Para Course

[farseer]

I managed to snag a spot on a para course coming up in Jan. Was hoping to get some advice on what to take beyond reg kit as well as prep beyond the obviuos prequisite pull-ups, push-ups, and situps.
Basically what does it take to do well?
appreciate any feedback.

[enderr]

In one word "GO HARD"!!!, err two words. If you can run and do lots of pushups life will become much easier. Also, pay attention to detail. The PIs will show you everything you need to know, and if you've got some budding squirrel who thinks they know it all trying to show you how it's done don't listen to them cause they're all fucked up. Unless, they're a JM or PI. The biggest failures come from PO Check Day, and mock tower. Remember what you're told, and Go Hard on the mock tower and you'll be fine.

[farseer]

thanks. i figure January is pretty much the worst time to jump out of an airlpane but hooyah, i'll take what i can get!!

[garett]

and just remember that we all hate you now...

[Marauder]

... a LOT. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif

Kick Ass, Take Names, and be sure to remember to let all us legs out here know what it's like.
Semper Paratus, bro!

[farseer]

don't hate me 'cause i'm beautiful ...
will do.

[para325air]

You boys got a Para unit back up? Fuckin Hooah!!!! Go get some.

p.s. I went through Airborne school in January, wasn't so bad.

------------------
Worldwide Service Provider, No Mission too Tough, No Sky too High, You Call, We'll Fall, 18 Hours or Less.

[This message has been edited by para325air (edited 11-10-2001).]

[cdn_airborne]

Ok, here's some things I picked up when I did my course:

Gel insoles (if you don't already have them) make your boots comfier, don;t wear your Danners or Hitecs, they will just draw attention you don't really want. Some people also say to wear biking shorts to cut down on chaffing from the harness, but I didn't really mind it that much.

Learn how to climb a rope if you don't know already, sometimes after your afternoon run you will do ropeclimbing.

Since you aren't graded on para and there aren't any comments on your course report (just fit for parachute employment if you pass) be the grey man. Don't bother being a leader, it's easier if the only people you have to look out for is yourself and your buddy. If you're the section senior you have to carry a key for the section and open the cage every time someone forgets something.

If you see something wrong with someone else after they've got their harness on, tell them and help them fix it. If you don't, chances are everyone will pay for it.

Learn how to do helmet pushups. If you are fortunate enough to be the person who just got off the racks at teh end of a torture session your reserve will be hanging by the two snap fasters, not secured by the waist belt. You can brace your arms on your reserve and stay in teh pushup position forever.

Work as a team. The PIs will try to trick you by saying things like, "Leave him behind, he's only slowing the rest of you down". At the beginning of my course they said to leave behind the weak, only worry about yourself, it's a contest. Of course this was a trick, you have to encourage the people who suck.

Pay attention to detail. When the Sgt leaves an example of how the kit is laid out on teh floor and tells you to put your kit on the floor, do it in the EXACT same way, each little string pointing in the same direction as his, the tape the same way, the snap fasteners right side up, the PELs folded teh same amount of times.

Stay near the front of the pack when your running. Never fall back. It's another one of those things that helps you not get noticed. If for some reason you have to fall back (like if you have to tie your shoes or run into the bushes to piss or whatever) run back to teh front when your done. Keep jogging if you are too weak , eventually they will come back to you. When you're running and you're coming up on the hanger or your barracks (like where you would usually stop), don't say something stupid or 'motivating' like, "C'mon guys, hurry up, it's almost over", because that is a perfect excuse for it to NOT be over. Don't anticipate it.

Hope that helps.

[FNG]

My buddy just got back from a jump course... here's his info.

You should bring your kit as per the kit list, but you will likely just leave it all in your room or car. They will probably issue you everything you need to jump with there, ie ruck.

Leave your helmet scrim and netting off.

Be able to run at least 15k. Be able to do lots of chinups/pullups. You'll need to pump them off everytime you go in the building... not to mention flight (the racks mentioned by cdn_airborne)

Enjoy the food at Trenton, but don't forget the evening PT as well...

Dropping in a snow covered DZ is probably a hell of a lot better than in the summer time.

Good luck!

[farseer]

thanks fer the info,
i heard they give you pre-weighted packs and life is all about the PT when your there. No prob, I owe the army a few thousand push-ups and pull-ups anyway (did fuck all in basic!)
hehe,Jan 16th or something like that is when i go,
appreciate the feedback.

[Ditch]

The food in Trenton is disgusting. Unless of course you visit the Officers Mess.
Beware of the rubber JELLO. JELLO is *THE* most popular thing there. They also have a chocolate milk dispenser, but try not to drink too much before PT. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[enderr]

Geez, have you been eating at the Staff College in Toronto, or you haven't been to Trenton in a while because in 1997 the mess was totally redone. The food is excellent when compared to Borden or Meaford, ughh. The quality is pretty similar to the new mess in Pet, it's just on a smaller scale because they have less people to feed.

