View Full Version : MA legislation to ban and criminalize circumcision
This is not a joke. The intrusion of the government into private citizens' lives is astounding. Don't want to get your baby boy snipped? Fine. I'll go ahead and do it since medical professionals I've dealt with considers the risks lower than the benefits incurred. I am constantly amazed, yet not suprised by people's ability to take up causes that are baseless and get legislation passed to force their insanity down our throats. Apparently, if passed, a violation of this law could get you 14 years in prison! Leave it up to the parents for god sakes.
Yet another reason why I would not want to live in Massachusetts...:mad::rolleyes:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1234372
Won't pass the constitutionality test; a very short lived bill that will cost the state money. The guy pushing the bill should STFU; he needs to leave people alone.
. The guy pushing the bill should STFU; he needs to leave people alone.
Yep. If he's so concerned then why not spend his efforts educating people, offering advice, building a webpage, reaching out to Doctors and the medical community, and so on and so forth and simply work to change people's attitudes about it, rather than ramming shit down everyone's throats through legislation?
Dumbass.
Tom Deam
3 March 2010, 13:53
Reading the linked article provides a better idea of what has happened. The proposed legislation was filed under the "Free Right to Petition" MA citizens have under the Commonwealths Constitution. The citizen's State Senator filed it as required and did not even comment on it. The Title for the article states; Plan to ban circumcision a longshot. Other than the organization behind the proposed legislation, there is nothing to fear.
It's going nowhere and not serious enough to loose sleep over.
I want the government to leave my foreskin alone!
Won't pass the constitutionality test; a very short lived bill that will cost the state money. The guy pushing the bill should STFU; he needs to leave people alone.
I hope you're right about the constitutionality test. Couldn't agree more about the STFU request...
Tom Deam:
Indeed it may be a long shot, but to me there is the principle issue. My point in posting was to show another example of possible government intrusion and waste (of time and money).
Grateful Civilian
3 March 2010, 14:06
Ah yes...I'm so proud of my state :rolleyes:
Must be something in the air this week. Monday there was some group at the State House trying to drum up support for a petition to ban the use of the word "retard" in all forms of communication. The joke writes itself, no?
Hiking Dad
3 March 2010, 14:29
the snip decreases sexual stimulation? Sorry, I have NO complaints about the stimulation I feel...got snipped as an infant. Didn't walk for a year afterwards, but other than that I don't have any issues.
My three sons are all circumcised, they're not complaining either.
ComputerForensicGuy
3 March 2010, 15:01
There is a 1 percent risk of complications, mostly mild bleeding, said Wang, director of newborn nurseries at MassGeneral Hospital for Children. Benefits include a reduced risk of urinary tract infections and penile cancer.
If Dr. Wang says it's ok, I'm going with him as the subject matter expert.
OldSwabbie
3 March 2010, 15:18
This is the problem with this Country.. too many IDIOTS running around trying to legislate every single facet of our lives.
If Dr. Wang says it's ok, I'm going with him as the subject matter expert.
Best... name... ever...
I think I can beat that one and this is 100% on the level. When I was in HS, there was a kid on the football team w/ the last name of Wiwi (yup, pronounced just like you think). His dad (or uncle but I think dad) was a well-known and well-respected UROLOGIST in town- Dr. Wiwi. :biggrin: True story.
The guy pushing the bill should STFU; he needs to leave people alone.
But he's basically pushing a bill that says, "hey - leave people alone".
Isn't he?
At least to the extent that circumcising people can be considered "doing something" to them and not circumcising them would be considered "leaving them alone".
If "leaving people alone" is the standard, you kind of have to support this guy's effort.
No?
MeatLasagna
3 March 2010, 17:32
Just FYI, for those of you who never had the choice, they make foreskin restorers. Just don't ask me how you put it on. :biggrin:
EchoFiveMike
3 March 2010, 17:38
I could see a law banning female circumcision, but that's a whole separate procedure.
The religions which make male circumcision part of their ritual will take this straight to the courts if it passes. And likely win. S/F.....Ken M
I think I can beat that one and this is 100% on the level. When I was in HS, there was a kid on the football team w/ the last name of Wiwi (yup, pronounced just like you think). His dad (or uncle but I think dad) was a well-known and well-respected UROLOGIST in town- Dr. Wiwi. :biggrin: True story.
