Marathons

[MikeC2W]

Thoughts? Training ideas? Smart ass comments?

I've decided to do the NYC Marathon this year by lottery or by charity...hoping for the lottery as the charity requires a 2500$ commitment.

Came across a Hal Higdon 30 week plan, that I started today.

Anyway, who's done one and what are your thoughts?

[Old_Starlight]

Thoughts? Training ideas? Smart ass comments?

I've decided to do the NYC Marathon this year by lottery or by charity...hoping for the lottery as the charity requires a 2500$ commitment.

Came across a Hal Higdon 30 week plan, that I started today.

Anyway, who's done one and what are your thoughts?

I think you're plumb crazy, but if I was closer, I'd join you ;) ....and yes, I already know I am crazy.

[MeatLasagna]

I haven't done one yet, but I want to do one of the ones out here in Tucson. I won't make it this year again due to work, but for anyone else who's interested..

The Tucson marathon in December... one of the fastest marathons that is also a Boston qualifier. It's mostly downhill with a drop of 2,200 feet from start to finish.
http://www.tucsonmarathon.com/marathonb3bd.htm

And this one sounds badass. It's on Mt. Lemmon, right outside Tucson, in October. It's "the only uphill marathon in the US" - starts at 3000 ft in the desert and ends at 9000 ft elevation in the Catalina mountains. It's a beautiful view and would make for a good challenge...
http://www.mountlemmonmarathon.com/

[mdb23]

Hey Mike,

There is a thread in the fitness forums about running your first marathon. I did two half marathons this year, and got a lot of good advice out of the thread..... If you can't find it, I'll look for it later. IIRC, PocketKings posted in the thread, and has run something like 20+ full marathons.......

Good luck.

[sarc88]

I've run dozens, and switched to trail ultras. There are dozens of training programs out there, sounds like you're onto one already. Here are some general tips I'll share:

- Buy 2 or 3 of the exact same pair of shoes and rotate them each training session
- Find out what hydration they're serving on the course (gatorade/endurox/etc) and start using that now (stomach surprises on race day suck!)
- Experiment with clothing/gear now, not the week before the race. Don't wait til the prerace runners' expo to discover that ShamWow-lined jockstrap.
- Start using Bodyglide or Hydropel now
- Use a carb gel or goo. I don't find they help too much during the race, but theres no crash afterward (many of my races require LD driving, so being able to function afterward is important)
- Get a friend to run with, or use music. Mental distraction keeps your mind off your misery.
- Trim your toenails right down to the pain level 2 days before
- Learn which pain meds you can take on an empty and running stomach. Buffered is better.
- I've dieted down 5-10lbs before some races just to reduce the hip/knee/ankle pain afterward.
- Drop bag items: soft food thats easy on the stomach, motrin, EmergenC, weather gear, a prepaid credit card
- Buy the photo package!
- Sand off your nipples now

Good luck!

[tnkspe119]

Mike,

A couple of beginner books I read when I trained for my first marathon were by Bob and Shelly Glover. The Runners Handbook and The Competitive Runners Handbook. Some of it is redundant, but it has a lot of good info. Also, RunnersWorld online site has some good training tools. Good luck :biggrin:

[MikeC2W]

I've run dozens, and switched to trail ultras. There are dozens of training programs out there, sounds like you're onto one already. Here are some general tips I'll share:

- Buy 2 or 3 of the exact same pair of shoes and rotate them each training session
- Find out what hydration they're serving on the course (gatorade/endurox/etc) and start using that now (stomach surprises on race day suck!)
- Experiment with clothing/gear now, not the week before the race. Don't wait til the prerace runners' expo to discover that ShamWow-lined jockstrap.
- Start using Bodyglide or Hydropel now
- Use a carb gel or goo. I don't find they help too much during the race, but theres no crash afterward (many of my races require LD driving, so being able to function afterward is important)
- Get a friend to run with, or use music. Mental distraction keeps your mind off your misery.
- Trim your toenails right down to the pain level 2 days before
- Learn which pain meds you can take on an empty and running stomach. Buffered is better.
- I've dieted down 5-10lbs before some races just to reduce the hip/knee/ankle pain afterward.
- Drop bag items: soft food thats easy on the stomach, motrin, EmergenC, weather gear, a prepaid credit card
- Buy the photo package!
- Sand off your nipples now

Good luck!

Good stuff here!, I'm thinking trail ultra's next year and moving forward... I just like the woods more.

I was doing adventure races a couple of years back but got sidelined due to neck and back injuries.... I figured a marathon is a good way to get back into shape and ruin my knees and back for a change!

Who else? Good info. Do they really suck as bad as everyone says? I personally don't think it can be that bad...... (famous last words lol).

[CarbineM1]

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=85601

good thread

[KidA]

I haven't done one, I swore when I got out of the Army I'd never run again unless being chased and I've pretty much stuck with that.

However a huge out of shape whale of a friend of mine (350-400lbs?) just ran his first one - not sure of his time but he completed it. He went with one of those free training programs set up here in DC for the MC Marathon that start you out slowly and mix between walking and running and building up endurance and distance. Sounds like you're far beyond a need for that but they're out there if you need people to run with who are going for distance.

Good luck

Edit: I heard about this just today: http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php

Looks pretty interesting. Had some good points about striking with your mid foot instead of the heel and leaning forward in a "controlled fall" to let gravity work for you and reduce your effort to save energy.

[mdb23]

That's the thread that I was talking about. Good deal.

[AustinPT]

Mike - what's your background (ie number of years running, distances, etc), and what are your goals for the marathon (ie "just finish" or a specific time)? I spent 20+ years doing long distance tri's and marathons etc, and learned a few lessons the hard way en route - would be glad to help you avoid them. Also, I'm a physical therapist, so I can probably answer injury questions if they pop up along the way. feel free to PM me.

[SamNeverLeft]

Not trying to hijack your thread here, but I'm looking at doing my first half-marathon with no previous endurance running experience. I go to a local CrossFit affiliate, and the overwhelming recommendation is incorporating CrossFit Endurance into my training, which keeps the volume down but is supposed to increase your aerobic ability. www.crossfitendurance.com/ It's worth a look if you're gathering facts, but I'm in the same boat as you bro. Good luck!

[eltrane]

Running 26.2 miles? Don't you have a car?:smile:

No more running or jumping for me. Too much for the fake hip I guess.

Good luck to you.

[kosty]

I've run dozens,
...
- Sand off your nipples now

I've never run one, and never will, but I have friends who run. One runner who had a bloody shirt after a 10 k (it was raining - he said the shirt acted like sandpaper) said that he should have tightly applied a band-aid over each nipple before the race.

[Spinner]

I've never run one, and never will, but I have friends who run. One runner who had a bloody shirt after a 10 k (it was raining - he said the shirt acted like sandpaper) said that he should have tightly applied a band-aid over each nipple before the race.

I had the same problem in Savannah every morning, only it wasn't rain, it was sweat.

By the time we reached the 3 mile mark on our daily 6-8 miler, my shirt would be drenched. It's true what they say, it's not the heat, it's the humidity.

I could only imagine what it would be like after 26 miles.

[urban achiever]

I ran my first in 2009 (Big Sur). I had a lot of fun doing it and would love to run another. In fact, I considered entering the lotto for the NYC marathon but I'll probably be out of the country at that time.

I half-assed (being honest) a version of Jeff Galloways run/walk program. I agree with his philosophy concerning first timers (could probably include folks who havent run in a long time, too) not running for time.

I guess the main thing would be to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons (not trying to questioning you or anything.) It's a LONG run. Even a fast, non-African, will be out there for at least 3 hours. If you're not a huge fan of running to begin with it'll be kinda hard to stay motivated after the 15th or 16th mile.

Good Luck.

[dagger0824]

The marathon never begins until mile 20.

My first marathon was in 2009- I was sore for a month after that. You will have to forget the amount of pain you're in if you want to do another one after you complete your first one. Usually you get a cool medal for finishing though.

Honestly, about the whole motivation for finishing, I just wanted a freaking finisher's medal. That, and I got a cool T-shirt. My only motivation for the following marathons was because of the T-shirt. I really do recommend doing them though, it's like a huge party- for the first 10 miles.

[J2S]

Good for you. I love to train and race. It is hard to beat the advice of sarc88 and the advice found in the marathon thread, but I would like to add my .02:

As urban achiever mentioned, check out Jeff Galloway's program, but whatever program you use, be clear on your goal and stick to the training program.

If you have one, I would also make a visit to your local running store because they will likely have training programs and can give you advice on shoes (hopefully via a running analysis). Shoes appropriate for your foot type are critical.

For gel, check out Hammer Gel by Hammer Nutrtition - made with natural ingredients. I have used Hammer Gel and some of their other products in training and for races, biathalons and sprint and half triathalons.

Lastly, Bodyglide is your friend.

[chile]

If you don't plan to win it, plan to enjoy it. I did the first half with a group of cut ups and had a blast, they stopped at Mickie Dees, I didn't. The rest of the run was boaring.

[sarc88]

If you don't plan to win it, plan to enjoy it. I did the first half with a group of cut ups and had a blast, they stopped at Mickie Dees, I didn't. The rest of the run was boaring.

Great advice. I always ask myself: Is it a RACE (like I have a PR to beat, or bonafide chance to win an age group) or a Tshirt and shit-talkin rights? Having fun and finding the good pack to run with is critical.

For the board, lets be clear: for me, its all about the Tshirt and shit-talkin rights!

[GRIFFIN]

Mike,

I am currently on week eight of Higdon's marathon plan. I have no complaints as of yet, the tapering of the mileage has allowed rest for the body. I have not found a full marathon that meets up with the end of my training program....except this one
http://www.hopeformarrow.org/gmminfo.htm
The Grandfather Mountain Marathon (Suckfest)

I figure if I run this one first, all the others will seem easier.
And yes, it will suck ass!:biggrin:

[PocketKings]

Hey Mike,

There is a thread in the fitness forums about running your first marathon. I did two half marathons this year, and got a lot of good advice out of the thread..... If you can't find it, I'll look for it later. IIRC, PocketKings posted in the thread, and has run something like 20+ full marathons.......

Good luck.

It felt like 20+, but it's actually much fewer full marys. I have run at least that many half marathons. Those are easy.

Full marathons are of the devil.

[SOTB]

I've run ONE -- in Okinawa -- in 1981. 3 of us had ridden our bicycles from Onna Point to Kadena to eat in the dining facility at what I think was either Gate 1 or 4 -- can't remember. We then cruised over to the USO club prior to headed out the gate to the night life and saw there was a marathon the next day. So we slept over at Kadena (I think in one of the shacks on the golf course) and signed up the next morning. Needless to say, this memory is one I use to signify my intelligence. We all finished the run, though. We headed out Monday for a week-long field-ex -- THAT was a bit painful.

Mike, for short dudes, do they have a finish line sooner for you guys -- you know, since your legs are doing twice the movement and all....:biggrin:

[Darren]

I'll paraphrase the great Eddie Merckx : "Run lots."

[RGR.Montcalm]

I ran/did/completed ;) the Bataan Death March in 2001. I went "Civilian Heavy" with a 25 ruck(Camelbak HAWG) (minus water). I trained by ruck running at PT and road my mountain bike about 75 miles a week. The bike helps build endurance (especially a mountain bike ;) )without the impact on your feet, knees, hips, and back- plus you can coast when you get really smoked...

Good luck

oh yeah x 2 on band aids over the nipples...

[MikeC2W]

The plan is pretty basic - Weeks 1 through 30.

Run: Tues, Thurs, & Sun (Sunday being a long run)
Cross Train: Wed & Sat

Cross train is biking, hiking or swimming. I will probably trade off between Mtn and Road biking.

I never thought about tapping the nipples, that's really good idea....wish I had thought about it a long time ago! lol

[Spinner]

I had a few classmates from DLI run the Bay to Breakers event in San Francisco, which draws a lot of people and crazy outfits and get ups.

It's not a Marathon, only a 12k run, but a lot of people take it real seriously. At the end of the run, they all started popping beers and smoking cigarettes at the finish line, getting a lot of dirty looks from serious runners checking their watches and what not.

The only thing missing was little chocolate donuts. :biggrin:

[Baildog]

I have run the Marine Corps 5 times, and just signed up for my sixth (I hope I am home by then! At least training at altitude should help) Sarc has some great info there.

My personal experiences: I always carry a camelbak, so I don't have to drink on their schedule (Plus, I have seen races run out of water). And, as you of course know, train as you fight. Don't try something different on race day.

My other piece of advice ... bring your own food (gel packs, power bars, whatever), and pace your intake. My first race, I didn't, and then at mile 16 there were people handing stuff out, and I was starving! I had to walk for the next 3 miles I was cramped so bad after stuffing my face!

My first 4 marathons, and many 10-milers, I had no nipple issues. Then, in the Army 10-miler 2 years ago, for whatever reason, they got torn off. They actually make these nipple guards that work well (and sell them at all the running stores and race expos). Or band-aids.

I have lit up a cigarette in the corral at the end of the Marine Corps before. For some reason, that never goes over well!

Make sure that you build up to some long runs, and then taper off in the last few weeks before race day. You do NOT want race day to be the first time you have ever done more than 20 miles!

[Patrick7]

Make sure that you build up to some long runs, and then taper off in the last few weeks before race day. You do NOT want race day to be the first time you have ever done more than 20 miles!

+1

I did my first marathon last weekend. Longest run in training was a 12 miler on a treadmill. I did maybe 5 10 milers, everything else was under 6.

I was doing great until mile 21. Those last 5 were brutal. Ran a 335 which I am happy with but I know I would have done better with training and not have been miserable all last week going up and down stairs and moving in general.

Already looking forward to my next one.

[SOTB]

I have lit up a cigarette in the corral at the end of the Marine Corps before. For some reason, that never goes over well!All of the non-smoking Marines see someone smoking and unconsciously associate that event with their being lined up in a police call to pick up OTHER PEOPLE'S TRASH.

Or maybe you ran into some health-nuts, but the former would have been my response....:smile:

[Baildog]

Hey, I am well trained, I always field strip my butts!

(Actually, I haven't had a cigarette in 4 days. Not long enough to say I've "quit," but it's a start. The freaking air quality here is worse than chain smoking Lucky Strikes.)

[MikeC2W]

I have lit up a cigarette in the corral at the end of the Marine Corps before. For some reason, that never goes over well!




I was doing the Pan Mass challenge a few years back (200m Road Bike event for cancer)..... they weren't too keen on smokers. :eek::cool:

SOTB - don't they pass out tassles at the Marine Corp Marathon? All this talk about nipples and shit.

[mdb23]

I have run at least that many half marathons. Those are easy.


Yeah, they are easy. F you..... F you right in the B.:biggrin:

[Baildog]

I don't know about EASY, but what I always say is that 10-milers are FUN; the only thing fun about a marathon is bragging about it afterwards.

[Frog]

I've done 3. I'd start with more of a fun one like the Marine Corps Marathon to see how you like it before you move up to the Boston (more competitive vice fun). I did a base of 8 every day for 3 years with 10 milers about 2 months out followed by 2 or 3 15-18 milers about a month out with 1 or 2, 20 milers before the race. Age matters. Pain is temporary. Motrin works. And I hate running.

[Balls]

I'd suggest buying a good new pair of shoes and maybe some inserts. If you run in a year old pair of running shoes, your shins willl know the difference. The carb load/hydration is key and so is covering the nipps. That and rock the Ipod... Just tune out and go.

The one I ran was a good time, and I was able to raise about $2.5K for a great foundation (Thanks to many here on SOCNET!).

I'd like to start doing trail ultras and triathlons when I get more time/finish school, but oh well.



Most importantly, HAVE FUN!

[mac3982]

havent done a full only a couple halfs an 10k's or smaller.. invest in good shoes fitted for your frame an foot. if nobody has said that, an pitch them for a new pair after about 500miles. good luck

[KidA]

I have lit up a cigarette in the corral at the end of the Marine Corps before. For some reason, that never goes over well


had a buddy in the Deuce that would roll over in the morning and have a Camel wide non-filter. Then, depending on how early he got finished with barracks clean up before PT, he'd have another one.

Then after running 12K or so he'd have another when we got back to the barracks. He also had a 10 minute 2-mile time. It was like his body just didn't absorb the smoke.

[hile]

Hey Mike,

There is a thread in the fitness forums about running your first marathon. I did two half marathons this year, and got a lot of good advice out of the thread..... If you can't find it, I'll look for it later. IIRC, PocketKings posted in the thread, and has run something like 20+ full marathons.......

Good luck.

Holy shit. I never knew PocketKings ran marathons, let alone 20 or more of them!

[MikeC2W]

had a buddy in the Deuce that would roll over in the morning and have a Camel wide non-filter. Then, depending on how early he got finished with barracks clean up before PT, he'd have another one.

Then after running 12K or so he'd have another when we got back to the barracks. He also had a 10 minute 2-mile time. It was like his body just didn't absorb the smoke.


Yeah I used to do the same, flick the marlboro away as I started to run....that was 11min 2miles and 20 years ago.

Like Frog said, age matters! But luckily pain is temporary.

I hate running also, god bless motrin.

[SOTB]

I hate running also, god bless motrin.Fuck that, bless combustible engines, dude....:biggrin:

[MikeC2W]

Fuck that, bless combustible engines, dude....:biggrin:

True dat.

Fucking Training Week 1 Training Day #3 - can no longer walk down staircases....:frown:


So far so good!

[Typhoon]

Good luck with your training, Mike. One of my coaching class members, a track coach, is currently training for Boston. When I see him I'll ask him for any tips or advice he can pass along...

My only bit of advice is to keep up with some weight training in order to improve performance and prevent injury. Somewhere I've got a weight training program for distance runners. If I can dig it up I will also pass that along to you...

[SOTB]

....can no longer walk down staircases....Your truest, bestest friends would charlie-horse you right now and simply step outside of your reach....:biggrin:

[EightyDeuce]

Your truest, bestest friends would charlie-horse you right now and simply step outside of your reach....:biggrin:

isn't that the truth?

my buddy spent an entire day putting a dock in at his lake house with no shirt on, and no sunscreen. He was red as a lobster when we finished up. What would a good friend do? Slap them on the back and say "great job buddy"...........and then run :biggrin:

[Fu King Lawyer]

Years (and pounds) ago I used to do such crazy things.

For your first marathon the suggestions about a flat course such as the Marine Corps Marathon are spot on.

I would offer you the following advice:

1. Forget time - for your first concentrate on the task at hand - finishing

2. The best way I have found to accomplish #1 is at the beginning find the best looking chick (with just the right amount of body fat), fall in behind her, and enjoy the view (and bounce). You'll forget about time...

3. Once you have finished your first, turn to the Hash House Harriers to recover your wits and learn what "running" is really all about.:biggrin:

Fu King Lawyer
on on
-|||-->

[random]

my buddy spent an entire day putting a dock in at his lake house with no shirt on, and no sunscreen. He was red as a lobster when we finished up. What would a good friend do? Slap them on the back and say "great job buddy"...........and then run :biggrin:

Last time somebody did that to me, I caught them. ;)

[okami1]

There is some excellent advice in this thread.

Good training!

[GRIFFIN]

Mike,

I also found that as the miles increase having more than just music helps kill the time while running. I started downloading podcasts of different subjects to break up the run.
Also, every once in a while running without any headphones on is a nice break. My times are better when I do that for some reason...but it gets boooooring quick!

Enjoy your friday off :smile:

RG

[MikeC2W]

Mike,

I also found that as the miles increase having more than just music helps kill the time while running. I started downloading podcasts of different subjects to break up the run.
Also, every once in a while running without any headphones on is a nice break. My times are better when I do that for some reason...but it gets boooooring quick!

Enjoy your friday off :smile:

RG

Indeed.

I'm able to walk down the stair today, which is nice.

As far as music goes, I've never trained with music before... I'll have to try it, but generally I don't like all the wires and shit. Is it even allowed on during the actual marathon? I thought not.

My biggest problem with this plan is it starts out really slow really light.... but I will stick with it as I have a tendency to over train, knowing this I'm purposefully sticking strictly to it but looking forward to the longer harder stuff.

I used to be a really great runner, in the way distant past I was able to do under 5 min miles. I keep that in mind while I train. And I look forward to perhaps not being able to do that, but to run like a deer again. Hopefully I will remain injury free! My only goal is to actually finish this marathon, but I have a hard time not thinking about... 'time'. :smile:

Either way I'm pretty excited to be getting back in shape, after a year of sitting on my ass! Nothing like a crazy ass goal to get you going. My family thinks I've lost it, but then again they thought that when I started Adventure Racing.... You'd think they'd know by now.

Peoples reactions are kind of really odd, some immediately think it's awesome and say 'good on you!' and give support; others immediately say it's stupid, dumb, why would you do that? and offer only negativity and lack of support.

I'm talking about people in my life, not anyone on here. I've just never understood people who would not support others in their attempts to do something great. Has anyone else had this experience? It seems to be an ongoing theme in my life with my immediate family (mom, dad, brother).

[SOTB]

I've just never understood people who would not support others in their attempts to do something great. Has anyone else had this experience?Yes. I default, no-doubts-at-all, write it (and them) off to jealousy, ignorance, and small genitalia (in no specific order)....

[mdb23]

As far as music goes, I've never trained with music before... I'll have to try it, but generally I don't like all the wires and shit. Is it even allowed on during the actual marathon? I thought not.


Every race that I've run has asked participants not to wear any type of earbuds or headphones. They want the runners to be able to hear shouted directions or emergency vehicles should the need arise.

However, it has also been my experience that the rule in pretty universally ignored.

That being said, I hate wires, so I never run with music.

[Balls]

Scenery makes a big difference. Running anything over 5miles on a treadmill is gaaay. If you have a local state park, rec area, beach, whatever... it helps a lot.

You can also switch it up some with your cardio. Biking, swimming, etc. are good. But I think that was already mentioned.

I had just moved near the beach when I started training so I'd jog the strand. Ocean, sand, and blue sky makes a hell of a difference after a few miles. Running in the sand was also a good switch-up and saved the knees.

Hahaha... for my Saturday night training, I'd run down the beach to the bars, have a few beers, and then run back home in the sand. Sometimes it was the only training I got in for a week. Lol. (Age probably matters there, I guess).

[MikeC2W]

Scenery makes a big difference. Running anything over 5miles on a treadmill is gaaay. If you have a local state park, rec area, beach, whatever... it helps a lot.

You can also switch it up some with your cardio. Biking, swimming, etc. are good. But I think that was already mentioned.

I had just moved near the beach when I started training so I'd jog the strand. Ocean, sand, and blue sky makes a hell of a difference after a few miles. Running in the sand was also a good switch-up and saved the knees.

Hahaha... for my Saturday night training, I'd run down the beach to the bars, have a few beers, and then run back home in the sand. Sometimes it was the only training I got in for a week. Lol. (Age probably matters there, I guess).


Concur, I live on the shore so most of my training takes place either along the board walk, in the sand and in parks. Luckily I live throwing distance to a state park on the shore that has great trails for Mtn Biking and running... it's kind of small, but soooo much better than being on the street or the treadmill.

When I was training for Adv Race, on a easy day;I could kayak the bay for 7-8 miles get out and run the board walk for 2 or whatever and be home before 9am.... I definitely feel lucky to have that type of access.

[CarbineM1]

Till I was in my mid 30's I ran a minimum of 4-6 days per week, with a week off all exercise every other month or two. Did two marathons as a younger guy and always found my biggest gains were during those weeks that I did not run after working hard consistently.

I loved running, especially in a warm rain storm, one of the most relaxing things in the world. Used to strap a cassette player on my arm, the music is a great distraction and if your relaxed and knocking out miles, time goes by like nothing.
Now it's pure work and done on a treadmill. I saw someone else post somewhere here where they trained for a marathon on a treadmill.....holy shit.

Treadmill and road = two different animals in my world.


why I still do it see post #1
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=93385


Good luck MC2W

[okami1]

Peoples reactions are kind of really odd, some immediately think it's awesome and say 'good on you!' and give support; others immediately say it's stupid, dumb, why would you do that? and offer only negativity and lack of support.



I think every serious runner on this site has likely encountered the negativity from making decisions that make you healthier and fitter. I used to hear it all the time from friends who couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to get hammered on a Friday night when I had a training run on Saturday morning. Somehow they interpreted the fact that I would rather train than be hungover as being equal to me thinking that they were lazy, drinking slobs. Which many of them were. People just seem to think that if you're doing something good, it's inherently a criticism of their own choices. Which it sometimes can be. I have been known to reveal my true feelings to some fatass who is criticizing me for being in shape and loving running. I think my words went something like this: " Yeah buddy whatever, enjoy your first heart attack; I'll be out running and breathing without wheezing if you need me." Haters.

Family is a different thing, and I have gotten a hell of a lot of grief from my mother about my running practice. She seems to think that runners are "obsessed and crazy" and "no one should run for that long, it's just not good for you." :rolleyes: I just let it roll off and show them how good I feel so that they may too share in the fun. Or not. Everyone makes their own choices. We just make the choice to run.

[HighDragLowSpeed]

3. Once you have finished your first, turn to the Hash House Harriers to recover your wits and learn what "running" is really all about.:biggrin:
-|||-->

Hash House Harriers - a club for drinkers with a running problem. :biggrin:

I regularly run with them locally here in South America and in Okinawa (many years ago was invited and attended).

Did several marathons and once ran the length of the Panama Canal during my time in the military (IIRC the winner of the official race that year won with a time of about 5 1/2 hours - mine was nothing close). Around that time, I was running the 6 or so miles from Cocoli housing to the far end of Ft Kobbe arriving in time for PT formation and then running back in the evening.

I'm back to running a leisurely hour a day now again (since September '09) and beginning to think about possibly training for some half marathons and sprint triathlons

[Balls]

Luckily I live throwing distance to a state park on the shore that has great trails for Mtn Biking and running... it's kind of small, but soooo much better than being on the street or the treadmill.

+1. Got myself a good mountain bike for Christmas. Best money I've ever spent. I'm in love.

[MikeC2W]

Well it's been 1 whole friggin week and I've decided, fuck this I'm going back to drinking, smoking and being generally disagreeable!












LOL - actual no I haven't.

It's been one week since I started training and while I won't mention distance, cause at this point it doesn't really matter (not that anything does), but my time for the same distance has gotten better by 2 mins.

It's a little victory.

I can also(at the moment) walk again, and go up and down stairs pain free. :)

[GRIFFIN]

True dat.

Fucking Training Week 1 Training Day #3 - can no longer walk down staircases....:frown:


So far so good!

How goes the training?

[sarc88]

I've run a lot of ultras that start waaayyy back in the woods. Plenty of runners show up the night before and just sleep in the cars at the start/finish line. You'll see em rolling out of the back seat 10min before the gun to take a piss, pound some water, brush their teeth....and smoke one. I shit you not - they'll wander up, pull on their foot a couple times to stretch while huffin away on that last cigarette. Its hilarious...and a blast.

If you like this marathon, try hitting the trail for your next run. Way easier than pounding your feet on pavement for 4hrs. And you meet some really cool folks b/c of the limited draw. It was my 1st 50Km where I adopted my current pace strategy: "Start slow ... and taper off!!"

[MikeC2W]

After this I think it will be mostly trails, but who can say. I'm looking forward to getting back to Adventure Racing.

But for now this is working really well, I can train almost whenever, not much gear either...which is nice compared to Mtn. biking, kayaking or land navigating....

Training goes well, was in NYC all week so I got a good taste for running in the city. Which I have to say is pretty damn cool early in the morning when no one else is out there and you don't have to worry too much about the traffic lights.

[bugeater]

+1 for trail runs, again :)

GL with the training Mike, good to hear even while you're in the city you're getting the miles in.

What kind of shoes are you running in?

[MikeC2W]

+1 for trail runs, again :)

GL with the training Mike, good to hear even while you're in the city you're getting the miles in.

What kind of shoes are you running in?


Other than the exhaust, which is minimal at 0600, I find running in the city to be quite fun....only which I had done some of it the previous year (I was here every freakin week).

As far as shoes go, currently I have Nike SHOX, I haven't done much research yet as to what is a good marathon shoe.... suggestion are welcome. I need to invest in a few pair and start running with them.

[bugeater]

...As far as shoes go, currently I have Nike SHOX, I haven't done much research yet as to what is a good marathon shoe.... suggestion are welcome. I need to invest in a few pair and start running with them...

Especially since you're not too far into your training, http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=90740 has some incredible info.

http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitness/motivation/longevity/article/3b4b1ca01e91c010VgnVCM10000013281eac

The mens health article has some awesome background about minimal footwear...good info.

I'm a convert. I run in the vibram five fingers KSO's, and won't ever (if I have a choice) run in anything else.

GL

[MikeC2W]

Especially since you're not too far into your training, http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=90740 has some incredible info.

http://www.menshealth.com/men/fitness/motivation/longevity/article/3b4b1ca01e91c010VgnVCM10000013281eac

The mens health article has some awesome background about minimal footwear...good info.

I'm a convert. I run in the vibram five fingers KSO's, and won't ever (if I have a choice) run in anything else.

GL


I read that article some time ago, and that's exactly what I mean when I say I haven't researched the proper show yet.... but I'm looking for something to mimic precisely what they are talking about.

KSO's.... so you're saying you like them aye. ha I'll check them out. How long did it take to get used to them?

[bugeater]

In the running biomechanics thread, I think page 3, there's a great barefoot(or VFF) ease in plan.

It took me a couple weeks, and it can hammer your calves if you're not careful :)

[okami1]

Mike,

If you are actively preparing for a marathon, I would wait on the transition to VFFs, depending on how long you have before the race itself. If you have less than 3 months, I would wait. Bugeater is right that it can really wreak all kinds of havoc on your body if the training is rushed . You will always have time to work with them after the race, and it would majorly suck to get hurt before you run it. That said, definitely check out the KSOs. I will likely never run in anything else again. Do yourself a favor and get the black ones with the mesh. The ghey is less strong with those. :biggrin: Also, all the formal changes and postural stuff that was put forth in that thread (so much good info in there) can be applied to a runner's stride no matter what kind of footwear they choose.

If you're looking for a pair of good running shoes, I always liked Brooks. Lots of different models and very comfortable.

[smoked]

Don't listen to okami, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about... :biggrin:

KSOs are the greatest things ever invented for feet.

[MikeC2W]

Mike,

If you are actively preparing for a marathon, I would wait on the transition to VFFs, depending on how long you have before the race itself. If you have less than 3 months, I would wait. Bugeater is right that it can really wreak all kinds of havoc on your body if the training is rushed . You will always have time to work with them after the race, and it would majorly suck to get hurt before you run it. That said, definitely check out the KSOs. I will likely never run in anything else again. Do yourself a favor and get the black ones with the mesh. The ghey is less strong with those. :biggrin: Also, all the formal changes and postural stuff that was put forth in that thread (so much good info in there) can be applied to a runner's stride no matter what kind of footwear they choose.

If you're looking for a pair of good running shoes, I always liked Brooks. Lots of different models and very comfortable.


Well the NYC Marathon is this coming November. I'm 3 weeks into the 30 week NYC Marathon plan as put out in mens health.... I want to figure out my footwear fairly quickly. I'm not sure if it will be VFF's, but I am sure I will be buying a pair soon. I was also looking at Nike Free's.

I was knee deep in different types of racing when I read that article that bugeater posted. I unfortunately had a change of careers and injuries since then and not really for the better....so I'm basically starting from scratch.

I can say this though, it feels fucking awesome to be back up and out! before most people are awake. Here's to making it through till the actual marathon.

[GRIFFIN]

I can say this though, it feels fucking awesome to be back up and out! before most people are awake. Here's to making it through till the actual marathon.

X2

I think I am at the part of the training where the suckfest is going to begin!

O well, If youre going to be a bear be a grizzly.

On shoes- I found what works for me and bought multiple pairs to have on hand once my first and second pairs got trashed.

You probably know this but as the mileage starts to increase start looking at different types of "food" for your runs. I started using Hammer Gels a week ago and feel that they have helped a lot on runs over 10.

I am glad you started this thread. there is a lot of good info in it!

Thanks
RG

[Balls]

You should go to a REAL running store and have them help you pick a shoe. Your type of pronation makes a difference as to which type of shoe to buy (supposedly). I also put a good, comfortable insole in. Saves the knees and back some.

Short info on pronation: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html

Eating peanut butter helps because after the first 12 or so miles, your body is out of carbs. Period. And begins burning fats. If you don't have either, it takes from muscle and... that's the wall (in one form).

I've only run one marathon, but I sprinted the half mile easily and felt like I was good for a few more miles. I asked LOTS of questions and worked with some guys who were on their... 90th marathon. Lol. :eek: Fuck that.

[okami1]

Well the NYC Marathon is this coming November. I'm 3 weeks into the 30 week NYC Marathon plan as put out in mens health.... I want to figure out my footwear fairly quickly. I'm not sure if it will be VFF's, but I am sure I will be buying a pair soon. I was also looking at Nike Free's.

You definitely have the time to implement whatever changes you want to make. Nike Frees are a good shoe, and definitely are a step in the right direction when it comes to buying a low padding alternative to heavily padded running shoes. If you do decide to go with a lower padded alternative, start slow and build up. With NYC in November, you have plenty of time.

I was knee deep in different types of racing when I read that article that bugeater posted. I unfortunately had a change of careers and injuries since then and not really for the better....so I'm basically starting from scratch.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like the perfect time to train up an efficient and comfortable stride that will enable you to run NYC with ease. :biggrin: From reading your posts, it also sounds like you're in tune with the running and are having a good time. In my mind, that's a good indicator if what you are doing with your stride is working, although I have experienced my own feelings/feedback to be somewhat unreliable when being observed by others during my training.


I can say this though, it feels fucking awesome to be back up and out! before most people are awake. Here's to making it through till the actual marathon.

Cheers to that! Everyone you meet is lazier than you. :biggrin:

[okami1]

You probably know this but as the mileage starts to increase start looking at different types of "food" for your runs. I started using Hammer Gels a week ago and feel that they have helped a lot on runs over 10.


X2 to what Balls and Griffin said. I have used a combination of Gu energy gels, Shot Bloks, and real food like a PBJ on the long runs, and I eat every 45 minutes - 1 hour. A combination of stuff provides taste and texture variety during the race, because a man can eat only so much energy gel before puking. I carry two 16 oz bottles, 1 water and 1 Cytomax mix. On the day of the race you'll be able to refill so you won't need to carry more than one. Check what they're serving at NYC. Gatorade always makes my stomach feel like ass, so if the race has it, I bring my own powder and make my own drinks with plain water from the water stations.

[okami1]

KSOs are the greatest things ever invented for feet.

Dude, what about Thai foot massages? You're hardcore. :biggrin:

[smcpart]

I have run 5 Marathons. Chicago, NYC, DC, Raleigh, and Boston. Fastest course out there has to be Chicago. Funnest course was the NYC Marathon. Toughest was Boston. Been 8 years since my last one. Getting ready to run Santa Clarita, Ca in Nov and then LA next year. Want to know if I still have it before I turn 50. Good luck with your training Mike. Take care.

[sarc88]

Mike, if you wanna get some E Coast AR's in, I'd like to get back into it as well.

[Olive Drab]

Mike
if you are up for some local 5 and 10ks races for training this summer, let me know.

[MikeC2W]

Mike, if you wanna get some E Coast AR's in, I'd like to get back into it as well.


Definetly up for some AR's up here! All the ones I've done were further south (most of the team lives in NC). That said more than likely not this year, the job keeps me on the road damn near 100%, so it's hard as he'll to train and even harder to find justifiable time away from the family.

[MikeC2W]

Exactly 1 month into training and for the exact same distance, my time is 6.30 minutes faster today than it was on March 9th.

I can feel my wind starting to come back, which is really fucking nice.

Shoe of choice today: Nike Free. No complaints. Next week I will try some KSO's.

[MikeC2W]

I ran 5 miles today, the fisrt time I've gone that far since 1994.

My calves are still hurting from the KSO's but the march goes on! Luckily I love pain.

[Jong]

Don't know if this advice has been given yet, but when you do your first marathon make sure you start slow. Gave this advice to a couple of buddies for their first marathon. Of course they didn't listen to it and started out at 7 min miles. Well when I saw them at mile 21 they definitely weren't running 7 min miles! :eek:

[MikeC2W]

Okay, been 3 months of training now.

Calves have recovered (somewhat, fucking hell)

When I started I could not do 1.5 miles in under 26 minutes.....ugh. Yesterday I did 5.5 miles in under 55 minutes.

I've still got a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go with my target, but it's good to see progress.

I don't see why a 40 year old shouldn't be able to run as well as he did when he was 21, with the proper and correct amount of training. (11:07 2mi run). Granted there have been some injuries along the way, but I still see no real reason. It is interesting how the mind fools one into thinking that they can still do it after 15 years of NOT running, so it's going to be a long hall....but faster and faster is my intention.

Now that I feel I have a fairly good base, I'm going to start with more hills, speed work, and Five Fingers. I have to say, running with a front foot strike is about 1 billion times more enjoyable than running on ones heels.....it just takes time to build up the ability, which currently I have very little.

Mile 3.5 to 4, yesterday felt like DEATH! LOL It was awesome.

[bugeater]

Congrats on the mileage! There's something awesome about running...and just keeping on going. Getting to the end of longer runs is always glorious.
Your calves are still hurting man? That's strange. I agree 100% though with the forefoot strike being better.

Have you tried a midfoot-ish strike? Just running naturally, not focusing so much on a fore-foot strike has made my calf pain pretty much disappear.

Did about 3.5 yesterday at about a 9 min pace, with the heat/dryness of yuma kicking my ass.
Was stoked for another run today (no calf pain) until last night's 50% brakes/plf...no calf pain, but my knee sure as hell isn't wanting to run :)

[smoked]

speed work, and Five Fingers. I have to say, running with a front foot strike is about 1 billion times more enjoyable than running on ones heels.....it just takes time to build up the ability, which currently I have very little.



Hey dude, be careful with the speedwork. I'm 40 also and did some sprints yesterday. My hamstring told me to fuck off.

Build up gradually as you are with the VFFs and don't be like this 40 year old, once invincible and still thinks he is. Then again, if you like pain so much - run like your ass is on fire. :biggrin:

I agree about the front foot strike....soooooooo much more enjoyable. Actually, it IS enjoyable whereas the heel strike method plain sucks ass. IMO.

[8Ball]

Hey dude, be careful with the speedwork. I'm 40 also and did some sprints yesterday. My hamstring told me to fuck off.

Build up gradually as you are with the VFFs and don't be like this 40 year old, once invincible and still thinks he is. Then again, if you like pain so much - run like your ass is on fire. :biggrin:

I agree about the front foot strike....soooooooo much more enjoyable. Actually, it IS enjoyable whereas the heel strike method plain sucks ass. IMO.

Funny. I had that exact same conversation with them lately. Go figure. ;)

[MikeC2W]

My calves only continue to hurt because I push it every single run (with the front foot), although I should say the hurt is more 'normal' now.

Today I ran my first 8 minute mile in at least 14 years, and it felt awesome. I think I'm old enough now to reconcile with my happiness over achieving a dirty nasty leg mile....lol!

After the first it fell off to a 912 and 925, although I stepped up the last .5 miles to about 730. Only 3 miles today.

Good stuff.

[Doctor_Doom]

Good for you dude. I'm never running a marathon. Pheidippides DIED after his. Just sayin'.

[MikeC2W]

Good for you dude. I'm never running a marathon. Pheidippides DIED after his. Just sayin'.


I know. :biggrin:

I can't take it anymore, goodbye cruel world.

[okami1]

Good for you dude. I'm never running a marathon. Pheidippides DIED after his. Just sayin'.

Yeah but he ran 150 miles in two days. Who's up for a Spartathlon? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartathlon) :biggrin:

[dagger0824]

Yeah but he ran 150 miles in two days. Who's up for a Spartathlon? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartathlon) :biggrin:

Who's up for a Spartathlon... While wearing VFFs????:eek:

[MikeC2W]

7 miles today.


being old really sucks.

[CV]

Keep at it Mike!

[Hawkeye]

Keep up the good work. Getting old does suck. I realized a few years ago I don't need to run 8 minute miles anymore and I don't need to run every day. Now I just get out there and put one foot in front of the other. I'm pushing 45 but manage to do at least 4 to 5 miles three days a week. I ran the Fort Bragg 10-miler this morning, 1:37:48. Not a great time, but I was happy with my performance.

[bugeater]

Mike, what are you eating/drinking during your runs? What kinda pace are you running?

Nice Hawkeye. I love long runs. A wiser man than I once said, "Long runs? Start slow. And then slow down."

[MikeC2W]

Mike, what are you eating/drinking during your runs? What kinda pace are you running?

Nice Hawkeye. I love long runs. A wiser man than I once said, "Long runs? Start slow. And then slow down."


Currently I'm not eating or drinking anything during my runs, they haven't really been that long. However now that I'm beginning to do the longer runs, food/drink/supplements is on my mind - so any suggestions are greatly welcome!

My current pace is all over the place, I'd like to get down to a rock steady 8 min mile. Over the 7 miles I just ran, I think the average was right around the 9 min. I was just barely over an hour.

I'll check my garmin and re-post.

EDIT:

1 00:08:28 1.00 08:28
2 00:08:18 1.00 08:18
3 00:09:38 1.00 09:38
4 00:10:59 1.00 10:59
5 00:10:27 1.00 10:27
6 00:10:08 1.00 10:08
7 00:10:32 1.00 10:32

Actually looks like I was wrong, the average moving pace was: 9:41, the time was 1.09 hours, the distance 7.05 miles.

Personally this is waaaay slower than what I would like to be doing, I try to solace in the fact that I haven't run since 1995 and that I couldn't do 1.5 miles in 20 minutes for months ago.....BUT... I want to be faster and much more consistent.

[Zee Germans]

Mike, I always liked doing 2400,3200 and 5000 meter efforts on the track to learn pacing. These efforts helped me to learn pace by feel. I used my reg. watch and knew the spots on the track to know exactly what my pace I was running. Getting in tune with what 7,7:20 and 7:40 felt like helped me a lot on my longer runs on the road. Along the lines of what Bugeater quoted, it is easier to overcome going too slow the first few miles than it is to recover from going too fast in the first few miles.

[bugeater]

Alright big guns, first thing you need to do is SLOW DOWN! :) It'll be easier to start slow and speed up than the reverse. Run the first mile or two to get warmed up, then if it's a good day you can start to speed up.

In terms of eating/drinking, it will be different for everyone, and that's ok. Personally, if I don't have something in my stomach and start sipping water right as I start running, my stomach is going to eject anything I try to add later, usually south. I'm a fan of gu shots/blocks and sport beans, but some people prefer hammer gels, power gels, carb-BOOM etc. Try a few, try different flavors, try with and without caffeine, see what they do to you. If you get into LONG long runs (15+ milers) you may want to start eating some solids. Someone can only eat so many gu shots before your body says no :) PB&J, bananas, or if you're really hardcore eat a whole cheese-cake. Whatever works for you!
I like the break down at irunfar http://www.irunfar.com/2008/12/energy-gel-comparison.html as I don't like carrying extra weight.

I also hydrate with a couple thermotabs in the first bottle of water I drink, the next one being straight water. Again, find what works for you. Some of the latest guidance from the world's sports doctors: http://www.runnersworld.com/marathon/article-new_rules.html You know what they've finally come back to? Drink when you're thirsty.

Keep us posted.

[MikeC2W]

Alright big guns, first thing you need to do is SLOW DOWN! :) It'll be easier to start slow and speed up than the reverse. Run the first mile or two to get warmed up, then if it's a good day you can start to speed up.

In terms of eating/drinking, it will be different for everyone, and that's ok. Personally, if I don't have something in my stomach and start sipping water right as I start running, my stomach is going to eject anything I try to add later, usually south. I'm a fan of gu shots/blocks and sport beans, but some people prefer hammer gels, power gels, carb-BOOM etc. Try a few, try different flavors, try with and without caffeine, see what they do to you. If you get into LONG long runs (15+ milers) you may want to start eating some solids. Someone can only eat so many gu shots before your body says no :) PB&J, bananas, or if you're really hardcore eat a whole cheese-cake. Whatever works for you!
I like the break down at irunfar http://www.irunfar.com/2008/12/energy-gel-comparison.html as I don't like carrying extra weight.

I also hydrate with a couple thermotabs in the first bottle of water I drink, the next one being straight water. Again, find what works for you. Some of the latest guidance from the world's sports doctors: http://www.runnersworld.com/marathon/article-new_rules.html You know what they've finally come back to? Drink when you're thirsty.

Keep us posted.

LOL - word.

The problem with yesterdays run, was there was about 40 females doing the 'Adventure bootcamp'.... and they just happen to be doing their one mile lap right after I started... So of course I had to lap them! It was impossible not to.

I appreciate all the advice, I'm not far from a HS track so was thinking of hitting that as prescribed above for pace and speed work.

In the words of Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go fast".

[SOTB]

Personally this is waaaay slower than what I would like to be doing....I want to be faster and much more consistent.Mike, if you want to run faster, you have to run faster. Please don't read that as some sort of Yoda advice crap.

Rather my point is you aren't going to run faster until you make it part of your training routine.

IMO, you need to set at least a couple of days per week to running fast. Short runs, but fast runs. Fartleks, 400m, 800m, sprints, etc. You have to get your body used to hauling ass, and knowing what hauling ass feels like.

I think you've stated you are running in those barefoot shoes -- but you've been doing it long enough to step up the pace comfortably, no?

Before anyone chimes in with how arrogant my post reads, know that I readily admit that the longest I run any longer are 10k CF runs. Generally, the farthest I run is a 5k CF run. I'm admittedly an armchair QB in this thread....

[MikeC2W]

Mike, if you want to run faster, you have to run faster. Please don't read that as some sort of Yoda advice crap.

Rather my point is you aren't going to run faster until you make it part of your training routine.

IMO, you need to set at least a couple of days per week to running fast. Short runs, but fast runs. Fartleks, 400m, 800m, sprints, etc. You have to get your body used to hauling ass, and knowing what hauling ass feels like.

I think you've stated you are running in those barefoot shoes -- but you've been doing it long enough to step up the pace comfortably, no?

Before anyone chimes in with how arrogant my post reads, know that I readily admit that the longest I run any longer are 10k CF runs. Generally, the farthest I run is a 5k CF run. I'm admittedly an armchair QB in this thread....

Absolutely, and to help me with that end I most recently hooked up with a couple of local hooahs from Camp Rell that run every day... they are a bit faster than me so it should help with speed and motivation.

[SOTB]

....to help me with that end I most recently hooked up with a couple of local hooahs from Camp Rell that run every day....Maybe, but if they are just setting a faster pace, then I think you'll not get as much benefit from that....

[MikeC2W]

Maybe, but if they are just setting a faster pace, then I think you'll not get as much benefit from that....


That's the point, they'll be setting a faster pace for training runs about 3-4 miles.

But I agree fartleks, etc.. they're on my road map.

And I also agree that longer runs one needs to start out a bit slower. My next long run is on the 25th, 9mi. Then 10mi on the 2nd. In between is all 3, 4 and 5 with me doing some cross training on the off days.

[Zee Germans]

Mike, Make sure you do a real good warm up(jog an easy mile), then stretch, then some striders before hitting the track for speedwork, then an easy super slow cool down mile then stretch afterwards. The most common way for reg/exp. runners to get injured is doing speedwork. SOTB is right on the money about running fast to run fast. In regards to the pre speedwork stuff, i apologize if it is stuff you already know. Lot of injuries can be avoided if those steps are followed every time you do speedwork.

[okami1]

Mike,

Also look into Cytomax sports drink (I use the powdered mix) as a way to facilitate recovery. My experience drinking that during and after runs, vice plain water has been great. As far as eating during the run, I go with a combo of Gu (chocolate outrage, tastes like frosting) and Shot Bloks. One thing to really pay attention to is the intervals between taking in more calories. I eat at 45 minute intervals, but you may find that 30 minutes or an hour works better for you. The key is to eat BEFORE you start to feel all cracked out. This is a matter of experimenting with your timing, as everyone's metabolism is different. Longer runs, be sure to bring some solid food too. As bugeater said, there is only so much energy gel you can handle before you feel like puking.

X2 to the speedwork stuff posted as well. This is one area I am really trying to concentrate on too. How are you liking the VFFs?

[MikeC2W]

This is all good stuff, much of it I know but it helps to not only hear it over and over but to also think it and type it over and over.

I've never done the just 'run' thing, so the food and drink thing is hard to get my head around. I was doing Adventure Racing prior to this, so I always had a camel back, back packs, etc. full of gu and plenty of drink and PB&J's at transitions points. With running, I have to assume it's whatever you feel like carrying. Which obviously isn't going to be much. I'm not using a camel back (except for on long solo runs), I don't have room for PB&J, so gu seems like the easiest. However, I agree there is only so much gu you can friggin eat before you're just ill of it.

So that is something I haven't really given all that much thought to, but definitely need to start thinking more about.

The VFF's are awesome, but they're not going to be for this Marathon (I don't think). It was a real fucking shocker the first time I went out to do sprints with them, thinking I was ready. So unless there is a huge improvement, they will have to wait for the next one. Until then I'm running with Nike Free.

I need to train more, so this thread is giving me good motivation and ideas. Luckily I just bought a dog (husky type), she's up at 0445 every fucking day.....which means I am too, which means I train at that time. Which is good because otherwise I procrastinate. Besides it's the best time to be out there, less cars, less people, less heat. There's a million excuses to not train... 3 kids, dog, work... a million... but at 0445 there's nothing but 3 hours of do whatever you want, so it's hard to find a reason not to. That's just an advantage of having a puppy that I hadn't realized until we brought her home, although having a full grown husky would be a great training partner....

Yes and now I'm just rambling.

[bugeater]

Some sounds advice Mike. It sounds like you've got a good handle on it all with your adventure racing background etc, and you're right, it helps to hear it/read it a few different times.

So the husky is the training partner huh? Could be worse :)

[MikeC2W]

Todays splits:

1 00:08:59 1.00 08:59
2 00:07:57 1.00 07:57
3 00:09:21 1.00 09:21
4 00:00:41 0.03 20:40
5 00:08:12 0.97 08:29
6 00:01:02 0.05 22:44

Summary 00:36:15 4.05 08:57

I tried to start with a nice easy 9min first mile, the 2nd mile was actually a series of 2 full out 400's and 2 slightly easier 400's, which came out to basically a 8min mile.

3rd mile was mostly a chill mile

4th mile I tried to repeat the 2nd mile.

I've never run before whatsoever - just military shit - so if there's any coaches out there or people in the 'know'.... thoughts? It feels incredibly slow, but my mind is just stuck in 1994 when I was running 5 min miles, and 8's were the easiest thing in the world... I can't believe how hard a 8 min mile is for me these days.

The only good news is I've dropped about 15 pounds.

[Doctor_Doom]

Way to go bro.

Long slow distance alternate with speed, it builds a good base.

Fuck that barefoot shoe crap, you need something between you and the hardball once you start racking mileage.

[Blackjack78]

Todays splits:

1 00:08:59 1.00 08:59
2 00:07:57 1.00 07:57
3 00:09:21 1.00 09:21
4 00:00:41 0.03 20:40
5 00:08:12 0.97 08:29
6 00:01:02 0.05 22:44

Summary 00:36:15 4.05 08:57

I tried to start with a nice easy 9min first mile, the 2nd mile was actually a series of 2 full out 400's and 2 slightly easier 400's, which came out to basically a 8min mile.

3rd mile was mostly a chill mile

4th mile I tried to repeat the 2nd mile.

I've never run before whatsoever - just military shit - so if there's any coaches out there or people in the 'know'.... thoughts? It feels incredibly slow, but my mind is just stuck in 1994 when I was running 5 min miles, and 8's were the easiest thing in the world... I can't believe how hard a 8 min mile is for me these days.

The only good news is I've dropped about 15 pounds.

Mike,

I find that when I use the mind/muscle connection I do better. I just visualized doing 10miles, I then had an ice cream soda. I found your 15lbs. That is all.

[okami1]

Fuck that barefoot shoe crap, you need something between you and the hardball once you start racking mileage.

Blasphemy. :biggrin:

http://barefootted.com/2006/09/angeles-crest-100-mile-endurance-run.html

[MikeC2W]

9 miles this morning...here are the splits:

1 00:09:03 1.00 09:03
2 00:09:08 1.00 09:08
3 00:09:19 1.00 09:19
4 00:09:17 1.00 09:17
5 00:10:36 1.00 10:36
6 00:09:34 1.00 09:34
7 00:09:37 1.00 09:37
8 00:09:55 1.00 09:55
9 00:09:27 1.00 09:27
10 00:03:17 0.17 19:46

Total: 9.17 miles 1.29 hours


For all you speed demons out there, fuck off :biggrin:, this is a work in progress.

Mile five I stopped for a drink of water.

Avg Moving Pace: 09:33 min/mi
Best Pace: 07:38 min/mi

That last mile a bunch of chics, one of whom I actually went to HS with, showed up where I was running....it's fucking amazing what chics will do for ones motivation and pace!!!! LOL

It's kind of interesting because every week is new territory (or is it TERROR-tory?) for me, I've never (well don't really remember) gone this far. I find it more of a task against laziness than anything else sometimes....

When do these endorphins that I've heard about kick in? Is that some kind of runners joke? Cause I ain't fucking feeling them.

[stanpunjabTrini]

Mile five I stopped for a drink of water.

Avg Moving Pace: 09:33 min/mi
Best Pace: 07:38 min/mi

That last mile a bunch of chics, one of whom I actually went to HS with, showed up where I was running....it's fucking amazing what chics will do for ones motivation and pace!!!! LOL

When do these endorphins that I've heard about kick in? Is that some kind of runners joke? Cause I ain't fucking feeling them.

Endorphins kick in when everything else is in place, like running gait, comfort level and duration of the run over a period of time. Let's say you are doing 10 miles/week, the endorphin phase MAY only start after month 3-4 (individually based), probably mile 3-4 continue to about 7-8 maybe 9 and plateau after that! At my last marathon, 'endorphins (feeling relaxed despite stuff going on)' kicked in about mile(s)3-5 continued to about 9-11, itredness kicked in, then 15-17 again then 'soreness' then I felt better for awhile 22-24 then I hit the wall (running on empty, glycogen depletion, extreme soreness/apparent freezing up of lower muscles and sore for the next few months but did a lot of walking other stuff to recover.

[Massgrunt]

That last mile a bunch of chics, one of whom I actually went to HS with, showed up where I was running....it's fucking amazing what chics will do for ones motivation and pace!!!! LOL
If she went to high school with you, she's at best a MILF now. :tongue:

I'm sort of in the same boat now, after being a pretty decent runner in the Marines I'm now the slow guy (one of them anyway) in the team and I fucking hate it. I slacked off and barely ran at all for like two years. I got a little too ambitious late last year and did something to my calves. I ran through really bad calf pain and I'm pretty sure I have compartment syndrome or something now. If I run more than a few miles 3-4 times a week I get persistent pains in the same spot on each lower leg. Are you still having calf pain?

One thing that serves to motivate me is the several 40+ guys I work with who can run my dick in the dirt. That is against the natural order of things and I won't be happy until it changes.

[MikeC2W]

If she went to high school with you, she's at best a MILF now. :tongue:

I'm sort of in the same boat now, after being a pretty decent runner in the Marines I'm now the slow guy (one of them anyway) in the team and I fucking hate it. I slacked off and barely ran at all for like two years. I got a little too ambitious late last year and did something to my calves. I ran through really bad calf pain and I'm pretty sure I have compartment syndrome or something now. If I run more than a few miles 3-4 times a week I get persistent pains in the same spot on each lower leg. Are you still having calf pain?

One thing that serves to motivate me is the several 40+ guys I work with who can run my dick in the dirt. That is against the natural order of things and I won't be happy until it changes.

My calves don't 'hurt' like they did after running with the VFF's for the first time like a fool... but my legs in general are a constant dull pain, although pain is probably not the right word. I constantly push the fore and mid foot landing, so I expect my calves to stay pretty tight, but nothing like before.

FYI - I'm one of those 40+ dudes! LOL, not sure how I got here so fast....

I need to find better places to run, as the miles go up it does get intensely boring.

[MikeC2W]

Endorphins kick in when everything else is in place, like running gait, comfort level and duration of the run over a period of time. Let's say you are doing 10 miles/week, the endorphin phase MAY only start after month 3-4 (individually based), probably mile 3-4 continue to about 7-8 maybe 9 and plateau after that! At my last marathon, 'endorphins (feeling relaxed despite stuff going on)' kicked in about mile(s)3-5 continued to about 9-11, itredness kicked in, then 15-17 again then 'soreness' then I felt better for awhile 22-24 then I hit the wall (running on empty, glycogen depletion, extreme soreness/apparent freezing up of lower muscles and sore for the next few months but did a lot of walking other stuff to recover.


All I keep thinking, is: WTF was I thinking! LOL

Left, right, left, right, left right KILL.... I just keep picking them up and putting them down.

[MikeC2W]

Tomorrow is 10 miles.

[Doctor_Doom]

Tomorrow I'm eating lots of Cheetos.

[MikeC2W]

Good Lord....that fucking sucked.

Sometimes it just does.

What's the cure for knee pain? front of the knee right below the knee cap??? Anyone?

[SOTB]

What's the cure for knee pain? front of the knee right below the knee cap??? Anyone?There are some people here that MAY have relevant and credible info to respond to your question Mike, but I personally think you are in the wrong place to get the answer. I'd try a place like HERE (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-241-285--7773-0,00.html)....

[MikeC2W]

There are some people here that MAY have relevant and credible info to respond to your question Mike, but I personally think you are in the wrong place to get the answer. I'd try a place like HERE (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-241-285--7773-0,00.html)....


Thanks SOTB, good article. I'm pretty sure that's it..... it's more of an annoyance than at 'hurt' at this point.

[MikeC2W]

I just realized my training plan ends a month early.... I guess that's good news.

I just have to figure out in what way to elongate it.

[SOTB]

I just have to figure out in what way to elongate it.Personally, I'd modify it -- versus "elongating" it. By this, I mean that I would focus on simply training my mind and body to be fit enough to handle the pain and tiredness that WILL come during the race, but I would not be interested in pushing myself to levels that may keep me in the injured zone.

In other words, if you don't have some sort of wish to break 3hrs, then be cool with simply running the entire thing the best you can, the day you run it.

Your training plan then modifies in such a manner that you are able to continue to get you body ready for the run, but not pissing off your joints and feet while doing it.

IMO, you could very well shift focus to such things as CF, biking, swimming, etc. -- and still be moving your body towards your goal of being as fit as possible so that you do well on race day. Some of that is going to be cardio, but I bet a lot will be simply dropping as much excess poundage as you can between now and the race (which means less to drag along in the race, and therefore theoretically less pain and injury in the race) as well as being mentally prepared. I know this might read as arrogant, but I doubt if you are not physically prepared to run the race today. What you need to mostly focus on is the mental part.

To assist you on the mental part, this is too easy. Have an iPhone and at each mile on race day, post a pic of yourself here and some sort of comment. You can have friends do it for you, or practice now doing it so that on race day it is simple. I sincerely doubt that a Ranger will drop out of a run that he knows all of his buds are watching....

[MikeC2W]

Personally, I'd modify it -- versus "elongating" it. By this, I mean that I would focus on simply training my mind and body to be fit enough to handle the pain and tiredness that WILL come during the race, but I would not be interested in pushing myself to levels that may keep me in the injured zone.

In other words, if you don't have some sort of wish to break 3hrs, then be cool with simply running the entire thing the best you can, the day you run it.

Your training plan then modifies in such a manner that you are able to continue to get you body ready for the run, but not pissing off your joints and feet while doing it.

IMO, you could very well shift focus to such things as CF, biking, swimming, etc. -- and still be moving your body towards your goal of being as fit as possible so that you do well on race day. Some of that is going to be cardio, but I bet a lot will be simply dropping as much excess poundage as you can between now and the race (which means less to drag along in the race, and therefore theoretically less pain and injury in the race) as well as being mentally prepared. I know this might read as arrogant, but I doubt if you are not physically prepared to run the race today. What you need to mostly focus on is the mental part.

To assist you on the mental part, this is too easy. Have an iPhone and at each mile on race day, post a pic of yourself here and some sort of comment. You can have friends do it for you, or practice now doing it so that on race day it is simple. I sincerely doubt that a Ranger will drop out of a run that he knows all of his buds are watching....


It doesn't sound arrogant, although my plan already incorporates swimming, biking, whatever I feel like doing on cross training days, I have no weight left to lose (maybe a pound or 2 more), and my mental toughness is nearing god like. Which is good because if you're going to be slow you damn sure better be tough....and I'm not fast.

Does that sound arrogant? LOL

Edit to add - I'm not worried about dropping out, I'm too stupid to stop once I start. I don't care if it takes 12 hours.... afterwards I will be fighting tigers, yes I know, it's Rangerific.

[bugeater]

Hey Mike,

Though the 9+ min miles might feel slow, man, it's distance! Sitting right around there I think is a really decent pace for anyone, let alone the old guy ;)

Trails brother. Trails. Are you running roads right now? If you can find some trails, at least for me the miles will melt away a little more. Do you have people to run with regularly? That'll also help.

GL with the knee pain, that's no fun. And the endorphins? How does it feel after you've fun? Is it all suck?

[MikeC2W]

Hey Mike,

Though the 9+ min miles might feel slow, man, it's distance! Sitting right around there I think is a really decent pace for anyone, let alone the old guy ;)

Trails brother. Trails. Are you running roads right now? If you can find some trails, at least for me the miles will melt away a little more. Do you have people to run with regularly? That'll also help.

GL with the knee pain, that's no fun. And the endorphins? How does it feel after you've fun? Is it all suck?


It's only suck when I'm on the roads, trails I could run all day. This last 10 miler was at least half trails, which I haven't really been doing alot of and am paying for it now, you definitely use different muscles funning on the trails!

Trails are just awesome.

I need to find more of them.

For the last 2 weeks I've been running every day (minus sat & sun), which admittedly is NOT part of the plan I'm on, so I'm going to roll that back and get more in with cross training. Since I have 4 weeks extra, I may actually add in a couple of buffer/recovery weeks that consist of very little running and more cross stuff.

What's the thoughts on running trails and then running a marathon through a city? No problem? Mind fuck?

[MikeC2W]

Okay, took it easy last week - was on vacation and all; only ran twice and short distance.

Today was back in the saddle 4.29 miles, knees felt fine the whole run and I rediscovered how bad it sucks to watch the team turn around to come get your ass! LOL I'm running with a couple of guys who can easily do 8 min miles all day, so we set the pace at 830 which I knew would be a serious stretch for me and I was right. I held it for a few miles....and then turned into a pussy. I think they thought I would say thanks alot and never run with them again! LOL, going out again on Wednesday.

I should have done this long ago, it's going to really help my run....

Couldn't ask for 2 nicer guys, a State Cop and a Army Captain.

Here's the splits, as you can see I really fell off the map the last 2 miles....but that's only a matter of unmindfuckingmyself and getting used to it...

1 00:08:27 1.00 08:27
2 00:08:05 1.00 08:05
3 00:08:40 1.00 08:40
4 00:09:45 1.00 09:45

[GRIFFIN]

Mike,

Look's like you are doing great. Be careful not to over do it. Let your body get used to the mileage or that little pain in your knee will become a big pain in your ass.:biggrin:
Just keep on slugging through the miles....

[MikeC2W]

13 miles today.

Ugh.

[jrgong]

What kind of watch or device are you using to get those mile per mile splits?

[MikeC2W]

What kind of watch or device are you using to get those mile per mile splits?

Garmin forerunner 405

[morelocks]

I ran 3-5 miles a day and did long runs on Sat's. 9 months of training and I did 25 miles a month before the marathon day. I learned how to use different strides to deal with how my body felt during the runs. Long front strides, long back strides, long flat strides, to get my body to relax where I needed. The long flat strides were of the greatest benefit. I rested every Sunday and rested a full week before the marathon. The pain is there but I wasn't going to even consider not finishing. At the time I kept saying if Oprah can do it so can I.

I am assuming you do have good shoes and they are fitted properly. I used two pairs. Check your stride and try to keep your head at the same height as you run. It helps control your impact and efficiency of your stride.

Keep on putting in the miles.

[MikeC2W]

Jesus H. Joseph, Mary and all the saints in heaven.....this sucks.

Well at least it does today.

10 miles. Nipped Shafles SUCK.

I wish I was 20 something again, especially when every step is pain.... but I keep my fallen comrades to the forefront of my mind and my left, right, left, right, left, right KILL mantra going and I always seem to finish strong. Or at least stronger than I felt I would.

