Variation on Ghillie Suit....

[TacticalRifleBKH]

I'm getting ready to start on a ghillie for the upcoming competition season, while talking with my partner we came up with an idea for a variation to the norm in the way ghillie's are constructed, I'd like the opinion from some of people here.

Instead of using netting sewn to the bdu's we were looking at the idea of using 550 cord, run parallel down the top/back of the arms, sewn every inch or so cross wise to make the loops, and also across the back, either vertically or horizontally sewn the same way to replicate the loops, then of course using cordura/gore tex on the front chest and knees.
Input from you all would be greatly appreciated, we are just trying to explore any ideas that might lead to a better product... Thanks Bruce.....

[Gunny Hicks]

With out netting: The vegetation falls flat.
With netting, you grab a handful of vegetation, double it over, and with the loose ends pointing up you mushroom out the bent portin against the palm of your hand, flattenting it out. You then work this flattened out portion into the netting, this gives it a sort of flat base, and will help it to stand up a little, which will help disrupt your outline.
Netting provides you with the ability to have vegeation from the stalk site, intermixed with the burlap; thereby helping to break up your outline and give you better blend with the brush around you.
Burlap alone, or vegetation tied onto your back just lays flat, and will form along the shape of the body.

[Sharky]

Gunny is dead on. But, I will go on to say, TRY IT! You're only limited by your imagination. Give it a go and if it works better for you, great! If not scrap it and try something else. That's what training and competition are all about. Learning. I had the thought of doing something similar at one time but I decided against it at the time because it seemed that for the amount of work it would take to make the top (prone) more durable, the bottom of the suit (elbows, chest, knees etc...)wouldn't last long enough to justify it. But, that's just me. I was hell on my ghillies. Don't take this as discouragement. TRY IT! I would be very interested in hearing what you do different and how well it worked out for you on a stalk or two. If your idea is no good I'm sure there will be somebody behind a pair of Steiners who will let you know all about it. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/wink.gif

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F.I.D.O.

[JY]

I have a suit done in that manner. The 550 cord is "S' down the back sides of arms, back and trousers. The riggers did the sewing on para machines, also hand cordura skid plates added backed with 1/4 closed foam. BDU jacket pockets were removed and a single skid plate sewn across chest from waist to neck and a zipper added to right side. Nylon webbing added to inside of jacket for TA50 attachment. Padded elbow and leg plates attached covering 1/4" padding, those on leg fronts were sewn so that all pockets were usable. Jacket pockets were sewn to both upper arms. A rectangular section was cut out over shoulder blade area and strong "no see'um' netting sewn in for ventilation(also top of boonie replaced with net). Used a 6 color desert camo BDU for the base.

The thing to remember is to leave some slack in the 550 so you can attach the burlap and natural veggy. Mine runs horizontal as you stand with a couple verticle to allow more variety in natural veggy positioning.

Also added were loops on cuffs of jacket and trousers to keep them down when reversing, along with nylon loops at bottom of jacket to run 550 through to hold it down. I use suspenders on trousers, this combined with the zip in the jacket make it very fast to get out of when need be.

If done right I have found the 550 cord to work as well as using netting , plus is very durable in use. As far as gortex, since you're only putting where you meet the ground, I would just use an old poncho or similar item in behind the skids, if using cordura really not needed.

Take care...Jim

[Jesse]

This is just a guess, but I think Cordura would be noisy while dragging across the ground. If it is the high strength stuff, like 1000 denier, anyway.

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"Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die today"
-- James Dean

-Jesse Foust

[Sharky]

Originally posted by Jesse:
This is just a guess, but I think Cordura would be noisy while dragging across the ground. If it is the high strength stuff, like 1000 denier, anyway.



Jesse,

If they can hear that cordura coming you have well and truly Fuc*ed up already and are about to die so it won't really matter.



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F.I.D.O.

[Jesse]

Oh. The only experience I have with Cordura is on my boots and packs. I guess if you were going slow it would be quieter.

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"Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die today"
-- James Dean

-Jesse Foust

[tactical]

I have tried the Cordura on ghillies and it is durable but makes so much noise the dead will be looking for you. I think the heavy canvas is a better way to go.

[JY]

Hi Jesse;

The noise made by cordura in the feild is no more than dead grass, you are not rubbing it togather http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/eek.gif Also most ready made drag bags are again made of the material, both Eagles are(flat and the big one)as are the BlackHawks(made by the same contractor by the way). If the goblin hears it he'll just drop a brick on ya, you're that close, and you've lost your ballistic advantage. Most modern feild gear is made of the stuff including your boots. I have used my suit operationally on several stalks with zero noise problems, over heat maybe, noise no.

To put it into prospective, can you hear grass bending at 400 meters? That's the minimum range I want to engage you at, or even 100 meters?...50?. And if you are close enough for an enemy to hear the material scrape, your movement to make that noise will give you away no matter what you have on...along with the pounding heart from being almost stepped on. We're talking military here not the 70 yard PD ranges, it's two different worlds.

Take care...Jim

[Sharky]

Hi jim,

Thanks for making my point a little more clear than I did. Good post.

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F.I.D.O.

[bubba]

Some thing I have used with great success is rubberized canvas like used in camo net bags. It has the same properties as both cordura type nylon and heavy canvas, but you don't absorb all the moisture from the ground. I have used it on two of my suits and the rest of my scout platoon, to include my former sniper school instructor PSG, love the stuff. Just food for thought.

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RLTW

[Sharkbait]

I constructed my ghille with the 550 cord as well. So far its been holding up quite well (approx 1 yr old). I havent had any problems with my veg "standing up" or what not but I think its all on how you jam it in the suit along with the burlap. Its all in how you do it I guess.
It seems that we all still build it the same way with minor mods here and there. On mine, I removed the pockets and sewed them to the inside of my jacket horizontally so I could reach things while laying prone without a whole lot of movement. Its limited as to what you can carry there of course because you are laying on it. I also cut out the underarms and placed netting in it for better ventilation for "cooling" purposes. It helps a bit but I have seen some ghillies that basically dont have a back because they have removed it and placed ventilation netting there as well. Ive never worn one so I dont know if I like that or not, but so far I dont think I like it. Im all for ventilating those burlap ovens but I dont know. Since you will be using yours for competition purposes that back netting might be a way to go, food for thought.
For the skids I used the canvas from a couple of my old kit bags. I like the idea of using that rubberized material from the netting bags, I never thought of that..thats a good idea to combat the moisture issue. Mental note.. http://www.specialoperations.com/ubboard/smile.gif Although I bet it holds in a lot of heat as well?

Good luck this season......

[Sharky]

Love the screenname. Don't know if I should be honored or hungry.

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F.I.D.O.

[Sharkbait]

haha...well seeing as how the name is because of an underwater incident...I guess you should be hungry....they were.

what part of EP you in? I was there for a while, just curious. Got some FED friends in that area....

[Sharky]

East side. Live in El Paso but work the Ysleta, Socorro, San Elizario and Fabens areas. You?

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F.I.D.O.

[Sharkbait]

grew up on East side where what is now the highly developed area surrounding Montwood HS and the former "Sportsplex". When I lived there I was pretty much the only house out there, surrounded by miles of desert east of George Dieter....I used to be able to ride straight from my house across the desert to the Jobe Concrete factory and then on to Red Sands. Thats where my Dad started me on my marksmanship training...hehehee. Plenty of room to practice with no interruptions. That aint the case now unfortunately...to built up to go shoot anymore...

[Sethro]

Thought I would throw in some food for thought. The new duffle bags are made out Cordura, and the inside of the bag is waterproof. When you go to reinforce the front torso area and the knees and elbows, try using the inside of the duffle bag, in other words reverse it. This makes for a great skid area and will dampen the noise, if there is that issue. In the Law Enforcement concerns, most subjects are inside or barricaded and have too much other commotion going on around them to hear the cordura rubbing up against the grass anyway. Just a thoguht. Sethro Out.

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Those the gods intend to destroy, they first make angry.