CRIC Logistics

[Disturbance]

go nuts. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[farseer]

just finished Tom Clancy's Special Forces (nonfiction, good read) he talked a little about bosnia and gave a book list the US SF guy's read,

Peacekeeper: The Road to sarajevo
by Major General Louis MacKenzie

To End a War
by Richard Holbrooke (focus is limited to the actual peace deal)

Bosnia: A Short History
by Noel Malcomb (gives good perspective on the decay of the region that lead to why we are going there)

Engame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebrenica
by David Rhode (the serb massacre of croats and muslims in full view of the west)

Low-Intensity Operations: Subversion, Insurgency, Peacekeeping
b Frank Kitson (a how-to for low intensity warfare, not really specific to the region but give a good account of revolution, rebellion without glorifying it.)

*this one makes sense when you think about it;
How to Win friends and Influence People
by Dale Carnegie (the basics of listening to people and winning their trust, etc)

Fielding's The World's Most Dangerous Places, 3rd edition
by Robert Young Pelton (doubtlful accuracy but apparently an SF favourite).

if anyone had read any of these lemme know,
i'll try and read a couple and keep you guys posted.

merry (belated) xmas and Happy New Year to all!!!!!!!!

[garett]

Peacekeeper is a good read. I worked at the Canadian Infantry Association Annual Mess Dinner here in Fredericton in October and Maj. Gen. Mackenzie was the guest speaker. I cornered him during the pee break and got him to sign my Coy 2i/c's copy of his book. When my Coy 2i/c was on ROTO 3 as an LO he had to find some local kid with a disease and med evac the kid to the hospital in Sarajevo. He didn't have a map of Sarajevo to give the med evac convoy so he had to photocopy the map out of the book and give it to the convoy leader. He got me to tell that story to Maj. Gen. Mackenzie who liked it I think. He was most likely drunk so who knows. He gave me his business card which is a pretty cool looking card.

[apfsds]

I agree with Garrett, MGen MacKenzie's book is a pretty good read, if you get past his cars and racing. He was in Windsor, spoke at the Windsor Regiment's WO's & Sgt's Annual Mess dinner. Great, no punches pulled talk. Now that he's retired and the government imposed verbal shackles are off, he does'nt have to kowtow to the Puzzle Palace or the self appointed, low lifed, I can fold myself in half and suck my own dick, despot of a Papa Doc dictator, that says he's the Prime Minister. ........sorry, I got off on a tangent. Anyway, he can party with the best and if you have the chance, at the bar, he'll open your eyes about the Balkans and the Cdn Forces, and the way the top works against the bottom and are only concerned with their pensions and how to appease that shit brained, emporer has no clothes, I don give noting to guys but what give me lots money, bend you over and give it in the ass, and ..... ah fuck I'm doing it again!!!! Arrrrrrggghhhhhh. Quick grab the paddles,full voltage please! ___________________^____^____^___^ whew! that's better, thanks!

[apfsds]

garret,
Forgot to ask. Where was your 2i/c that he couldn't get his own book signed and blow his own horn? You don't wipe his ass and pat his 'roids for him to do you? And why were you working the dinner and not attending. Sounds like a shit pecking order out there in the Infantry! Just drinking Newcastle Brown and fuckin' with ya. Don't take offence:D

BTW, if any have the chance to buy MGen MacKenzie a drink, he's partial to spiced rum. Brought his own in case we didn't have any and left us the bottle to toast ourselves with! What a guy!!

[FNG]

I've read "Engame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebrenica". It's an excellent read, and shows just how fucked up that region is. Nearly 8000 people were massacred in Srebrenica. Few lived to tell the tale. The author interviewed a number of those who were there; survivors and even some participants. From their accounts, he pieced together a more or less complete story of what transpired during those few days. I recommend this to anyone who plans to go on tour, Bosnia or otherwise.

