ALL CALL - ANY JONESTOWN GUYANA VETERANS?

[CB]

I want to throw this out since we have such a large numbers of varied experiences on the Board.

Does anyone have any in-country on the scene experience with the Joint Humanitarian Task Force established in mid-November 1978 for the purpose of recovering the bodies of the Jonestown "People's Temple" suicides from the country of Guyana?

In particular, does anyone have manifests, orders, etc. that can validate/dispute that a certain Army person was a part of that operation.

My research shows there were Graves Registration personnel from Ft. Bragg, some SF from Panama, some Aerospace Rescue and Recovery HH-53 Jolly Greens (from the 39th Wing and 55th Sqd); C-130s from the Air National Guard pulling a tour in Panama, C-141's from military Airlift Command, a team from Dover, DE; an ad hoc team of Civil Affairs, and others, including the FBI.

At a local Veteran's Day event here in Clarksville one "veteran" graphically described flying in on a helicopter, as jumpmaster for the parachute insertion into Jonestown, but having to abort the jump because he couldn't clear the DZ due to all the dead bodies on the DZ, whereupon they had to rappel into the site.

(Yeah, yeah, I know that's bullshit. I just want to know if this guy was there at all).

The high school girl who wrote up this guy's war stories won a prize from the local Kiwanis Club for her essay.

Also:

He also claimed to have completed Ranger School "on his second try, at age 29" when "after hours of chin-ups and PT in the 'worm pit' followed by "two hours in the 'hand to hand pit' the class was required to run one lap around the pit to finish, and he finished the lap first, earning the grudging nod of approval from the sergeant that would propel him the rest of the course. (Sounds like city week to me). I'll check his Ranger school claims on another thread, but for now I'd like to know if anybody has any hard facts on the Jonestown mission.

[MakoZeroSix]

I thought the SF team in Jonestown was a part of the CIA's MK Ultra program lead by Bo Gritz that had to come in and kill everyone who didn't drink the Kool Aid. :confused:

That's what I get for listening to people in bars...

[sixgun]

CB, I have no manifest from that iteration, but his story is complete BS.

I was NOT in Jonestown, however - I was in Panama at the time and did some support of the recovery operation. 39th and 55th guys - yes, Graves guys from Bragg, 7th Grp guys, yes. Rangers (or anyone else) arriving prepped to airborne assault the community - from a helicopter - no.

If he has a DD 214, however, it would show a Humanitaian Assistance Medal for that DTG. All the Army Graves guys (and USAF folks, to include loadmasters on the 141s, etc.) were cut orders for the HSM, so I assume whatever organization he would have been with would have done the same...

[Just Another Guy]

Yep, SF from 3/7 went.

[Spinner]

Here's a series of pictures I came across a few weeks ago, appear to have been taken by an Air Force photographer.

I couldn't think of a worse detail to be assigned to.

[Spinner]

Here's some more pictures from the operation, taken by the same photographer.

[P38]

Here are three links that may help you. The first one has details from a former Soldier who appeared to have been one of the first Americans on site. There was clearly a lot of space to land helicopters.

http://jonestown_remembered.tripod.com/theghostsofnovember/id4.html

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/jonestown/jonestown.htm

http://www.qmfound.com/jonestown_guyana_identification.htm

Other than 7th Group, I doubt any of the units sent there were Airborne. What unit was this hero claiming to have been in at that time? The easiest thing would be to disprove that the unit he claims was even there.

I graduated from the XVIII Abn Corps NCO Academy in October 78 with a couple of soldiers in my Platoon who were members of the 44th Medical Brigades Graves Registration unit. They went to Jonestown shortly after we graduated. Their unit wasn't Airborne. What they described after returning seemed impossible to believe at the time.

[RetPara]

I knew a guy that was a 11B that was with an infantry platoon out of the 193rd in Panama that went in there early if not first to secure the scene. He had a lot of pictures that I have not seen anywhere else.

