8 U.S. KIA in Kost

[MoonDog]

Posted by CNN
KABUL - All of the eight Americans killed by a suicide bomber in Afghanistan Wednesday were civilians, and no U.S. or NATO troops were injured in the blast, a U.S. defense official said.

The attack took place at Forward Operating Base Chapman in Khost province, in eastern Afghanistan, said the official, who declined to be named. The New York Times was reporting that the bomber managed to elude security and reach the base's gym.

"We can confirm that there was an explosion in Khost province and eight Americans have been killed," a U.S. official said. He could not give any further details.


Aww shit. Bad news from the frontlines.

[O_Pos]

We knew this was going to happen sooner or later after the FOB Force Pro in this region was replaced by LNs...

RIP

[SOTB]

The New York Times was reporting that the bomber managed to elude security and reach the base's gym.Fuck.We knew this was going to happen sooner or later after the FOB Force Pro in this region was replaced by LNs....The 82nd was adamant about NOT using LNs during the '07 time frame. I mean, fucking "ain't gonna do it."

If you are correct, and this was the issue, you can probably expect to see TCns back into the mix....

[O_Pos]

Fuck.The 82nd was adamant about NOT using LNs during the '07 time frame. I mean, fucking "ain't gonna do it."

If you are correct, and this was the issue, you can probably expect to see TCns back into the mix....

Yeah...and I do not know for fact what security they currently use at FOB Chapman, but at other FOBs in the eastern region, LN PSCs have been taking over and giving all of us that "uneasy feeling"...

[18Dwife]

:( TERRIBLE

[5831lvn]

Damn...RIP...prayers out to the families

[John6719]

RIP

[killborn]

Yeah...and I do not know for fact what security they currently use at FOB Chapman, but at other FOBs in the eastern region, LN PSCs have been taking over and giving all of us that "uneasy feeling"...

I have over the last few months been involved in a number of proposals for FOB's and COP's in nasty areas and its not looking good, the way the RFP's are set up make things very difficult for PSC's. No room for TCN's and then low cost LN companies coming in at ridiculous rates. Expectations from military are not reasonable and much better security is required all round. Not good at all..

[SOTB]

I have over the last few months been involved in a number of proposals for FOB's and COP's in nasty areas and its not looking good, the way the RFP's are set up make things very difficult for PSC's. No room for TCN's and then low cost LN companies coming in at ridiculous rates. Expectations from military are not reasonable and much better security is required all round. Not good at all..Everything from having to have prior Astan experience, to the LN rates you mention -- hard for a company to make money on a TWISS-like contract, considering that TWISS (Iraq, with TCNS and Expats) isn't that lucrative to begin with.

Astan isn't Iraq. People SAY that all of the time. But I don't think they UNDERSTAND it.

Just as Iraq has it's issues, Astan does as well.

The concept that one could bring in Astan LNs to guard a location, and that due to some sort of tribal or even regional (if you imported them, say Tajiks to Khandahar) loyalty you would have solid support -- what massive fucking lunacy. Afghans have no loyalty. The word is unknown to them. They will side with whomever makes sense at that moment in time. To think otherwise is -- well, fuck.

RIP to the lost in this event....

[pollux23]

RIP to the families.

[SN]

Prayers for the fallen and their families.
I wonder if Kharzi is gonna publically announce an investigation? We need to stop pussy-footing around and either grt in to win; or cut our losses and leave.

[OldSwabbie]

I'm just heartbroken to hear this.. especially the circumstances in which it happened. IF it was local PSC they ought to take the guys who were SUPPOSE to be providing security behind a fucking sand dune and summarily EXECUTE the son of bitches.

I cant hardly say "my prayers" to the familes right now with all the cussing I just did.. but my heart is with them. Ill pray later on after I ask the Lord to help me with the anger I have right now over the inexcusable loss of these fellow Americans.

[eyezweat]

In a more perfect world, the occupants of a FOB should have "say" in who performs PSC........MHO.
This sucks, over contract dollars......... what's new?

R.I.P. Patriots.

[CDRODA396]

Rest In Peace to the Fallen...and thanks for their service and their sacrifice.

[heavyguns1/1]

Low bid bullshit.
RIP

[isamikec]

RIP to the fallen and prayers for their families

[medic99]

Just posted on MSNBC that the 8 killed were CIA.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34632936/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

RIP to the Fallen and Prayers out their families.