[farseer]

thanks fer the responses, i think i'll pick up the mackenzie book for sure, the engame sounds interesting as well ...

holy shit apfsds, are you sure you didn't spend time in the marines, lol, do you mind if i quote you the next chance i get into a talk about politics (appropriate recognition will be given)

[garett]

My Coy 2ic/ was running the C-9 range that weekend and came into the dinner to drop off the book to me then had to go back to the range since the Coy was sleeping on the range in tents. I was working at the Dinner because a Major was a junior rank at the Dinner. It was all CO's, Colonels, and Generals pretty well. The only way I could get involved was to volunteer to work at it. It was either that or sit around at the range and get in peoples way because thats what 2LTs do best.

For books with info on Yugo theres a couple of ex-SAS authored books out there. "CQB" by Mike Curtis has a section on Yugo when he was there. Fuck I love that book. "All Necessary Measures" by Cameron Spence has some interesting things in it. "My War Gone By I Miss It So" by Anthony Loyd has some good shit in it. He was a platoon commander with the Brits and went to Yugo as a journalist. I can't really think of any others right now.

I heard of a book that I think is called "Eat Your Weakest Man" written by someone from the Airborne. Does it exist and does anyone know where I can get it?

[apfsds]

garret,
Good on you! Neccesity is the mother of invention. Thinking like that ALMOST puts within the realm of being a Snr NCO!:D

[FNG]

Yes, it does exist. I got that book from Indigo books.

[farseer]

that eat your weakest man book is good,
but you will get pissed reading it and reliving the shaft they got in somalia.

[garett]

I just finished reading "SOMALIA ON FIVE DOLLARS A DAY - by Lt. Col. Martin Stanton". He was an officer with the 10th Mountain Division in Somalia. He was there when the Airborne hit the runway in Somalia and writes a bit about them. I'd suggest this book to any soldier its a good read.

Somalia On $5.00 A Day (http://www.militarybookclub.com/mybookclub/tenhut/bookclubs/mil/OnlineCatalog/CatalogReroute.htm?author_title=Title&b=Somalia&keyword=Choose+a+category)

[apfsds]

An excellent online read can be found at:
The Somalia Journals (http://www.commando.org/somalia.php?page=introduction.txt)
It give the day to day accounting of the Airborne in Somalia from the first person perspective. A long read but worth it.

[enderr]

if you're interested in the arseholes of the world read Pendleton's book The Worlds Most Dangerous Places, got it as a Christmas gift, it's awesome.

[apfsds]

Any idea how manning for the CRIC is going. I get the feeling this is a put up or shutup for the Reserves. If this does'nt come together or they have to many problems getting people, the monies and equipment(such as it is) for the Reserves will become history.

[UberCree]

From what I hear its hurtin big time.
Sounds to me like a set up though, certain positions need certain courses (courses not needed if it were reg force). Certain courses not being offered, etc. etc.

[TonyM]

I think Cree's right, from what I've heard, they need bodies badly. If any of you guys want to go, and are getting a run around, submit your names on a properly formatted memo thru your BOR. Then follow it up. Last word I got was "If you want to go, you can go", which is a far cry from the original "Only QL4 Inf Cpl or above".
My guess is that the res pretty much doomed if they can't pull this off.

[Enfield]

I know that my unit has plenty of volunteers, but a lot of those guys are fairly new (like just did QL3 this past summer). Only one of us has a previous tour.

I know there is a rush to get NCO's ready - last I heard all sergeants had to be SAIC qualified, so a SAIC cpourse was run this summer. Unfortunatley a prereq was an MG course, so some NCO's weren't eligible.

Funny how the build-up training started at a year and a half, then went to 6 months, now it's at 4 months.....
But, I think the brass is looking at this as the way of the future, since the Regs just can't provide the bodies anymore. Looking at photos of guy's that went last year, there were whole platoons of Artillery acting as Infantry, plus reservists.
And now with most of 3PPCLI committed to Afghanistan, they really need more bodies.
If the CRIC doesn't work they'll have to make it work, there's no other options.
The Chief of the Land Staff got picked on by the Senate and Parliamentary Defense Committees because the Army has been slow at integrating the Reserves, and still lags far behind the Navy and Air Force.
I have a feeling once this gets rolling it'll be touted in the media a lot... Lots of specials in Maple Leaf, lots of reporters wheeled around.