[onnapoint]

At a local Veteran's Day event here in Clarksville one "veteran" graphically described flying in on a helicopter, as jumpmaster for the parachute insertion into Jonestown, but having to abort the jump because he couldn't clear the DZ due to all the dead bodies on the DZ, whereupon they had to rappel into the site.

I don't remember learning at Jumpmaster that dead bodies are a reason to abort a jump or would really interfere with executing a good PLF.

[NWPTrainer]

I don't remember learning at Jumpmaster that dead bodies are a reason to abort a jump or would really interfere with executing a good PLF.


No shit, right? Isn't the ideal that fire support elements would have pretty well fucked up everybody on the DZ anyway? I mean, "Shit! We can't jump! The Apaches and A-10s killed people! There's dead fuckers on the DZ! ABORT!":rolleyes:

[LRS Guy]

One of the pics has some gents wearing berets (not a SF flash) unloading coffins.

What a gruesome tasking, I think being assigned the Jonestown recovery would have sucked!

[NWPTrainer]

One of the pics has some gents wearing berets (not a SF flash) unloading coffins.

What a gruesome tasking, I think being assigned the Jonestown recovery would have sucked!

The FFL has an element permanently stationed there, I believe. 3d Infantry (or whatever the fuck the French call them), maybe? I could be mistaken.

[MakoZeroSix]

The FFL has an element permanently stationed there, I believe. 3d Infantry (or whatever the fuck the French call them), maybe? I could be mistaken.

That's in French Guyana. Jonestown is in regular Guyana.

Being in Guyana blows, but Kaituer Falls is probably the awesomest place I've ever been. It's in the jungle in the middle part of the country.

[NWPTrainer]

That's in French Guyana. Jonestown is in regular Guyana.

Being in Guyana blows, but Kaituer Falls is probably the awesomest place I've ever been. It's in the jungle in the middle part of the country.

That's right, my bad. I always forget there's two of them. Whoops.

[Psi Brr]

That had to be a life-altering, macabre recovery effort to be engaged in...

[BKK]

Your 1SG had to really hate you to put you on that detail.

Those guys have my utmost respect for getting that horrible mission done.

[P38]

One of the pics has some gents wearing berets (not a SF flash) unloading coffins.

What a gruesome tasking, I think being assigned the Jonestown recovery would have sucked!

I can't see the flash very well, but it looks like the 307th Medical Battalion. It had a white edge and a dark maroon background that was about the same color as an unfaded beret. In the 82nd at that time we had a special issue of two or three sets of Camo uniforms with green T-shirts that were only worn during authorized events field exercises or the Division review.

The uniforms reflect some minor historical details. The Army had just switched from green cotton fatiques that we used to startch heavily, to sloppy looking permanent press green fatigues. You can see both in the pictures. Personnel who were in Panama wore green jungle fatigues. In November 78 we knew that the maroon berets were going away and nobody bothered buying new ones anymore. The last day we could wear them was 31 December. As of 1 January 79 we had to switch to the green ball caps.

I found a link on CCT history that also talks about Jonestown. You need to scroll down to 1978: http://ccthistory.arrowmaker.com/THE_1970s.HTML

[HighDragLowSpeed]

Being in Guyana blows,

Amen, brother. Worst trips of my career...thought their Army was well disciplined though. The President at the time's wife was actually born in L.A. and she was pretty cool. Music was an interesting mix of Bollywood and rap.

5 star hotel apparently meant that there was power about 5 hours per day and hot water for a good 5 minutes per day.

Decent strip clubs. It's a bit sad though when the girls and beer from Trinidad were the highlights of the place.

Other than that, it was the armpit of the world from my perspective....the river where I spent time was so polluted it caught fire almost every afternoon and caused rashes wherever it touched bare skin. Of course, we had to use boats to go anywhere once we were at the place where we were working with the locals.

THE LONE EXCEPTION IS THE LOCAL GUYANESE RUM....no labels or brands...just "7 year old" and "12 year old". Both were smooth as a baby's bottom - by the time you realized you were drunk, you were already about 2-3 drinks beyond where you needed to be. We carried more than 1 person back to the hotel during those trips.

For that reason alone, I could at least understand why the pirates liked Guyana back in the day.

[Graphic Ed]

A friend of mine who was a helicopter crewman said that one of his unit's Hueys always had this weird, lingering smell. He later found out it had been used in the Jonestown recovery. This was in the early 1980s. If that's what that task did to the equipment, I don't even want to imagine what effect it had on the service-people there.

[MakoZeroSix]

THE LONE EXCEPTION IS THE LOCAL GUYANESE RUM....no labels or brands...just "7 year old" and "12 year old". Both were smooth as a baby's bottom - by the time you realized you were drunk, you were already about 2-3 drinks beyond where you needed to be. We carried more than 1 person back to the hotel during those trips.


You'll be happy to know the rum is still the same and just as good and cheap. I brought a bunch back for everyone. Also brought back a bottle of "de high wine" and made my brother and his friends drink it all.

It was the armpit of the world- although the International Hotel in Georgetown is alright. We did find an opulent resort totally by accident while patrolling the river down south though. And the falls totally ruled. Just goes to show- no matter how fucked up a country- there is always something worth seeing. That's what is awesome about SF.

[Just Another Guy]

A friend of mine who was a helicopter crewman said that one of his unit's Hueys always had this weird, lingering smell. He later found out it had been used in the Jonestown recovery. This was in the early 1980s. If that's what that task did to the equipment, I don't even want to imagine what effect it had on the service-people there.

I'll defer to one of the 3/7 guys that went for details on the ground. I was at Howard when they returned. That was my thought exactly when I smelled them and the aircraft. Quick story about SF being assigned to a conventional brigade. When we burned all the clothing and gear the guys brought back, I went to get gratuitous issue for personal gear, e.g. jungle fatigues, TA-50, etc. The Colonel on the pacific side initially denied it because "We are not at war". After I lived up to the "bull-in-a-china-shop" image, he relented.

[Jimbo]

THE LONE EXCEPTION IS THE LOCAL GUYANESE RUM....no labels or brands...just "7 year old" and "12 year old". Both were smooth as a baby's bottom - by the time you realized you were drunk, you were already about 2-3 drinks beyond where you needed to be. We carried more than 1 person back to the hotel during those trips.

Sold in the US as 'El Dorado' in both 12 and 15 yo varieties and very outstanding.

A good friend of mine was at the MILDET there recently. 3 year, unaccompanied.

[HighDragLowSpeed]

Sold in the US as 'El Dorado' in both 12 and 15 yo varieties and very outstanding.

A good friend of mine was at the MILDET there recently. 3 year, unaccompanied.


Always the skeptic, I took a quick online and found that it is indeed El Dorado. Thanks for that great info - we'll have to share a bottle if we ever meet.

As a result, it looks like my 21 year old Flor De Caña may get bumped from its perch as my favorite. The 7 year old guyanese run was as good as any rum I've ever had - I've got to try the older ones now.

from http://www.ministryofrum.com/producerdetails.php?t=41

The fertile banks of the Demerara River were cultivated by indigenous inhabitants long before European planters arrived in the 16th century. In the 17th and 18th centuries, more than 200 plantations produced sugar and rum in Demerara county. Demerara sugar was much sought after while the rum became one of the key ingredients in the Royal Navy Rum which came to be known as Pusser's Rum.


In the last century, the remaining Guyanese distilleries were consolidated by Demerara Distillers Limited on the site of the Diamond Plantation, and today operates as the sole rum producer in Guyana. With a production capacity of more than 26M liters of pure alcohol annually, DDL sell bulk rum to a number of international blenders and bottlers and bottles rum under their own El Dorado and other labels.

The name Demerara rum refers to rum produced in Guyana. The trademark 'Demerara' lapsed but is being reclaimed. In the meantime, a number of rum and sugar producers around the world have begun using the word Demerara in their product name. In order to protect their name, Demerara Distillers has discontinued the practice of selling bulk rum to other bottlers to be bottled as Demerara rum. Today all rum bottled under the Demerara Rum name must come from Demerara Distillers in Guyana.

Today, DDL operates a number of stills used to make a light and heavy type rums. DDL also operates the last remaining wooden still in the Caribbean.

As a side note, when I was deploying to Guyana on an occasional basis, the NCO of the Marine Corps Security detachment at the Embassy happened to be a Staff Sergeant. This guy had the best government provided housing for an E6 that I'd ever seen. It was a HUGE house right in the same cookie cutter neighborhood where all of the Embassy bigwigs lived.

[KidA]

That's in French Guyana. Jonestown is in regular Guyana.


Welcome to the Penal Colony of French Guiana whose prisoners you are and from which there is no escape.

First attempts at escape add two years in solitary to existing sentences.

Second attempts, add five more.

Of course, more serious offenses are dealt with in this fashion. (cue guillotine)

Make the best of what we offer you and you will suffer less than you deserve.


Best movie ever.

[Oldpogue]

Best movie ever.

Papillon. The book is excellant also.

[Hawkeye]

Papillon. The book is excellant also.
Yes it is, I watched the movie as a kid and then just happened upon the book. Great read.

[Spinner]

A friend of mine who was a helicopter crewman said that one of his unit's Hueys always had this weird, lingering smell. He later found out it had been used in the Jonestown recovery. This was in the early 1980s. If that's what that task did to the equipment, I don't even want to imagine what effect it had on the service-people there.

When we burned all the clothing and gear the guys brought back, I went to get gratuitous issue for personal gear, e.g. jungle fatigues, TA-50, etc.


I wouldn't be surprised. I've heard a lot of stories surrounding the recovery of bodies from Gacy's crawlspace outside Chicago, which occurred right after Jonestown, and guys would finish up the day in the house and the first order of business was to strip down all of the clothes worn that day, and just burn them.

The odor permeated everything.

[CAP MARINE]

anyone know how many CCT guys were there? i think my buddy was there?

[KJ]

The 55th ARRS was the largest squadron of the 39th Wing co-located out of Eglin AFB, Fl. It was a composite unit with, if I remember right, six HH-53's and four HC-130's. The 53's brought the bodies out of Jonestown to Georgetown for transfer to the C-130's. The C-130's flew them to Rosy Roads (sp?) in Puerto Rico where they were transfered to C-141's for the final leg to Dover. There were also 53's and PJ's at Jonestown that came in from McClellan and the composite squadron, 41st ARRRS. I do not recall any CCT guys being used as it was a strict rescue operation at that time. STS's had not been formed or even thought of yet, it being Thanksgiving of 78'. The hueys were part of the humanitarina effort after the body recovery portion.

CB - The original poser you mentioned is, of course, probably full of it. The 53's all had a complement of two PJ's, most all of whom were jumpmasters themseves. And we only had one flight engineer (they were called Flight Mechanics back then.), a pilot and copilot for the crew compliment. This was unchanged from the crew compliment of the the Vietnam war.

Why jump from a helicopter? There was room to land, of course, most of the bodies being around the large white temple building.

I do not wish to speak out of turn here. I was assigned to the 55th ARRS in this time frame, but as a newbie right out of PJ school, I was not yet 53 qualified and did not take part in the helo evacuation of the remains at Jonestown itself. PJ's were rotated from C-130 crews to 53 crews at that time in composite sqaudrons. Half of us, at any one time were either on HH-53's or C-130's. I was assigned to the C-130's for my first six months at the unit. As soon as you got to the unit you were upgraded to jumpmaster. That is one of the reasons why I was assigned to the C-130's at the time because you got your jumpmaster upgrade first from C-130's, then you got JM'ed for the 53's (much easier). (I got upgraded at the unit to Jumpmaster (as an Airman 1st Class, E-3) by, I think Febuary or March of 79').

