Infantry or Engineer??????

[pete]

Just out of curiosity, if you had to choose between Infantry as a career, of Engineer as a career, what would you choose?

[TANGOisinKOREA]

An Engineer for even the smallest company makes a whole hell of a lot more money than any infantryman I have ever met. Unless you meant custodial engineer.

Chas

So I would say engineer.

[pete]

no not custodial engineer, they have to much of a dirty job.


[This message has been edited by pete (edited 02-06-2001).]

[garett]

Well I'm going to assume that you are talking about engineer in the army not civie street. I'm also going to assume that you are asking about being an NCM not Officer. Heres my opinion on the subject. Since August my platoon has lost about 6 people that I can think of right now to the Reg Force. One to the Air Farce, one to EME, one to Arty., and 3 to RCR. We also have 3 on deck to be on the next Engineer course down the road in Gagetown. Two of the guys that went to RCR went strait into 2 RCR. One of them hates it already I guess. The 3 guys we got going engineer are going because they still want to be in the combat arms but not in the infantry because they don't see it as being a good long term career. Now even though I'm a militia infantry Cpl. and a wanna be/soon to be OCDT who wants to make a career in the Reg Infantry I still have to say that as an NCM, being a career infantryman is a pretty tough and often shitty job. It seems that everyone I know thats down the road in 2 RCR either loves it or hates it. Its very hard to stay in the infantry for a long career, both on your family and your body. When you get out of the infantry you are also pretty well screwed unless you've got some other kinda of education because Canada isn't the Congo, the private sector isn't really too in need of efficient killers. Being an engineer also has its downs such as going on tour after tour after tour. Well to a young guy that can actually be a good thing because of the $$$ and getting the hell out of Canada. But for a married guy it can be the end of being a married guy. As an engineer Sgt. that was driving the taxi I was taking one time put it, "Engineers are just glorified grunts...". But still the job conditions are better then in the infantry. Also when you retire from the engineers you'll have more skills that are in demand in the civilian world. Some of them high paying if you want to go find mines in some shit hole for the big bucks. I know I've basically just rambled on typing in whatever popped into my head but I hope this helps a bit. If this is the choice you are trying to make, put a lot of thought into it because its getting harder to remuster these days.

[pete]

the one reason i would probely choose infantry is for the courses they offer. the chances of getting into those courses are probely pretty slim though, such as recce, pathfinder!!!! yah right. I was going to go to the regs as a infantry man, but people all around me are telling me not to go infantry.....is it that bad? the combat engineers job is something iam interested in, i just have some doubts though.....

[garett]

I can see your point and its your future just make sure that you inform yourself before deciding. I'm not really trying to steer you in any direction, each trade has its merits.
On the DND website they explain in effect what the career progression for each trade is.
For infantry the advanced courses are:
Communicator
Reconnaissance Patrol
Anti-Armour Gunner
Sniper
Assault Pioneer
Mortarman
Section Commander

and the specialty courses are:
Basic Parachutist
Military Freefall Jumpmaster
Para Instructor
Helicopter Observer
Mountain Warfare
Desert Warfare
Instructional Techniques
First Aid Instructor
Rappelmaster
Unarmed Combat Instructor
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Instructor

for field engineer:
Radio Communications Field Operations
Water Supply - Advanced
Power Boat Operator
Carpenter - Field operations
Electrician - Field operations
Plumber - Field operations

and the specialty courses are:
Combat Diving
Parachutist
Soils Analysis
Explosive Ordnance Disposal
First Aid Instructor
Instructional Techniques
Rappelmaster
Unarmed Combat Instructor
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Instructor

I think its obvious that the courses for infantry are more attractive with the possible exception of Combat Diving and EOD.
I think you should kinda think realistically too. You should have a better reason for joining the infantry then getting on a recce course or a pathfinder course. A course is a course is a course. Yeah you might get a recce course but that doesn't mean that you're going to be in a recce platoon for the rest of your career even if you do get put in one in the first place. You gotta want to be an infantryman for more reason then just to have a certain badge on your dress uniform. How many people are lured into the US Navy because they plan on being a SEAL or the US Army to be in Delta Force. Of course if you were saying that you wanted to be a field engineer so you can get on a combat diving course I'd be saying the same thing. Its not impossible to get on these high speed courses if you work your ass off day after day. I think its time that you ask yourself some serious questions about your future. I might be getting alittle too deep but we generally decide the path of our lives in high school from my experiences. Where do you want to be in 20 years? I think if you can answer that question then you'll be able to decide if you want to join the infantry or the engineers. I hope you make the right decision because it can make the difference between your career in the military being a good experience where retiring at 55 is a difficult thing to do because you love your job or make your time in the military a painful experience.

[pete]

I hear what your are saying, i have know exactly where i want to be in 20 years, i will get there to. i hope to one day to have the opportunity to try out for JTF one day... yah i know what your saying, i still will try, and i am not just saying it. i want to pick the trade that will best suit me for my career with JTF. i dont want to pick a trade that will not benefit me. Thanks for the input. Later

[Disturbance]

any MOS can try out for JTF2 and any rank. You just have to have served 3 years. BUT that doesnt mean as soon as you hit 3 years your off. You have to be the BEST at everything you do and you have to have a lot of experience to. Personnally I know inf aint living the high life but I dont care about the money I want the experience first and when the time comes when money does matter I am either gonna try for an officer (if I still love it) or leave to the forces. I have already accepted that fact.

