338 Lapua????????

[Slingshot]

Whats so great about it????

Gimme sum info plz....

------------------
"I hit, what I aim for..."

[Jesse]

It has a flatter trajectory than the 7.62x51, as well as more power. But I don't think anyone calls it 'great' because it only fills the gap between .308 Win. and .50 BMG.

------------------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

-Jesse Foust

[JY]

Now being filled by the reat US made .408 http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif No need for the Nordic moose round http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

[Slingshot]

Finnish must I add...

And it's nice you guys, can come up with something usefull considering your budgets.. LOL..

But... how about the .50 cal rounds?
Anything yet??

.. Ehhemm Did I hear Raufoss MPT? ehhhh Nordic?? Actually Norwegian...

No Offence pals, just following up the comedian..

'Nuff bullshit, Actually I wanted to have some data on the calibre, Cuz I'm planning to build a rifle with 338 Lapua.
Hope there is someone out there who has som input to me on the issue.

Thnx

Alf Helge..

And Bytheway... Did you read it?? NORWAY??? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

[JY]

I've been a working sniper for many years now.And have fired the .338lapua and find it to be a fair long range caliber, great NO. It fails to be a decent anti material round due to very limited payload capabilities. It fails to fill the niche between both the .30 and .50 for general sniping work. If you are building a rifle I would suggest you look at the .408 Cheye Tac it flat out performs the .338 Lapua, so far hits at 2500 meters are the norm and delivering effective energy at those ranges. As a hunting round the .338 Lapua will suffice with a nice 250gr SP, other than that it's obsolete as a military round http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

The MK211..er Raufoss, is a decent anti material round with acceptable accuracy and was tops during Desert Storm 10 years ago. A good product of Norway http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif Worked great on those Soviet fuel cells! Also makes a mess of the black boxes http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/eek.gif

Forget the old technology go with the new. Take care...Jim, Sine Pari

[Slingshot]

Thanx alot Jim...
This is more like it, This was hard facts I hope. I will take it into consideration, and look up that other round..
I have 6,5-06 in my rifle now... MacMillan stock,swarovski scope,Millet scopemount,Heavy match grade barrel.. I'm telling you, with Lapua Scenar 7grams coated bullets... You can shoot the wings of a fly on 300 yards...

Yeah well..

Tnx again m8

[tactical]

Jim, I have shot the 338 Lapua a bunch and like it very much but you point out the 408 should be a better round for extreme range shooting and anti material. The Lapua is great for shooting to 1500 meters on bad guys. It fights the wind like a young Mike Tyson. The Lapua really is not much better than a 308 for anti material as the bullets are just bigger still lightly constructed (Yes guys I have heard Lapua has an AP round but show me some so it can be tested. I read all the materials about why and how they developed the 408 and I cant wait to get my hands on one. I do fear that because of the cost the 408 round will die before it gets a chance.

[Gooch]

.338 Lapua.

Large recoil unless you use muzzle break. Huge muzzle blast when you use muzzle break (Will defoliate most rural type hides and raise dust like a mother #$&@#$!)It will also drive most of the other shooters off of the firing line if they get too close.

A while back the Canadians were thinking about doing away with the 7.62 in favor of the .338. SHEEEIIIT! I wouldn't want to have to be the one to try and train all of the baby snipers on that beast. Scope bite would be fatal and half the class would have a twitch by the end of intitial zeroing exercise!

In my HUMBLE opinion. If you want to go beyond 7.62 try 7mm magnum. Check out the ballistics.

Out here.

[Tuukka]

The Finnish Army adopted the Sako TRG 42 with green stock and phosphated iron parts as the replacement for the aging TAK 85 sniper rifles.

From what i have heard from the tests, best groups at 1000m were around 20cm.

Price wise it was a hell of a lot cheaper than other western sniper rifles.

[This message has been edited by Tuukka (edited 11-08-2001).]

[JY]

Kent has the .338 Lapua down to a T http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif I've shot .50's with better manners http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/eek.gif

Mike, the 7mm ULRS(ultra long range sniper) that has been in testing is superior to that. 1500 meters on E type targets it's hitting center mass with no problems. The Bullet has a superior BC and is based on the Remington Ultra Mag case. And it's recoil is not to bad, about like a .30-06. Combined with the M24TC test rifle it's a heck of a set up. Gotta love those long thin bullets http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Take care...Jim, Sine Pari

[tactical]

Jim, the 7mm in an Ultra Case should fly faster than one would hope. I use that Ultra case to get 338 300 grainers to 2800fps so the biggest badest 7mm should be in the 220 swift range. Never shot one but would like to.

To be completely honest I think the 308 is still the way to go. Close distance to within 800 and say bye bye.

I know you are a 7mm fan but I still like the 308.

[Slingshot]

Hey Tuukka, It proves one thing, that when we frozen nordic vikings warm up our heads, I't doesen't take much to make something good, rugged, cheap---- And most of all SOMETHING THAT WORKS.

Bytheway I was in Finland on Nordic Peace '99, Dragging the good 'ol MG3.. Also got a chance to see yer 120mill mortars and Your rocketfiring Tatra in live action...

And to all others, I like reading all your experiences with the different kindes of ammo..
Keep up the good work... I say to hell with rocketscientist.. Rugged sharpshooters with skills and knowlege that can blow the average tincan shooter off his chair, rule..

[RifleMaster]

Hi Jim & Mike!

Mike,

Jim and I need to make you a 7mm believer!! A 7mm can do anything a 308 can, but better. Because the 7mm retains more velocity at all ranges.

Jim,

I thought you were vacationing in the Middle East!

Take care my friends!

Carl

[Jesse]

Speaking of the .220 Swift, did you know that it will penetrate steel APC armour...from 30 feet, or maybe yards, I can't remember which. A 30-06 firing AP bullets only dented it. Interesting if nothing else.

------------------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

-Jesse Foust

[Pat Murphy]

Jesse,
Its called "Velocity" and they will poke holes where AP bounces off. I remember as a kid my dad shooting at a cutting edge off of a grader blade with AP in a 30-06 and chipping it while the 300WM put holes in it like you were using a drill.

The 7MM in the ultra will be a screamer but the barrel life will be less than 1200 to 1000 rounds if that. It may work well as a specialized rifle but to be really good with something you need to shoot it a lot. It will never fly with the military to much down time for barrels.

I agree with Mike you will not see them replacing the 308s for many, many years to come. There is to much of a trade off for Velocity that becomes to expensive even for the military. Either shooters won't like the recoil or the barrel life will be to short or both.

You 7MM guys need to get you BC charts back out and look at the 6.5 bullets. They are even that much better than the 7MMs like in the .640s now your talking some long thin bullets.

I would like to see them look at the .260s for a sniper round. Lighter recoil better wind bucking, more retained energy at 1000yds plus the comeups would be very close to the 175s in the 308s. Barrel life would not be bad, it will never happen but hey its the best of both worlds.

[USMCSNIPERONE]

The 162grn Hornady 7mm A-Max bullet has a BC of .625. The Berger 168grn VLD BC is .648 and the Berger 180grn VLD BC is .698. Beat that with your 6.5! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Sniperone..
Ok, granted you have a high BC with VLD bullets but look at the weight of your bullet compared to mine. I am getting the same BC with a 140gr bullet. When you compare bullet to bullet the 6.5s will come out with a higher BC.
Don't get me wrong I am not knocking the 7MMs next to the 6.5s there great!! I love the 7MM-08s and think they would make a geat sniper round also.
I shoot the 260 and the 6.5x284 in tactical matches and love them both. I used to shoot the 300WMs with 190s but my little 6.5s are as flat and without the recoil with a lot better barrel life. (Which is really improtant to me)
I looked real hard at the 7MM-08 but went with the 260 and have never looked back. I am sure though if I had went with the 7MM-08 I would be in your camp also. Keep your powder dry!!

[JY]

Hi Carl;

Have lap top will travel http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Catch you latter. take care, my friend...Jim

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Pat,
I'm just messing with ya brother! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif The 6.5 that I would like to have is the old .264Win.
Its basically indentical to the 7mm Rem mag, but with a 6.5 bullet. I shoot the 7mm rem mag in the Rem. Sendaro,It really shoots! The problem I have is it really doesn't like any bullets over the 162grn A-Max. I think I'm going to get a 1-9 twist barrel for it and see what happens then. This barrels chamber is marginal now. Any Suggestions on barrel manufacturers? I use Douglas stainless on my Highpower AR-15's, But I don't know what the craze is for BIG guns.

Semper Fi Sniperone

[tactical]

Carl, Jim, others, I know I give up something with the 30 over the 7mm and 6.5mm, its just I love the way the 308 works all the way around. Long bbl life and accuracy I have come to expect everytime.

If I was not such an old fart I would switch to the 7mm or even the Fag Mag 6.5x284. Heck I think the one I would go with is the Ultra/404 Jeffery case necked down to 7mm. hat thing must just put a finger up at the wind and look at gravity as a minor thing.

Sounds like next years project. I will have to talk to you guys more about it.

Since this thing started on the 338 Lapua I will share a little something I found with the Ultra case in 338. I get the same velocities with the Ultra 338 as the Lapua 338. 250's at 3000 fps and 300's at 2800fps. This is all in a ten pound rifle (Without scope) and a great brake system edm'd into the bbl.

Gooch is right not the medium shoot and be hiden caliber but fine long range caliber.

take care

JY be safe

Mike

[TonyY]

Pat: I'm with you, I'm convinced that the 6.5's are worth the investment. The 6.5-06 I have needs only 24 MOA to reach 1000 and the wind is about 1/3 of what a 308 needs even with just a 21" barrel. From what I've seen the 6.5-06 is similar to a 168 308 out to about 400-500 yds but then starts to track like a 300 wm past that.

But like others I'm still holding on to my 308s. Come to think of it I usually hold on to everything I have.

[Triggerfifty]

Short word on the .338 Lapua. It is now obsolete.

Wanna try a very tame .338 Lapua gun though, shoot the EDM Arms version of it. She's a little baby... heavier though than most .338s.

The .408 is the dominating round of the next few years. We have the cost of 20 rounds at 79.95, same as the 338 Lapua. Huge difference is that the .408 gives you a CNC turned copper / nickel bullet (M40 for the military, J40 for civilians). J40 leaves no copper wash in the barrel, built for paper shooting.

<a href=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1796757&a=13931799>See my photos of Work at PhotoPoint</a>

Here's a link (hope it works) to some photos of the military .408 system. JY you gotta shoot this hog, she's very tame.

Guys, email me for tests, info paper, and photos.

Oh yeah, one more thing... the .338 Lapua is superior to the .50 for antipersonnel work and is supersonic 200 meters farther, the real dividing line in the sand.

Using the Lost River Ballistic Tech. 270 gr. bullet (.878 BC) the supersonic range is a little over 2000 yards under SAC.

[tactical]

Dean/Trigger, if I can get a standard type rifle I will be all for the 408 Chey Tact but at the cost they are asking I can never afford one of the EDM version. No doubt state of the art but out of my afford to own rate. The work I have seen by EDM has been as close to perfect as possible.

I am thinking of a CZ Action, McMillan Stock and a very good bbl. What bbl did you guys go with of th Chey Tact.? I would have thought KxP but they seem close to shut down these days

[Triggerfifty]

Hi there...

They are indeed using k&P barrels. Kenny will be busy enough supplying EDM to carry that entire business. EDM is selling tons of guns. 338 - 50 in about 6 variants now.

[Pat Murphy]

Sniperone,
I know, but its fun to argue about whats the best anyway and you never know what you might learn along the way(HA).
I have had good luck with most of the "Good" barrels. Douglas in the select match and Harts, Schneider, Pac Nors, and Lilja's. I think the smoothest or easiest to break in and clean are the Pac Nors. I currently have them on all my rifles and they all shoot great!! It took about 15 rounds to break them in.

I think the toughest wearing barrel was a Schnieder but took over a 100 rounds before it quit fouling then it was great!! Harts were just a damn good barrel all the way around and the Douglas's I had were in CM but shot well the thing I liked about them was they seemed to shoot everything well. The Liljas have been the pickiest for me. They are picky on ammo but if you find the right loat they really shoot. It may have just been the calibers I had them in too.

I won a Kreieger at the D&L shoot and half off on a Shilen so I am anxious to try those two and see how they shoot esp. the Kreieger. What are you looking at building??

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Pat, I'm not really looking to build anything special. My Sendero will do anything I ask of it.Its the best"out of the box" shooting iron I've ever shot. I just want a faster twist barrel to stabilize those heavier bullets. I have had outstanding performance out of the Douglas barrels from the first shot. We have tried the Kreiger's on our "Mouse" guns, but it took alot of shooting before it started shooting good. The Kreiger is a cut rifled barrel, takes alot of breaking in.I think I'll go visit Hart this winter, as they are in my neck of the woods. Caliber wise I think I'll stick with the 7mm rem mag. Its better than the .308 in long range performance and doesn't use as much powder or wear barrels as bad as the "Ultras".

Semper Fi Sniperone

[tactical]

Sniperone, hey I tend to disagree on bbl wear. It seems to me bbl wear is a direct relation between powder burnt and size of the hole it has to push the bullet down. 7mm mags I have seen are as tough on bbls/throats as 300 Win. and in my experience a 300 Win is as hard on bbls/throat as a 338 Ultra. Seems about the same to me. One example is watch how many rounds the HP shooters get out of the 243's in comparison to the 308's. Same case but less than half the life with a 243.

Scheider is a tough bbl! I have several and none showed any fouling problems.

Dean, great news on KxP. I have their bbls on two 308's, a 300 win and a 338 Ultra. All 1/2moa or better and almost foul proof.

The bbl makers I love to have on my rifles are:
KxP
Scheider
Krieger
Obermyer
Mike Rock
Acc International (Not available anyore)

Never had a bad bbl from any of the above

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Mike,
What I was comparing was the 7mmRem mag. against the 7mm "Ultra" mags. The 25grns or so of powder difference. For what the 7mmRem. provides, it is actually very economical and efficient.
Now, what the hell is all this "Fouling"??
You mean you guys don't "Moly" your bullets? My Highpower AR only gets "Scrubbed" once during the off season.The rest of the year it gets one wet patch of CLP(Breakfree) and 4 dry patches.Absolutely zero "Fouling"!!
I know, I know, what did I start now? http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Oh, Nooooo... Not the moly thing!!!

Sniperone have you ever shot a 280AckImp??? Its a really nice round and close to a 7MM mag in performance. The only down side is the fire forming of the cases.

You can't go wrong with a Hart thats for sure. I think any of the good brand name barrels will do a good job for you. I haven't played with the cut rifled barrels yet but hope to. I broke in 4 rifles from H&S for the State Patrol when they got theirs. I was surprised at how well they broke in.

Mike has some good choices too. I have heard really good things about K&P. My Schneider barreled 308 had over 3000 rounds through it when I had it bore scoped, the guy scoping it didn't believe me. He said it still looked nearly new. Thats one of those guns you regret trading off. It was never a tack driver like my other 308s but it would shoot under MOA all the way to 1000yds if I did my part.

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Never shot the .280 Ackley Imp. Which one of you has the goods on those K&P barrels? The one thing I noticed with the"cut rifled" barrels, is they seem to produce more pressure. We had to back down our loads a bit. I shot Highpower with a guy that works for Hart, he had a prototype barrel on his AR. They are getting into "Mouse Gun" barrels after they found out how many barrels Highpower shooters go through and they have been missing out on it.

MOLYMOLYMOLYMOLYHAHAHAHAHA!!! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Sniperone..
Be nice now!!!Probably best to check with Mike, he lives out there next to them and could probably hook you up with the correct info.

[tactical]

Sniperone, I really like KxP bbls. Never noticed more pressure just more velocity and ease of cleaning, but then I never coat my bullet with Chicken S..., molly, or other useless materials that cause more trouble then they are worth.LOL God I hate that stuff!

On KxP its been hard getting them. I hear thye are tied up with making bbls for the 408,338 and 50cal EDM weapons. My local smith is pulling his hair out as he cant get the KxP's right now.

I left Hart out of my list by old age and accident. Great bbl also

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Mike,
Where did the"more velocity" come from? Pressure, right? It doesn't come from a slicker barrel,cause when you "Moly" it actually reduces velocity and you have to add powder to get it back. All this is not as noticable in your larger cartridges, but in our little .223's in makes a big differance. Most of our highpower loads are compressed and when we tried the Kreiger barrels instead of the Douglas, I blew a primer right off. The Kreigers shot good, but we had to back the loads down a bit.

I know alot of guys tried Moly when it first came out, using the steel shot and all that. The steel shot actually swages your copper bullets to hell! I use the Midway Moly kit and it is easy and quick. Clean your bullets, 500 at a time or 5 lbs worth in hot water and Dawn dish soap,rinse, dry completely.The hotter the water, the better, it helps with the drying. This removes any manufacturing oil and trash, now DO NOT touch them with your greasy little hands either http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif Put them in your "extra" vibrating,tumbler pail with 1/8 teaspoon of Midway Moly for 30min ONLY! Stick them in a doubled paper grocery bag and shake!This gets rid of any extra moly and shines them up a bit also.
If you have used the gun without moly,then you will have to clean all that copper fouling out first. I really think if you tried this your "fouling problems" would be gone. Mine are!

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Sniperone..
Have you tried Danzac?? It does not build up on itself and is suppose to be better than moly.
The problem with tactical shooters and snipers using moly is the cold bore shot. You never know where it will go. You need to have a fouled barrel all the time. I know of a lot of cases where the moly becomes a problem as far as fouling goes also. I know you HP shooters swear by it.
My son shoots HP and uses it but when he shoots sniper comps he stays away from it.

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Pat, In Highpower the first shot out of a cold barrel is very important also! Just look at the "Presidents 100" no sighters,1st shot is for score. The trick is to be consistant! I clean mine exactly the same everytime and I KNOW where my cold shot is going.Thats what that Data book is for!! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gifI've heard of guys having a buildup problem, but I have not seen it with mine yet.My current Douglas barrel has 4,800 rnds through it and is still shooting strong.

I've been going to check out that Dansac,but haven't had a chance yet.Did your son go to Perry this year? If so, how did he do?
I missed it with back surgery and all.

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Sniperone,
Yes he did, it was his first year down there. He shot the Pres. 100 and the leg match (Not sure thats what its called). He missed legging by I think 7 points and was in the top 250 something on the other as I recall.

He shot his worst off hand ever in one of the matches and then as I recall, came back really strong in the 300 and 600. He really enjoyed it.

He started shooting high power to help him with his position shooting for the sniper comps and I guess he must have got pretty good at it because Neb. put him on the HP team and the sniper team.

Him and his partner won the Wilson Matches this year in the sniper comp but it sounds like they want him to shoot on the HP team next year at the Wilsons. He has really mixed feelings about it. His true love is the sniper comps but he still really likes the HP shooting also. Neb. has some damn tough shooters on both the sniper and HP teams so I suppose he will go where they put him.

How did you screw up your back?? Are you OK now?? I had neck surgery about 5 years ago and have a steel plate with three vertabra welded solid and for a while recoil would really give me a head ache. I finally gave up shooting the 300WM and went back to the 308s and then the 260 and have been fine since. The only thing that really gets me is if I have to lay prone for very long looking through a scope. I get a hell of a head ache and my eyes start to blur. It makes some competitions pretty tough on me but I have learned to live with it and eat a lot of Ibuprofin.(HA)

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Originally posted by Pat Murphy:
Sniperone,
Yes he did, it was his first year down there. He shot the Pres. 100 and the leg match (Not sure thats what its called). He missed legging by I think 7 points and was in the top 250 something on the other as I recall.