Next year it's back to biking!!!! :)

[MikeC2W]

10.5 miles, still waiting on this 'runners high' thing.....

[John6719]

left, right, left, right, left, right...KILL

left, right, left, right...YOU KNOW WE WILL!!

I get that stuck in my head a lot when I run...and never on purpose, it just pops in there.

[Spinner]

The Chicago Marathon is coming up soon, also, and it's a shame it's not being held this weekend.

Perfect running weather out here.

[SOTB]

....I get that stuck in my head a lot when I run...and never on purpose, it just pops in there.What pops into my mind is that I'm too old for this shit and why-the-fuck hasn't someone yet invented a fucking pill that enables you to be thin AND in shape. Shortly thereafter, thoughts of hating everyone on the planet who are remotely associated with the production of whatever food I've eaten in the last year appear....

[MikeC2W]

LOL left right left right....WTF am I doing here! KILL

[bugeater]

haha how're the miles coming Mike?

SOTB, didn't you just say one of the reasons you work out is so you can eat what you want? Does that not include running? =)

[SOTB]

SOTB, didn't you just say one of the reasons you work out is so you can eat what you want? Does that not include running?Yes to both questions. But if offered the choice of running or taking a pill that did the same thing, I am game for the pill.

And yes, when running I regret the huge amount of food I eat.

If any of the above is hypocritical -- umm, well....

[MikeC2W]

Miles are coming, I try not to count when Im in it....it's amazing how far you haven't actually gone while running! Lol

I slowed down for a bit, but am now back in full swing for the final two months of training.. I have not been below 160 lbs in at least 15 years....and I was never fat.

I just keep picking em up and putting em down, and try to enjoy it. Every now and then a chick goes by, it's amazing what that does to your times!

[SOTB]

Miles are coming, I try not to count when Im in it....Mike, the first and only marathon I ever ran, was when I was 17 and in Oki. I might have stated this earlier in the thread. Some buddies and I went to Kadena to have dinner on a Friday night, and hang out at whatever street is right outside the main gate there. We saw the announcements for the run, slept in a golf course maintenance shed overnight, signed up the next morning bright and early and ran it. My point is we didn't train. I bet that our training prior to this had no runs over 10mi, and most were probably 5mi.

So maybe you can blow off the long training runs. If you already have the no-quit mindset (which reading this thread, I think you do), then just run some short and fun runs to build/keep strength and wind stamina, and then do the silly 26.3mi one time and go back to biking afterwards.

I think that is probably what I would do, if in your situation....

[bugeater]

SOTB, I would opt for the pill too. Long trail runs are awesome, but I haven't made the time to find them here in Japan, so street runs are sucking.

When I worked down in Pensacola there was this guy Andy who saw everyone starting to to run marathons and triathlons and stuff...the Frosbite Marathon over in Mobile was just around the corner, so he signed up and ran it. Zero training (besides regular pt test length runs) and he completed it.

We called him The Natural for a reason. He didn't set any world records, but he slogged it out. Limped for a week or so, but I think most people will do that anyway =) Sounds like SOTB has extended a challenge Mike =)

[EightyDeuce]

I plan on attending the Bataan Memorial Death March next year in...well March and am going to register civilian heavy which is an extra 35lbs. The longest ruck march I ever did was ~18 miles when I was still in and the longest so far while training is 12 miles.

for any of those who have participated in the event, does the ruck get weighed at the start and finish? I don't want to have a 35lbs ruck filled with water and whatever other consumables I bring for the hike and have it not meet the weight requirement at the end as I munch on whatever I bring to keep energy high. I was thinking a simple sandbag filled to the requirement or once I get to NM to purchase an olympic 35lbs plate and carry that in my large alice pack.

[MikeC2W]

Mike, the first and only marathon I ever ran, was when I was 17 and in Oki. I might have stated this earlier in the thread. Some buddies and I went to Kadena to have dinner on a Friday night, and hang out at whatever street is right outside the main gate there. We saw the announcements for the run, slept in a golf course maintenance shed overnight, signed up the next morning bright and early and ran it. My point is we didn't train. I bet that our training prior to this had no runs over 10mi, and most were probably 5mi.

So maybe you can blow off the long training runs. If you already have the no-quit mindset (which reading this thread, I think you do), then just run some short and fun runs to build/keep strength and wind stamina, and then do the silly 26.3mi one time and go back to biking afterwards.

I think that is probably what I would do, if in your situation....

That's pretty close to what I've been doing actually. I was 100% on this particular schedule at the beginning, which was extremely helpful at the beginning. In that it got me back in the groove and helped with discipline....now that I can somewhat run again I've been modifying the plan quite a bit.

I actually enjoy running 3-5 miles, I don't necessarily enjoy doing anything over that. I will keep up with a few long runs but all in all I'm not too worried about it.

If I were a 22 yr old Ranger again, I wouldn't even need to be training. I have no doubts that I could have walked on and ran it.

Quitting? ha not being a hard ass here, the word just never crosses my mind. Besides this is supposed to be fun, why would I want to quit anything that is fun? :cool:

Even when I'm making the long training runs really suck, and that voice in my head starts talking about shortcuts.... when it comes time to take the shortcut (even if I'm over my daily/weekly mileage) there is another voice in my head that always (almost to a fault) wins out and I never take that damn short cut. I have absolutely no problem stopping and taking a breather or walking here and there, but not finishing just isn't something I ever think about. If I'm not at the finish line, it's because I'm dead or in the hospital....but Christ...it's only 26 miles... LOL

[Karaya1]

Keep at it Mike, sounds like you're progressing quite well as I've read through this thread.
One tool i'd highly recommend is a HR monitor. A simple one is quite inexpensive(50-70) and does what you need for proper zone training.
The number one mistake i see for people training for Marathons, especially military folks, is the lack of the long zone 2 training. Most guys will do their 3-5 mile run in zone 3a-4 and This is just training in the grey area of limited(shit) returns. As a recently returned runner training for a marathon, 90% of your running should be in zone 1/2, that means below 75% of your Max HR or approx 69-92% of your lactate threshold HR. If you do not know your numbers, it is a perceived exertion of 3-5 on a 1-10 scale.
As for speed work, speed work is the icing on a cake and unless your running at least 7:30s in Zone 2 and can easily hold that for two hours, you have no cake.
Developing efficiency in your aerobic energy system is IMO the most critical aspect to good endurance performance. This is developed through hours and hours of good zone 2 training. Don't worry about Tempo and Track workouts, focus more on getting the miles in.
Cross training for a marathon should consist more of LSD biking and yoga than heavy or intense weight training.

To sum it up, go easier, go longer. Do NOT mix distance with speed, this leads to injury quickly. You're either going long and slow(90% of time) or your running at, above or around zone 4a(Lactate threshold pace) on a track, tempo or fartlek run.
If you actually want to go fast in your race and not feel like committing suicide at mile 22 and the week after the race, this is decent advice. If the above suffering is your goal, i recommend you follow a site like cross fit endurance.

Try to stay out of that grey area most untrained runners live in.

As for age, my best running partner is 58 years old and runs a sub 3 marathon and still logs between 50-70 miles a week. I saw an 80 year old women finish the boulder half ironman under the cutoff last month. 33-40 are the peak fitness times for endurance athletes. Don't let age be an excuse for just having mediocre fitness, it will kill your motivation.

GL and keep at it man.

(disclaimer- I am a sponsored, coached endurance athlete through Cadence Multisport and the All-Marine Triathlon team, currently Studying Kinesiology/Exercise Physiology at UWyo and also race on the UW Nordic ski team.)

[MikeC2W]

Keep at it Mike, sounds like you're progressing quite well as I've read through this thread.
One tool i'd highly recommend is a HR monitor. A simple one is quite inexpensive(50-70) and does what you need for proper zone training.
The number one mistake i see for people training for Marathons, especially military folks, is the lack of the long zone 2 training. Most guys will do their 3-5 mile run in zone 3a-4 and This is just training in the grey area of limited(shit) returns. As a recently returned runner training for a marathon, 90% of your running should be in zone 1/2, that means below 75% of your Max HR or approx 69-92% of your lactate threshold HR. If you do not know your numbers, it is a perceived exertion of 3-5 on a 1-10 scale.
As for speed work, speed work is the icing on a cake and unless your running at least 7:30s in Zone 2 and can easily hold that for two hours, you have no cake.
Developing efficiency in your aerobic energy system is IMO the most critical aspect to good endurance performance. This is developed through hours and hours of good zone 2 training. Don't worry about Tempo and Track workouts, focus more on getting the miles in.
Cross training for a marathon should consist more of LSD biking and yoga than heavy or intense weight training.

To sum it up, go easier, go longer. Do NOT mix distance with speed, this leads to injury quickly. You're either going long and slow(90% of time) or your running at, above or around zone 4a(Lactate threshold pace) on a track, tempo or fartlek run.
If you actually want to go fast in your race and not feel like committing suicide at mile 22 and the week after the race, this is decent advice. If the above suffering is your goal, i recommend you follow a site like cross fit endurance.

Try to stay out of that grey area most untrained runners live in.

As for age, my best running partner is 58 years old and runs a sub 3 marathon and still logs between 50-70 miles a week. I saw an 80 year old women finish the boulder half ironman under the cutoff last month. 33-40 are the peak fitness times for endurance athletes. Don't let age be an excuse for just having mediocre fitness, it will kill your motivation.

GL and keep at it man.

(disclaimer- I am a sponsored, coached endurance athlete through Cadence Multisport and the All-Marine Triathlon team, currently Studying Kinesiology/Exercise Physiology at UWyo and also race on the UW Nordic ski team.)


Great stuff, thanks!

[MikeC2W]

So I'm out running late this morning, it's a fucking gorgeous day for running and I'm having as good of a run as ever, really fucking loving it..... I haven't had a run feel this good - EVER! I'm on mile 3.5 (of a 5 miler) and BANG FUCK SHIT DAMN - my left knee just fucking locks up on me.

I almost hit the dirt, but my ninja like Ranger reflexes saved me.... however now I'm hobbling with a peg leg... it un-ceases and I start to run again.... 100 meters later the same thing - Locks up, can't bring it forward to the next step.

This basically goes on every 100 meters all the way home.

WTF? Any one ever had that happen, doesn't feel very good and has me a bit concerned.

Any advice is as always appreciated.

Thanks, Mike.

[carefreetoast4]

Mike,

Try these home remedies first before going to the Doc. If it doesn't let up after about three or four days then make an appointment and go in. Mine did this to me while running before, and I applied the below method and I haven't had a problem since.:biggrin:

Many causes of knee pain, especially those related to overuse or physical activity, respond well to self-care:

Rest and avoid activities that aggravate the pain, especially weight bearing activities.
Apply ice. First, apply it every hour for up to 15 minutes. After the first day, apply it at least 4 times per day.
Keep your knee elevated as much as possible to bring any swelling down.
Gently compress the knee by wearing an ace bandage or elastic sleeve. Either can be purchased at most pharmacies. This may reduce swelling and provide support.
Take acetaminophen for pain or ibuprofen for pain and swelling.
Sleep with a pillow underneath or between your knees.

