Military Freefall Training

[TonyM]

Warning Order

I need 8 more guys interested in a Military Freefall course this spring in Edmonton. We'll be setting up a Military Parachuting Club open to reg & res to handle the admin. No idea on cost yet, but it won't be cheap. I'll post more details as plans, costs and dates are firmed up. Jumpmasters will be Canadian Military, Brit Para and US Special Forces. THIS WILL NOT RESULT IN AWARDING OF OFFCIAL FREEFALL WINGS. However I've requested that all CF PO/EO's be covered.

Shoot me back emails asap.

[garett]

Quit screwing with my head.....

[enderr]

how do you plan on getting CT-6s? And are you aware that Canada doesn't do Oxygen jumps.

[TonyM]

All equipment will be provided by Military Parachuting Tours. Now if I can convince Cree Warrior to be the course officer.... he can run the PT like he's always wanted. Enderr-
Do you have a CF freefall course outline I can get a look at?

[This message has been edited by TonyM (edited 10-15-2001).]

[Marauder]

Can you ballpark the cost and date any?
Do you have to be static line qual'd to try it?
If I can swing the cost and the date is open, then I might try, but please take this as a VERY *tentative* type of thing.

[TonyM]

Small snag. MPT will do it, but Mr. Krott tells me they only put on courses for military personell that result in an official award or wing. They're checking to see who can come and do this here. Or they may just go ahead anyway as we'll all be current military and open it up to other NATO guys. Maybe we should make up our own CF Reserve Freefall club wing? Ha! wouldn't that be great. Make it huge like one of those Apollo moon mission patches. All kinds of comets and things.

Secondly, anyone catch Scott Taylor on that Bynon talk show last night? He was slamming (as usual) the DND pretty hard. Made some good points, though. Talked a little about JTF2. "These guys went green back in 94-95. They're like the SAS or Delta. They've done counter-sniper operations in Bosnia, deep recconasiance in Kosovo and other things. They've killed people. They're our best and the media or the public dosn't know anything about them."

You'd think that little statement in there "They've killed people" would bring on the media bloodhounds. Nope. Not even a "Can you expand on that Mr Taylor...". In fact she didn't even break stride. Wanted to know how hard the separation will be on the Navy families.

[King]

You mentioned Taylor and the JTF2 which raises something that I have long wanted to post about.

In his book Tested Mettle Taylor consistantly criticizes the JTF2. He was pissed because the unit always seems to have lots of money to conduct realistic (he said it was dangerous) training while the rest of the Forces makes do with shit. He called them an SAS, rambo, macho-type unit that Canada has no need for. Yet now he calls them "our best."

But if you still need to hear a military affairs journalist bash the JTF2, just read the few articles Peter Worthington has written for the Sun newspapers. The last one he did was pretty awful. He said of American SOF that they had the toys but lacked the know how. Then he listed all of America's failures (Eagle Claw, Panama, Somalia) and said that Britain has the best commandos in the world. He seemes pretty ignorant, when he listed the British units he named the British Commandos (whoever that might be), the SAS Troopers, Gurkhas, and the Royal Marines (most Royal Marines are not in a SF role) AND he forgot the SBS.

Oh well, that's just something I wanted to vent.

[garett]

I got to listen to Maj. Gen. MacKenzie vent last Saturday night. He made some damn interesting points.

[TonyM]

Could never understand why he didn't get into politics after his retirement. He'd of made a good PM. Didn't he try journalism for a while? I think I saw him doing a CBC documentary once.

[King]

He ran for the Tories in 1997 somewhere in Ontario.

[TonyM]

Ontario? How'd he do? I always though he lived in Calgary.

[enderr]

MacKenzie ran for the PC in the Parry Sound riding, I think. And TonyM, your best bet is to ask your Ops to call CPC and get a Course Training Plan from them, I know for a fact that we don't have any copies here in Toronto. You might be able to order a copy on the DIN.

[enderr]

One more thing, if you can't get the Canadian CTP, then just run an American course, atleast then guys could actually earn "freefall wings". Besides, American freefall wings look pretty cool.

[TonyM]

Yup, looks like it's gonna be a US course. Should be a blast. You in? Or you already done that?

[King]

Andy Mitchell Lib 17,750 41.6% (Incumbent)
Lewis MacKenzie PC 11,435 26.8%
Peter Spadzinski Ref 10,910 25.6%
Carl Wirth NDP 1,700 4.0%
Glen Hodgson Grn 513 1.2%
Jackie Raney CAP 236 0.6%
Rick Alexander NL 134 0.3%

This was in the riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka. It was a Tory lock before 1993. I remember hearing that the General didn't get along well with the local media. The Liberal was a banker.

[TonyM]

Just watching Mackenzie on Rivera. He's still on the ball. Him and Hackworth chatting like old drinking buddies and sorting out the strategic situation like real troops. Anyone see Geraldo lately? I thought the guy was a liberal peacenik type. Wow, has he changed!

[TonyM]

Quick update:

I'm going to Edmonchuk Dec to meet with Mr Krott to go over the plans and course outline. At this point it still looks like April-May.

Of interest:
I've done a search of the CFAO's and found some interesting facts. ANY military training is eligible for authorization to wear the applicable specialist badge, on approval by DND. ie:
a jump from a CF aircraft is not the requirement for CF para wings. Completion of a "military parachuting course" is.
ref: http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/055-10_e.asp

Also CF recognizes civy freefall training, it meets the eligibilty requirements for the parachute display team. Don't believe everything the mess experts tell you.

[garett]

Are there more Dutch jump courses coming up?

[TonyM]

Ahh..a perceptive man. Yes, next one will be in May or June 2002, I'll get the exact dates (is that going to conflict with your phase III garett?) The RNLA is providing full documentation, including jump manifests and a fancy letter, for all Canadians on the course.

[enderr]

Dutch wings, cool, and nope; they don't give militia bums courses like MFP, atleast not yet. Which is why I'm doing a component transfer[maybe then i could sell my soul and get on a cool course like that]. Pretty crazy times, my unit is going to lose 8 or 9 guys all experienced Cpls, Para Pl will be decimated.

[garett]

Phase 3 starts the beginning of June. I've been told that I have a chance at a jump course but I'm not going to keep my fingers crossed. If I pass phase 3 (the last one) then you can multiply my chances by 10.

I'm interested in the Dutch jump thing but I wouldn't have the money unless I get that tuition money back thingy. I'm thinking of doing a pathfinder course followed by a ranger course in my month off so I don't know.............. I might be able to squeeze it in between my ranger course and ruck marching to Orlando and back. I do have a month to do all that in so we'll see.

[TonyM]

Does anyone know of a formed CF Military Parachute Club in LFWA? CO's are entitled to approve of one under CFAO's, but res membership is limited, (meaning we can only join a current reg force one).

[garett]

Hey Tony, whos the contact again for the Dutch Course? If its in May then I'd have a good shot at going.

[TonyM]

Contact Robb Krott at para6@hotmail.com or I'll have him contact you as I'll be seeing him Dec 14/15.

[TonyM]

Latest info from Rob Krott:
"What I envision for a "freefall training program run locally (Edmonton)would be a AFF
or PFF program seasoned with additional instruction from MFF qualified
people I know from the garrison and "guest" instructor from US SF. Obviously it's a long learning curve for a serious skill level
(something I'm still working at). So my objectives for students in this
course would be completion of AFF or PFF with a head start on earning a
Canadian A license (freefall) with instruction by military MFF on its
applications. I can set up the "HALO" course in europe which would generate badges
(parachutist badge and HALO badge), but the actual level of freefall instruction would vary according to level of student experience. And the gear would be theirs. Anyone with a freefall A license could hop and pop 3 jumps at, say, 9,000 feet for a badge... the idea is to actually learn
something. Anyway, Dates for Holland Jump School tentatively set: 26 May (Sun) to 02
June (Sun). Get me a group and I can get a better price for the Canucks"

--------
We're looking at making this availible for non-jumpers and getting the costs as reasonable as possible. I'm envisioning a 2 part thing here. Basic freefall, no oxy, etc here (getting a Cnd license) then for those that can afford it the military HALO portion later overseas. That way the costs are spread out a bit because if no one can afford it, no one will do it. I'm like the rest of the rat race: I keep score in dollars. Ideas anyone?

[farseer]

i'm doing the para course from jan. 21 to feb 8 and would love some extra jumps, Sign me up for anything that happens before april 2002. After that is workup.

[garett]

Shitty, Phase 3 starts end of May/beginning of June.

[TonyM]

Is there still phase training? Can you get time off?

"End the shame, stop being a leg"-Military Paracuting Tours

[This message has been edited by TonyM (edited 12-06-2001).]

[garett]

I'm on the last Phase 3 for reservists so its do or die. Ocdts will now not go through Phase training starting this summer. This decision was probably made by some senior officer that didn't get top candidate because some Mo guy got it. The Empire strikes back.

[TonyM]

Latest update:

Talked to Rob Krott (check out his article in SOF this month about Afghanistan) last week. Tentative date will be 1st or 2nd week in April, costs for 1st phase to be kept around $1000.00 depending on aircraft used. The bigger the airplane, the more it'll be. More news as it happens.

Also, he's trying to get as many jump-qualified guys together for the June5/6 Normandy jump (full WWII kit) if anyone is interested. It'll be a big one with the brit para's and US airborne.

[garett]

You know if the article in SOF is the same as in Combat and Survival?

[TonyM]

No idea. Never heard of that one. Is it any good, or one of those cheesy US survivalist type things? He also does articles for Airborne Magazine, which is mostly good historic stuff. Last one was about the 82nd's daylight river crossing at Njimegan. Those guys took a beating.

[garett]

Combat and Survival is a Brit Mag. I get it at Chapters every month, they just finished a 4 issue special on German FIBUA and a 5 issue on Ghurkha jungle warfare.
Heres the link to their website: http://www.maipublications.co.uk/combat/index.htm