My advice: Whatever you do go balls out the whole time. Never stop and think about how crappy it is or whatever just push on and make yourself the best. And that is what you have to do - make yourself it. It doesnt happen over night and shit takes time so you have to be patient to. NEVER EVER quit cause the first time you quit its over. I admit I dont know shit ...but I do know that if you really think JTF2 is your goal then you have to both know and be the best. Those doors will open in time if you are deserving of it. That is just my mindset.

-Disturbance

Sorry if it seems like i vented or some shit. Garett you brought up some good points thanks for that input.

[Enfield]

Okay... don't join the CF for the sole purpose of spending your career in JTF. It's great to have goals, but try to be realistic. How many guys who joined the US Navy to become SEALs are now painting hulls?

Join for whatever trade you want, and join for that, not courses and JTF - because chances are it'll never happen. Whether you make it to JTF depends on YOU, not your trade. Ever hear about guy's who's trade is Caterer or Cook or mechanic make it in the SAS? There have been a few... I met a Navy Reservist who made it as far in JTF selection as a Reserve Infantry Sergeant I knew. The most common reason for failing JTF selection, from the stories I've heard (so again, it's RUMINT) is your mental health and emotional stability, not PT - anybody with some basic motivation can become a PT God, but having the right attitude is harder to acquire.

Now why just Infantry and Field Engineer? SAR Techs do more real-life shit than anybody else, and are very high speed. And I'll bet JTF is always hurting for medics... Clearance Divers are a very good option too.

You want options for civvy life? Become a military doctor, pilot, or firefighter - those are the most post-CF employable skills. And those Herc drivers go everywhere...

Just a note, I've seen a number of infantry reservists who, after a tour with a Reg Force Inf. Batt., decide to transfer to Reg Force - but as Engineers.

Enfield

[TonyM]

One of our guys has just gone reg eng. His best reason: You can have all the tours you want, and a lot of them are postings of just team size. That's the best one I've heard for inf vs eng. My motto is "The larger the formation, the less chance someone is looking out for my best interest". For post military employable skills, forget the combat arms. Go for sigs or some other high tech job.

[Disturbance]

Thats exactly it. If you are in CF to get a better career afterwards, INF should not be a high priority (unless you are going to be James Bond). I am at a point in my life where there are numerous doors open for me in both the CF and civvie world, but I am locked on INF. I could go on for hours explaining my personal motivations and whatever is contributing to that - so I wont, but I will tell you that -I aint goin it for the money, thats for damn sure. One of my beliefs is that you can take any situation and make bad or you can make it good. You should know very well before hand that goin into INF is not living the highlife. Cause if you dont know that and dont make the best of it then like garett said it will be a bad experience for you.

Enfield you said it better than I could.

-Disturbance
If you can concieve it,and believe it, then you can achieve it

[pete]

i choose infantry and engineer becuase they appeal to me the most. when choosing a trade i want to pick a trade that will benefit me the most when i put my application to JTF. Enfield what you said makes total cense. i never did think about SAR techs or clearance divers. i have thought alot about if i went to the engineers i would love to get into the combat divers. thnx for the input.

[farseer]

interesting conversation about the infantry and engineer. Just out of curiosity Does anyone know if there is an age limit for the JTF?

[Disturbance]

what is a combat diver anyways, or rather what makes them different from clearance divers?

[Disturbance]

I dont believe there is an age limit to get in I am assuming. You just have to have served at least 3 years. I would imagine most are like high twenties.

[garett]

Combat Divers Association of Canada http://www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC/

[Disturbance]

I dont get where all the info on that website is suppose to be. All I could on it were some messages on the board and some to other websites, but no real info on what they do. If you could tell me where to click that would help thanks.

-Disturbance

[garett]

Actually you're right there isn't much information on that website. I think a recent Mapleleaf had a bit on a recent exercise in Spain or somewhere in that region. Information on Combat divers seems to be pretty hard to come by, probably because they don't have much of a role in Canada's Peacetime/Peacekeeping army. My educated guess would be that combat divers specialize in demolitions in a maritime environment. Kinda like the SEALs but minus the whole land warfare thing. So if there is a bridge that needs to come down it would be a combat divers job to swim to it, then blow the shit out of it, then get back home safe. I saw some combat divers from 4 ESR doing practising something on my way home from CFB Gagetown this past summer. There was a black zodiac in the Oromocto River with a bunch of divers in the water around it. There are three bridges over the river within about 300 metres of each other so they were probably practising something to do with blowing them up. This would obviously be a good trade to get involved in but first you gotta prove yourself at the lowest level. The biggest tip I have for people that want to join the military is work your ass off on your QL2 and 3. How good you do on courses will chart the course of your career. If you screw up you can usually redeem yourself but your career will be that much better and more rewarding if you place high in the courses you take. It pays to win, everything in the military is a competition. Don't be the only one left without a chair when the music stops.

[Enfield]

They also do beach/shore recce's, measurring gradient and all that stuff. There was a feature in the old Sentinel about them - no direct action, sorry, though they can be armed for a lot of their stuff. Essentially they do engineering tasks under water...

Enfield

[garett]

Yeah I wasn't sure about the beach recce thing. I remember watching Forbidden Places when they had that exercise with 2 RCR and there were angry "civilians" waiting for them when they stormed the beaches. Couldn't remember whether the guy on the beach was Recce platoon or Engineer.
Hey Enfield I got a little story to tell you, whats you primary e-mail?

[Enfield]

I think the guys that did that beach recce (I saw thats show too) were Recce Platoon.
Also, the Pathfinders do Beach Recce and amphibious landing preparation too (well, the course teaches it and if we had Pathfinders, they'd do it).

garrett-
enfield7@yahoo.com