[Enfield]

Oh, regarding NCM's... theres a dearth of QL4's in the guys my unit's sending, and i expevct the problem is common due to the lack of QL4's run recently. I think we have maybe two Drivers, one MG, one Recce, and a few others.
The MG course is no longer available to the Militia, since the Regs just added turret gunner and that new cannon to the list of qualifications, boxes we can't get ticked. The MG course 39 Bde is running right now is useless as a QL4, apparently...

[garett]

Is this thing only available to troops in the west because theres probably some troops in my unit that would want to go?

[TonyM]

Like I keep saying:

"If you want to go, you can go" is what's going around now. Put in a memo, regardless of location, because when the shit starts hitting the fan, they'll be grabbing guys from all over. They are even listing some brand new QL3's who are doing the support weapon training they don't get on course anymore. I'm telling you, they'll take anyone.

[UberCree]

ROTO 11 is SHORT on people... like a three digit number short. 2PP is gonna be SCREWED when they do ROTO 12, heh heh. Sucks to be them!!!

By the way, there's an Infantry Symposium going on in Kingston next week. There will be a general presenting there proposing canking all jump Coy's, mortars, pioneer platoons for infantry.
If any of you are in the area I'd like to hear how his ideas go over.
Soooooo, if you have a manpower shortage what do you do? Well, you get rid of taskings like Mortar, Pioneer and Jump of course, then your Bn is magically up to strength.

[andyboy]

I never thought of that Uber, that's a good point. When they took away the Mortar platoon I thought it was just a way to get the Herbies involved in some operations. Kind of like when they sent them to finish off Cypress.

Are you serious about the extent of the shortages though? We had a visit from our brigade Comd and SM the other day. I asked about CRIC and they quickly changed the subject to something a bit less touchy.

After the Brigade Comd left the SM told us a couple of stories about story about Eggleton. I guess Eggie was visiting Bosnia and was eating with some of the "common people". When a female came and sat down next to him to eat the Egg asks" How do you like it here?" The female looks at him and says, "It fucking sucks, Sir. I'm wouldn't come back here if my life depended on it." Egg says, "Oh, are you a reservist?" She says, "No, Sir, Regular Force." Eggie just looks at her, turns away and starts another conversation. She looks at him , amazed, and asks "Don't you want to know why?" He just ignores her and carries on with his conversation.

This story has two points, one our MND is retarded and doesn't really give a shit about us. Two, I wonder how many volunteers the Reg force could muster to go to Bosnia voluntarily?

The other story he told us was when the Egg was handing out NATO medals to the troops he actually stopped and asked one of them what he was getting it for.

[TonyM]

I can confirm UberCree's remarks. The number of Reg force Roto postions required is around 130 as of last thurs. This is above and beyond CRIC, which is also short.

[garett]

We haven't heard fuck all out here about the fucking tour. If they want more people then why don't they come to LFAA. Anyone know how a troop from LFAA would get on that tour?

[TonyM]

OK, I'll go over this again for you guys that are sleeping in class.


1)Submit a properly formatted memo to your command requesting a position on ROTO 11 and/or CRIC.

2)Give it two weeks, then follow it up.

3)If you don't do #2, then they will forget all about it. Ask for follow up in writing.

When the crunch comes, like 2 days before deployment, they'll be scambling to fill positions. Get your name in now.

[Enfield]

I think the logic is that each Area should be able to support it's own battalions. If we empty out al the available, motivated Reservists for Roto 11, whos left to go for the next tour? I believe thye want to expand this program to all tours. If all you LFAA types go with the PPCLI, who will augment the RCR?
But TonyM's right.. DND has committed to sending a Coy of Reservists on Roto 11, and no matter what the short term consequences, they will meet that goal.
That could mean opening it up to other Combat Arms trades, or to other Areas.

The Militia, nationwide, cannot produce X number (how many total for Roto 11? 250?) of Infantry Reservists every 6 months. These people have lives as well, careers, etc. And very few of the guys that went once want to go again. Roto 11 will be full of all the guys that couldn't, for whatever reason, go on the last tour.

Once this glut have gone through a tour, I don't think there will be all that many Reservists left, even a year or more down the line, who will want to a go - maybe a few guys just off their 3's.

2PPCLI, which is already understrength, will have problems for the next tour. 3PPCLI is out of the running for at least a year. I don't know how the RCR and R22R is doing.

We may be seeing the Army grinding to a halt here....

[Royal Highland Fusilier]

Unless our leadership finally realizes that the Army is way too stretched... and pulls us out for at least one ROTO.

Or they can always send in JTF-2 :D

[farseer]

yea, i heard tonight there is 90 vacancies, it gets better and better.
a guy in our unit, former 3 PPCLI, figures 3 battalion is going to go there get credit for being there, and then come right home in like a month or so.
but holy shit does anyone feel like we're headed full steam to a brick wall, whats going to be left for ROTO 12 and 13?
will they allow back to back tours? or does the gov actually have the ability to change our contracts and force some to go?

[Cbt Engr]

Originally posted by garett
Is this thing only available to troops in the west because theres probably some troops in my unit that would want to go?

Garrett,
Check with your Ops cell. Have them check the CFTPO and find out exactly where the tasking positions were sent. Then they can check and see if the positions are going to be farmed out to other units. There is a timeline on when positions have to be filled.

[Enfield]

Alrighty....
The Departure Assistance Group is at the beginning of Feb at 39 Bde HQ for us BC troops, where we will complete the paperwork, meet and get a speech from the platoon and coy commanders (anybody know anything about Lurch?), and be issued - you heard it - with CADPAT uniforms. yippee.

There is also a month long ex in Edmonton (I think it's there) in April and they want the BC Platoon to go for a week as a formed unit. Unfortunatley, that's right in the middle of exams, and I'm not sure that I want to spend one of my final weeks of freedom before a year long commitment going on another ex.

The paperwork from Above defintlye seems to be mentioning 'CRIC' and "Augmentees", but no numbers given.

[garett]

Hey Cbt Engr...you with 4ESR?

[Enfield]

Might as well post what we were told yesterday for those in other Areas.
CRIC needs 117 people, they have 199 names or so.
Training is divided up by months.
May is "company collective training" in Edmonton and Wainwright. Ranges, live fire defensive and offensive - and lots of PT, ruckmarches, etc. I get the impression this where the wheat is seperated from the chaff, through grinding us into the ground.

June is at the discretion of the LFWA commander. It looks like we'll be deploying to do security for the G8 summit since there are not enough regular troops left in Western Canada. I'm really looking forward to thi spart.

July is when all the Regs have to take their accumulated leave before going overseas, so we get most of this month off too.

August is mission training - internal security, language and cultural lessons, all that good stuff. Done with 1PPCLI.

September is final pre-deplpoyment leave and getting ready to go. Tentative departure date is 25 Sept.

Comments. The Coy Comd seems really switched on, though he didn't tell us any of his background. The BC Platoon commander is very switched on - ex-MCPL in the Airborne, all that good stuff. Had some good things to say, shot with us shit with us afterwards. The platoon warrant, another C Scot MWO, is pretty hard. Another ex-Airborne type - I'm sure TonyM knows more about them.

The troops are a full range of from the Mo'. everything from the guy just off his QL3 with 7 months in to ex-Regs, guys with a couple tours, and lots of time in. One female.
There's a definite shortage of drivers. Each section gets 3 Iltii, so you do the math for a company...

