CADPAT

[Cree Warrior]

Any of you guys know who is producing the CADPAT material (s)?
I know that it is starting to hit the civy market, Supply Sargeant in Edmonton is selling IP bags, FMP cover etc. in it.

Thanks

Sua Sponte

[TonyM]

Contact Ben Arnold at Sabre Industries. You can find him on the UK board under "Skip". He tried making us up some SAS smocks in CADPAT but the CF contacted him and told him no-go, they hold the copyright and are not letting anyone reproduce it.

[murphquake]

id love to know how a nation state can copywrite or patent a color pattern or whatever... meaning the USMC and the CF... the Marines have a small EGA in the pattern, but I'd love to see how they would enforce these things, especially overseas. just seems funny to me (I understand that you canucks are fucked, not owning your country and all, but I own the united states and its governmental appartus as a US citizen, and therefore anything that any part of it makes is in the public domain. I have however, seen that some company in europe supposedly owns the computer stuff for the camos and the US and Canadians licensed it from them)
-bill

[garett]

Waaaaaaa?

[Enfield]

Does the CF have patent on olive drab as well?
You could probably get past the CF's patent by simply changing a colour or two slightly -enough that it looks the same but will get past the patent laws. But I would think that the patent is actually held by a civilian contractor, not the military itself.
And how the hell do we not own our country??!!

[apfsds]

If some REMF is already pirateing the stuff, it shouldn't be too long before it is available generally. As to the goofy comments about owning countries, he's just spraying and praying, blindly fireing (as usual) hoping to hit something. It's from a placce where 90% of the people don't know their state capital or the name of their governor.

[Cree Warrior]

I beleive the stuff I saw didnt have the pink in it that I remember CADPAT having (Oh dear). So maybe it is different.
With the pattern having changed a few times and the style of new combats changing a few times, now with button covers, I'm sure no one will be able to tell the difference between issue and non-issue gear (not that most intelligent people care).
As for copyrighting the pattern, jeez, what ever happened to free enterprise? The reason their are so many companies in the US like Blackhawk, Eagle, Tactical Tailor etc. Is that they can use the woodland and OD pattern and make a SUPERIOR product. Truly capitalism at its best. This only benefits the soldier.
It's the same in the UK with ARKTIS etc. They are able to make their own gear, some of it becomes so popular and practical that it eventually becomes issue (Commando chest webbing), similar to Ranger chest webbing now worn by members of 75th Ranger Reg't. It saves the military doing all this BS R&D. Why spend millions on R&D when civy companies will do it for a fraction of the cost and with a better end product?

Sua Sponte

[TonyM]

Too true. It is a load of crap that we can't buy the pattern raw materials. Sabre Industries was going to produce a complete line of clothing, webbing, hats, etc. If anyone does find some, let me know. I'll get someone to start making it. Meantime, my wife made my CADPAT cam screen into a zip up smock. No one has complained about that.

[murphquake]

Enfield: I don't have to get past the CF's patent because canadian patents have no value in the United States. The stupid fuckers probably did patent OD as well. The United States of America is a republican democracy. We answer to no one but ourselves. We vote directly for our executive and legislators. http://thomas.loc.gov/ check it out. Try the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence for starters.

Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot: Albany and George Pataki, my mayor is Rudolph Guiliani. I had a whole diatribe about commonwealths and stuff but socnet burped and killed it... As for spray and pray I'd like to know where you as a new member here get off making broad generalizations about my posting habits? Have you read every single one of my posts here and all the ones in the threads they're in or relate to that you would be so qualified? Lemme guess... you're still proud because the PM bragged about being able to count votes? funny i dont seem to remember that fuck being elected by the populace at large?

Cree Warrior and TonyM: Thank you for understanding. Other countries kept their camo patterns secret for decades (the Swiss for example) to prevent other nations from using it against them. They were prohibited from selling it or publishing pictures of the pattern. Look for some of Keld from tactical.dk's stuff about being surprised that Artkis got hold of some of his militaries' pattern, and note the surprise, because they have tried to keep it under wraps for whatever purpose. If i had the desire and the means to acquire enough of a sample of cadpat to determine the whole pattern and started manufacturing anything using it no one could stop me. Canada can't sue me. It's sad that you subjects of so sorry a state as canada are used as pawns in such a sickening manner.
-bill

[apfsds]

murph,
So you saying your the other 10% or you know how to read enough to look stuff up? I'm not trying to start anything, but keep your self righteous bullshit on your own side of the border. There's no need to call us down on anything, especially when the thread was started to try and find a supplier of material and you used it for an opportunity to bash Canadians and our country. As to what gives me the right, 30+ years in our military, that's what. By the way, your new mayor-elect is Bloomberg.

[This message has been edited by apfsds (edited 11-07-2001).]

[farseer]

this what happens when siblings marry and too many red dawn movies.

[Infanteer]

Here we go again....


-sigh-

[apfsds]

Infanteer,
Your absolutley right, I shouldn't have taken the bait. Problem being I'm to long in the tooth to let some teenage, self styled, libertarian from Queens(how apt)talk about our system of gov't. I don't mind civil discourse or even dissent from our own, as long as you voted. But not from the likes of someone who likely isn't old enough to vote in his own country or legally buy beer there yet. I'll try to ignore.

[garett]

I actually find this entertaining. Now back to watching Yankee Sluts Island...

[garett]

Hey Cree, where can I get some info on this kit. I want to be the first 2Lt. on my block with some CADPAT shit.


I guess you know my Pl. Comd. too, H. Burke. I mentioned the board and thought you guys might of been on training together. I guess I was right. I'm her bitch.

[This message has been edited by garett (edited 11-08-2001).]

[Marauder]

Murph;
Please try and tighten your shot group. None of the men on here are responsible for a three term reign of Liberal terror. We're trying, but most civvies up here are content with the status quo (which is comfortable, if not especially greatness inspiring.)Our votes are being put in the right places to effect change, we now just have to start a ripple effect with our friends and family to start with a clean slate. No government is perfect, and ours is a work in progress, as is pretty much every other government out there.
Lastly, as others have said, let's PLEASE not have this us vs. them shit started again, especially here and now. Danke.

Hey Garret, sir, couldya shoot me a line at maraudinglancer@hotmail.com? I have some questions about RESO and the life of a 2Lt on parade nights. Yeah, I'm going to the Dark Side if my school schedule allows it. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[Cree Warrior]

Murph,
FYI
The USMC has pattened their new cammo pattern as well. None of the private gear companies will be able to get ahold of it for years.

Sua Sponte

[murphquake]

APFSDS: everything is an opportunity to bash canada if you're an American =-) No looking up was needed, I've known the capitol since i was a child and most of the others, I've known who every mayor and governor was in my life time (even if it is a short list, Ed Koch, David Dinkins, Adolph Ghouli-nazi... Hugh Carey, Mario Cuomo, George P.) When I voted on Tuesday and saw Bloombergs name on the list and am well aware that he is the Mayor-elect, thank you. If you made a joke about the US, NY, NY or Queens I think I would be able to live with it. Buying beer being the true measure of maturity, I therefore am mature. How the hell do you use libertarian in a derogatory manner? The ageism is pretty impressive as well.

farseer: cousins pal, and who said they were married? =-D

garett: yankees suck! Let's go Mets!

Marauder: Pas de quoi.

Cree: the USMC has placed a picture of the Eagle Globe and Anchor within the pattern (look here: http://www.geocities.com/murphquake/pics/MARPATEGA.jpg ) I have heard several stories concerning this making it illegal to copy, but none have made any real sense. You'll notice that I mentioned that the Marines have annoyed me just as much with this silliness in my first post on this thread.

All: You'll notice that in all my replies I've specifically addressed the individuals whom I mean my comments for and that they have taken on different tones. I think most of you realize that I like canada in general although I am not a fan of your system of government or your government per se. For that matter I am not a complete fan of the system of government in the US, and especially not of the US government. I hope everyone realizes that all the canada bashing is in jest and that if anyone is offended by it I'm terribly sorry, I'll have some sense of humor added to our next humanitarian aid package =-)

BTW CADPAT here: http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/cgi/webc.cgi/store/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1551131&sid=8NxGfR0HMJq24-W

MARPAT here: http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mcub/utility/index.html

So the question of the day is: Does anyone have a definite source for anything in either pattern?

[garett]

Bahhhhhhhh Humbug.......

[Cree Warrior]

Us Canadians only get so defensive because we've bought all the "greatest country in the world" hype hook line and sinker. Generally however it is true though, heh heh. Especially when compared to the US!
Speaking of Libertarianism, I think if Minnesota annexed and became a seperate country with Jesse "The Mind" Ventura at the helm you'd have every member of this board immagrating there within days.

Having lived and served (and voted)in both countries however does give me exclusive rights to slag either country at will.

Sua Sponte

[murphquake]

Actually the first amendment of the United States Constitution gives you that right unless Jeff R. has snuck the servers off to that funky principality in the north sea (what the hell is it called? they use their sovreignty to protect anyone who uses their servers) Anyway, I'll will agree that you have got a leg up on most of us, CW, but neither the US nor Canada has lived up to their potential, but when canada becomes a State they will. =-)
-bill

[garett]

Well if we're going to become a state I better start working on being an asshole.

[Marauder]

Isn't that one of the EO checks in officer training, sir? http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

[garett]

One of the last POs on Phase 3 and one of the first on JLC.

[murphquake]

Just because canada will become a State doesn't mean you'll be the asshole state.
-bill because I know you weren't saying something mean about us ;-)

[apfsds]

murph,
Your proctologist called, they found your head.

I know it's not original, but when the cranium and colon fit together like yours.... just kidding;-)

[FNG]

Correction garrett, the first PO of JLC is to learn to take it first before dishing out...

[murphquake]

nothin like the first time you hear the pop... =-D
-bill

[apfsds]

Hey Murph!
You OK bud? Was the crash near you?

[garett]

Its pretty shitty that when something happens your first thought is that its another attack.

[apfsds]

Nah, we get the US news here and we had every indication that it was an accident almost from the start. Murph lives in Queens (I think), and while it's quite big, you never know. Although his connection is probably down.

[Ditch]

Hey Murph, I think what you mean to say is IF THE U.S. BECOMES A PROVICE.

[murphquake]

Guys,
First off, thank you very much for your concern, I truly appreciate it. The crash wasn't particularly close to me, but was about 2 blocks from a good friends home (who coincidentally had a front row seat for WTC as she worked across the street at the AMEX and was comming out of the subway as the first plane hit, talk about bad luck.) This tragedy did touch a little closer to home. That same morning my dad and stepmother were flying out of JFK on AAL to Cancun on a flight leaving at... you guessed it: 9:15 am. I was chatting with a fellow SOCNETzien, who told me what happened, and then I spent 4 hours trying to find out if they had left or what. Because they didn't give any flight info about their flight out of here to anyone everyone but me and my sister (who both have worked quite a bit at JFK) knew that it would be silly to fly to DR then to Mexico and that if they had a connecting flight it would be through Miami. This provided little solace to our neurotic relatives who kept the phones ringing all morning until they got home in a cab and called everyone. The flight to SDQ and the flight to MIA actually check in and leave through the same concourse at the AAL terminals at JFK (A for those who care) so my dad and his wife saw all the people who were going on that flight. they were on the plane and about to taxi when they were told that something had happened. They were on the plane for a while (and annoyed that they had left the cell phone and my father's badge at home as those would have smoothed things out getting back.)

garett, you're most definitely right. Until I knew the flight number of the flight and the destination I had no idea if they were ok (luckily I didn't tune in til about 9:45 and it was announced by 10 which flight it was.

apfsds, actually i was online the entire time (cable modem,) but my phone was out for about half an hour. During WTC my phones were out but i recieved incoming calls fine the entire time. I've only been at this particular apt for about 3 years so the newer wiring that was put in may have had something to do with it as the landladys been here for ages and her phones worked fine. as for them knowing it was probably an accident I didn't hear anything definite right away, but did shortly thereafter. Like they curse in china: I live in interesting times.

Ditch, keep up the attitude and we'll make you wait to be the 53rd state instead of 52nd.

All, thanks again, for the second time in way too short a period you guys have been extremely kind. I hope I never have to ask the same about any of you. Be careful, it's a planet out there =-)
-bill

[cdn_airborne]

I went to Supply Sergeant in Edmonton and they had 3 full sets of CADPATs, but with the covered pockets. They were also selling civi-type belt pouches, NBC type bags, patrol bags, and an FMP cover (I think) in CADPAT, all made by some private company. The bags were very poor quality and were $70 and $100.

[garett]

A guy from my unit is working on a call out in Gag-town evaluating the combats with the pockets that have the covered buttons. I think they look alittle better, the green buttons stick out even more on CADPAT and look even more like big nipples.

I wouldn't mind getting an FMP cover in CADPAT. I went to the Supply Sgt. website and couldn't find and info. I saw one yesterday at our Battalion trg conference but I don't know if its from Ed. since I live in Fredericton. I'm a kit slut, I can't help it. What I really want is a camelbak in CADPAT. They had two Camelbaks in CADPAT when they brought the new kit to my unit to show us. They had a stealth and viper. They're going to go with the viper I guess because its 3L. I'm not too sure if I want to carry 3L of water around on my back. Its a pretty big system and I wonder how compatible it is with a rucksack.

[TonyM]

Can someone get me a company name from one of those products?

[TonyM]

May have gotten someone to try making some kit. He's going to start off with something simple like T-shirts. Anybody interested?

[Enfield]

depends on what's allowed by the unit, and how long it takes for the Tease the Soldier gera to get to us...
FMP covers, shemagh/scarves, camelbaks, are things I can think of.

Tshirts would be cool, but I doubt many of us could get away with wearing them.

Anybody see the experimental CADPAT fleece the Clothe Soldier guys have? yikes!

[farseer]

i second that,
definitely camelbak ,

[garett]

I've thought about making a cover for my camelbak out of my personal cam sheet. The actual CamelBaks that the Clothe The Soldier guys had were pretty cool, the pattern was copied over pretty good. I'm just not sure about the whole 3L CamelBak they're going to be issuing. Thats a lot of water to haul around. That fleece is pretty nasty, same with the rain gear. Still don't know if I like the LBV either.

[farseer]

no way man, i have a 3L black camelback plus my canteen. i rarely have to use the canteen but i'll tell you the camelbak is an excellent piece of kit especially when you are diggin a trench in 30 degree weather. On marches too its easier to sip on the spout than too get at your canteen. Plus you can harass yer fireteam partner when he drinks all his water and is beggin for yours.

[murphquake]

Hey guys,
Funny that this is active again. One of the guys on the board at www.lightfighter.com (http://www.lightfighter.com) had some interesting info on the CADPAT LBE stuff, and he sent me some pics to put online for him. I was just gonna post it in GEARNET, but as long as I'm here it's http://www.geocities.com/murphquake/CADPAT.html

As for camelbaks, I'd be happier with the 3L one, if you need less then dont fill it all the way. unlike canteens (or way more than our 2qt ones, i should say) CBs collapse as you drink and you can easily get the air out of them with out spilling any water. i've got pics up there of the side pouches for the vests, which are removeable. the guy on the lighfighter board says they'll supposedly issue a pair of each, the C9 drum and canteen pouches that is. The vest looks a little better than the little pics i've seen of it before, and the cadpat on the mesh and strapping is kinda cool, but overall im still not too impressed, the 4 mags thing is a joke...
-bill
P.S. What's the deal with the fleece? I don't know anything about it, but you guys all seem to be pretty disappointed with it?

[This message has been edited by murphquake (edited 11-26-2001).]

[Enfield]

The fleece itself is fine. Right now it's just green, but there's prototypes of a CADPAT fleece in the system, which just looks stupid. Also in the works are Tshirts, boots, tents, rain gear, and bivvy bags in CADPAT.
Yeah, the 4 mags thing is kinda worrying... I think with this system we actually end up with less storage space than we have with the webbing - though it'll be alot more comfortable.

The Maple Leaf had an article a couple weeks ago about how they just started wearing CADPAT uniforms in Bosnia and the locals started speaking German to them.

[murphquake]

HAHAHA sprechen sie canuck? Very funny if not most likely bravo sierra. A lot of people do say it looks like flectarn though. Why does the CADPAT fleece look funny? (that was why I was confused before) Is the pattern too small for it to stay together if the fleece is the (for lack of a better term) hairy kind? I've seen the brit DPM fleece and they look ok to me... oh well. The vest overally seemed like a good idea, but it should hold at least 6 if not 8 mags, and the side pouches should use an attachment system that would work with a belt or pack, not some proprietary design.
-bill

[Cree Warrior]

The name on the products in Edmonton is "BrookWater", made in USA. I have a feeling its MARPAT not CADPAT, but the guys in Supply Sargeant dont know shit.
They want 250.00 for a CADPAT top and bottom!
Give me a break.

Sua Sponte

[garett]

When I think of all the hype about CADPAT I think of that episode of the Simpsons where Milhouse has a little fantasy day-dream where he puts on Cam and disappears.

The fleece just looks like shit, the pattern just doesn't transfer over well. The vest feels good, I've tried it on, but the mag pouches suck. Enfield is right, the webbing can carry more. The vest has pretty well everything that the webbing has accept a KFS holder and the butt pack. The OD vests currently being used have that big pouch on the back that can fit in rain gear or whatever but I don't think this vest has it. It could take some improvements for sure, lets see if they actually do it.

I have a feeling that the local hippies/dirtbags will be wearing CADPAT before my unit does. We all know that most hippies/dirtbags have rich father's that will spring for that set of $250 CADPAT. I'm not sure what I'll do when I see my first hippy/dirtbag wearing CADPAT, either I'll be so pissed off that I won't be able to do anything or I'll lose it and wake up in jail.

[TonyM]

Last August at the CFB Comox airshow, a lot of the wing wipers and hangar sweepers were wearing it. I asked if they'd been overseas. "Nope, we just trade in the green ones". Goes real nice with that blue beret.

Our unit just got issued the new bush hats. A little different from the US model, more of a low profile flat top, heavier material and a built in Beau Geste flap.
I contacted Artkis (US) and asked if they had any plans to make up CADPAT kit. They said they did, but not "for some time yet".
CQ tells me the CTS people have cancelled the CADPAT T-shirts after the initial run. I wonder why?

[andyboy]

Just a note, I posted this on the Lightfighter board and thought it might interest you guys. I work for a company that makes body armour and EMS equipment. One of our employees worked with DND creating the Tactical Assault Vest (known around here as the M35) and I have had a chance to give it a bit of a trial on exercise. I have mixed feelings about it but suffice is to say it is more comfortable than webbing and is far superior to that current issue combat-coat-with-the-sleeves-cut-off piece of crap LBV. Here is the bubble burster. DND recently placed an order for 3600 of the current issue LBV (combat-coat-with-the-sleeves-cut-off piece of crap) instead of the M35. So do the math and consider the number of them that are already out there plus the 3600 and subtract the number of troops who would be issued it (combat arms mostly). You can clearly see that we will have to make do with webbing for a long, long time to come. Oh yeah, by the way, they ordered the LBV in "Canadian Medium Green", not CADPAT.
Have a nice day, fuck you very much DND.

[This message has been edited by andyboy (edited 11-27-2001).]

[Enfield]

The current LBV - overseas only issue - isn't that great. Very heavy, cumbersome. Guys I know that work it overseas complained it only came in sizes to big.

Keep in mind that the new vest is supposed to tie in with the small pack system - so you get a little backpack with it. Which isn't that different than the system a lot of guys in my unit use; a chest rig w/ small pack.
The CADPAT blanket-thingy I have (it's currently a wall decoration) has a tag saying it was made in Sweden. The mesh on the new vest had to be made in Europe as well.

[garett]

I can't wait to get rid of my damn bush hat. It weighs more then my helmet once I've sweated in it for awhile. You can't hear anything when you're wearing it either. We haven't been issued anything new yet this training year which is weird because we got the other stuff really quick. Maybe our RQMS dragging his heals, I WANT MY NEW HAT!!!!

[murphquake]

Enfield, does it say who in sweeden made it... i saw somewhere a company name, but didnt hold onto it... sweeden sounds about right for it. TIA.
-bill

[Disturbance]

About the Camelbak. I purchased the Camelbak Rogue before I went away this summer. Its a 3L one with a small thin pocket(good to put bank card in) and a pouch(perfect for holding a walkman). Anyways its black and dark blue with two refelctive stripes on the bottom of it so obviously when tactical that would pose a minor problem. So on one of our weekends off just before the FTX I cut off the sleeves of one my tee's and used the scraps for scrim. THen I put the straps through the holes where the sleeves were and attached them to the bottom straps coming out the bottom of the tee. Pretty much make the camelbak wear your tee instead of you. I then sinched up all the excess and sewed it tight. The part where your head pops out fits perfectly over the flap where you pour in the water so I dont have to worry about taking it off an on. Oh and I also put black tape covering all of the water tube and finished camming some bits and pieces. All in all its one smartest things I have done in a long time. It doesnt bother me when I wear it under my ruck and also fits perfectly under my webbing. The OD blends right in. I still have my canteen full of water. I find myself drinking a lot more water than I used to - which is a good thing. The only problem is my tee is starting to smell funny, but oh well.

[This message has been edited by Disturbance (edited 11-27-2001).]

[murphquake]

as far as camelbaks go i have a storm i got last year, to which i've added the lockout valve and an insulated tube cover (well worth picking up if yours doesnt have them) I've been very happy with it, and wonder what i did before i got it. the nice thing about it (aside from the little price) is that its pretty streamlined, just a simple sleeve, but the cap is out so you can fill it easily, and it has basic shoulder straps to use alone. great piece of gear.
-bill

[garett]

My section was basically the CamelBak section this summer. I think the local stores made a lot of money of them this summer due to Phase 2 buying pretty well all of them. I got a black Classic this sumemr and took off the CamelBak tag and gun taped the hose. Eventually I bought the termal cover thingy which costs way too much and bought a switch off valve. I think I'm going to buy one of the new Storms sometime.

I think the company that made that blanket thingy is Barracuda (sp).

[murphquake]

Thanks for the info, Baracuda is a subsidiary of Saab, i'll have to look into it. I can definitely recommend the storm. Id say to go with Brad from lightfighter.com he's the man (thats where i picked up the tube cover and lock valve) when you say thermal kit do you mean that mylar bag or the foam tube cover? it wasn't free, but it was pretty cheap, I don't recall off hand, but I'd say I got charged about 6 bucks total for both (BTW Brad has free shipping, the prices you see on the site are what you pay) If only they made a pressureized version of camelbaks for beer and soda =-) (actually i saw one you pumped up an outer bladder so it would feed on it's own, and i suppose it would work if you could keep the presure up, but it's silly...)
-bill

[garett]

The Thermal Kit was a new tube that was covered and had a crappy cover over the bite valve. When I bought the on/off valve I took off the valve cover and stuck on the on/off valve. I don't know what would of happened this past summer if I didn't have a CamelBak, I wouldn't of been drinking as much for sure.

I've looked around the Lightfighter site and I'd sure like to buy from a troop then some civie bitch company. I gotta find out the small details of buying crap mail-order from the good old-USofA. I picked up the nickname "Kit-Slut" a couple of summers ago and it fits me well.

[FNG]

Garrett, I've bought stuff from Lightfighter.com in the past. I highly recommend it. If you need some help with the details, email me.

I'm half a kit bitch myself too... but just little items like camelbaks, kneepads, gloves and patrol packs. I don't dare buy foreign FFO or rucks least I get ripped a new one by some crusty CSM.

[Marauder]

My section's 2IC got bitched at for wearing a black watchcap instead of the OD touque last weekend ex. Apparently it looked too "commando". God forbid LOL. My way of thinking is to only pick up non issue kit that I could use in the field ie. where no one above the rank of SGT will see and shit kittens that it isn't issue or "looks too commando". Damn, that still has me laughing.

[TonyM]

Looking through my kit last ex, the only cdn iissue was the bivy, web belt, water bottle carrier, one old-style ammo pouch (fits my magellan),leatherman and coolmax underwear. No shit.

[FNG]

What did you use for a yoke/harness Tony?

Enfield: You guys can get away with chest webbing???

For all you kit bitches out there, if you know any buddies in the UK, get them to buy you a Snugpak Sleeka or Softie type jacket. Waterproof, windproof and very warm. It can be worn under a combat shirt where it's out of sight. You won't regret it.

[garett]

They sell American jacket liners that are made with the same stuff as ranger blankets down the road at Canadian Peacekeeper. I've been meaning to get one of those for awhile.

[TonyM]

I've got the most NATO-friendly webbing setup. Yoke is German (sometimes I use the cdn one, but rarely), pouches are mostly Brit (and DPM too), belt is cdn. All held together with straps from Tactical Tailor. Chest rig is Blackhawk. Bayonet & frog are US M9 (I don't put it on too often, thing costs $200. If I'm gonna use it, I want friggin blood on it). I've put this together over about 4yrs. Always looking for the perfect setup, which in reality is as fruitless as seeking perfect cars, women or weapons. It all depends on the current situation. How many times have you been forced to settle for "the best of the uglies" at 3am?

Too true on the Snugpak. I've also got one of the Merlin sleeping bags. Packs up as small as loaf of bread. Amazing kit, but costs a Spanish galleon of gold to get it here.


[This message has been edited by TonyM (edited 11-29-2001).]

[Enfield]

FNG- oh yeah! A sergeant in our unit owns a kit company, and all of his stuff (and others that look the same) is allowed. Chest rigs, small packs, webbing pouches...

Funny, I got jacked last ex for a black toque too. Oh well. The variety of kit being worn by any Reserve unit on ex is amazing...
Personally, I've hel dback from buying everything I'd really like because I'm not in the field enough to justify the expense. There are what.... 5 ex's this year? I can survive with issue kit for a couple weekends.

While we're on kit... Used the gortex jacket a few times this fall, and I must say.. it ain't so great. Not even for standing around in. It leaks around the zippers under the arms, and will soak through on the stitching. Very disappointing.

[Infanteer]

I'd just like to say that the logistical procurment system of the Canadian Forces sucks the big one. Not only do I not have ANY of the new kit, except for a few pieces of underwear, but the paperwork system is so god damn slow and stupid that I do not have a rubber rain coat that I filled out for months ago...and I am getting set to head out to some winter field exs in the rainy Lower Mainland. Oh well, Fuck It Drive On, eh.

[This message has been edited by Infanteer (edited 11-30-2001).]

[FNG]

Speaking of gortex jackets... am I the only one who has half a dozen rips and tears big and small from moving through bushes, wire obstacles, and buildings?

Funny how when you stand in the rain a little bit with the jacket on, voila! You are now wearing Danish cam.

All joking aside, I actually like the jacket even though it is pretty heavy. It DOES keep you warm, even in the middle of winter in Petawawa... and the zippered chest pockets are great for putting spent mags. I wish it used a shell and liner system so you can wear it for it's water resistant properties even in the summer time.

[TonyM]

Looks like my contact has got a supplier for the material (for clothing and cordura). Min bulk order is huge so he'll need to make loads of kit.
Camelbacks, patrol packs,fmp covers, what else can you troops get away with in the anal units?
Also going to get some windproof combats made up.
Any requests?

[garett]

I'm interested for sure. I see the $2000 tuition reimbursement as a personal kit allowance.

[TonyM]

I don't use a camelback, what type of carrier should I give him as a sample? For a patrol pack I was thinking of something like med ALICE, no frame, with a custom external pocket for a LARS.

[cdn_airborne]

I'd pay big money for a windproof-SAS style smock (make sure it's got interior zipped map pockets) in CADPAT. Considering SASS would have charged me around $300 for a green one before they shut down I'd gladly pay that to a Canadian company. If you could get him to print CADPAT on nylon you could make a ruck cover that would fit the current rucks. Do you have the capability to make pouches? If so, british utility pouches would be great (much better than a butt pack), or Rhodesian style utility pouches (the long ones). A patrol pack would sell too, the ones at Supply Sergeant are sh*t.

[TonyM]

The SAS-type smocks is what started the whole thing. They'll be first. It'll be more like the RM arctic windproof with rank tab, cdn buttons, ext zippered pockets like our goretex jacket. I want to see about getting zippers inside for attaching our fleece.Right now it looks like around $200. I hope so.
The supplier needs a min order of 4000m to print material. That's a shit load of kit, so any ideas shoot them over.

[garett]

There are only so many things you can make. How about berets (just kidding). I think eventually these guys will be making shit in CADPAT, http://www.canadianpeacekeeper.com/wheeleraccessor iesltd/shop/searchresults.asp?ProdManList=ALL&ProdTypeList=Cdn+Peacekeeper (http://www.canadianpeacekeeper.com/wheeleraccessoriesltd/shop/searchresults.asp?ProdManList=ALL&ProdTypeList=Cdn+Peacekeeper)

I'd go for a ALICE type pack but the ALICE design isn't the greatest design ever. I think a jacket would sell well since we're probably going to be stuck with green gore-tex ones for awhile.

With 4000m of material you could make cam covers for LAV IIIs. Again I'm joking, I don't know whats wrong with me.

As far as the CamelBak goes, Clothe the Soldier is going with the 3L Viper. They were also looking at the smaller Stealth which I like better. I tried on both and the Viper is like putting on a nuke bag its so big. Those are my suggestions anyway.

[This message has been edited by garett (edited 12-04-2001).]

[FNG]

Tony, are you having Arktis, camelbak, TT, and other companies make the kit with you hooking them up with the material?

Camelbak: I own the Stealth. It's a great design, excellent piece of kit. Probably better suited than the Viper.

Patrol pack: Why go for the ALICE design? How about the Brit Arktis 40L patrol pack, or the Berghaus Munro 30L pack? If you add webbing bars to the outside, you can mount whatever pockets you want in addition to that. Personally, I'd love to see a CADPAT Eagle Becker pack.

Tactical Tailor MAV in CADPAT? Since most of you guys have chest rigs, or are planning to get them.

US Style patrol cap (baseball type) in CADPAT? Think we can get away with that?

You should contact Brad Nelson at Lightfighter... I'm sure he'd love to get a few projects done up in CADPAT.

[murphquake]

CADPAT TT MAV.... arrrgggggg (as in Homer Simpson's 62 slices of american cheese scene...)

Gene at High Speed Gear ( http://www.highspeedgearinc.com ) had mentioned on assaultweb that he may be getting some 1000d MARPAT, im pretty sure he'd make anything you want in that if he can get it, or if you supply the cadpat. Good looking out Tony M.
-bill

[TonyM]

I'm not going to name sources or suppliers this time. Last time I did that (Sabre Industries) the CF actually contacted them and told them they could not produce any thing.

Let's just say it's all being done by the Russian mafia and middle men in Bangkok. Free Michael Jackson and Windows XP CD with each purchase.

Anyone have a line on gore-tex or a suitable clone? I want to see about a zip in liner for the smocks, which could also be worn under a combat shirt (a la stealth suit). NOT 4000m of it either. I'm guessing about 2m per smock, 50 for the first run so 100-150m. OG preferably.

[Infanteer]

Count me in, I bet you the CF is going to find a way to screw the "Clothe the Soldier" up (like they already have, anyways), so Guchi kit I can get away with is always a bonus. What kinda timeframe are we looking at, Tony?

[Marauder]

http://www.arktisusa.com/tacwear/Parka.html
Is this what your "mafia connection" ( http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/wink.gif) is shooting to make Tony? If he can make something like that with some Gore-tex or Per-tex or some other highspeed materials to make it wind and rain proof for around $200, then count me in brother.

As for us getting this Gucci, Clothe The Soldier stuff, well we keep hearing "Don't worry, it'll be here soon." Yeah, and the checks in the mail. And of course I'll respect you in the morning darling. Of COURSE she's on the pill, don't you trust her? LMFAO
But we have been promised that we can get our grubby little infantry mitts on some 203 launchers come March. I've already started bugging my section cmdr to switch me off that bastard C9 and let me play with the 203. http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/smile.gif

[TonyM]

I heard from "Boris" this morning. I've donated my RM arctic windproof and set of combats as a guide, plus we discussed some of the other features. We're looking at mid-late Jan for a sample to come back to me. Anyone know where the CF gets the buttons? I can't find any markings on them. What do they do with all the ratted combats? I'd like to pick up a pallet for the buttons.

[cdn_airborne]

That vehicle cover isn't that far fetched, check out this link:
http://www.stedfast.com/english/defence/camouflage.html

No clue on the CF buttons, try finding the manufacturer of the combats and contact them. You could also call Arktis, they must get them from somewhere.
BTW, does anyone know what happened to SASS? Their ad has been running in Soldier every month but they don't answer their phone, email, or fax, so I assume they have shut down or moved.

[Disturbance]

Hey
whats that 'stealth suit' some of you guys keep talking about? Is there a real name for it because I search and cant come up with anything.

I have decided that this xmas is going to be based on getting me tons of highspeed shite. HAHA parents dont even know what they are in for.

[Enfield]

It's just a gortex suit... pants and jacket, but thin and made of gortex. Meant to be worn under combats. Never heard it called anything but a Stealth Suit.

[TonyM]

Who does make the combats now? Last I heard the previous company was making them so cheap, they ran out of business (leading to the great combat crisis of '98, I remember having a pair of pants that looked like pantyhose and I still couldn't get new ones).

[TonyM]

Last chance for input into smock design. It's going to the maker tommorow. Here's how it stands now:
All SAS smock features plus:
1. SAS type smock, windproof, lightweight, quick drying, half lined.
2. Non-wired hood.
3. Cdn slotted buttons.
4. 2 vertical zippered chest pockets
5. 1 pocket on sleeve for FFD/compass/pens/cigs/condoms, etc.
6. Rank tab on front.
7. Internal chest pocket enlarged for FMP/map
8. Additional zippers added for CF fleece or a goretex liner
9. Velcro wrist closures.


Anything I'm missing?

[garett]

If you're wearing the fleece and the jacket and its zipped in, the sleeves will come out unless something is keeping them in. I suggest some kinda attachment like in Columbia jackets or whatever. It sounds like you've covered most of the bases. You got a date/price? Is the hood fixed or detachable?

[TonyM]

Hood will be fixed, but with the wire stiffener taken out. That way you can stuff the hood down the back and (at a distance) it might pass for a regular combat shirt (well, if the day comes that we actually get the cadpat issued that is).

Reason for the added zippers: There's a place in Victoria called Pacific Trekking. They make a decent lightweight (black) goretex jacket that stuffs into it's own pocket. Folds up really small, about a C9 pouch size, and the zippers match the fleece....I think you can guess where this is going. I got mine for $120, it's black and it wears well. Got the lifetime guarantee, etc. Anyways I think it'll make a handy liner. I tested it under the RM smock this weekend doing yard shit. It was pissing and blowing here something horrible, and then it SNOWED. Holy fucking santa-shit, couldn't haved bought better test conditions. The smock was soaked but I was kept dry all day (I was outside for 6hrs in it).

Jeezus, SNOW out here!

[Marauder]

Any more word from "Boris" on the prototype, Tony?

[TonyM]

Yup, things are proceeding nicely. I've come up with something I want to incorporate into the smock, but my lawyer is applying for a patent first. First run should be ready in 12-16 weeks. I'll be posting some pics here of the prototype I hope to see in Feb.

[TonyM]

Update:

Meeting with the principals this weekend. Hope to cut production time down to 11-12 weeks for the first run of 12 smocks. Found a supplier for a military fleece with removable "breathatex" liner. This is a Dutch mil issue item (has a NSN), cost will be about $50.00cdn. This way the jackets will have 3 parts, in any combination.

Patrol pack will be along the lines of the typical "3-day" assault type with removable pouches to fit C-9 cans or a LARS, stiffened internal pocket will fit a 77 set or such (2 x C-6 sleeves?), 3-ring binders, laptop (for you O's out there) para deployable (bottom will have a place for hookups & lowering line stowage or, for you legs, stow your swiss seat). Any input still welcomed.

[Enfield]

The fleece will have a water proof shell? dreamy.....

For the patrol pack... on the inside, a transparent plastic zippered sheath for maps,papers, etc, most packs I've seen have them now.
How about a water proof (or water resistant) liner?
Oh, and just a thought.. keep in mind methods of attaching it to a the rucksack.. loops for carabiniers or whatever.

What will make this pack different from other 3 day packs out there?

[XXNavy]

Murphquake, you mentioned earlier that you wanted/needed one of these, so when I saw this I thought of you...:p

[TonyM]

The main distinguishing feature of this pack will be...CADPAT. Other than that, not much. The "3-day" design is a good one, no need to re-do the wheel and all that. I do want to incorporate any Cdn-specific requirements people may want, like a ext LARS pocket.

Let me ask this: What do you guys put in your patrol packs?

For me it depends on what I'm tasked for. When I was pl sig, mostly radio shit. As a #2 for the C-6, ammo. Now I'm en force so it's all kinds of shit, but some things I always throw in there:

Modified poncho complete with bungees and tent stakes
Wet/warm snivel kit
MRE/IMP or some kind of snack plus a gatorade or V8 and brew kit
Sec cdr aide memoir/FMP/pencils, etc, package

other than that it's equipment to task.

[murphquake]

lol, that was even funnier in 1996 the first 20 times i saw it =-P

TonyM sounds good. I'd like to see some pics when you have them available.
-bill

[garett]

Laminated porn, a roll of TP and a bottle of hand moisturizer.

[TonyM]

Roll of TP? Don't bother, I've found the holy grail for field ass-wiping. since having kids (and now a ass-wiping expert) I only go with baby-wipes.
You can fit a shit-load (ha) into a ziplock and keep em in your pocket, that way stay nice and warm & wet, just like a getting a rimmer after a good loaf-pinch.
Good for taking off cam too, but not as much fun.....ahh, I'm bored.

[TonyM]

Update:

Concluded a meeting with "Boris" and the manufacturer. We can get the smocks out in 6-7 weeks. Everything is hinging on the material right now ;whatever is involved in trying to incorporate the IRR technology into the fabric. I don't think we'll hold things up for it if it looks like a problem. We'll also be making up pants because the manufacturer will have a huge amount of surplus fabric. Would anyone be interested in hats? I've got my issue one, and they say they can dupe it, but would anybody buy them?
Ruckcovers? What else can you make from that weight fabric, any ideas?

Also-
While shopping for a new sleeping bag, I determined Wiggys as the best out there right now. Snugpaks are great, but too expensive and the insulation breaks down with every laundering. Mine lasted 3 years but now it's just a pertex blanket. Anyways, I've arranged military pricing from Wiggys for us CF res guys, if anyone wants one. See the kit page on my section's site:
www.angelfire.com/co4/2section

[andyboy]

How about a combat shirt that tucks in (i.e. no bottom cargo pockets)?

Stock covers for c-7?

Shorts? (kidding)

[TonyM]

Like the Brit '95 pattern shirt? That's a good idea, I've got one of the old airborne tuck in shirts, it wears well under the fleece.
Would it be best to make it a copy of our shirt, less the pockets, or copy the brit design (zip and button front)?

[andyboy]

I know the shirts you are talking about but from a manufacturing and sizing (as well as avoiding the anal retentive types) I think it would be best to copy the CF shirts. I liked the old two pocket jobbies they issued for a while but don't see them around much anymore.

Check your e-mail by the way.

[UberCree]

Go for stuff that the guys can use without their RSM freikin on them.
I'm in for whatever you get.
Anyone get the dessert pattern yet?
I wonder what the 3PP guys will be wearing?

[TonyM]

I put it to my command that if 3PPCLI would like SAS smocks in Cdn Desert CANPAT, I could get the whole unit outfitted in under 60 days. I doubt the word will even get to them. If any of you guys have contacts there, pass that info along please.

Can anyone tell me if the CF has decided on the covered pockets?

[andyboy]

UberCree:
"Anyone get the dessert pattern yet?"

I'm not sure if you meant desert or dessert but I do have a shirt with chocolate stain on it that could qualify as a dessert pattern. :) :)

[TonyM]

Forgot to mention-

One of the things we discussed this weekend was about soldiers actually being able to wear the smocks and patrol packs, etc. You must understand that the maker is putting a huge investment in the material so he wanted to know if anyone can really wear the stuff. There is a couple of ex-reg guys in on this and one came up with a brilliant idea, it's one of those gray area/semi-legal things.
The maker is going to try to make the items NATO mil-spec so I can submit them to my command for approval. You know this will take eons (and if it works, all the better). One smock to the Brigade,CO, RSM and CQ each for "evaluation". I suggested that we send a few out to JTF too. In the meantime, all you guys that buy them will quietly be part of the "evaluation" process too. Now that's not going to stand up to any type of scrutiny, but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. And should be sufficient to hold off some rampaging RSM, who still laments not wearing puttees and DMS boots, from charging your ass. The key here is that we're going to try to actually introduce them into the system to try to give a little "cover" for you guys. Hopefully, the worst that can happen is just being told to limit wearing it in the field (I would suggest this strongly anyway).
Now patrol packs are covered under a CANFORGEN that allows "civilian pattern backpacks" to be worn with uniforms "in a suitable colour". As for other kit, well, most guys know what they can get away with.
As always, your input is welcomed.

[Bill P.]

Tony M.
I am currently re-entering the military, after several years off. I have been reading the posts on this forum, especially those pertaining to cadpat. How can I arrange with you to order a cadpat smock, once they have been produced? I'm sure I can find some "evaluators" in the regiment I'm entering who would be keen on field testing this new smock. Also can you provide info on the sizing i.e what would a med. or Lge be in inches etc..
Also if I can provide some further ideas as to what other items can be done in Cadpat:
1) 2X2 mag pouch: that can be attached to the side of the "up and coming" LBV! (It would have the same straps/velcro backing attachment format as those of the removeable canteen/c9 pouches& be sized to accomodate mags w/ MAGPULS.
2)Reversible Cadpat / dessert pattern Camelbak cover shells.
3)Cadpat buttpack that can be attached either to those strange webbing straps on the back of the new LBV, or rucksack/patrol pack etc..
4)Cadpat general purpose pouches for anything/everything with either PALS/ velcro strap/ buckle attachments
just some ideas of my own!
Best Regards
Bill P.

[UberCree]

dessert, desert, whatever! Always someone there to point out your weaknesses.

Do you want guys to email you with smock requests? If so I'll send a general email out to our unit members with your contact info. Our unit allows pretty much anything, but I know some units are pretty anal.

[farseer]

i don't have much input, i'm still a rookie.
but you can definitely sign me up for whats going so far,
our unit isn't to hardcore on kit, so it shouldn't be a problem sneaking it , i mean "evaluating" it on EX.

Also there is a store called "Seals Action Gear" here in Calgary that sells all kind of mil kit, run by ex-CF guys. They would probably be interested in carrying it.

www.sealsactiongear.com

[Enfield]

In regards to wearing the stuff, well, how the powers that be will react to non-issue CADPAT is an unknown. For green kit right now, my unit really doesn't care. On any given ex there's at least 2 or 3 kinds of rucks, webbing/chest rigs, plus tons of gucci fleece, goretex civvie stuff under combats. Anything that looks right and is the right color is fine. But, they may change that when CADPAT comes out.

For the patrol pack, you asked what we carry in it. Mine this past weekend had the goretex jacket in it, 5 boxes of C9, an IMP, plus some misc candy and weapons cleaning stuff.Personally, I think the one I have is to small. It's defintley important ythat it be able to hold ammo and/or warm kit (fleece, bivvy bag). Making the outside straps appropriate to securely strap things to the outside would be good too.

Another idea that some of the guys in my unit have been bouncing around was fleece or goretex rip away pants. (or some combo of the two). There's never enough time to put on, or take off, normal fleece or wind pants. Something with a zipper on the side would be great...

[TonyM]

All the items will be made availible here first. I've asked that the initial run of smocks be 12, perhaps I'll get that expanded to 24 if there's enough interest, I know 5 are spoken for already. We're still looking a total price of less than $200Cdn for the smock, fleece, and gore-tex (actually it's called Breath-a-Tex I think) liner. That's CF reg/res pricing, for civies it'll be more. I want to make a little something too. Pants will be around $50. No idea at all on the pack yet.

[Infanteer]

Since I am beginning to become more and more of a "kit-slut", put me in for anything that comes off your assembly line. With your issue date it looks like I'll be able to take this shit with me on ROTO. Hope for a little front-line advertising.

[FNG]

Put me down for a smock please Tony. Probably a medium.

I like Bill's idea about attachment pouches for the LBV as well.

[farseer]

ha ha, infanteer if you wear it on ROTO so will I,
we'll get in shit together, lol
now thats teamwork.
definitely will need a patrol pack too...

[Enfield]

I think BIll has agreat idea here... there will be huge market, across the CF, for guys looking to adapt and modify their new LBV's - having a line of extra pouches ready will put you in on the ground floor.

Are the pants a go? If there are zippers on the sides (so that I have a pair of cold weather pants I can actually use), I'll defintely buy 'em.
Any chance of posting pics of a smock prototype? How do the layers for that work exactly? A Non-waterproof exterior, breath a tex, and then fleece?

[andyboy]

Uber,

No offense meant, didn't realise I was pointing out a weakness, just thought I was making a joke out of a typo. The Dessert/desert thing was in an Asterix et Obelix book I read when I was a kid. :)

As for the CADPAT stuff I don't believe that DSSPM has trialed or actually even chosen the AR version (TW is Temperate Woodland, AR is Arid Region). I have the specs for CADPAT in general and it doesn't have anything listed under the AR headings. Same goes for the Tactical vest, there are NSNs for the TW version but nothing yet for the AR. That being said TonyM, I would go ahead with your push and your plan on the smocks. Get them out ther ans then let DSSPM deal with it, espescially if they become popular with the troops. I know several people in my unit who would LOVE them, me being one, even before we get the new uniforms. Our unit is pretty relaxed about field kit as long as it doesn't look retarded.

[TonyM]

I don't know how the whole copywright thing will play out. I suppose it's entirely possible that the gov't might try to cause some legal problems, but I've been in corporate business for 15 years (and have won a couple of lawsuits myself for a tidy sum) and to make anything like that stick the offended party would need to show how they were damaged. I don't see any way this could be construed as damages to the gov't. Unless they are planning to go retail, or license products, with it themselves. As someone has noted here, CADPAT has already been sold commercialy, to civilians, for a profit at Supply Sergeant.
Is there anyway I can get one of the new assault vests?

[andyboy]

That sounds like good news then because I think the whole thing is pretty bogus (they even put a TM after the word "CADPAT"!). I don't think there is a rational reason for it, maybe we will never know the real reason. I mentioned to give you a heads up and to let you know that I don't think they've "officially" decided on a desert pattern yet. It would be pretty cool to see our troops outfitted with desert smocks sort of like the Brits that are there instead of half CADPAT and half "Canadian Average Green".

If anyone is interested in the vest e-mail me and I will give you some contact numbers.

[UberCree]

Damn TonyM, if I were you I'd make up some Desert (SP?) cam smocks as well. Contact the PPCLI kitshop and tell them about it. I heard they (3PP) may be using US cammo, so if they could get stuff in CADPAT I think the CO would make a call and say..."Order 750 desert CADPAT smocks, who cares about the consequences". Which is exactly how the CAR got their smocks.

[Disturbance]

make sure on the pack there are holes for antennae and camelbak hoses. Enfields idea of straps on the outside is good(helmet comes to mind) and these straps could also be incorporated into sinch straps for when you dont have a full load and dont want stuff flying around inside. Having a breathable lining/pad on the back is also a good idea to wisk moisture away. (have seen some packs with that). Chest buckles on shoulder straps? What about a drag handle so you can quickly grab infanteer when he gets shot? What about the material, will it weigh 4x as much when wet or will it dry fast?

I am just throwing out some ideas which may already been taken care or not needed?

Maybe I should wait till we get some prototypes before i go and spend that million dollars I got for xmas on OD stuff.

And I was kidding infanteer you wouldnt be shot *cough cough* FNG.

[TonyM]

UberCree-

Do you have a contact in Edmonton who is responsible for that kind of thing? I've told my command to pass that along, but I'm sure they'll never hear about it.
I can outfit the whole bn with 2 sets each smocks and pants in desert cadpat in about 60 days.

[UberCree]

just call the base and have them put you throught to the PP kitshop.
(780) 973-4011

I'm stuck in MB right now so I cant be of much help from out here.

[TonyM]

OK, thanks.

[Disturbance]

TonyM ,
what are the chances of the pack being done before May 1?

[bender]

You guys that are all saying your gonna buy this gucci kit are you reg or res? I would like to have some kick ass kit to replace alot of the shitty stuff I got. But in my unit you only get 4-6 ex weekends a year. For those few weekends I get by with the crap I got. Even if I did buy some of this stuff i'd have someone yelling at my ass for having non-issued kit. The only non issued kit i've seen anyone in my unit wearing is a pair of black jungle boots, and one guys got an old frame for his ruck. If I was in the regs and going at it every day then i deffinatly would buy some of my own kit, that's if i could get away with it of course!

[High Speed]

I will have this JUNGLE STALKER pattern in my shop in a few days . It is very close to your CADPAT . This pattern is 1000 denier Cordura and I'm going to be making chest harness and other gear out of it .
Please let me know what you think of this pattern .
Contact me or Lighfighter for your input .
Thanks .
http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/6578959_20020127_010311_20020127010311.jpg

[UberCree]

Looks good, although I'd like to see it in size relation to something else. To be sure that the pixel sizes are similar as an example.
I for one will be interested in a Tactical Tailor style chest webbing made from it, if its made top quality.

[High Speed]

Here's the pattern next to Tiger Stripe and a ruler in inches between them . Hope this helps .
http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/3115516_20020127_010332_20020127010332.jpg

[UberCree]

That looks good. Shoot me an email and I'll order a chest webbing from you. Who's making em?
Once you have a final product get a pic done so we can spread the word. I can guarantee there will be alot of interest as the new CADPAT vest seems over developed if you ask me, not very practical.

[UberCree]

One more thing, if you guys get this shit together by April I'll have a word with the OC CRIC to confirm that it will be okay for the ROTO. I can forsee no problems at this time however.
Keep me informed.

[High Speed]

Originally posted by UberCree
Who's making em?
Once you have a final product get a pic done so we can spread the word.
I make them myself , HIGH SPEED GEAR INC. .
You can get them from myself or Lightfighter .
I specialize in Chest Harness as you can see one of mine on www.lightfighter.com . I also make some othe variants styles of the chest harnwess .
As of now , the Canadian FOO has tested my chest harness .

[cdn_airborne]

I'd definately be interested in a chest harness in that pattern. Will you also be making pouches so we can 'upgrade' our webbing to match the new clothes?

[Enfield]

Since the CRIC (well, BC Platoon) i ssupposed to get CADPAT uniforms next weekend I'm defintley into picking up some new stuff.
Cree, Can you get any kind of confirmation/ideas about what sort of non-issue kit we might be allowed?
I'd guess none, since as far as I know Tours always have to stay standardized.
I'd love to get one of TonyM's smocks and a CADPAT chest rig - but it's all pretty useless if I (and the rest of us) can't wear any of it for the next year.

Taking a look at the Lightfighter vests and the Israeli vests posted on the gear forum, the new Cdn vests are looking pretty lame... Can someone explain to me why we only need 4 mags??!!

[Lightfighter]

This is a picture of Jungle Stalker that I took. It is setting on top of an issued CADPAT individual camo screen. The colors are different, but close enough for government work.

http://media.bigstep.com/shop/4/59/4417594/upload/1011896629356.jpg

[TonyM]

That's some good lookin' shit, Lightfighter. Contact JTF and I'm sure you can sell them a truck load of gear right now.

Latest update:

Boris has some CADPAT material samples. We're choosing the fabric for the smocks, it's MILSPEC, ripstop and IRR treated so that might be a shade easier trying to pump it into the system. I didn't ask where it came from and I don't want to know. Packs and other gear will of course be 1000 den Cordura. Now the question of the day: Vests or chest rigs? Might have to go with the rigs for now as he hasn't sourced out any mesh yet.

[High Speed]

Here is a photo of one of the first "DENALI " chest harnesses I have just made in Jungle Stalker .

http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/5489407_20020131_132436_20020131132436.jpg

[cdn_airborne]

How much does that rig cost (CDN) and when can it be ordered? Which of your products will be offered in CADPAT? What is the brown thing on the left side next to the water bottle pouch?

Thanks.

[High Speed]

Originally posted by cdn_airborne
How much does that rig cost (CDN) and when can it be ordered? Which of your products will be offered in CADPAT? What is the brown thing on the left side next to the water bottle pouch?

Thanks.

First , this pattern is not CADPAT , nor MARPAT . It's a generic pattern . I can make gear in various color patterns ..
I am more of a custom gear maker , but specialize in the chest harness . I also make ghiliies suits , drop holsters , and ruck-modes . There has been alot of various pouches that I make , but more to custom for my customers .
On each of the canteen pouches , located on sides and front of , is 1 M-18 smoke (back/rear) , 2 frags( outer side ) and 1 pistol mag pouch ( next to M-16 mag. pouches . Also there is a compartment behind the canteen pouches for placement of a pistol or the M-7 bayonet (I can rig up upon request ).
You may order from me or Lightfighter .
Depending on what your needs /changes , prices may vary . Contact me or Lightfighter for prices .

[Disturbance]

That looks amazing man. If we can take that shite on CRIC (which I doubt) I am buying that for shizzo my nizzo.

[garett]

When my friend was on ROTO 3 with 2RCR he was up in the mountains where it was cold and had to have his sleeves rolled up because it was hot down in the lower areas where the rest of the batt. was. They wore cbt jackets with sleeves rolled up underneath. Thats how tight it can get but theres a difference to an extent depending on who you go over with.

[Disturbance]

yeah I realize that it aint gonna happen, but without hope what do you have?

[UberCree]

LOL, Thats the fuckin RCR for you! I highly doubt the CRIC will be that anal.
Anyway, I've asked the CRIC Coy Comd, we'll see what he says. I'll pass the word to you guys.

[TonyM]

I'd like one of those myself, but it may be even too 'commando" for me to get away with. Just so you guys know, we have no plans of making anything that sexy. In fact we want to try to clone as close as possible some of the new shit so you've got a chane of getting away with it. The new assault vest, for example, would be ok with more modular positions and 2 mags per pouch instead, and maybe a LARS pocket on the front like the brits do (anyone remember Battle Stripes?). Still like to have that rig though. How much is it? Damn, the Q would give birth seeing me wearing that!

[Enfield]

How similar is the DEnali to the "Silverthrone" shown on the website? Looks almost identical, but with more smaller pouches.
Personally, I don't know what I'd do with all those small pouches...

Some of the assaults vests look good too, but again, I can't think of what I'd do with such small pouches... maybe the CF has corrupted me into using anything smaller than a C9-pouch "hold all". I liked some of the Israeli vests and rigs that were posted on the Gear forum.

I like the Eagle rig on the lightfighter site, personally (looks very similar to rigs that alot of guys here wear). Or the Silverthrone.

I think us BC CRICkets meet the Platoon and Coy commander this weekend. And get CADPAT...woohoo...

[cdn_airborne]

Now that I look at the rig again I see that I wouldn't have a use for lots of those pouches. Grenades? nope. Lotsa ammo? nope. Ok, I need a few pouches for gucci kit, but I too like the c9/mess tin pouch size. Tony M, will you be making a simple chest rig (brit style) with just 3 mag pouches and 2 water/utility pouches on the sides like they sell at the Patricia kitshop? I think that would sell well because it's simple and wouldn't cost alot to produce.

[Disturbance]

Enfield if you compare what the silverthorne is like and the CADPAT one shown above they are almost the same set up. The Blackhawk DOAV seems pretty practical.

[UberCree]

I personally like all the smaller pockets because you can individualize your load. You can put light in one, pen flare in another, compass in another, flash bang in another, 12 GA shells in another etc. etc. etc. So your not digging around a big pouch looking for shit and having shit fall out in the dark.

So far word sounds good regarding wearing on ROTO 11. You may hear word this weekend.



HIGH SPEED! The bottom pockets zipper off right?

[Enfield]

Cree- I see your point. Personally, I find I never carry a very diverse selection of gear. It is however important that I be able to carry a TCCS radio, C9 box or two, 5 mags, a canteen, and a pouch for misc stuff like gloves, toque, etc.

[garett]

Don't forget porno mag, and for Enfield a newspaper.

[FNG]

Garrett, you MUST buy this chest rig then. From the pics I've seen, there is a transparent map pocket you can put all your pornos in. Just think about the easy access... unzip the chest rig, unzip something else... talk about luxury.

[High Speed]

Sorry guys , been busy and away !
I've followed your post and to answer some of your questions as far as the load out on my rigs .
First to clear up the difference between the Silverthrone and the Denali . They are almost identical but the Denali has one (1)more feature (with the option of 2 different inserts ). That feature is the Denali has another zippered pouch directly behind the M-16 mag pouches . In this compartment , the option of 2 inserts . One being a smaller map essientual insert and the other a 60 rounds of 12 guage shotgun shell holder . How do you like this Desert Tiger Stripe ?
http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/8794900_20020201_175519_20020201175519.jpg
http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/4063265_20020201_211025_20020201211025.jpg
Behind the inserts is more storage for your dirty books ! or air panels , MRE's , med kits , etc.....

It has 2 / 2quart canteen pouches that can also hold a M-249 saw drum or bino's . 2/M-18 smokes , 4 pistol mag pouches , 4 frag. pouches , 3/4-M-16 mag pouches , 1/sabre radio pouch (on top over mag pouches or can be use for compass and strobe light ) , 4 mesh pockets next to body , space behind M-16 pouches to hold flat gear like emerg. mirror to cammie paint .
, space behind canteen pouches to hold pistol .Even has a set of pace counting beads on top of saber radio pouch .
Removeable bottom section to hold sling rope or poucho with 2 pouches for med kit or misc. gear
Main body zippers open to reveal another large map essientuals insert . It has 5 pockets , 6/pen pockets and elastic loop for minimag light or chem light .
You can see in the picture what the smaller insert can hold . 6/pen pocket , 1 pocket for book , 1/GPS pouch , and 1 map compartment .
It has also 4 D-rings on bottom of main body to attach gas mask to drop pouches .
There are more spaces and uses one could imagine . I have made these chest rigs also to fit the G-3 and I am working on making for the AK also .
Since the Denali has 2 map compartments , that at least 2 porno mags ! Plenty of pouches for cosmoliene . Damn , Maybe I made it to darn SEXY ! LOL

[Infanteer]

That is the coolest fucking thing I have ever seen...sign me up.

[Bill P.]

That's the most well thought out LBV I've ever seen! Excellent design, carrying capacity, and a place to store ones' field porn! HighSpeed if you can make this in CADPAT, I'm interested! Mind you some of us are in this boat where if we ever showed up wearing a rig like that, the crusty CSM would tear us a new butthole ASAP! Mind you in the regiment I'm joining, I'll soon find out what the word is on gucci kit! The latest doodles I've come up with are something that can enhance the soon to be issued LBV:

1) A "Pals Adaptor Panel" Basically its really simple! 2 pieces of 6X7 Cadpat cordura. The first piece would have velcro backing, and straps that can be secured to the velcro/buckles on the LBV(check out Murphquake's Cadpat LBV site!) The second piece would have O/D Pals webbing sewn onto it, for the attachment of pouches(various) The 2 pieces would be sewn together, forming a flat panel that can be placed where normally the C-9/Canteen pouch would be on the LBV.
2) A combat web belt. A padded 3 1/4 wide, 3/4 inch thick belt with 2 rows of O/D Pals webbing. Very similar to the TT padded modular belt, but in Cadpat, and with a 5 1/4 inch wide "centre of back" lumbar section( with an added row of Pals webbing for a total of 3 rows in the "lumbar pad" It would also come with q/r removeable straps so that it can be secured to the LBV, via its D-rings.From there more pouches can be added to increase carrying capacity. It can also be worn by itself with holstered sidearm/mag pouches etc...
I've tried scanning these to disk, but they don't e-mail to well. I'm using AOL&HOTMAIL but the image files are huge, the e-mail service cannot accept them!!
Well it's late, I'm going out drinking..nite all!

[High Speed]

The thought of using PALS webbing on my chest harness has been considered . And rejected many times by my Marine customers . But not to say it may be done in the future . Being modular has it's advantages and has alot more dissadvantages . Number one is stress on the gear , noisy , snags , and beats you to death . That's why I made my chest harness fixed pouches . I also made it's design to meet various MOS's .
There's a saying I use in the shop while talking to my customer , " I might build a pouch for peanuts , but in a week or two after using . You will have cheese and crackers in them ."
Making the pouches to fit various and multiple gear .
I have made and going to make a Padded belt to fit under the chest rig to carry both ALICE and PALS webbing . I'll post it here when I finish .
This will also be in Jungle Stalker .

[murphquake]

I love you guys =-D

thanks for the big up on my site... nothing special just some pics Andyboy sent me to put up for him. What are the pics of the belt and pals side adapters made in? I usually do my dirtywork in MS paint and then save the files as JPGs... Gene must hate me... showing the DTS rig off... must control credit card... cannot afford it... Gene pray I/we win the lottery =-)
-bill

[High Speed]

Murph ,
Man I thought I was doing you a favor trying to hide . Looking after your best interest trying to save your money . It's a bummer I did not get pictures of the 3 Color Desert and the OVTS , but I'm making more ! I just finished my modification to my drop holsters . Now I have a flap attachment for them . LOOKIE HERE !This DTS also . Either you get a better job or more CC's . The rate your going , your going to be left behind ! You win that lottery , there is going to be more freinds you can shake a stick at , and I mean a big stick !

http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/9090761_20020202_170434_20020202170434.jpg
http://www.photogra.com/galleries/35186/curr/5235686_20020202_170434_20020202170434.jpg

[Bill P.]

Murphquake,
Great site on the Cadpat/Marpat stuff that's coming out soon??
The pixs for the Cadpat belt&Pals side adaptors I designed are actually scanned images of my drawings on graph paper. I tried sending them to TonyM, but issues with AOL/Hotmail mades it a problem! Will scan images again, and use a different format to try and post on this forum(first time, never done this before!) If not, then will try MS Paint & go from there!
BillP

[murphquake]

BillP, how's this? this is what i see when i read your descriptions (5 mins in mspaint =-)
-bill
P.S. Gene almost forgot: I LOVE THE FLAP!!! you are a bonafide gear genius =-) one q? fer ya... are the rigs weapon specific or is there some latitude for similar size blasters?

[High Speed]

Bill ,
What type of blaster you have ? So far on my holsters I've been getting orders to fit the Baretta 9 mm , 1911 , Glock , and Browning Hi-Power . All would fit into this size of hoslter . I have done a couple for the Desert Eagle and even ( beleive it or not ! ) Derringer , LOL . There'a few more I have made for , but forgot as I make as needed . Right now , I have about 30 holsters in the shop to finish today . All spoken for .
I went through Georgia last week and forgot to pick up a lottery ticket . All well , If I were to win the lottery myself . I would party to much to make gear ! But a new gear factory looks pretty good !
High Speed

[Per Ardua]

How about including good size pit zips in the smock so you dont sweat to death.

[Bill P.]

Bill
That's pretty much it! Your versions of The Pals adaptor, and Cadpat belt are very close to what I have here. Just some ideas I've had to increase the capacity of the new Cdn LCV(while keeping the "gucci" factor low!), as well as the removeable pouches concept I talked about a few posts back.
BillP

[Infanteer]

ok...last one, I just wanna gather this shit togeather so I can read it all again...