Long Range Sniping Calibers

[Yossi]

Assuming availble match ammo with both calibers, which is better for long range sniping - the 0.5 or the 0.338 Lapua Magnum?

Especially since Accuracy International now makes rifles in both flavors...

[Jesse]

It depends on how 'long' and what you'll be shooting.

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When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

-Jesse Foust

[Yossi]

The longer the better, of course...

[JY]

Hi Yossi;

Best up and comer is the .408 Chey Tac. The .338 Lapua is a rather over rated moose cartridge that has neither the payload capabilities for HTI work nor the range or accuracy for long range sniping. The .50 has the payload capabilities but the rifles are large and heavy. The .408 comes in right between the .30 and .50 systems and has a decent payload capability and the rifles are much more portable. With a effective range as a sniper weapon in excess of 2,000 meters on man size targets and further on HTI targets it's going to be a deffinate leader in both catagories of sniping.

Take care, my friend...Jim

[Yossi]

Hi JY

Thanks.

2000 meters for a man-size target? Is that feasible? Do you need a ballistic software and a laptop for such ranges to calculate all the parameters?

I thought the AW .50 can also go that far.

[Jesse]

most .50's will go that far, but, like Jim said, it is heavier than the Chey Tac.

From what I understand it is still super-sonic at well beyond a mile.

Jim, or anyone else, do you know if any of the other big companies are planning to make any rifles in .408 Chey Tac? Thanks.

------------------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

-Jesse Foust

[This message has been edited by Jesse (edited 05-28-2001).]

[JY]

Actually Yossie a small computer is in the works right now for extreme long range shooting that's about the size of a palm pilot. It will take all the appropriate factors such as weather, barometric, temp, ammuntion temp, and others to give you a firing solution http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Jesse, WindWalker already has a prototype rifle in .408. Triggerfifty has been putting it and the .408 through it's paces, and has been posting some of the results on SP. There is also a German company with a prototype in the works too, both are scaled down .50 rifles.

Take care...Jim

[snip1er]

Discussions on the .408 and the handheld ballistic computer http://www.snipersparadise.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=12

Articles and test results on the .408 - http://www.snipersparadise.com/ELR/ELR.htm

[Triggerfifty]

Yossi, email me your email address to trigger@ecenet.com

You can go to snipersparadise.com and go to the ELR section. There is test data posted there. I am the tactical advisor for the project. The project has spun into 3 additional technologies besides the .408 CheyTac platform.

1. Advanced Ballistic Fire Control Computer with autotmatic input for all environmental and meteorogical conditions as well as internal ballistics variables such as ammo temp, varying velocities etc. The device will have built in sensors for air pressure, air temperature and automatic inputs for winds at the gun position and direction. The operator will have the option to input values for downrange conditions. Remote wind sensing is in the works also.

2. GPS offset rangefinding. Details are classified. Range determination solution will be sub meter at 2000 meters and the system is totally passive. The range data will be automatically fed into the fire control computer.

3. Advanced technology projectiles from Lost River Ballistic Technologies. These are the 419 grain .408 caliber bullets that are showing to actually GAIN downrange BC value.

4. US Optics long range optical sight system. This is an externally adjusted sight with high resolution lenses.

In my opinion, having shot all the tactical big bore guns, the .408 obsoletes the .338 Lapua and the .50 BMG in all areas except explosive projectile delivery. The .408 is supersonic past the BEST 338 Lapua bullet by over 400 yards and the BEST 50 BMG bullet (anything with a 1.000+ BC) by 500 yards or more.

Determining whether 2000 meter shooting is feasable is a reasonable arguement. In my opinion, major resolving issues are:

1. Range to target. This is dependant on danger space. Danger space of a shot against a 2 MOA target at 2000 meters is the same as the danger space for a 7.62mm system at 700 meters. WE've all done that, not too tough. GPS rangefinding makes that easy, and you don't have to have a target to make it work, just something, anything to point a system at.

2. Resistance to windage deflection. Since you can't get the winds right ever, unless you have remote wind sensing technology (which we will have), the efficiency of the bullet against the wind is a major factor. Lost River Ballistics has mastered a form of bullet design that achieves "balanced flight". Can't say anything else about it. Classified at this point, and under patent approval.

3. Nature of the Target: To us at this point, this is the most determining factor. We can overcome 1 and 2 above. If the target is fidgety and moves around alot, that determines how far away you can shoot him. If he's a relaxed, thinker type that stands in one place alot, he may be engagable from greater distances.

For anyone interested contact me: I will forward results of the tests in Idaho.

PS... the fire control data will be generated using Weibler Doppler radar and acoustic microphone data obtained at extensive testing at Yuma Proving Grounds later this month. This is the best data available as the actual downrange performance of the bullet is tracked in flight. All other programs on the market, even the current best, use BC data that is provided by manufacturers or by shooting bullets through screens at shorter ranges. The bullets that we test, will be shot to MAXIMUM ranges, 6000 yards+. We will have downrange velocities and spin data from 0 to 6000 yards plus, actually as far as the bullet can fly.

Neat stuff... Most current postings on information will be at sniper's paradise.

[Mac679]

Jim,
any hopeful possibilities for the .408 CheyTac winding up in the US arsenal? http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif