Israeli chosen sniper rifle

[Yossi]

The Israeli long range infantry shooting SWS is the M24 while the SF close shooting SWS is the Mauser SR82.

I was wondering which is the better SWS?

since they are both bolt action rifles why not use one SWS for both types of shooting, hence saving money on logistics issues as well as receiving higher quantity discount?
Further more, doesn't the SR82's external magazine is a tactical advantage compare to the internal magazine of the M24, especially considering the Israeli sniping quick follow up shots technique, rather then the sniper/spotter one?

Thanks in advance

Yossi

[G.I.Joe]

Yossi,
the infos I get (no 100% sure) are bad news,Mauser company was sold and so stopped to produce sniper rifles.
Anyway the Mauser rifles are/were much less military-"proof" than the SWS M24,and much heavier,so that's why israelis got both.
Good shooting and ciao

[JY]

Hi Yossie;

The SR82 is an older system built to European sniping standards which consider the max range to be 600 meters. This is why they use the 6X scopes, good to 600 meters, as a standard issue. The M24 is considered a long range SWS and built to modern sniping standards of employment to 1000 meters with it's 10X40mm day optic.

In a city setting the SR82 is capable of handling most situations with it's magazine being an asset for multiple targets and fast reloading. But it will suffer in more open spaces at longer ranges and become a handicap. A sniper does not fire more than three shots from one position, and generally will only fire once. Firing more will give the enemy a good fix on your location, not a healthy move. For actual sniping the M24 is superior at longer ranges and it's internal box magazine is acceptable.

In actual use the M24 can handle both situations equally well, so IMHO the M24 is the superior SWS.

Take care, my friend...Jim

[Yossi]

Thanks for the two replies. That clears that one up.

However, I fail to understand something - why aren't all the bolt action rifles, like the M24, build with external magazines? It seems like the ideal, enabling both singles shots at long ranges and faster multiple reloads at closer, more SWAT like, ones?

Also, it was my impression that unlike the M24, which is a mill spec upgraded sporting rile, that the Mauser was build from scratch as a target/sniping rifle?

BTW, JY, do you happen to have pics of Israeli snipers? You can always blacken their faces if there's an identity issue and post them in SOCAHT or in the sniping photos galleries in this site's Israeli section. As such pics are quire rare I'm sure they'll come in handy.

Thanks again

Yossi

[Yossi]

BTW, according to snipercentral.com, the Mauser 86SR (a later introduced variant of the 82SR) is weighting 4.9 kg without the scope while the M24 weights 5.5 without scope. That means it's half a kg lighter.

[JY]

Hi Yossie;


The big problem with detachable box magazines were they weakened the receiver by requiring a large section of the bottom of the receiver to be removed(normaly internal magazines have the feed lips and such as part of the receiver giving additional strength, with detachable the feed lips are part of the magazine removing them from the receiver resulting in less ridgidity). This caused them to flex more degrading accuracy. Newer technology has eliminated much of this and currently the M24TC being tested has a removable box mag. What can be said about the new M24TC is it has a titanium receiver(giving more strength and rigidity )and a composite barrel. A new caliber is also being looked at, the 7mm ULRS based on the Remington .300 UltraMag case. This 7mm round is producing good accuracy well beyond 1200 meters along with good terminal performance thus bettering the .300WM.

The actual action used in the M24 and M40 series rifles is commonly called the Remington M700, but is actually the Remington 40X a target rifle receiver. This is evident on the M40 USMC receivers by the presence of the target shooters clip slotted receiver and on the M24 by the Palma rear sight attachment base on the left rear(USMC scope bases use the clip slot as an anchor, US Army bases are one piece using bolts to anchor. Due to that fact the Army receivers eliminate the clip slot in favor of more receiver bridge to bolt into. And Marine rifles have no provisions(normally) for the rear sight. So while similar to the sporting rifle they are not the same in specs or quality.

I think part of the demise of the Mauser SWS was the adoption of the AI AW by the German Armed Forces. The AW is truly the best SWS in use today and adopted by the most world players of any in use today. This is a true purpose built SWS not a modified sport/target weapon, things are developing in reverse with this one with target and varmint rifles being developed from it. Plus some European mfg's are using it's features to improve their sporting/target rifles to SWS's.Having been behind the butt plate of most of the SWS's in use today for the past 20+ years, it's my choice for the best(expensive but the best).Liked it enough to grab one of the first entering the US as a personal rifle putting my money where my mouth is so to speak.

Take care, my friend...Jim

[G.I.Joe]

Originally posted by Yossi:
BTW, according to snipercentral.com, the Mauser 86SR (a later introduced variant of the 82SR) is weighting 4.9 kg without the scope while the M24 weights 5.5 without scope. That means it's half a kg lighter.

Yossi,
while we are just switched to the AW series we already have some Mauser with the Zeiss Orion NVD in our inventory,I have had it in my hands more than one time and,believe me,it's much heavier than the M24,you bet.

[baboon]

Jim-
has the US military made any evaluation of the AW? Has it seen any service with US SOF or is the " not made here " syndrome still ruling?

[JY]

Hi baboon;

There have been some informal tests made with the AW series, but with the US Army locked into the M24 not much has come from it.

The biggest hurdle for any weapon not made in the US is getting a production plant built here. FN and Beretta both now have plants here, Beretta for the M9 and FN for the MAG58, Minimi, and M16A2 rifles. AI currently has a limited production facility, but it is not capable of producing complete weapons at this time. If this expands to full production I think serious consideration would be given to the AW, with the AW becomming the standard amoung most of our allies a wise move in my book(a little prejudiced maybe, I rate it the best). As with any weapon in current use in the world SOF forces have them at hand in some arms rooms.

Take care baboon...Jim