[cdn_airborne]

I'd say the food is better than Pet, it's like family restaurant grade food.

[Ditch]

Well, I stand corrected. Last time I was there was just about 10 years ago, so I think you can all see where I'm coming from. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif The best mess halls I've ever been to are down in the States, their food is much better, and alot of them really do look like a restaurant.

Cheers!

[FNG]

Agreed... Ft. Benning: Ranger Burgers!

[garett]

When I was lucky enough to eat a meal this summer I was eating at the new Gagetown kitchen. I can't really compare it to any other kitchens other then Aldershot and the old Gagetown kitchen. I'd have to say its pretty good actually. I like the all you can eat ice cream, that really put the weight back on after getting out of the field.

[farseer]

someone should make a guide to fine dining in the CF, haha

[Infanteer]

The civvie chicks that work in the messhall in Wainwright are hot.

[garett]

Civie chicks that work at the kitchen in Gagetown are NOT hot. I saw the hot medic that checked out my ear infection this summer at the bar on Saturday night. I was going to go ask her if she wanted to check something else out for me. Then I remembered that I have a girlfriend.

[TonyM]

You should only remember that the next morning. Nothing like a bit of guilt to go with a hangover. Unless you wake up with one of those "suprisingly" ugly chicks......
...speaking of which, who was the UGLIEST skank you ever saw in the Army? (this should be good)

[FNG]

I just block them from memory...

[Enfield]

Originally posted by Infanteer:
The civvie chicks that work in the messhall in Wainwright are hot.

You were either VERY drunk, or your standards are incredibly low.

[Infanteer]

You were either VERY drunk, or your standards are incredibly low.

No way, there were seriously a couple hotties in there. As for picking up ugly civvie chicks in the mess, well, I won't name names (cough)-Disturbance-(cough)....

The skankiest chick I've seen in the CF so far...well, I'll have to think. I think this one chick from my QL3 section would take the title. Big fat ass, shaved head, extremely out of shape, and in the infantry to boot. All she would do is hit on guys in the platoon. The coup de grace was when she said she showed us her big, green thong she was wearing under her combats. I almost puked. We were so glad when she eas RTUed.

[This message has been edited by Infanteer (edited 11-21-2001).]

[farseer]

i have to agree with enfield, wainright chicks , with the exception of brandy the hot bartender (who doesn't like army guys anyway), are inbred 11-teen year old-cousin-lovers that have dipped one too many times in the gene pool.

but, of course, i mean that in the nicest way ...

[Infanteer]

Ahh...Brandy, the only reason for drinking at Tony's. Her biker boyfriend almost punched my out when I asked her to dance at JD's....

[garett]

Humm ugliest chick...........

Well a contender was one on my QL2, a french chick from up North. She was a mess, one day I saw her in shorts and her legs were super hairy. There was no excuse for that, I don't care that it was March and cold.

[Enfield]

Sorry, none of the messhall chicks were good. Any that were close were so underage even 3 months in Wainright couldn't make them attractive. And the ones that were old enough slept with the Brit cooks. Anybody catch the mother-daughter team at JD's? Or the midget?
So Brandy was her name eh? Never got to know her. Knew the chicks that worked in the restaurant part upstairs... Now the chicks that mowed the lawn at Wainright were nice. And the Brits - strangely enough - had some VERY nice young female officers... (who, after work each day would sun bath outside of their building - though I think they stopped when the same vehicles kept driving by)
Ugliest girl in the CF? wow.. so many choices. Well, there's a MCpl from a certain Lower mainland unit...A newly qualified medic I worked with this summer from Alberta... dirty dirty.

[Reverend B]

ah...shouldn't an infantry response be more like..."she wouldn't dance with me because I kicked her biker boyfriends teeth in when he got upset at the fact that I asked her to dance"..???

[Infanteer]

Hey farseer, you remember that QL2/3 Armoured Recce course with those three hotties. Holy shit, I almost rebadged to armour after seeing that one in that tight dress. How come the infantry doesn't recruit women like that?

[farseer]

i know, i can't remember her name. Armour had all the hotties. It seems the only girls that joined infantry did so hoping to lose weight. Although we did have this hottie in our platoon (Leone Forte) but all she did was flirt with all the guys thinking she was some princess. A guy almost got kicked off for fraternization.

if i remember correctly they had a bunch of C6's and .30 cal's we were drooling out our windows before thr FTX.

do you remember all the shit that went on with the Bold Eagle platoon. the fights and sexual assault. man building 599 (i think) was a madhouse.

[Infanteer]

Just goes to prove that all sense of disciple has left this Army...that building was like a fucking frat house all summer; music, video games, all night pizza parties, and guys and chicks all having a gay old time.
I think I need to go join an Army that remembers that its purpose is to go to war, it seems the Mo is becoming a big social club....

[This message has been edited by Infanteer (edited 11-22-2001).]

[Enfield]

Infanteer- you think 599 was fun, you should have seen the staff building - 626.

Ah yes.. the Armour Princesses. Didn't see them until JD's at the very end of the summer, and just about fell out of my chiar when I found out they were in the Army (Some black hat was bragging about them being in his unit).
I recall them dancing with a few armour guys.. and 15 Infantry types that were on staff (myself included) just standing around the dance floor watching - and a little pissed. Those three were definatley not liked...

[farseer]

how sad is partying in wainright, you go the bar 7 girls (2 under 11, 3 weigh more than you, 2 that barely make the 2 am special list) and about a battalions worth of guys with bad haircuts. lol... man, when i got back to calgary every girl was hot even the fat ones hhahahahaha

[garett]

Standards drop like rain once you move into a military facility. It just happens and I'm glad that I have succumbed. Hopefully I never do but I always have wanted to do it in a full battle trench. Thats probably just my over active imagination.

Hey Enfield, Pepin (ex-PLF) and Camron (ex-1 NSH) from our Machine Gun course are Reg-Engineers now. I was at their grad parade in Gagetown because my friend was on the course. I'm pretty sure that they're in Edmonton but they could be in Pet.

[Infanteer]

Ahh...shit guys, sorry I got off topic, I'll gripe on another thread, now...back to the skanks.

[garett]

I think that the hardest pickup would be Newfie Mo Infantry Pte. (male) picking up an RMC Ocdt pilot female from BC.

[Cbt Engr]

Originally posted by Enfield
Anybody catch the mother-daughter team at JD's? Or the midget?


You mean Bridget the Midget is STILL there? OMG .......
She's gotta be older than the last ham omlette ration I ate

[farseer]

haha, its strange how this thread came back from the dead a day before i leave. I hope its a good thing,
Jan 21 to Feb 9 in Trenton, leave sat 19 jan @ 1015 to Toronto.

hooyah, I'll fill you all in when i get back (for those who still care anyway) ...
All you need to get in is:
7 chinups (should be able to do at least 10 by course though)
31 consecutive situps (done the airborne way)
run a mile in less than 7:30 !!!

[Marauder]

.

[farseer]

seen ...

[farseer]

... and thanks.
GO MO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[garett]

Certain....positions....have opened on Jump courses due to 3VP being out of the country or in the process. If I wasn't in school.....

[TonyM]

Yup, our unit just got two slots for the Apr course.

[UberCree]

Now we'll see if there are any planes left for the course!

[UberCree]

You get your CDN wings yet Tony?

[cdn_airborne]

How many courses did they actually run in 2001? I had a friend who was on the double one 0103 0104 that was delayed because of the Sept 11 thing, but it was pretty close to the end of the year. Just wondering cause there's supposed to be 6, but I'm thinking only 4 happened.

[cdn_airborne]

"31 consecutive situps (done the airborne way) "

What is the airborne way? When I did my course we just did a normal sit up, the same kind you do anywhere else. The standards to get in to the course are a joke anyways (not the actual course, it's still difficult, I think 65/115 passed the double course at the end of the year).

[garett]

Right now I think that we've got 5-6 loaded on the 18 Feb course. Too many brand new Privates if you ask me.

[Marauder]

.

[Enfield]

"cherries"???????

[Marauder]

.

[garett]

There's a reason why we've got like 4,5 or 6 spots but I can't get into it. What pisses me off is who we're being forced to send. Since its a course running during two weeks of school only unemployed, non-students are really available. Yes I do have a spot and its still mine really if I want it but right now its loaded with a Pte. What sucks is if I went on the course at school I'd be skipping 5 mid-terms and a term paper. So these spots are only open to people who sit around all day with nothing to do. The large majority of people available and who can do the chin ups seem to be buck Privates. Theres just not really anything I can do about it, I'm already behind in university and if I went on this course then I'd be throwing away a whole term of school putting me a whole year behind. Plus if I hurt myself, there goes my one and only shot at Phase 3 as a reservist. In my unit it kinda seems like all you gotta do is get phase 3 and you'll get a jump course anyway. Still I'm pissed, we'll see what I can do for May when I'll be sitting around with my thumb up my ass.

[UberCree]

If your Pte's are the only ones that can pass the PT test then they are more than qualified. More so than ANY NCO or Officer that cant.

[UberCree]

You guys hear of any other crse opening because of 3 PP deployment?

[garett]

All the openings that we have are due to the deployment. The Privates we're sending are like the troops we sent to Eritrea, the only ones around because they don't have jobs and don't go to school. One of the Privates loaded on the course broke down multiple times on his weakass QL3, cried a few times, and agreed with the instructors that hes weak. A couple of them are switched on and in god shape. The good NCO's that we have are QL2 instructors. If we had 4-6 spots on a May course then we'd probably be sending different troops. I think theres a possibility that we may have Jump Master slots too.

[UberCree]

Whats the pre req's for JM?

[TonyM]

Cree-

I'm trying for permission to wear my foreign wings. I've been told that because there's a CF equivilant , the CANFORGEN dosen't cover them, which means I can wear the CF ones, per CFAO 55-10 but I'd rather wear the Dutch ones. Didn't you get equivilant status for your US wings? Do you wear both? We've got a couple of guys that wear 2 and 3 jump wings.

[UberCree]

Yup, I wear my US wings or Brit wings over right breast pocket, depending on how I'm feeling. Also depends where I'll be cuz theres same anal fucks out there that dont like to see anyone with anything they dont have.
They (Trenton) gave me white wings, but all these ex CAR guys kept buggin me so I said fuck em, they can keep the white wings and I switched to red.
Theres "studs" in jump Coy 3PPCLI that only have 5 jumps and maybe one or two helo refresher jumps and they wear white wings, Heh heh. No big deal. Tehy also get jump pay for jumping once a year so thats pretty cool!!!!!
I would like to get JM qualified though, except I HATE jumping. I'm one of those feel sick all week, cant sleep the night before, shakey knee kind of jumpers.

[cdn_airborne]

Yeah lots of guys wear foreign wings on dress uniform but unless you're in that country or assigned to them you're not supposed to. I hated the actual parachuting as well, the only reason I took the course was to get the wings (status symbol ;)) and do a decent course. I think you have to stay in jump coy for 2 years to keep the white wings after you leave. Even when you allowed to wear foreign wings (jump smock) you can only have 2 max. Total package has something like 9 foreign wings and he only wears his french and american master wings.

[TonyM]

Believe me, I've been all over this like stink on shit for over a year now. I've even got my lawyer to look into it for me. It's all legend and myth about foreign wings. Officially there are only two foreign qualification or specialist bages allowed for wear in the CF; Ranger and Special Forces tabs. However the CANFORGEN states "..the list currently includes.." it does not say anywhere that the list is limited to these two only. ANY qualification or specialist badge that has a CF equivilant is currently not authorized. Anything not equivivlant can and must be approved by the NDHQ.
Now all that being said, the RSM and CO have a say in this also. My RSM can, and first gave me permission to wear my wings locally. However, The RSS staff complained to brigade HQ, and this started a ruckus and well, now I'm wingless. My ammo now is that I was told to remove them because "there is an equivilant CF badge". I don't think anyone actually read the CFAO, and when I pointed out that if they consider it equivilant, then that authorizes me to wear the CF ones. Well now I've really stirred the pot. First I was told that to wear CF wings I had to have 5 jumps from a CF aircraft. "Fine" I said, "where does it state this?" Oh, man that caused even more shit when that was found out to be false. Some of the "requirements" I've been told have been pretty silly, "..it has to be a Cdn Jumpmaster..", "..6 jumps plus 1 night jump..." "you can only wear foreign wings on jump status in that country.." plus some more, but I've stuck to my guns and said "OK, where does it state that? Can I see a copy, please?" It's all boiled down to legends and rumours about wearing wings. The current regs covering this is outlined in CFAO 55-10, in part,:

SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES -- GENERAL
17. A CF specialist skill badge may be awarded to a CF member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists, submariners, clearance divers, ship divers, combat divers, or explosive ordonance disposal (EOD) members.
18. Members who have received military training or courses from other countries for which the requirements are deemed to be equivalent to CF training requirements may be authorized to wear the applicable CF specialist skill badge subject to approval by NDHQ/DGRET.
PARACHUTE BADGE
19. A CF parachute badge may be awarded to a member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists.
20. Members who have received military training or courses from other countries for which the requirements are deemed to be equivalent may be authorized to wear the CF parachute badge subject to approval by NDHQ DLO (Director Land Operations).
21. A student parachutist is eligible for the award of the parachute badge upon successful completion of the CF parachutist course.
22. A qualified parachutist will normally forfeit the parachute badge when:
a. after qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course, the
member refuses to serve as a parachutist;

b. the member requests to discontinue parachuting before completion two years of satisfactory parachute duty;

c. after volunteering for service in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, the member refuses to serve there as a parachutist after qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course; or

d. the member refuses to make a parachute descent at any time while serving in a position in an airborne unit for which the member is entitled to draw paratroop allowance.

So by being told that the CF course is equivilant, they have inadvertantly given me permission to wear the CF wings. Oh, man! did that go over like a dead nun in a snowbank! Now it's all gotten real silly, I can't understand why my unit is fighting me on this. I'd of thought I'd have their support. The effort gone into sparring about this is ridiculous to say the least. If anything, it'll pave the way for anyone else going on foreign courses. Bottom line: Don't believe everything you're told.
Now my unit considers me a "troublemaker" for doing all this, so all you guys owe me a beer for taking the bullet.

BTW- next Dutch jump course is :
26 May - 02 June 2002.

Airborne!

[cdn_airborne]

Well I'd have to agree with your bosses on this one, either the Dutch wings or no wings. Even though the jumps may be equivalent, you didn't have to do all the shit (PT) that goes along with the course so I don't think you deserve Canadian wings. It's probably too much hassle on their part to get them authorized for you and it would open up a whole can o worms if you were allowed to wear em, ie. should other wings be worn and foreign course badges like Guyana commmando course? BTW, did you jump from a Dakota or some other old plane like that? It wasn't a c130 was it? A couple of months ago I got asked if I wanted to jump with 3PPCLI on some extended Herc they were testing but they couldn't fit in a refresher course (even though i was current but they wanted to 'make sure' or some BS).

[TonyM]

I'll wear what they tell me I can. I don't think the choice will be up to me, but I'd prefer the Dutch too. The aircraft used depends on who's there at the time (German reserves use the paracenter too) and on the class size. . It could be a Russian Antonov (26 or less) or a Dutch or German Transall. I did the Antonov.
Interstingly, theres a big CAR flag in the hangar with signatures all over it. I'll scan some photos and post them.

[Enfield]

hmm... There's a WO in my unit who wears Brit wings. I'm pretty sure our RSS WO wears some foreign badges - French commando or some such. I never knew it was a problem.
What about foreign medals then? We have a sergeant who wears medals he got while in the British Army, why would that be any different?

[Jungle]

All this foreign qualification badges thing has been going on forever... The RSM of 3R22R in 1996 submitted a document, including photos, up the CofC for approval of most foreign qualification badges. It was later returned with a big NO as an answer... CAR pers were allowed wearing foreign wings on the smock, but not on the dress uniform. Myself, I am qualified as a US and British para, French Army "Commando Entraînement" and French Foreign Legion "Commando Guyane" (all these courses obtained while serving in CAR). I am not permitted to wear any of these badges ON my dress uniform, so I wear them inside my jacket. The main reason these badges will probably never be authorized wear in the CF, as stated before, is jealousy... Yes, some people do not have anything to show and feel diminished when someone else looks like they have been around a lot. Now the "updated" rules for white wings are: service in a parachute position for 1 year and at least one jump for exercise purposes (not the hollywood type). I know of a few people, (sgt / lt) who served in a para coy for a year but did not jump (gone on tour, course etc...) and had to remove the white wings and wear red ones when sent away.

[UberCree]

Tony, the Trenton centre now grants equivelency to all NATO Jump courses to Canadian wings. I think this was originally intended for super hard core studs (such as myself heh heh) that had prior service in US ex. 75th Ranger Reg't or British Paras but none the less it is recognized. It is my belief that this is the first step in eventually canking the jump training in Canada. Instead sending guys down to Benning for the 3 week course there, then granting them CDN wings once they got back (similar to the marine corps). Its probably cheaper considering the number of courses that actually run in Trenton.

As for foreign medals, they are only authorized if GIVEN BY A HEAD OF STATE. I'm not sure where that begins in the US medal hierarchy, but I cannot wear any of my US medals.

Mess dress is a different story, anything goes on mess dress.

[TonyM]

Yeah, while all this is going on, I'd thought I'll ask about being able to wear my USMC Pistol Sharpshooter badge. Of course they said no, but then I pointed out it is equivilant to the CF pistol marksman so can I wear that one?. Hahaha...talk about trying to put out a fire with gas! Jeeezz, what would those RSS guys do without me?

[Jungle]

Cree,
This practice is not new. I knew of a former Belgian paratrooper who was posted to the CAR in the late 80's and he was awarded CDN wings after carrying out some conversion training (in the form of a para refresher) followed by a jump at the unit. The authority to award the wings rests with CO CPC, but he may delegate this authority to the CO's of all units with a para component.