Another thing, a lot of guys are talking about bringing over laptops with them, and everyone that was over last year is bringing one.

[farseer]

I've heard the same thing about the G8, the police don't want to play in the woods. Should be good for training though.

for those who know more than I, what do you think of the US putting N. Korea, Iran and Iraq on notice? saw the reports and it almost looks like some sort of mission creep, spreading everything to thin.

[Disturbance]

"NET SECTION"
"Net section" (in reply)

"Reference word CRIC at top of thread!"
"Reference word CRIC at top of thread!"


"CRIC will now be known as DELTA COMPANY!"
"CRIC will now be known as DELTA COMPANY!"

[Infanteer]

All I know is that MWO is going to chewing up Mo and spittin em out like a wad of Copie...Fuck he was hard.

[TonyM]

I've worked with both the officer and the warrant. Lately I've been doing the aggressor force for the CRIC trainees here. You guys are in for some fun
The pl WO is one highly switched on troop. He's done the Cambrian Patrol, lots of tours (one as a door gunner). You young studs out there would be hard pressed to find a better mentor. Stick with him if the shit's hitting the fan.

ReverendB knows the officer , ask him......

[Disturbance]

Leaving next week and still dont know when.

Heard some cool shit. Apparently when we are learning a bit of FIBUA we will be instructed by the Jedi masters themselves.

[garett]

When a guy I know went on Roto 3 with 2RCR they got to do FIBUA in a building that was being torn down. The JTF guys were there with them teaching them how to do shit. He said it was pretty cool, they got to destory as much as they wanted.

[Infanteer]

Yeah, a buddy on ROTO 11 was based with the Jedi's. He said when they were doing FIBUA training and the fucked up, the dudes shot them in the leg with simunition...hurts like a bitch I guess.

[Enfield]

Originally posted by Disturbance
Apparently when we are learning a bit of FIBUA we will be instructed by the Jedi masters themselves.

Hoping for an autograph? lol

Since we're leaving so soon, I'd kinda like more word on stuff like barrack boxes, weight and kit allowances, if and why we need 2 duffels of winter gear and snow shoes for the summer, if we can drive up...

[Disturbance]

Well in that case I would love to know when exactly we are leaving???

[Enfield]

just got word we can't drive up...
shit!

[Quimby]

Anyone hear about numbers for the CRIC? I just got a phone call asking if I want a spot and was I available right away. I hear they've got to many guys and others say not enough. What the fuck is going on? I'll take the spot if it's available, but it seems like typical militia bullshit. No one knows what the hell is going on.
I've been against going on CRIC for a while just because I have no faith in the militias ability to organize a good shit, never mind an entire company of troops to deploy overseas. But I guess time will tell.

[Disturbance]

I have heard the same Quimby. When we did our DAG, they were saying that batt alone had like 90 spots open and that 170 or so have signed up in total. However the other training night a Cpl (in the know) was saying that batt only had 38 spots and that 90 were trying for it. He said you will be guarunteed training this summer but until you are in Bosnia dont bet on going. :confused:

[Infanteer]

Thats odd, I've heard the opposite...not enough reservists to completly fill out the battle group. Oh well, I am taking it day-by-day, so I ain't expecting too much.

My educated guess is that judging by the current condition of CF recruiting and retention, that if you want to go, you'll have a spot.

[Gunner1]

Gents, if I can answer any of your questions on the CRIC plse let me know....:D

Comd LFWA direction is to maximize the number of Reservists filling position on the TO&E. Your units may have been pushing for people in the last couple of weeks. If a Reservists passes training, can fill a spot on the TO&E (including qualification) they will bump the Regular out of the position in order to maintain Regular strength for Roto 12.

There should be almost 320 Reservists showing up on 30 April 2002. See ya there.

[Infanteer]

Cool, Its always good to have someone in the know. Thank you sir, now I am taking my drunk ass to bed...I got a date tommorow you 2whores