I can do one better. There was an OBGYN in the town I grew up in named Dr Cherry.
MacDuff
3 March 2010, 17:57
But he's basically pushing a bill that says, "hey - leave people alone".
Isn't he?
At least to the extent that circumcising people can be considered "doing something" to them and not circumcising them would be considered "leaving them alone".
If "leaving people alone" is the standard, you kind of have to support this guy's effort.
No?
:rolleyes:
I'm hoping this is sarcasam...
Otherwise it's not quite about being left alone, it's about freedom of choice. Personally I don't care whether or not someone get part of their dick chopped off. I do care whether or not I'm able to exercise my freedom of choice in the matter.
As E5M said though, most likely this would go to court if it somehow happened to pass. There's no way that Jews and many Christians would stand for this when circumcision is proscribed as a part of the religion.
random
3 March 2010, 18:14
I could see a law banning female circumcision, but that's a whole separate procedure.
I doubt the US would even need a law to prosecute people who do that. It's a cruel, painful, and completely unnecessary procedure that would most likely open up the adults to child abuse/endangerment cases.
:rolleyes:
I'm hoping this is sarcasam...
Otherwise it's not quite about being left alone, it's about freedom of choice. Personally I don't care whether or not someone get part of their dick chopped off. I do care whether or not I'm able to exercise my freedom of choice in the matter.
As E5M said though, most likely this would go to court if it somehow happened to pass. There's no way that Jews and many Christians would stand for this when circumcision is proscribed as a part of the religion.
Sup Jeb!
Maybe not sarcasm so much as tit-for-tat.
And for the reason you mentioned.
Religion.
And, again, because I'd like to see things to STANDARD.
Maybe I'm diverting this thread away from it's original topic too far, and if so anyone who has a God Gun (no pun intended) feel free to shoot me, but I think this opinion is as political as it is (ir)religious.
But my point is that if it's REALLY "about freedom of choice" then it has to be about freedom of choice - under the law - across the board.
Not:
You CAN'T choose to marry (or insert any other damn thing religion says can't do) because my religion says so, but I CAN choose to trim my kid's schwantz a little bit... because my religion says so and besides this country/system/government/democracy/constitutional republicanism is about "freedom of choice".
If you want to live within the dictates of your religion then get on with your bad self. But don't force everyone else to do it too.
None of which is to say I have anything against religion per se, because I'm a practicing Roman Catholic.
Or that I have anything against circumcision per se, because I'm circumcised and I chose to have my son snipped too.
Just that I think that religious legislation is GAY.
Drop me a PM brother. Let me know how you and Tim are doing.
ender_wiggins
3 March 2010, 22:22
“For some reason society feels fit to make surgical amputations to somebody’s body without their consent,” said Antonelli, 43. “It’s really a personal choice. Most people think this is a harmless snip of useless tissue. It’s by far not.”
Antonelli, who is the Massachusetts chapter leader for Hess’ group, says he became involved in the anti-circumcision movement because he was physically damaged by circumcision.
I don't recall anyone asking my consent prior to cutting my umbilical chord. I was pretty attached to that placenta.
MacDuff
3 March 2010, 22:41
And for the reason you mentioned.
Religion.
And, again, because I'd like to see things to STANDARD.
Maybe I'm diverting this thread away from it's original topic too far, and if so anyone who has a God Gun (no pun intended) feel free to shoot me, but I think this opinion is as political as it is (ir)religious.
But my point is that if it's REALLY "about freedom of choice" then it has to be about freedom of choice - under the law - across the board.
Not:
You CAN'T choose to marry (or insert any other damn thing religion says can't do) because my religion says so, but I CAN choose to trim my kid's schwantz a little bit... because my religion says so and besides this country/system/government/democracy/constitutional republicanism is about "freedom of choice".
If you want to live within the dictates of your religion then get on with your bad self. But don't force everyone else to do it too.
None of which is to say I have anything against religion per se, because I'm a practicing Roman Catholic.
Or that I have anything against circumcision per se, because I'm circumcised and I chose to have my son snipped too.
Just that I think that religious legislation is GAY.
I see where you're coming from and I was thinking about that when I wrote my reply earlier.
Something like Santeria with their ritual sacrifice or Rastifarianism and their pot smoking is a gray area for me...I don't particularly like pot smoking or animal sacrifice because I find it distasteful but like you I believe that people should be able to practice their religion as they see fit. Just because I don't like or agree with it doesn't mean that they should not be able to worship in the manner they like.
Like I said earlier I don't like to have others force their ideas upon me and that goes both ways, I shouldn't force my ideas upon others.
As I see it, religions should be allowed to do as they please so long as they don't affect others in a negative manner.
Just FYI, for those of you who never had the choice, they make foreskin restorers. Just don't ask me how you put it on. :biggrin:
Would it add valuable real estate to my circumsized peninsula? If so, I'm game...
:smile:
Medic4070
3 March 2010, 23:36
The guy pushing the bill should STFU; he needs to leave people alone.
Wow...talk about a new theme for Congress! ;)
10thvet
3 March 2010, 23:46
Freedom of Choice: Do it or dont do it...it's up to you and your DR
Criminalized: Do it and go to jail...no matter what your religion or DR says.
When my son was circumsized, my then wife(now ex) was given the choice to either do it or not.
It just goes to show you how some ppl will TRY to push their ideas on society. I am going to plagerize this next setance since I am not sure where I heard it from but like it anyway.
"I dont like meat, so I dont eat meat...You dont like meat and are going to crimialize the eating of meat for everyone"
MeatLasagna
4 March 2010, 00:07
Would it add valuable real estate to my circumsized peninsula? If so, I'm game...
:smile:
I don't know about real estate, but what woman doesn't enjoy a nice game of peek-a-boo?
diehard
4 March 2010, 00:09
Freedom of Choice: Do it or dont do it...it's up to you and your DR
When my son was circumsized, my then wife(now ex) was given the choice to either do it or not.
It just goes to show you how some ppl will TRY to push their ideas on society.
I've sat through a number of lectures on this as well as the topic of female mutilation. There is a rather vocal group of healthcare providers that are in complete agreement with you... it should be a matter of free choice. It just shouldn't be YOUR choice. It should be your sons. When he is old enough to weigh the pros and cons.
So in essence, your wife/dr made a choice that your son will never be able to reverse. You electively modified his body without his input.
There would be universal outrage if your ex decided to give him a tattoo at that stage of his life.
In actuality, this is a very libertarian take on personal freedom.
Baildog
4 March 2010, 00:27
Antonelli, who is the Massachusetts chapter leader for Hess’ group, says he became involved in the anti-circumcision movement because he was physically damaged by circumcision.
the truth comes out.
GackMan
4 March 2010, 00:31
I guess mine is pre-ban...
10thvet
4 March 2010, 02:03
Well...as a parent I did a lot of things for my children without their consent under the advice of my DR(other professionals). vaccinations, education, eating right, excercise, discipline are just a few...
Blackjack7
4 March 2010, 02:34
This asshole should STFU and stay in his own state, The article says he has tried this in 14 states and so far none have adopted it. Why does he think he needs to force this down everyone's throat (no pun intended) just because he couldn't get it up. He's trying to soothe his ego by blaming everyone else. It must have been something that happened to him when he was days old that still makes him an idiot umpteen years later. He should have gotten the message after the first dozen states told him to F off.
poison
4 March 2010, 15:55
I've sat through a number of lectures on this as well as the topic of female mutilation. There is a rather vocal group of healthcare providers that are in complete agreement with you... it should be a matter of free choice. It just shouldn't be YOUR choice. It should be your sons. When he is old enough to weigh the pros and cons.
So in essence, your wife/dr made a choice that your son will never be able to reverse. You electively modified his body without his input.
There would be universal outrage if your ex decided to give him a tattoo at that stage of his life.
In actuality, this is a very libertarian take on personal freedom.
WAAAAA. You're kidding, right? You do know that parenting is all about making choices FOR your child, some of which he or she may NEVER be able to reverse. I better see you posting a thread about infants with pierced ears right freaking now, or your indignation will be simple nitpicking at straws at best, or some odd anti-religion rant, or something equally meaningless.
Fact: circumcised is healthier, though either way is absolutely doable, and a-ok. How's that for balance and free choice? If desensitization was an issue, there would be a hell of a lot fewer minutemen that women bitch about so much.
DirtyDog0311
4 March 2010, 16:21
Everyone knows that chicks dig cut penises more than sucking off an anteater. What could be better to a young boys self esteem than a girl going down on him and liking it? Or, for that matter, what could be worse for a dude's self esteem than a chick going down..........and then coming back up and saying "no way i'm putting my lips on that thing"? Yeah, expect that scenario on "FML.com".
Besides I saw a interview on FOXNEWS today between a couple people on this whole argument. The person on the side of banning circumcision was (naturally) some frumpy looking, short haircut, ugly bull-dyke bitch that seems hell-bent on pushing her fucking agenda on everyone else. I immediately thought, "Oh Jesus fucking christ you hog-bitch, shut the fuck up and go back to munching the rugs of the other ditch-pig cows"
Sorry for the rant, but now its just getting ridiculous. Liberals are really getting fucking out of control with this shit. There needs to be some kind of superhero that can fly around the world with a magic never-needs-reloading rapid-fire shotgun (like the kind Elmer Fudd has) that shoots these fucking people in the face with extreme prejudice. Then flys away while the whole crowds below is yelling "THANKS SUPER SHOTGUN MAN!". Then he'll wink and smile and salute saying, "No need for thanks, good citizens!".
Fuck.
NWPTrainer
4 March 2010, 16:34
My ma had me circumcised. I don't know what it would be like not having been, but the doc screwed mine up. I have a tiny piece of foreskin still attached to the side of my dick on one side, about midway out from my body.....
I've never had a complaint one from a woman or from myself. I'm glad she did have me cut. I'd hate to have ANOTHER fucking crevasse to keep clean.
random
4 March 2010, 17:39
Besides I saw a interview on FOXNEWS today between a couple people on this whole argument. The person on the side of banning circumcision was (naturally) some frumpy looking, short haircut, ugly bull-dyke bitch that seems hell-bent on pushing her fucking agenda on everyone else. I immediately thought, "Oh Jesus fucking christ you hog-bitch, shut the fuck up and go back to munching the rugs of the other ditch-pig cows"
Hang on, WHY is the "Fox interviewee in favor of banning" a woman, and WTF about her being a lesbian? Why would she care? She doesn't have one nor does she get up close and personal with one.
poison
4 March 2010, 18:53
Everyone knows that chicks dig cut penises more than sucking off an anteater. What could be better to a young boys self esteem than a girl going down on him and liking it? Or, for that matter, what could be worse for a dude's self esteem than a chick going down..........and then coming back up and saying "no way i'm putting my lips on that thing"? Yeah, expect that scenario on "FML.com".
Besides I saw a interview on FOXNEWS today between a couple people on this whole argument. The person on the side of banning circumcision was (naturally) some frumpy looking, short haircut, ugly bull-dyke bitch that seems hell-bent on pushing her fucking agenda on everyone else. I immediately thought, "Oh Jesus fucking christ you hog-bitch, shut the fuck up and go back to munching the rugs of the other ditch-pig cows"
Sorry for the rant, but now its just getting ridiculous. Liberals are really getting fucking out of control with this shit. There needs to be some kind of superhero that can fly around the world with a magic never-needs-reloading rapid-fire shotgun (like the kind Elmer Fudd has) that shoots these fucking people in the face with extreme prejudice. Then flys away while the whole crowds below is yelling "THANKS SUPER SHOTGUN MAN!". Then he'll wink and smile and salute saying, "No need for thanks, good citizens!".
Fuck.
Wow, you really thought that out, huh? Lol
Longrifle
4 March 2010, 19:02
My son was 9 lbs 14 oz at birth.
After circumcision he was 7 lbs 2 oz. He's never forgiven me . . .
Nor can I forgive my dad - for the same reason.;)
The religions which make male circumcision part of their ritual.... (snipped for brevity :biggrin: — sorry, I just had to use this one! — WS-G) .
We'll just continue doing it anyway. :cool:
The court, BTW, can just suck my cacher foot-long.
DirtyDog0311
4 March 2010, 19:30
Can I just reiterate the fact that I hate liberal pussybags that come up with shit like this??
Fuckin A, next you know they'll want to ban and criminalize unprotected sex. Then I'll just have to kill myself......
MeatLasagna
4 March 2010, 19:40
Everyone knows that chicks dig cut penises more than sucking off an anteater. What could be better to a young boys self esteem than a girl going down on him and liking it? Or, for that matter, what could be worse for a dude's self esteem than a chick going down..........and then coming back up and saying "no way i'm putting my lips on that thing"? Yeah, expect that scenario on "FML.com".
Hmm... I've never had any complaints.
Terminator2
4 March 2010, 20:09
Deleted at the request of the poster
NWPTrainer
4 March 2010, 22:10
Hmm... I've never had any complaints.
Well, you'd have to actually get a date first, wouldn't you?:eek:
LOL.....I'm kidding, I'm kidding. The opportunity was just too great to bypass. Sorry.:biggrin:
MeatLasagna
4 March 2010, 22:32
Well, you'd have to actually get a date first, wouldn't you?:eek:
Nah... I just call up your sister. ;) :cool: :biggrin:
NWPTrainer
4 March 2010, 23:08
AH HA! Gotcha! I KNEW you liked fat chicks!
Tic-Tak
5 March 2010, 11:34
How free is the choice if others are making it for you?
It is ironic that people that are against this bill are arguing on the ground of "free choice". What you don't realize is the choice belongs to the person getting circumcised, not the parents.
If you truly support free choice, then wait until the boy reaches the age of consent, and allow him to make the choice to be circumcised or not.
This bill protects children from being circumcised against their will. So the bill protects people from forced circumcision and allows boys to make the decision themselves when they are of age. Much more freedom involved, don't you think?
I was circumcised as an infant, and I wish that I was not. What choice did I have in the matter?
DirtyDog0311
5 March 2010, 11:53
How free is the choice if others are making it for you?
It is ironic that people that are against this bill are arguing on the ground of "free choice". What you don't realize is the choice belongs to the person getting circumcised, not the parents.
If you truly support free choice, then wait until the boy reaches the age of consent, and allow him to make the choice to be circumcised or not.
This bill protects children from being circumcised against their will. So the bill protects people from forced circumcision and allows boys to make the decision themselves when they are of age. Much more freedom involved, don't you think?
I was circumcised as an infant, and I wish that I was not. What choice did I have in the matter?
Oh boo-fucking-hoo. How is this shit even an issue? Like snipping your kid is such a big fucking deal that you have to criminalize it. Don't like being snipped? I'm pretty sure there are some plastic surgeons out there that could graft some skin from the back of your legs or something onto your junk.
Circumcisions have been done for THOUSANDS of years and JUST NOW they're starting to bitch like whiny little pussies about it? There are a huge amount of reasons to get your kid cut. Hygiene and sexual health are the two big ones. Particularly the fact that has been echoed on here about 'not being a two-pump chump' when it comes time to please your woman.
Keep your bullshit laws and ideology off my kid's dick. And stop acting like this is some fucking crusade to "Liberate" children from the (insert whiny bitch-like Woody Allen type of voice here)"horrible chop-shop butchery that is IMPOSED upon them at birth completely ignoring their self-deterministic will that is so precious to our American way of life". Like a fucking newborn is somehow able to make life decisions as soon as he is born.
I swear to Christ, its like people go out and TRY and FIND shit to stir up. You don't want to get your kid a circumcision? FINE. Then don't. This proposed 'law' isn't about GAINING any sort of freedom, its about TAKING a freedom that parents have had for thousands of years away. All because some liberal dipshits have nothing better to do than fucking cry. Again.
Fuck off and die.
theWookie
5 March 2010, 13:27
I didn't get circumcised until I was in the Corps and 26 years old, and I really only did it for the five days off. But the WO I worked for at Dam Neck thought it would be a good idea to get'er done, some guys have issues, he said.
How we got into talking about that is another story. :rolleyes:
Prior to the wookie, they used to call me the aardvark; I was fond of whipping it out to check for meat-gazers.
What a fool/tool -- after it was done, all five days after I was gingerly walking around my barracks room with a unit that was as swollen like a large potato, and had stitches all around the helmet area that made it look like pinhead. http://www.michalak.org/fh/pinhead_profile.jpg
Once it was done, I was in major groinal area pain, I immediately called home and told my parents that I thought they were jerks for not doing it from the get go.
Back to lunch..... but, my kids will be snipped from the get go.
(snipped)
Eight days is the standard for some of us. Non-negotiable. We've handed some peoples' asses to them before over this very issue and many of us (myself included) have no reluctance about doing so again.
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