Tony, you should contact CPC (through the chain of command, of course...) regarding your case. It may be possible to arrange a refresher at your local (nearest) para coy to be awarded the CDN wings. Good luck...

[cdn_airborne]

On my jump stage we had Americans who jumped with us. They did the refresher, jumped once or twice and were presented with their Canadian wings.

[Jungle]

Yes, this is common practice. In the past, the CAR held an annual Airborne reunion, called the "Jump Bivouac". This was the occasion for paratroopers to get together, exchange stories, techniques, and the occasionnal beer... wow, seems like it's a hundred years ago, before all this DRY Bullshit. Anyway, I was JM on the Bivouac 2 years in a row, 1989 and 1990. We had jumpers from the US, UK, Germany and France. All were awarded CDN wings at the end of the week, after completing 5-6 jumps from C-130 (door and ramp), CH-135 and CH-147. I was awarded US and UK wings the same way: refresher/conversion trg followed by a few jumps, including a few balloon jumps with 1 Para in Aldershot UK, 1989. Also participated in Leapfest '98... always a good time.
Ubercree, I am sure you have jumped Fryar Field, you gotta hate that ditch running along the center line bearing...

[UberCree]

I've NEVER landed any where near the centre or anywhere near sand for that matter. Any time I've jumped there I've been able to find small pockets of extremely hard ground without any problems.
I never got to do the balloon jumps in the UK, but we did all the P Coy stuff, that was cool. Also used their LLP (Low Level Parachutes) which are awesome. I think they usually jump 750 with those (non combat). They are made to be deployable from amazingly low levels, not shure exactly how low though.
Jungle, how many jumps do you need to get JM qual'd?

[Jungle]

By the book, you need 25 static descents, plus recommendation from your CO. I am not sure how many JM courses they run now, but I think they are down to a couple a year. In the reserves, there's big chances only the QOR's get slots.
We had a couple of RAF C-130's and PJI's come over to Valcartier in Dec '98. They brought a few LLP's for us to try. If I remember correctly, it can be jumped from 250' in combat situations.
Balloon jumps were excellent, but the Brits got rid of it in '94 after D+50. Now, i believe only the Belgian and Polish armies use it.

AIRBORNE!!!

[Enfield]

Yeah? Well this one time in Wainwright on the MLicopter......

[bender]

Now that we don't have an airborne regiment, what do u guys think qualifies a soldier as airborne. I know a guy that says if he gets his jump course he's getting wings tattoed on his chest! The jump course is something like 2 weeks long if i'm not mistaking. I keep telling him that doing the jump course doesn't make him airborne, but maybe it does these days?!?!

[cdn_airborne]

The jump course is 3 weeks as reg force or reserve, plus there may be a precourse at your unit to select candidates. For the army cadet course they have their selection then a 2 week precourse run by PIs, then the 3 week jump course (same as Reg/Mo). It's your friend's decision whether he wants a tattoo or not, he doesn't need your permission. Quite a few people get their wings or the parachute and number tatooed on their chest or hand after para, its something to be proud of. The jump course qualifies you as a military parachutist, not a paratrooper, so I guess if that makes them "AIRBORNE" depends on your definition of the word.

[Jungle]

What's the matter Enfield, you don't like the "truckborne" ???
Of course, to be "AIRBORNE", being qualified basic para is essential. But being "Airborne" is also a state of mind, a way of life... to always go further, do better than everyone else, as in "ALL THE WAY!!!". I know of some people who are "Airborne" by status, but who don't have the Airborne spirit... Like I told the 1994 cadet pre-para candidates when they came back from basic para, they were still not Commandos. Yes they could jump from an aircraft, but they had not proved they could do the job AFTER the jump. So to all the "bar room Airborne Commandos" out there, relax and think about this: do you have that spirit, or do you just like to think you have it...
AIRBORNE!!!

[Marauder]

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[Jungle]

Thanks Marauder,
The vast majority of the boys from the Regiment went to the para coys. We set them up, and kept things going for the first couple of years. Then they started rotating us out to bring in young troops. They kept me in posn for 5 years, until I left for another coy at my request. I know of a few who became jedis, and a few others who left the CF. A lot of the boys are still in Light Inf Battalions. I don't know of any who left for the US or UK, but it is possible a few did.
AIRBORNE!!!

[farseer]

Well, I'm back.
passed the ground phase (we lost 16) but get this, apparently a herc was doing some sort of cargo drop and the winch used to pull the flaps back in (which incidently is the same system to reel in tangled jumpers bouncing on the side of the aircraft) broke off whatever it was attached to so they grounded the entire fleet, therefore our J stage is suspened until the next serial at the end of Feb.
what a kick in the nuts!!!!!!!!!!
they actually tried to get some US herc's that were in pet but that was a no go too.

ah well, been reading the posts and let me tell you I have no delusions of being airborne. There were only a few that knew the diff, this is a "BASIC" para which makes you a qualified military static line parachutist thats it.

[Marauder]

.

[farseer]

thanks marauder,
On the upside even if we did have aircraft the storm blowing through would have caused a lot of delays, fucking intense winds, although 2 feet of snow make for nice landings hahah.
the gist of the jumps is;
#1 - bareass out the door
#2 - full kit out the door
#3 - full kit off the ramp
#4 - full kit night
#5 - summer? kit out the door.

[farseer]

well, shit fucking shit shit shit,
guess what happend to old farseer on his 10 day journey in trenton with the hopes of finishing his freaking basic para course(the cursed serial 0105).
for those of you who've just tuned in, I passed the ground phase in january but had to come back a month later due to fucked up aircraft.
i'll break it down.
day 1 tues arrive, beer
day 2 wed timings, beer
day 3 thurs timings etc.'
day 4 friday refresher (god bless flight)
day 5 sat timings 0500 at hanger , jumping to today - oops come back we need to swap aircraft, OK back at 0700, suited up take off - oh no the winds are too high (need 9 knots for first) stop drop for the day.
day 6 sun - winds too high , refresher training(begining of fooseball world championship in JR ranks)
day 7 mon - winds/no aircraft, championship continues, AXIS and ALLIES tournaments begin
day 8 tues, FUCKING ANTHRAX SCARE, some white powder was found on the floor of the Herc (they use it to seal wwindows apparantly) fucking HAZMAT out there and all this other shit, we were quarantined for 3 hours in the hangar.
day 9 wed 0500 timing, in the air they almost didn't let us jump but quik negotiation in the air and jump 1 completed - bareass at 4 knots INCREDIBLE, everyone jumps - fuck jabbing, it was lika freaking abandonment in flight with the speed we left that plane i we were at a full run when we hit the door hahahaha(oh yea there is also 0106 course too now we have 70 guys to cycle through 2 fucking courses)
day 10 thurs we sneak a jump with ruck in, flight crew gets in shit because on of the a/c winch thing was fucked again, only half jump because wind picked up.
we are called in saying they are working on a/c one last chance
day 11 friday timings 0700 suit up full kit, fucking stop drop hydraulic failure, no jumps today.
thats it thanks for coming you all go home sat or sun etc and you are welcome to come back next course, ie. may which is fucking right in the middle of workup- i mean how many times can one guy get kicked in the nuts!!!!!! come back 3 times?!?!?!?!!?!
i needed 4 to pass and only got 2 jumps.
12 days 2 jumps.
well thats my rant.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Infanteer]

I can't wait to bug Sgt G about this one....
Shitty, now I can see what it is like taking a jump course in a third world military.
-sigh-

[UberCree]

you guys should've chipped in and rented a baloon or a small plane for the week!

[Marauder]

.

[farseer]

we damn near commandeered the Labrabour the SARtech were using, they were even trying to get hercs out of Florida, I don't know where that shit comes from. ahh well, our warrant summmed it up best when he said the airforce is poor and things are tough all over. when I get back from ROTO i'll definitely be stopping by Trenton,

[enderr]

my buddy was on the JM course that ran paralell to the Basic Para. I'll be sure to take the piss out of him this weekend.

[TonyM]

I tried to dig up some pics of the storm whem we were in Holland. Talk about wind! They were reporting it in Beufort scale. Blew in off the North Sea, everything was shut down for a couple days. Heres a picture of some of us at the Commonwealth War Graves the day after. There were trees down and all kinds of shit, but notice how clean the war graves are. I'm in the back, second from right. Cree: guess who the blond dude is with no headress.

[TonyM]

Here's one of the plaques from units who've jumped there on the wall above the classroom.

[TonyM]

Hanging right in the middle of the hangar is a big CAR flag. I tried to get a close up, but was using one of those disposable jobbies so...

[Jungle]

Nice smock there Tonym, is that proper dress in your unit ???

[TonyM]

Depends on what you're doing. We're not the RCR. If you're parachuting, nobody'll crap on you for wearing a smock, but then again you don't show up for parade in one. We're trusted to excersise common sense and so far everyone here is happy. I can't imagine what it's like in some of the other units I hear about. Some guys apparently get shit on for wearing a black toque or non-issue gloves.

[Jungle]

The Jump Smock is authorized wear for Para Instructors at the CPC. Even the troopers in the Jump Coys are not allowed to wear one. Imagine if everybody started walking around in kilts, the Highland Regt's would not appreciate. As for the black tuque, it's OK if you're armoured...