[MoonDog]

I think it's a bad idea to have LNs guarding U.S personnel against other LNs...but that's just my opinion.

And if the KIA's affiliation is correct...duh, maybe it was coincedence...:mad:

[random]

State Department confirmed it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8435502.stm

RIP to the fallen, and my prayers go out to their families.

[USMC_ANGLICO]

RIP Warriors!!!

[OldSoldier71]

Everything from having to have prior Astan experience, to the LN rates you mention -- hard for a company to make money on a TWISS-like contract, considering that TWISS (Iraq, with TCNS and Expats) isn't that lucrative to begin with.

Astan isn't Iraq. People SAY that all of the time. But I don't think they UNDERSTAND it.

Just as Iraq has it's issues, Astan does as well.

The concept that one could bring in Astan LNs to guard a location, and that due to some sort of tribal or even regional (if you imported them, say Tajiks to Khandahar) loyalty you would have solid support -- what massive fucking lunacy. Afghans have no loyalty. The word is unknown to them. They will side with whomever makes sense at that moment in time. To think otherwise is -- well, fuck.

RIP to the lost in this event....

RIP

I will only add that they are also loyal to the dollar. 10 grand to one of these guys will change his life...forever. LN security is part of the reason I slept 3 hours a night, with one eye open, for 9 months in A-stan.

[Hammer06]

Godspeed to the fallen...... 8 more stars on the Wall at Langley.

Having LNS inside the wire is ALWAYS a bad thing. Till the brass gets their head out of their ass and makes a "NO LN EMPLOYED ON US FACILITIES POLICY"; kudos 82nd, this is a serious vulnerability and has been. Until people realize that these people are not our friends, it's status quo. Over the course of several deployments, we had them stealing fuel, stealing ANA weapons, anything not cinched down or left out of site was gone. It wasn't until the police discovered one of the LN workers whom was sabotaging our humvees and Yotas left in the FOB during the day, that employing LNS was stopped. And that took an act of congress. (No balls chain of command) My memory is foggy, but I believe that particular oxygen thief was given to the Afghan Intelligence Service and was never heard from again. Too bad.

And damn good observation on the tribal allegiances, factions, etc. For those outsiders whom have not have the grand experience in Trashghanistan, they don't know. It's not Iraq. It's about as fucked up than a snake in a lawnmower. Rampant corruption, with everyone sucking the US tit, a stone age educational system, and a shitload of jihadis with access to weapons, drugs, and rudimentary tactics THAT WORK...... Makes for a pretty bad situation. That's why we have us trigger pullers to appropriately thin the population and re-educate the masses.......

[O_Pos]

That's why we have us trigger pullers to appropriately thin the population and re-educate the masses.......

:rolleyes:

[Sharky]

They were CIA Officers, not CIA Agents. I wish they could just get something right just once.....RIP to the fallen.

[tnkspe119]

RIP to the fallen and prayers to the families.

[troy2k]

It still surprises me that putting an ANA troop into flexcuffs for a security violation caused the hoopla that it did. DOD isn't drinking the Kool-aid, they are making the shit.

RIP

[paratroop77]

RIP

[airbornemedic89]

The FOB security has been LN's for 5 years now. So that has nothing to do with it

[MoonDog]

Brother, you just have to expand on that statement. It's not like Walt Disney walked in....WTF?

[O_Pos]

Latest report states that subject was not searched because he was being brought in by OGA as an informant.

Edited to add: I'd still like to know the thought process behind this, who authorized it, and/or the actual circumstances surrounding the security breach (i.e. if this individual was a pax in an agency motorcade and simply waved into the FOB, or if he entered on his own and the LN PSC was directed not to search him, or if the LN PSC just plain let him in on their own accord, etc.) Either way, I see it as a failure of the system for a foreign national to be allowed inside the wire without even so much as a pat-down.

[0699]

RIP Warriors.

[MoonDog]

I will now cut-away to avoid armchair QB shit because I wasn't in Kost, but as I fall away, just a question. If I walked in to Langley, I'd be searched, wouldn't I?

No LN envolvement?

[MP18D]

Ahhh, this news is such crap. There is no way anyone can excuse something like this. One of those inviolate procedures taught from Day1 is that Americans will provide security for Americans. Period. End.

R.I.P. Warriors



Mike

[CarbineM1]

One of those inviolate procedures taught from Day1 is that Americans will provide security for Americans. Period. End.