I do remember having to fill out some psych forms for the next two years that would ask questions like: Have you divorced your wife recently? Do you drink often? and other shit like that...:)

[KJ]

Some great guys from this timeframe. Most, either got killed, got busted out, or worse; became officers. ;)

I'm the young kid in the middle row, fourth from the left.

I stand corrected by my CCT brothers; SMSgt Huddleston (big Al), TSgt Dalton and Sgt Netterville were assigned from the ALCE at Jonestown while a TALO officer and SSgt Witten worked out of Georgetown.

[OldSwabbie]

That was a horrible tragedy.. so many were devastated by the actions of that SOB Jones. Our brothers who had to do the recovery deserve alot for what they encountered down there. Doesnt seem possible it was that many years ago does it?

[CB]

Thank you to all who replied. I received several good leads. It appears that the veteran concerned was spinning up a good story, he is in fact a veteran, just not a Jonestown, Ranger, etc.

[SATCOM]

KJ, there's a few pictures a CCT took at Jonestown hanging up at the CCT school. Here's more:

1978 HUMANITARIAN MISSION

JONESTOWN, GUYANA - MASS SUICIDE LEAVES MORE THAN 900 DEAD
The bodies of 914 people, including 276 children, were found in Jonestown, Guyana - South America.


NOVEMBER 18, 1978 - JONESTOWN, GUYANA - Most of the dead - members of the People’s Temple Christian Church - had consumed a soft drink laced with cyanide and sedatives. However, the body of the People’s Temple charismatic leader, Jim Jones, was said to have a bullet wound in the right temple - it was believed to be self-inflicted.

The deaths are being linked to the earlier killings of five people, including US Congressman Leo Ryan, on a nearby airstrip at Port Kaituma. Mr. Ryan had led a fact-finding mission to the church’s jungle settlement - Jonestown - after allegations by relatives in the US of human rights abuses.

In 1977, Jim Jones and most of the 1,000 members of the People’s Temple moved to Guyana from San Francisco after an investigation began into the church for tax evasion. People who had left the organization told the authorities of brutal beatings, murders and a mass suicide plan but were not believed. In spite of the tax evasion allegations, Jim Jones was still widely respected for setting up a racially-mixed church which helped the disadvantaged.

Within hours after the incident was reported, a Combat Control Team was deployed to Guyana to provide communications and control as part of an Airlift Control Element (ALCE). Headquarters Southern Command - responding to a request from the US Ambassador in Guyana - immediately launched a five-man element to Georgetown, Guyana. The CCT from the 1300th Military Airlift Squadron (MAS) at Howard Air Base in Panama included Captain Mike Massengale (TALO) and four combat controllers: SMSgt Al Huddleston, TSgt Wayne Dalton, SSgt Leonard Whitten and Sgt David Netterville. They were first sent to Georgetown on a C-130 from Volant Oak assets - rotational aircraft from the United States – temporarily operating at Howard Air Base.

Lines-of-communication to the Jonestown community were virtually nonexistent and the Ambassador requested military assistance to fill the void. He needed a reliable communications link between Jonestown and the capital city - Georgetown. To meet the need, it was decided that Captain Messengale and SSgt Whitten would remained at Georgetown Airport with the MRC-108 and other communication equipment. While SMSgt Huddleston, TSgt Dalton and Sgt Netterville were deployed to Port Kaituma in the Cessna with portable HF, UHF, VHF and FM communications equipment. With no way to get to Jonestown - by road - the two engine Cessna was contracted to transport them to the Port Kaituma; an airstrip near Jonestown.

At Port Kaituma, Huddleston established a line-of-communication with Whitten
in Georgetown, using the team's PRC-47 HF radio. (Al Huddleston collection)

Upon arrival at Port Kaituma, Huddleston and his team immediately established HF communications with the Messengale and Whitten team in Georgetown; using their portable PRC-47 radio. Within hours, Huddleston and the rest of his team was again moved and airlifted by Guyanese helicopter from Kaituma to Jonestown. Upon arrival at Jonestown, Huddleston’s team worked with the Guyanese Defense Force (GDF) to determine the magnitude of the mass suicide. The preliminary body count was set at 750+.

After assessing the magnitude of the situation, Huddleston’s team then set up a control point and reestablished communications with the ALCE in Georgetown. A situation report (SITREP), including body count was transmitted to Georgetown.

Within hours, Huddleston’s team was then tasked to survey an adjacent airfield at Mathews Ridge for C-130 operations; the plan was to use it for body recovery. But, the airfield was soon determined to be unsafe for C-130 operations. Later it was determined that the bodies would be shuttled from Jonestown to Georgetown. As a result, Huddleston’s team was tasked to stay in Jonestown to control helicopter traffic and to maintain the HF communications link to the Georgetown.


Body recovery began on the fourth day after the CCT arrived in Jonestown. The US Army graves registration personnel began the process of identifying and bagging the remains for transport by US Air Force HH-53 heavy lift helicopters. They were first delivered to the airport in Georgetown and then transferred to C-141s for a flight to the East Coast Mortuary at Dover Air Force Delaware.

The body recovery effort lasted for ten days. During that time the CCT maintained the only communications link with Georgetown and provided air traffic control in and around Jonestown helicopter landing zone (HLZ).

The CCT was extracted by the last HH-53 – flown to Georgetown – then returned to Howard AB Panama by C-130. MMC

[MikeP]

Story from a SF guy I know is that efforts were stalled a bit by looting of the corpses by local military and others.

Ugly business.

[PACE]

Other than 7th Group, I doubt any of the units sent there were Airborne. What unit was this hero claiming to have been in at that time? The easiest thing would be to disprove that the unit he claims was even there.


The XO (1LT Russ Musser) and the Mortar Platoon of A Company (ABN), 3rd Battalion, 5th Infantry went to the camp to assist in bagging bodies.

I got to the unit not long after they returned from "Jonestown".

[Just Another Guy]

Hey, I worked with those CCT guys during that time frame. Super group.

[WS-G]

That's right, my bad. I always forget there's two of them. Whoops.Negative. There are three Guianas:


French Guiana (still French)
Guyana (formerly British Guiana)
Surinam (formerly Netherlands Guiana)

[rjreber01]

I was a member of the Co. A (IAbn) 3/5 inf. and part of the weapons platoon talked about in this discussion. I was stationed there from Jan. 1979-1981. I am really not sure what is in question for sure, but there was a small detachment made up of Lt. Russ Musser and a few members of the weapons plt. that went with the special forces unit to help provide security. I am still in contact with sgt. Bill Atkinson who was a member of the weapons plt. that was there .

[RGR.Montcalm]

CB,

I was in 1/75 at the time and we had absolutely no one go to Guyana.

If he claims that he was in 1/75, I'll drive over to your office and we can confront him directly.

This happened right after my son was born (Sep 78) and I can remeber thinking about all the dead kids and what the tropical sun does to dead bodies. ((shudder))

[Sharky]

CB,

I was in 1/75 at the time and we had absolutely no one go to Guyana.

If he claims that he was in 1/75, I'll drive over to your office and we can confront him directly.

This happened right after my son was born (Sep 78) and I can remeber thinking about all the dead kids and what the tropical sun does to dead bodies. ((shudder))

This thread is a couple of years old bro.

[RGR.Montcalm]

I knew I woke up stupid this morning...:rolleyes::biggrin:

[10thvet]

I don't remember learning at Jumpmaster that dead bodies are a reason to abort a jump or would really interfere with executing a good PLF.

There is a differance between jumping in combat onto dead bodies and jumping into a humanitarian mission onto dead bodies.

A body out in that sun and heat for that long just had to be a biological nightmare just waiting to happen if you were unlucky enough to do a PLF on one. I for one can see the jump being cancelled just for that reason...Not saying that the guy isn't full of it ...it's just my .02 cents.

Having been around a few recovered bodies and the equipment used to recover them...I can tell you that the smell is no joke and will linger. I can see where the helo would still have a stench after a few years.