[TonyM]

I didn't know anyone was still authorized to wear them. Too bad because other than those fancy snaps on the pockets (which I might get replaced with reg buttons) it's a great piece of kit for jumping. The full zip up collar is a really great idea, especially when the weather was cold and shitty. Nice and snug around the neck. The yanks were wearing their gortex jackets and some guys hoods were blowing around their faces. I didn't bother with the crotch strap after the the first two jumps and it didn't seem to make any difference. The material is much better than the brit one.
Regarding the kilts, if you have a reason to wear one, being a family tartan etc, you can.
One of the yanks asked if I had brought mine, he wanted to make a jump in it. If I had, I'd of let him just for the great pictures.
If the smocks are still in the system, do you know if CPC has any plans on changing them over to CADPAT?

[Jungle]

Last thing I heard, the smock is being removed from the order of dress with the arrival of CADPAT. There are no plans to produce one in it. Maybe CPC were able to negotiate their way into keeping it for another while, but I doubt this would happen... after all, it was CAR Regt'l dress. To tell you the truth, we rarely wore it for jumping in the Regt, except for anniversaries or special occasions. It was more like the garrison dress.

[cobolt]

Just been reading your posts about wearing foreign badges on your dress. I'm in the UK and there doesn't appear to be a problem with it here. We have guys wearing CDN, US, French, Dutch etc. wings without question. If you earned the badge, sewed it onto your jacket then you can just wear it.

Just thought I'd mention how it is here.
Some great posts. Hopefully sometime I can get over the pond and earn my Canadian wings :)

Regards,
cobolt

[Bill P.]

TonyM,
In time why don't you get (Boris) to design a CADPAT para smock, with all the same features as the original (fancy pocket snaps,crotch strap, brass zipper etc..) and send a few to the CPC for "evaluation". After all what's the harm in trying!
I'm not sure but wasn't that how the original smock came into being?

[TonyM]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing. Cobalt: What unit you with?

[Jungle]

The origins of the para smock date back to WW2. The Germans first started to wear it as an outerwear over pers eqpt, including webgear, for jumping. When the CAR was formed, it was decided a smock would be issued. Three models were evaluated: 1 British, 1 Belgian and the Cdn one. From what I heard (all this happened before my time...) the troops preferred the Belgian smock over the others. But since the Cdn one was made here... you know the rest!!! :rolleyes:

[cdn_airborne]

There is a whole chapter in a book about the Canadian jump smock, I believe written by the guy who helped create it. In Eat your Weakest Man it tells how they wanted a smock for the Freedom of the City Parade in Edmonton so they ended up using DPM because it was what a Canadian company was making at the time (for some shit hole like Mozambique or something).The whole process took only a few months and the smocks arrive hours before the parade. Originally it was to be a Reg't kitshop item but then the gov't decided to pay for it when they heard about it (imagine that happening nowadays).

[cobolt]

TonyM, I'm in 4 Para (TA) just now. Planning on going regular forces next year.

[enderr]

I think I'ld probably get shot for wearing a smock. However on occasion guys wear maroon shirts under their cbt shirts. Even then guys'll get chewed out.

As for foreign wings, and this comes from my RSM, if there is an equivalent Canadian qualification, then you cannot wear it. So basically all you can put on your deu's is your ranger and specfor tabs, your SOA badge, and your pathfinder torch.

This only applies to DEUs because I've seen everything sewn on Regimentals. [brit,dutch, us wings, commando leader course badgel[a cool dagger that goes in the same spot as your torch], ger wings, you name it.

Our unit even chews guys out for wearing white wings. We probably do more airborne exercises than the reg jump coys, but the only guys in the unit who wear the white leaf did their AIC back in the day.

[TonyM]

QOR dosen't wear white wings? Don't they have a jump tasking or is that gone? Unless you mean non-jump coy?

[garett]

Thats pretty tight, our RSM trys to tell an LT in my unit to take off his US wings. All you gotta say if you're in officer is go tell the Adjt to tell me, then it all matters what your Adjt thinks. Ours is an RCR Capt with Wings so theres no way in hell hes going to say anything. I haven't seen anything on any uniforms in my unit other then Canadian and American wings and rifles for winning some type of shooting competition.

[Bratok]

Anybody can think of other points for a potential candidate aside from the ones already mentioned in the beginning of this thread?

[the_mook]

Hey bro,
Be aggrassive. The PIs wont shaft u as much if u show u r totally comitted and dont quit. Buy a pair of cyclist shorts. Trust me when I tell ya it'll come handy in flight class. By now u know mock tower is a maker or braker. Just swallow hard , and jab out hard!

Good luck!