He shot his worst off hand ever in one of the matches and then as I recall, came back really strong in the 300 and 600. He really enjoyed it. )

Good job! I went to Perry for the 1st time in 99, I took a Gold in the leg and missed the Presidents by X count!! In 2000 I made the Presidents# 91 I think and broke my sling in the leg match as I got into position for the 300 rapid. I've been shooting Highpower only 3 years as I've had to take this year off, just need 6 points to be Distinguished!
Hurt my back doing construction work. I'm along ways from being right again. I have nerve damage that "might" be permanent,to the nerve going to my right leg.It leaves that leg about 40% as strong as the left. I'm shooting next year if I have to stand up for the whole match!!

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Ktulu]

like the new vektor .338 gpmg. sorry a bit random but hey...

[Sharky]

No HP at the Wilson's Pat. He probably meant Combat Rifle. Wilson's consist of Combat Rifle, Combat Pistol, Machine Gun and Sniper. They might put him on the All-Guard High-Power Team though for Quantico and Perry. The Combat Rifle guys go to England, Australia, South Africa and several other places to shoot also. That might be a good option for him if he wants to travel and shoot and get paid to do it.

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F.I.D.O.

[EchoFiveMike]

Sure it wasn't the chamber on that Kreiger, USMCSniperOne? I use several Kreigers, and their early chambers were fairly short and so needed a shorter OAL to avoid popping primers. My younger brother's rifle had a weird pressure wave thing that would pop primers at 2.400, but not 0.020 longer or 0.020 shorter. So all the 80's got loaded at 2.380 since 2.420 was too long for my chamber. Some of these guys like seating bullets into the rifling, but I can't stand the idea of getting a bullet stuck in the barrel. On a target guns it's just a PITA, on a serious gun it's suicide. I'm with you on the 7mm issue. Those JLK's and Bergers are slicker than the 6.5's, not by a whole lot, but by enough. Little more recoil, but I think it's worth it. I'm looking forward to the 7mm WSM. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

------------------
"Peace is a brief period of cheating, between wars"

[USMCSNIPERONE]

Ken, I do think it was the chamber. It had a tight one.My buddies was the same way. We both ended up going back to Douglas barrels.One thing about the Douglas is they shoot as good as they ever will, right from the start. The Kreiger seemed to shoot better, the more you shot it.Alittle to finicky for me.I found with the Berger 80's, you had to load them touching the lands for optimum accuracy. Not so with the Sierra 80's or the Hornady 75 A-max's. I use the A-max's for the 600 and Berger 73LTB's for everything else. 7mm forever! http://www.socnetcentral.com/ubboard/biggrin.gif HAHA

Semper Fi Sniperone

[Pat Murphy]

Sharky..
I stand corrected, your right, because he said he needed to work on his pistol shooting. He's had a chance to go to several shoots but its tough to get the time off sometimes with his job. His boss is really a nice guy and very understanding but there are times he just can't be gone.
Talked to Weber and told him you called him a "Fag"(HA). I can't tell you what he said though it would shut down the computer(HA). Said to tell you "HI".

[Sharky]

Tell that bastard to call me sometime. I lost his number several months ago and Praslick hasn't written back lately with the number. Can you e-mail it to me if you have it.

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F.I.D.O.

[Sharky]

Something I said? I was really enjoying this thread too, even though I didn't have very much to contribute. I know, I'll start another discussion. About mil-dots.......heheh

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F.I.D.O.

[Pat Murphy]

Sharky,
Sorry, I been tied up with court. I will send you the the number I have. He's hard to catch I usually just leave a message for him to call me. It seems to work better that way.

[Sharky]

Roger.....gracias.

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F.I.D.O.

[newpilgrim]

As far as the .338 lapua magnum goes it is a good round for large game hunting. i took mine to wyoming last week to go elk hunting. the $4.25 i spent on that round was worth it. but i don't recommend the round for someone who isn't going to go big game hunting with it. i would recommend a .308 for someone who is going to shoot regularly. also about the .338 most ammo runs you about $90 for a box of twenty.