M-852 or M-118LR

[Glen]

Do any of the pros out there know if the LR is better than M-852? If so why, group size, less wind drift, etc. I working up a handload for my 700P and don't know which load I should try and match. Also, does anyone know if the US is useing any bullets over 175 gr. in the 7.62 cart? Thanks for your help.

[JY]

Hi Glen;

The M118LR was developed to match the ballistics of the Special Ball M118 173gr that has some problems with bullets being out of spec. The bullet was replaced with the Sierra 175gr match becoming the M118LR.

Out to app. 600 meters the M118LR and M852 perform very close, beyond that the 175gr M118LR out performs the 168 gr M852 by the following.

Round range drop

M852 600m 5 in

M118LR 600m 4.5 in

M852 700m 5.5 in

M118LR 700m 5.0 in

M852 800m 6.5 in

M118LR 800m 5.5 in

M852 900m 7.5 in

M118LR 900m 6.0 in

M852 1000m 8.5 in

M118LR 1000m 7.0 in

Also at 1000m the M852 in a 13mph full value wind will drift 16.5 inches while the M118LR will frift 14.0 inches. Use of the 175 in effect extends the accuracy from 800m with the M852 to 900-1000m with the M118LR. These are all dope book figures actual performance will vary from rifle to rifle. But I have found them to be very close to the perfromance of my M24 and M86 SWS.

Bullets heavier than 175gr in the 7.62X51mm have been used for suppressed weapons and some special application uses. But you start getting diminishing returns in range as you approach the 200 gr mark. The .300WM has been using the 190-220 gr Sierra match bullets with great success extending useful ranges to 1200m. I have used M86LA .300WM rifles that will maintain sub 1/2 moa all day with those bullets.

Think the best load to match would be the M118LR with the 175gr Sierra match bullet with MV of 2600Fps. This is the issue M118LR standards, matches the M852 to 600 then passes it up to 900-1000m.

If I can help further please feel free to ask,take care...Jim

[RifleMaster]

Glen,

If you want to out perform the M118LR, workup your load for 2600 MV with the Berger .30 cal. 175 gr. VLD bullet. The Berger 175 gr. VLD bullet has a BC of .537 compared with the Sierra 175 gr. MK's BC of .485 . The berger 175 gr. VLD will retain more velocity and the higher retained velocity will result in less wind drift and drop at all ranges. For example, in a 10 MPH wind the Berger 175 gr. VLD will drift 11 to 12% less, i.e., 11 inches less at 1,000 yards. The Berger 175 gr. VLD will also drop 6% less at 500 yards and 9 1/2% less at 1,000 yards.

Just something to consider!

Oh, to obtain the best accurracy, seat your selected bullet .005 to .008 inch off the rifling lands.

Keep holding'em hard!

RifleMaster/Carl

PS: You will have to trade-off MV when using heavier than 175 bullets in the 7.62mm (.308) case. You can get some great performance with heavier VLD bullets. I get very good performance with Berger 190 gr. VLD bullets in my M1 Garand!

[This message has been edited by RifleMaster (edited 09-30-2000).]

[Glen]

Hi Jim, thanks for the reply. You made up my mind, I'll use the 175gr. Sierra bullet for my handloads.

[Glen]

Hi Carl, I think I'll try both bullets, the sierra and berger. I like your idea about bullet seating depth and accuracy but I will not be able to seat my bullets out that far. I want them to feed in the mag., which will limit my OAL. You must be a handloader. What do you think of H-4895 for this load? Thanks for the help.

Glen

[RifleMaster]

Glen,

Yes, I have been handloading high powder rifle ammo since 1972. I still use my original RCBS Rockchucker press.

H4895 is a good powder. A lot of people use it in competition gas guns. Gas guns require a specific op-rod pressure, and that eliminates several good powders. I mostly use IMR4064 in my M1 Garand and M1A.

In my opinion, the powders that meet the following parameters will give the best accuracy (in gas or bolt guns). 1) Has a medimum burn rate. 2) Does not vary significantly with temperature changes (ambient temperatures affect MV but you do not want the powder to significnatly add to the variation). 3) Good powder density, i.e., fills 75-90% of the case. 4) Burns clean, i.e., causes the least mount of powder fouling.

I would consider the following powders. H4895, Varget, IMR4064, Reloader 15 (RE-15), H4350 (short grain). I would also use Federal 210M Match primers because they're between Winchester and Remington in ignition heat.

Remember to always follow SAFE reloading practices!

My favorite sniping round is a 155mm!

Keep Holding'em Hard!

RifleMaster/Carl