R.I.P. Warriors
Mike


We have long since forgotten that. To our detriment, absolutely.

RIP

[Blackjack78]

Latest report states that subject was not searched because he was being brought in by OGA as an informant.

Edited to add: I'd still like to know the thought process behind this, who authorized it, and/or the actual circumstances surrounding the security breach (i.e. if this individual was a pax in an agency motorcade and simply waved into the FOB, or if he entered on his own and the LN PSC was directed not to search him, or if the LN PSC just plain let him in on their own accord, etc.) Either way, I see it as a failure of the system for a foreign national to be allowed inside the wire without even so much as a pat-down.

It was probably as simple as they wanted him for a source and didn't want to offend him by tossing him, ya know, rapport building. RIP to the fallen. Prayers out tofamily and friends.

[O_Pos]

didn't want to offend him by tossing him, ya know, rapport building. RIP to the fallen.

I fully understand the rapport building aspect...but if this is the case (which I must note, has not been confirmed by the agency) there are other ways of doing it. Meet at a neutral facility; "accidentally" physically bump into the guy; the ol' "Everybody has to get searched...[Sigh] Yeahhhh, I know it's B.S. but it's policy" (which could be taken so far as the US escorts themselves being searched upon entering as well, etc.); and I'm sure we could come up with more.

I'm not trying to pick at anything other than to support and reiterate what MP18D said...Americans protect Americans. Period...which is all we can really rely on here...

[Blackjack78]

I fully understand the rapport building aspect...but if this is the case (which I must note, has not been confirmed by the agency) there are other ways of doing it. Meet at a neutral facility; "accidentally" physically bump into the guy; the ol' "Everybody has to get searched...[Sigh] Yeahhhh, I know it's B.S. but it's policy" (which could be taken so far as the US escorts themselves being searched upon entering as well, etc.); and I'm sure we could come up with more.

I'm not trying to pick at anything other than to support and reiterate what MP18D said...Americans protect Americans. Period...which is all we can really rely on here...

I'm tracking w/you brother. We're on the same page, I was just saying it was probably that simple.

[O_Pos]

I'm tracking w/you brother. We're on the same page, I was just saying it was probably that simple.

Roger.

[SOTB]

I was just saying it was probably that simple.I agree.

I do wonder how long it will be before the connect-the-dots comments occur with regards to other incidents of sources pulling shit upon arrival at their meeting. Personally, hey -- it is over. Fucking sucks that it happened, but dwelling on that shit won't bring those dead back or fix the wounded.

I do think we need to be cognizant that the badguys really are the badguys, though. Trust 'em as far as you can throw them attitude.

I also still think Aghan LNs on the wire -- well, I don't agree with it (even though it looks like it has nothing to do with this incident)....

[Blackjack78]

I agree.

I do wonder how long it will be before the connect-the-dots comments occur with regards to other incidents of sources pulling shit upon arrival at their meeting. Personally, hey -- it is over. Fucking sucks that it happened, but dwelling on that shit won't bring those dead back or fix the wounded.

I do think we need to be cognizant that the badguys really are the badguys, though. Trust 'em as far as you can throw them attitude.

I also still think Aghan LNs on the wire -- well, I don't agree with it (even though it looks like it has nothing to do with this incident)....

I see it on my side of the fence. Folks think sources are their friend. I shakem down whenever we meet and I let em know its just business.

[Decon]

RIP

[Purple36]

WASHINGTON – The suicide bomber who killed seven CIA employees at a remote outpost in southeastern Afghanistan had been invited onto the base and had not been searched, two former U.S. officials told The Associated Press on Thursday
A former senior intelligence official says the man was being courted as an informant and that it was the first time he had been brought inside the camp. An experienced CIA debriefer came from Kabul for the meeting, suggesting that the purpose was to gain intelligence, the official said.
The former intelligence official and another former official with knowledge of the attack spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
The CIA would not confirm the details, and said it was still gathering evidence on the incident.
"It's far too early to draw conclusions about something that happened just yesterday," said spokesman George Little.
A separate U.S. official suggested the bomber may have set off the explosives as he was about to be searched.
The bombing on Wednesday dealt a blow to the tight-knit spy agency. Among those killed was the chief of the CIA post, whom former officials identified as a mother of three. Six more agency personnel were wounded in what was considered the most lethal attack for the CIA since the war in Afghanistan began in 2001 and possibly even since the 1983 embassy bombing in Beirut.
It also was the single deadliest attack for Americans in Afghanistan since eight soldiers were killed in an insurgent attack on a base in the east on Oct. 3.
President Barack Obama and CIA Director Leon Panetta were joined by several leading lawmakers on Thursday in praising agency employees for their work.
"Those who fell yesterday were far from home and close to the enemy, doing the hard work that must be done to protect our country from terrorism," Panetta said in a statement confirming the deaths. "We owe them our deepest gratitude, and we pledge to them and their families that we will never cease fighting for the cause to which they dedicated their lives — a safer America."
In a letter to CIA employees, Obama said their fallen colleagues came from a "long line of patriots" who had helped to keep the nation safe despite grave risks.
Obama acknowledged that the spy agency has been tested "as never before" since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, who chairs the House committee that oversees intelligence, said he had met with members of the CIA team in a recent visit to Afghanistan. Reyes said the nation owes them "a great debt."
"They will forever be in my mind," he said.
The CIA did not release information about the victims, citing the sensitivity of their mission and other ongoing operations.
According to one former agency employee, the death toll represents a significant portion of the CIA's clandestine force in the region, but is unlikely to cripple the agency because so many of its employees have experience in Afghanistan.
"The bench is deeper in Afghanistan than it is anywhere in the world," the former employee said.

The bigger question for CIA operations will probably be whether the agency moves to tighten safety rules for its employees, the former employee said.
The incident occurred at a former military base on the edge of Khost city, the capital of Khost province which borders Pakistan and is a Taliban stronghold.
The Taliban claimed responsibility.
Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said in a statement that an Afghan National Army officer wearing a suicide vest entered the base and blew himself up inside the gym. A U.S. official briefed on the blast also said it took place in the gym.
Forward Operating Base Chapman used to be a military facility base but was later turned into a CIA base, according to a U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.
Only four known CIA operatives have been killed in Afghanistan since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the U.S. CIA officer Micheal "Mike" Spann was killed in a prison uprising in November 2001. An agency officer died in a training exercise in 2003, and two contractors operating out of a CIA base in Shkin district of Paktika province were killed the same year.

[BKK]

At least this is out there being talked about now....


After CIA Deaths, Should Afghans Guard US Bases?

(Jan. 1) -- In 2004, an Iraqi national walked into a dining facility on a U.S. military base in Mosul and detonated a bomb that killed 22 people. Wednesday's suicide bombing at a U.S. military outpost in eastern Afghanistan echoes the 2004 bombing, which was, at the time, one of the deadliest attacks on U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

The attack, which occurred on Forward Operating Base Chapman in Khost province, killed seven CIA employees and is the second deadliest single incident in the agency's history (the deadliest was the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut). With an investigation already under way, the question now is whether the attacker was an Afghan soldier who used his status to gain access to the base.

The Khost bombing comes at a pivotal time: The Army this week announced a competition to provide private security for another base in eastern Afghanistan, in Gardez. The announcement, released Dec. 28, calls on potential bidders to maximize their use of Afghans, particularly from the surrounding region.

"[T]he contractor shall hire a minimum of 75% of its guard force from within a 50 kilometer radius of the location requiring security; subcontracting opportunities will also be afforded to those companies within 50 kilometers of the location requiring security," the announcement states. The Army also says that getting tribal elders to accept the hiring plan is essential.

It's not just the U.S. military that is urging contractors to hire Afghans rather than Americans or third-country nationals. Congress has also told the Pentagon to rely more on Afghan national workers for contracting jobs.

Relying on Afghans for security and other base work comes after years of controversy over private security work in Iraq. After the Marez attack, which was reputedly carried out by an Iraqi working on the base, private contractors moved heavily toward relying on third-country nationals for labor and security.

Security companies actually prefer to hire Afghans when possible, according to Doug Brooks, president of the International Peace Operations Association, which represents private security contractors. Hiring Afghans is cheaper and makes more sense for perimeter security, because they speak the local language, Brooks argues.

But after the dining facility bombing in Iraq, it became much harder for companies to employ Iraqis in any capacity. "At that point, the U.S. government made it difficult to bring nationals on bases," Brooks says.

According to Brooks, the concern now is that the bombing in Khost could have a similar effect, pushing the military to move away from having Afghans guarding bases. "I think that would be a huge mistake," he says.

[SOTB]

The Army this week announced a competition to provide private security for another base in eastern Afghanistan, in Gardez. The announcement, released Dec. 28, calls on potential bidders to maximize their use of Afghans, particularly from the surrounding region.

"The contractor shall hire a minimum of 75% of its guard force from within a 50 kilometer radius of the location requiring security; subcontracting opportunities will also be afforded to those companies within 50 kilometers of the location requiring security," the announcement states. The Army also says that getting tribal elders to accept the hiring plan is essential....Except for the last emboldened portion, this has been the wording in all of the other static FP security contracts I saw for US Army bases in Astan (well, at least since '06). I remember the one up at Korengal -- same shit. Oh yeah, no chance on THOSE guys being either sympathetic or intimidated by local hostile forces.

Do you need, or want those types of guys? Fuck yeah. Do you want them to be your primary line of defense? I don't see how....

[Sharky]

Agree with the need to hire locals to do work of some sort but not sure if letting them run our security is such a great idea.

[O_Pos]

sucks that it happened, but dwelling on that shit won't bring those dead back or fix the wounded

Yeah. Agreed. I'm off my soapbox now that I slept this all off...

Prayers out the the families.

Still think LN security is a bad idea, although I understand the theoretical aspect of putting the local population to work as part of the "hearts and minds" campaign. If this --Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said in a statement that an Afghan National Army officer wearing a suicide vest entered the base and blew himself up inside the gym.-- is true, there's not much that could have been really been done about it anyway. It's just part of the game.

:mad:

[BKK]

This incident illustrates one probem with having locals guarding your perimeter. In their culture there is a vast divide between an Officer and a lowly guard. Their culture is normally not to challenge someone of higher status. Using a local "Officer" as a suicide bomber definately enhances the probability of nobody bothering him.

[SOTB]

This incident illustrates one probem with having locals guarding your perimeter....From what has been published, I don't think the guard force appears to have had anything to do with the situation.

I still think having LN guards as your primary defense force is not a great idea, though....

[Blackjack78]

What folks are missing here is, this murderer was invited in. The man didn't breach security.

[Sharky]

Even if he was invited in for a meet, he still should have been searched head to toe prior to getting past an ECP.

[SOTB]

Even if he was invited in for a meet, he still should have been searched head to toe prior to getting past an ECP.+1000 I imagine there are a number of people close to the people involved who are saying similar comments -- or I want to believe there are. Hell, ASSuming he was picked up at some other location, I would want to believe the same philosophy applies before bringing him into contact with larger numbers of the group.

Man, 7-8 KIAs and another half-dozen injured. That is potentially centuries of experience and training that has to be replaced. Very costly....

[Blackjack78]

Even if he was invited in for a meet, he still should have been searched head to toe prior to getting past an ECP.

I won't monday morning QB this and I have not had boots on the ground at that base. I would imagine that he was probably escorted there by OGA, and would have bypassed the toss. I know it's an assumption on my part.

[GackMan]

The fact that the CIA is openly admitting the Taliban got to these guys is a fucking goat screw all by itself... That entire FOB will now need to pack up and move.

[Sharky]

I won't monday morning QB this and I have not had boots on the ground at that base. I would imagine that he was probably escorted there by OGA, and would have bypassed the toss. I know it's an assumption on my part.


I would say more likely that he was brought in by someone else and skipped the toss by pulling rank on the guards at the ECP. Just a guess on my part. My experience has been that the normal OGA guys (with a few exceptions) dont get off the FOB that much.

I've been there, but it was before they really moved in. I'm just surprised it has taken them this long to exploit the fact that we have LN's guarding the FOBs. Hopefully there will be some serious US supervision of the guard force from here on out at a minimum. Inshah Allah.

[Blackjack78]

I would say more likely that he was brought in by someone else and skipped the toss by pulling rank on the guards at the ECP. Just a guess on my part. My experience has been that the normal OGA guys (with a few exceptions) dont get off the FOB that much.

I've been there, but it was before they really moved in. I'm just surprised it has taken them this long to exploit the fact that we have LN's guarding the FOBs. Hopefully there will be some serious US supervision of the guard force from here on out at a minimum. Inshah Allah.

I'll defer to you brother. If true, what a way to recruit someone letting all see who comes and goes. A sensitive site like that is not under out control to me, sounds criminal. Hopefully it will change. Insha'Allah.

[MakoZeroSix]

I would say more likely that he was brought in by someone else and skipped the toss by pulling rank on the guards at the ECP. Just a guess on my part. My experience has been that the normal OGA guys (with a few exceptions) dont get off the FOB that much.

I've been there, but it was before they really moved in. I'm just surprised it has taken them this long to exploit the fact that we have LN's guarding the FOBs. Hopefully there will be some serious US supervision of the guard force from here on out at a minimum. Inshah Allah.

What shocks me is not that this kind of thing happened- because this certainly isn't the first time they thought about doing this sort of thing, and I can see how the security lapse could happen- but that it happened to that many officers instead of just one or two lower level guys. If it indeed went down the way I think it did, then WFT?

"Hey, guys- we've got an unvetted LN with some info- let's call every swinging dick on the post together for the very first meeting!"

"Better bring the station chief as well- can't have too many fingers in the pie!"

"Fantastic idea!"

Boom.

[Stanley_White]

What shocks me is not that this kind of thing happened- because this certainly isn't the first time they thought about doing this sort of thing, and I can see how the security lapse could happen- but that it happened to that many officers instead of just one or two lower level guys. If it indeed went down the way I think it did, then WFT?

"Hey, guys- we've got an unvetted LN with some info- let's call every swinging dick on the post together for the very first meeting!"

"Better bring the station chief as well- can't have too many fingers in the pie!"

"Fantastic idea!"

Boom.

Concur.

[Sharky]

What shocks me is not that this kind of thing happened- because this certainly isn't the first time they thought about doing this sort of thing, and I can see how the security lapse could happen- but that it happened to that many officers instead of just one or two lower level guys. If it indeed went down the way I think it did, then WFT?

"Hey, guys- we've got an unvetted LN with some info- let's call every swinging dick on the post together for the very first meeting!"

"Better bring the station chief as well- can't have too many fingers in the pie!"

"Fantastic idea!"

Boom.

Again.....guesswork and speculation on my part, but he detonated in the gym. Unless they are in the habit of interviewing folks in the gym it sounds more to me like someone was probably escorting the bomber around (I dont see them allowing him to just walk around freely), asked where X is who is supposed to interview this dude, was told X is in the gym, walks the dude over to the gym to find out what to do with him and the bomber sees his target of opportunity to take out more than one. They were probably in there working out. My guess is that he intended to take out whoever did the interview and I doubt that they are gonna have 8 people hanging out to interview one ANA dude.

[Sharky]

I'll defer to you brother. If true, what a way to recruit someone letting all see who comes and goes. A sensitive site like that is not under out control to me, sounds criminal. Hopefully it will change. Insha'Allah.



It wouldnt be uncommon to see a dude in an ANA uniform coming/going from a FOB. Without going into detail, I can tell you that there are procedures in place to keep everyone from seeing who is coming and going and they are normally used. In this case #1 the guy apparently isnt even a source yet, only potential, and #2 he's an ANA officer in uniform.

[Guy]

That entire FOB will now need to pack up and move.I'd move out on foot and lay the LAW down! Trying to deal with "primitive" thinking folks on a PhD level is retarded!

Actions speak louder than "written" words...more than half the fuckers can't read and/or write anyways.

Enclose the entire camp and ship in sheep, goats and feed. Get'em all fat and happy then, deliver'em sparingly to certain segments of the population.

No goat/sheep for you MFer...you ain't helping us a bit.:cool:

Stay safe.

[MakoZeroSix]

Again.....guesswork and speculation on my part, but he detonated in the gym. Unless they are in the habit of interviewing folks in the gym it sounds more to me like someone was probably escorting the bomber around (I dont see them allowing him to just walk around freely), asked where X is who is supposed to interview this dude, was told X is in the gym, walks the dude over to the gym to find out what to do with him and the bomber sees his target of opportunity to take out more than one. They were probably in there working out. My guess is that he intended to take out whoever did the interview and I doubt that they are gonna have 8 people hanging out to interview one ANA dude.

Hmmmm. I figured the gym was either an erroneous report, or the meeting place was like a room attached to the gym or something, because I had a hard time envisioning like the entire OGA staff in the gym working out together at the same time and somebody just happening to wander in and det on it. But I hope you're right, because if my assumption is right, then it it is total amateur hour over there.

[Sharky]

Like I said, complete speculation on my part. Just how I see that scenario playing out as to how he winds up in the gym with 8 of them.

Like everyone else, they seem to have their good and bad but I have not personally seen the "amateur hour" out of them yet. If my assumption is correct, the amateur hour in this case`started at the ECP and ended with whoever let him get to the gym. My assumption is that they were working out.

[FroggyRuminations]

I would say more likely that he was brought in by someone else and skipped the toss by pulling rank on the guards at the ECP.

No doubt about that. Assuming media reports that the guy was already recruited are correct, he would have been met by his handler at the gate and brought in under his authority. No way would a guy like this be able to walk in unescorted and over to the OGA compound.

There is no way that he was a "walk in". If he had been, I can't imagine that he wouldn't have been thoroughly searched and there is little chance he would have been invited behind the curtain. To allow a walk in to to come aboard without a search would literally be suicidal on behalf of the OGA guy.

[MoonDog]

From my VERY limited experience, that had to be one very kool cat. The few reports from witnesess prior to detonation, the bad guys were sweating, mumbling prayers, etc.

This dude just does a high five, looks around with a grin and then, boom.

Like I put forth, one very dedicated, able to hide the fear, person.

Put it in the Lessons Learned box and tighten up our shot group.

[hardknocks]

This may shed a little more light on why it happened. If he truly was a double agent, then the bad guys are ahead of the power curve.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/cia-attacker-driven-pakistan/story?id=9463880&page=1

[klrb929]

damn.. i was there in 03 and 04...and considering where the gym is and the guys who died... they knew from the inside what they were after

[klrb929]

i could give a lot more details...but i dont think open source is a good idea

but the gym (when i was there) was open air and right to the building with a tower on top

[O_Pos]

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/cia-attacker-driven-pakistan/story?id=9463880&page=1

:eek:...:mad:

[SOCOMguy]

From those of us on duty that horrible night (I was working in the TOC) FOB Gardez, RIP my CIA brothers and sister. We will carry on from here

[Metalchica]

This may shed a little more light on why it happened. If he truly was a double agent, then the bad guys are ahead of the power curve.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/cia-attacker-driven-pakistan/story?id=9463880&page=1

Modern-day enemy Trojan tactics. :mad:

RIP

[Jimbo]

These press reports make no sense, whatsoever.

[ratamojada]

These press reports make no sense, whatsoever.

It's because they are based on bad sourcing, speculation and the Taliban/AQ media release on the attack. So basically they are all BS.

Rata

[RhodieBKK]

Considering how news is disseminated in Kabul it is hardlr surprising.
Multiple US agencies & sources along with NGO/journo speculation and general bazaar gubshup.
Combined with the fact that no journo can get down to FOB Chapman.
I suspect we will hear something more authorative out of DC than Kabul.

[Divot]

More info on the attack:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100104/ap_on_re_us/us_cia_afghan_attack

[BKK]

This is a twist in story...

WASHINGTON – A former senior intelligence official is confirming that the suicide bomber who killed eight people inside a CIA base in Afghanistan was a Jordanian doctor recruited by Jordanian intelligence to support U.S. efforts against al-Qaida.
The bombing killed seven CIA employees — four officers and three contracted security guards — and a Jordanian intelligence officer, Ali bin Zaid, according to a second former U.S. intelligence official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press.

The former senior intelligence official confirmed an NBC News report Monday that the bomber was Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi, a 36-year old doctor from Zarqa, Jordan. He was arrested over a year ago by Jordanian intelligence, and was thought to have been flipped to support U.S. and Jordanian efforts against al-Qaida.

[MakoZeroSix]

The former senior intelligence official confirmed an NBC News report Monday that the bomber was Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi, a 36-year old doctor from Zarqa, Jordan. He was arrested over a year ago by Jordanian intelligence, and was thought to have been flipped to support U.S. and Jordanian efforts against al-Qaida.
Reply With Quote

Wow- I feel like I'm watching "Body of Lies" again.

[O_Pos]

Wow- I feel like I'm watching "Body of Lies" again.

No shit.

I hope everyone eventually gets on the same page so the rest of us can find out WTF actually happened.

[Spinner]

RIP

A lot of conflicting reports, so I stopped reading them. Hope they can get a handle on their security.

[RhodieBKK]

AP sources: Birthday cake awaited suicide bomber

By EILEEN SULLIVAN and MATT APUZZO – 4 hours ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i40SJffBByDXmDJMez_FlCn66YhwD9ELGNN81 (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i40SJffBByDXmDJMez_FlCn66YhwD9ELGNN81)

WASHINGTON — CIA officers in Afghanistan were so eager to meet the spy they believed would help them crack al-Qaida's leadership they planned a birthday celebration for his visit in December, current and former U.S. officials said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/media/ALeqM5gwYruRr6VwUNzjzee5a53JVvdslQ?size=s2
FILE - This undated file image provided Friday, Jan. 8, 2009 by Jordan's Al-Ghad newspaper, purports to show Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi, the suspected Jordanian double agent who killed seven CIA officers in Afghanistan on Dec. 30, 2009. The Arabic news station Al-Jazeera has broadcast a posthumous video Saturday Jan. 9, 2010 showing the Jordanian doctor who killed seven CIA employees in Afghanistan calling for revenge attacks inside and outside the United States. (AP Photo/Al-Ghad, ho, File)


A birthday cake was waiting.

But before they could even begin to question their golden source, he detonated a powerful bomb, killing himself and seven CIA employees in one of the deadliest attacks in the agency's history.

Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi, a 36-year-old doctor who had been recruited by Jordanian intelligence officials, was really a double agent.

The account of the planned birthday gathering is the latest evidence that CIA officials at the Afghan base trusted the Jordanian and wanted to build rapport with him. It was confirmed by current and former officials briefed on the case, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.

The bombing not only weakened U.S. intelligence operations, it touched off a sometimes contentious debate within the close-knit intelligence community about whether such emotions led the CIA to be too lax with its security.

CIA Director Leon Panetta has scoffed at suggestions that security lapses were to blame for the attack. But it remains unclear why there was such a large contingent around al-Balawi when the bomb erupted.

It's not unusual for CIA officers to offer gestures such as a birthday cake or a small gift for spies they are overseeing, former intelligence officials said. Such gestures lighten the mood and take some of the pressure off. And they tell an informant that he's important.

"Normally, though, that's something you do after you've established a relationship," said former CIA and National Security Council official Bruce Riedel, who was not aware of the CIA's birthday plans for al-Balawi. "It's not something you do on the first date."

Such celebrations are typically discreet, small affairs of one or two officers. In this case, many officials were nearby when al-Balawi arrived at the base. Seven were killed and six others were wounded.

In an interview made public after his death, al-Balawi said he knew in advance that he was meeting "an entire CIA team." He said he had been planning to kidnap or kill his Jordanian intelligence contact, but the chance to take out CIA officers was too tempting.

"We planned for something but got a bigger gift, a gift from Allah, who brought us, through his accompaniment, a valuable prey: Americans, and from the CIA," al-Balawi said. "That's when I became certain that the best way to teach Jordanian intelligence and the CIA a lesson is with the martyrdom belt."

Al-Balawi's contacts with Jordanian intelligence, one of the CIA's most trusted partners in the Middle East, gave him credibility. He was thought to have critical intelligence about al-Qaida's No. 2 official, Ayman al-Zawahri. He was not searched.

Shortly after the attack, Panetta pushed back against criticism that poor spycraft was to blame.

"That's like saying Marines who die in a firefight brought it upon themselves because they have poor war-fighting skills," Panetta wrote in a Washington Post opinion piece.

Robert Baer, a former top Middle East CIA operative, heaped criticism on the agency in this month's GQ magazine. Baer said the top officer at the base "was in over her head" and never should have let so many people meet the source.

"Informants should always be met one-on-one," Baer wrote. "Always."

CIA spokesman George Little had harsh words for former employees who criticized the agency from retirement.

"They don't have all the facts of this case, yet they criticize those who were on the front lines on Dec. 30, including some whose lives were taken. That's disgraceful," Little said.

"Informed criticism can be very valuable," he said. "Some of the junk I've seen in the press clearly isn't."

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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[cav_trooper]

I think it's a bad idea to have LNs guarding U.S personnel against other LNs...but that's just my opinion.

And if the KIA's affiliation is correct...duh, maybe it was coincedence...:mad:

The LN idea is horrible. I was at FOB Gardez when it was attacked in September. The ASG let a VBIED drive past them and up to the front gate to detonate. All they ever did was smoke hash and sleep.

[MixedLoad]

There are good reasons to have an LGF, even in Afghanistan.

What you need are qualified supervisors and terps. Once you have those you can run it effectively and attract less attention than if you have a bunch of US personnel running around.