Nick hume say "this gun is yours now, You don't have to give it back" maybe at some future time Mr. Hume was planning on asking for payment (then it would be disposing) or telling him "I'll never ask for it back, its yours now." The gun was expensive, I challenge anyone to show evidence that Mr. Hume intended to "dispose" of the gun (that is permanently transfer the gun) to Mr. Darley. Since when does one hood go buy a brand new gun and GIVE it for FREE with nothing in return to another hood?

He arguably intended to take the gun back when Mr. Darley was feeling better / no longer in trouble. Instead of selling or disposing the gun, he just helped him come into possession of a gun (922(g)) for an indeterminable amount of time.

horrible?

*sigh*

- Local

Not horrible. But can you assume facts that your professor has not presented you? Certainly goes to establishing reasonable doubt. I also like:

There are many more 922(g)+2(a) cases than 922(d) cases. Being fully aware of this, congress has never changed the 922 statute to specify that all cases with similar facts must be tried under 922(d).

You'll do great tomorrow.

J2S
16 November 2009, 23:30
MF'ing wow. WOW.

x1000


The same HAS to apply to the idea that if someone came upon badguys in the act of a Mumbai-type event, and managed to take a gun from them and utilize it ON THE BADGUYS -- they would be breaking the law, no?

Under that law, yes. In the instant case, it will be interesting to see how tough a sentence he recevies.

Who the fuck can live in a society like that? What bullshit....

Not me.

NWPTrainer
17 November 2009, 03:37
What part of "shall not be infringed," does the federal government not understand?

I saw the article about the Brit a few days ago, and it is stupid. If we don't start standing up for ourselves in this country though, we're well on our way. I'm not restricted by federal or local law from owning a firearm, but how can you be sure when you sell a gun to a buddy that you're not selling it to a "restricted" person?

Maybe I'm a paranoid fuck (Yep, I'm pretty well convinced of it), but it strikes me that making it so "dangerous" to sell a firearm to a friend or acquaintance (what if you sell it through the local Thrifty Nickel? Are you supposed to know if he's legal or not?), is a good way to ensure that people who decide to sell a firearm will feel obligated to do so through a licensed FFL, thus leading to the requisite paperwork being kept on file. So, when we DO get to the UK state, where apparantly, we need to be "for our own good," the feds know whose door to knock on at 0200....

Local
17 November 2009, 14:17
My opening:


1.Introduction

“May it please the court. Good afternoon, My name is Motherfuckin Local. I represent the Apellee Eastern district of new Amsterdam, in the case before the court today.

2.Issue

The Issue before the court today is Appellants attempt to convince this court to expand 18 U.S.C § 2(a), the aiding and abetting statute, to include a distinction between the mens rea required of the principal and that required of the aider and abettor when such distinction was clearly not included in the text of the statute by Congress and the Congressional intent of § 2(a) was to remove distinctions between aiders and abettors and principals. Should a higher mens rea be required of a defendant who convinced the felon to carry the firearm against the objections of the felon knowing the felon had just done three months in prison for violent assault, who provided the felon the firearm, for aiding and abetting a felon in possession of a firearm than that of the felon principal under §922(g)(1)?

The answer to that question is an unequivocal NO and thus the state respectfully requests that this court AFFIRM the lower court's holdings finding Appellant guilty of aiding and abetting a felon in possession of a firearm.



The job of the courts is to interpret and enforce the laws enacted by Congress, not create law where it does not exist. When Congress enacted section 2(a), the intent was to make aiders and abettors punishable as principals. The Supreme Court has held that one who had no guilty mens rea may be liable under aiding and abetting theories for the strict liability crimes of the principal.

Based upon these simple and apparent ideals, this court should UPHOLD the lower courts ruling for the following reasons:

- The Supreme Court's decision in United States v. Dotterweich established that aider and abettor liability exists for strict liability offenses, requiring no higher mens rea than that required of the principal. The element in question, the knowledge of felonious status, is a strict liability element for the principal in section 922(g).

- Section 2(a) does not include the words “knowingly” or “willfully.” Section 2(a) does not include any language to create a distinction between the mental state required of the aider and abettor and principal. The correct standard of mens rea is specified in each statute by Congress.

- Defendant Appellant, and the circuits that quote it, incorrectly use Peoni to support their case. Peoni does not actually speak to the mental state required of a defendant who aids and abets the principal directly. The case specifically leaves that open and instead speaks to the mental state required to be liable for the actions of a third party, or the natural and probable consequences of his actions.


Since there are no controlling cases in the Eastern district of new Amsterdam, the court reviews this case as a matter of first impression. Neither this Court nor the Supreme Court has addressed whether a defendant's knowledge that the principal was a convicted felon is an essential element of the offense of aiding and abetting a Section 922(g) violation. Moreover, the circuits that have addressed the issue of an aider-and-abettor's intent, within the context of a § 922(g) offense, are split on the issue. Thus Appellee respectfully requests that this court seek guidance from the the Supreme court case Dotterweich which speaks to the issue of mens rea required of an aider and abettor, and the actual text of Section 2(a), Section 922 and the surrounding statutes to interpret the true meaning of congress.


(meat of the argument on the three points)

Conclusion:

Congress made its intent for aiding and abetting to put the defendant in the shoes of the principal, and the Supreme Court ruled that defendants aiding and abetting strict liability crimes should be guilty regardless of mental state, and because Congress further proved their intent to hold aiders and abettors to the same standard as principals by not including the terms “knowing” or “willfully” in § 2(a) or § 922(g) For the foregoing reasons, I respectfully request that the Court find in favor of the Apellee For the foregoing reasons and affirm the conviction of Nick Hume for aiding and abetting a felon in possession of a firearm.

Thank you. The Appellee Rests.

J2S
17 November 2009, 16:44
Local - I do like the addition of "Motherfuckin Local". My favorite was "may I sleaze the court" offered by my trial practice partner in error. It did get a lot of laughs.

Spinner
17 November 2009, 17:00
In a hypothetical situation where someone showed you a fake id card, would the onus be on you to verify the card as legit before letting the guy pop off a few rounds at the range? I'm trying to think of a reasonable situation that you would let a stranger temp. Borrow your gun...

- Local,

I'm pretty sure it is, at least in this state. The seller would be on the hook if he sold the firearm to a felon to begin with, but he'd be on the hook either way if the FOID wasn't legit.

Although the first time I went to a range to fire a shotgun, I didn't have an ID and nobody really asked. Certainly not my friend, who was aware that I didn't have one.

That was many moons ago.