[Blackjack78]

So I'm out running late this morning, it's a fucking gorgeous day for running and I'm having as good of a run as ever, really fucking loving it..... I haven't had a run feel this good - EVER! I'm on mile 3.5 (of a 5 miler) and BANG FUCK SHIT DAMN - my left knee just fucking locks up on me.

I almost hit the dirt, but my ninja like Ranger reflexes saved me.... however now I'm hobbling with a peg leg... it un-ceases and I start to run again.... 100 meters later the same thing - Locks up, can't bring it forward to the next step.

This basically goes on every 100 meters all the way home.

WTF? Any one ever had that happen, doesn't feel very good and has me a bit concerned.

Any advice is as always appreciated.

Thanks, Mike.

Mike, news flash, you're a Pirate you're supposed to have a peg leg. That is all.


You've been training hard bro, hope this passes so you can complete the mission.

[Gypsy]

Mike, news flash, you're a Pirate you're supposed to have a peg leg. That is all.


:eek: :biggrin:

Hope it's nothing serious Mike...

[MikeC2W]

Mike, news flash, you're a Pirate you're supposed to have a peg leg. That is all.


You've been training hard bro, hope this passes so you can complete the mission.



PHEW, that right I totally forgot. I feel better already!

Thanks bro!

[MikeC2W]

Fuck.


Nothing follows.

[MikeC2W]

Went to the doc today.

I said - it hurts when I run.

He said - stop running.

LOL - which basically sums it up :( He said I should stop running until at least after the MRI and hopefully they figure it out...

Xrays were fine. Movement and range of motion test were fine...which begs the question - WTF is wrong? Hopefully the MRI will tell all, until then he said swim or ride a bike.

It doesn't really matter whether I can run or not, all it means is the marathon will take longer than expected. That and if I indeed can not run this one, more than likely it will mean I will want to do another. Afterall it is a race not a walk. Either way this one will be finished, if I have to cross the fucking line on cruches or in a low crawl with a morphine drip running.

Fucking hell, getting old sucks.

Will let ya all know what the MRI says.

Let this be a warning to ye all! NEVER, I say again NEVER do a train up again. Would have probably been better to not train at all (thank you SOTB). I started out wanting to do this proper and really finish quick and strong, instead I'm potentially going to have to fucking walk it. Looking back, I should have trained for 6 fucking weeks and just done it VICE my training since March.

Anyway, that's the update. Thanks.

[Blackjack78]

Went to the doc today.

I said - it hurts when I run.

He said - stop running.

LOL - which basically sums it up :( He said I should stop running until at least after the MRI and hopefully they figure it out...

Xrays were fine. Movement and range of motion test were fine...which begs the question - WTF is wrong? Hopefully the MRI will tell all, until then he said swim or ride a bike.

It doesn't really matter whether I can run or not, all it means is the marathon will take longer than expected. That and if I indeed can not run this one, more than likely it will mean I will want to do another. Afterall it is a race not a walk. Either way this one will be finished, if I have to cross the fucking line on cruches or in a low crawl with a morphine drip running.

Fucking hell, getting old sucks.

Will let ya all know what the MRI says.

Let this be a warning to ye all! NEVER, I say again NEVER do a train up again. Would have probably been better to not train at all (thank you SOTB). I started out wanting to do this proper and really finish quick and strong, instead I'm potentially going to have to fucking walk it. Looking back, I should have trained for 6 fucking weeks and just done it VICE my training since March.

Anyway, that's the update. Thanks.

Telling you bro, get a foam roller and stretch the IBT band!!!

[HighDragLowSpeed]

if the MRI comes back negative, I may have an idea since we are about the same age and, like you, I've been back to running more than casual distances for the past year.

I had the sudden "peg leg" happen and it turned out to be my shoes. I had just returned fom a trip to Colombia and the Colombian authorities in their wisdom (and unknown to me) madee a razor thin cut through the heel of *one* of my running shoes during a search of my checked luggage. I didn't notice it until I actually looked to see what was going on but my heel slid just enough during the next few runs that after about 2 miles I'd get what I initially thought was just a serious cramp. I've been running since 9th grade cross country and that had never happened to me before. Buying new shoes cleared up the issue after taking a few days off.

While i doubt that your sole is cut, there may be something that could be changing your stride and causing the cramp. At least worthwhile having a look at your shoes and paying attention to your stride.

[smoked]

Let this be a warning to ye all! NEVER, I say again NEVER do a train up again. Would have probably been better to not train at all (thank you SOTB). I started out wanting to do this proper and really finish quick and strong, instead I'm potentially going to have to fucking walk it. Looking back, I should have trained for 6 fucking weeks and just done it VICE my training since March.


Here's (http://journal.crossfit.com/2009/02/training-2-miles-to-run-100.tpl) a crossfitter who trained up with 2 miles to run 100 miles. He made it 80 miles in 24 hours and only stopped because his legs could simply go no further. There is a journal of his run, but unfortunately you need to subscribe to read it. It's pretty damn impressive. At any rate, he pretty much proved that with a great fitness base and intestinal fortitude (which you no doubt possess), long endurance runs can be completed without logging a gazillion train-up miles.

I'm also curiously awaiting your MRI results since I thought this type of thing wasn't supposed to happen to barefooters. I hope it turns out to be a quick fix for you and nothing long lasting. Best of luck to you.

[rumracer1]

Go out and get some vff and start running in them short distances then work your way up to longer time runs with them. Theres lots of reasons why the vibrams are good for you. I was having all kinds of problems when I started training for multi sport, once I went minimalistic all my problems went away.

[MikeC2W]

Here's (http://journal.crossfit.com/2009/02/training-2-miles-to-run-100.tpl) a crossfitter who trained up with 2 miles to run 100 miles. He made it 80 miles in 24 hours and only stopped because his legs could simply go no further. There is a journal of his run, but unfortunately you need to subscribe to read it. It's pretty damn impressive. At any rate, he pretty much proved that with a great fitness base and intestinal fortitude (which you no doubt possess), long endurance runs can be completed without logging a gazillion train-up miles.

I'm also curiously awaiting your MRI results since I thought this type of thing wasn't supposed to happen to barefooters. I hope it turns out to be a quick fix for you and nothing long lasting. Best of luck to you.


Wow, that's cool. I think my training plan just changed. I was thinking of riding and swimming for the next month or so, resting the knee yet still training....perhaps I'll do WODs also.

I wasn't running barefoot, I was running with Nike Frees on, although I had just started with a new pair.

[MikeC2W]

Patellar Tendinosis, that's the diagnosis, whatever the fuck that is.


I think it's what you end up with when you go slow and try to train purposefully without hurting yourself.:rolleyes:

I go back to the doc on the 18th for the full review of the MRI.

If anyone has any advice, now's a good time! Nov 7th is approaching at light speed.

[MikeC2W]

Better than a torn meniscus;)


Yeah it is, but I'm not really sure how to proceed. :confused::frown:

[Hot Mess]

Patellar Tendinosis, that's the diagnosis, whatever the fuck that is.


Better than a torn meniscus;)

[Balls]

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3139566 forum chat on the subject. Don't know if any of it will be useful.



http://www.thestayactiveclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/patellar-tendinosis-in-a-distance-runner.pdf Patellar Tendonosis in distance runners.


http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/injury-prevention/injuries/patellar-tendonitis-ny-marathon Sometimes it may be best to hold off and live to fight another day. There are plenty of marathons. You need to take care of that knee.


Sorry to hear about all of this Mike. From what I've read on it, it appears that tendonosis is more involved and takes longer to heal than tendonitis. Don't hurt yourself. Keep us posted on your recovery.

[MikeC2W]

I go to the doc on Monday to hear what the doc thinks about the MRI.

After that I'll probably have to make a decision.

Getting old sucks. Thinking about training over the last 7 months and now with less than 1 month till the race and I'm injured is kind of pissing me off.

[Guy]

Getting old sucks. Thinking about training over the last 7 months and now with less than 1 month till the race and I'm injured is kind of pissing me off.You could always crawl, walk and/or run....:biggrin:

Stay safe.

[MikeC2W]

Alright guys, this is very difficult for me to say so I'll be short and sweet.

After consultation with multiple Docs, the family - mostly the wife, and the Foundation I've decided that I simply can't do the marathon this year.

I still can't run further than 50 yards and walking is difficult - it's done.

That said, all the money raised is still going to the Foundation AND (big AND) I will be guaranteed a spot in next years marathon with obviously no requirement to raise additional funds. That means those who donated to the fund, will still get to see me try and kill myself but they'll just have to wait until next year.

This has been an extremely really very amazingly bad fucking month for me in many different ways and it feels (to me) that I've let down a huge number of people here - for this I apologize - but know that it has only been moved on the calendar NOT dismissed. I will be recuperating the knee and back into sensible training so that next year this will not be an issue.

[ARCH-E]

Alright guys, this is very difficult for me to say so I'll be short and sweet.

After consultation with multiple Docs, the family - mostly the wife, and the Foundation I've decided that I simply can't do the marathon this year.

I still can't run further than 50 yards and walking is difficult - it's done.

That said, all the money raised is still going to the Foundation AND (big AND) I will be guaranteed a spot in next years marathon with obviously no requirement to raise additional funds. That means those who donated to the fund, will still get to see me try and kill myself but they'll just have to wait until next year.

This has been an extremely really very amazingly bad fucking month for me in many different ways and it feels (to me) that I've let down a huge number of people here - for this I apologize - but know that it has only been moved on the calendar NOT dismissed. I will be recuperating the knee and back into sensible training so that next year this will not be an issue.

Once your pride heals, you'll feel better about healing physically. Training set-backs suck and being somebody who was always injury free, my first bout of stress fractures sucked. Pushing forward was moronic and only set me back further, as I should have been casted on both legs. Lesson learned.

I look forward to hearing about you crossing the line next year (or being flatlined somewhere on the course!) ;)

[Balls]

Alright guys, this is very difficult for me to say so I'll be short and sweet.

After consultation with multiple Docs, the family - mostly the wife, and the Foundation I've decided that I simply can't do the marathon this year.

I still can't run further than 50 yards and walking is difficult - it's done.

That said, all the money raised is still going to the Foundation AND (big AND) I will be guaranteed a spot in next years marathon with obviously no requirement to raise additional funds. That means those who donated to the fund, will still get to see me try and kill myself but they'll just have to wait until next year.

This has been an extremely really very amazingly bad fucking month for me in many different ways and it feels (to me) that I've let down a huge number of people here - for this I apologize - but know that it has only been moved on the calendar NOT dismissed. I will be recuperating the knee and back into sensible training so that next year this will not be an issue.

Mike, I must have missed your fundraising link. Can you re-post? Can I still donate?

As far as the run, feeling like you've let anyone down is silly. You still raised money for something that's important to you, and you still got the benefits out of your training program. Looking forward to seeing you start all over again next year. :cool::biggrin: