Is It Possibel To Stay In A Recon Unit?

[GummyBear0311]

The thread title should have been "Is It Possible To Stay In Recon Units?

During my 2nd deployment in 1998 with a MEU, got to chat with a Force Recon Marine. He told me that after bootcamp/SOI, that in his 7 years, he has been with Force Recon. Also, read some sgt. majors with recon background, started with a recon unit then transferring to another one but does not speciy their timeline.

When i was planning to reenlist(i am just 0311), the career planner ask me where i want to go. So i assume that you have a say on what you can do on your 2nd enlismtent but of course that enlistmen order has to be approve.

Now to my question. Before recon became a primary MOS and the deactivation of the Force Recon companies, is it possible for a Recon Marine to stay with recon units in his first 8 or 12 years of service? Or he gets order where the USMC wants him to go?

Just asking, don't mean to offend no one. Thank you.

[SOTB]

Before recon became a primary MOS and the deactivation of the Force Recon companies, is it possible for a Recon Marine to stay with recon units in his first 8 or 12 years of service?During the 80's it was very much possible to remain in a reconnaissance unit for 7-12 years. One only needed get orders between the different units, with maybe a move to the Recon & Raids group at Quantico or one of the two ARS/ARC schoolhouses. I knew several guys who went back and forth from a CONUS reconnaissance unit to an OKI recon unit for their entire time in (when I knew them). Myself, I did 7 years in only recon units, and only left to be an instructor at Ft Bragg -- this to avoid pulling a B-Billet assignment (which might not have been coming, but I was paranoid of getting)....

[GummyBear0311]

During the 80's it was very much possible to remain in a reconnaissance unit for 7-12 years. One only needed get orders between the different units, with maybe a move to the Recon & Raids group at Quantico or one of the two ARS/ARC schoolhouses. I knew several guys who went back and forth from a CONUS reconnaissance unit to an OKI recon unit for their entire time in (when I knew them). Myself, I did 7 years in only recon units, and only left to be an instructor at Ft Bragg -- this to avoid pulling a B-Billet assignment (which might not have been coming, but I was paranoid of getting)....

SOTB, thanks for the reply. From other forums, i guess the majority does not like doing B-Billets.

[bsm]

I'm a Sailor, but I listen in every now and then.

The 2nd to last time Major General Lefebvre came by, he said the plan was to allow Marines to stay in MARSOC for as long as possible. As to what rank/number of years that means, your guess is as good as mine. The General's intent as I understood was to build a strong organization, which requires experienced SNCO's, and he's got a SgtMaj, so that that's an indicator.
He's also Very open to questions and suggestions, so look him up and global, or the MARSOC Sgt Maj, and I guarantee you'll find an answer.

Hope that helps

V/R
bsm

[bsm]

Just realized I missed the point of your question. Reconnaissance units are MARDIV assets. If you are looking for a career move, look at your options. These days you have a number of choices depending on your MOS.

[SOTB]

Just realized I missed the point of your question....I think he's been out for 11 years, maybe this is just simple curiosity?

[Silverbullet]

Reconnaissance is a primary MOS. You can stay in the field for your entire career.

[stanpunjabTrini]

Just realized I missed the point of your question. Reconnaissance units are MARDIV assets. If you are looking for a career move, look at your options. These days you have a number of choices depending on your MOS.

mr silverbullet,
what is the distinction between 0321 and 0324, if any?

I was a designated 0324E without being a combat diver but i did take the following courses back then (1stMarDiv, 1stMAW and 4thMArDiv-Hq)
1. MCI 'Ops Against Guerilla Units
2. Covert Ops (indiv. course at university)
3. CI course at a former defense contractor Taken between 77-1980

[Silverbullet]

mr silverbullet,
what is the distinction between 0321 and 0324, if any?

I was a designated 0324E without being a combat diver but i did take the following courses back then (1stMarDiv, 1stMAW and 4thMArDiv-Hq)
1. MCI 'Ops Against Guerilla Units
2. Covert Ops (indiv. course at university)
3. CI course at a former defense contractor Taken between 77-1980

0324 was a recent MOS addition, at least since my retirement. Prior to that the 8600 series digits were used.

The other things listed are meaningless to achieving or holding the recon MOS.

[GummyBear0311]

I think he's been out for 11 years, maybe this is just simple curiosity?

Yes it is sir.

[Karaya1]

I have a few friends who have managed to spend their first 7-8 years completely in the reconnaissance community. Generally they took an instructor billet at BRC or Dive school after 4-6 years. I have 5 or so real good friends i went to BRC with or deployed with that are instructors at BRC currently. SgtMaj Lehew was big on getting guys on a solid career progression which generally meant leaving the community for a while and doing a B-Billet. There is generally not a lot of desire to go on Recruiting duty or be a Drill Instructor from Recon guys, at least not that i witnessed. MSG is the more popular choice.
My first TL and ATL hit the timeline perfectly and were "grandfathered" into Marsoc right when it stood up, they've been able to operate straight through their 7 year marks.
From my experience, after 6-7 years of operating, a two year B-Billet and then returning to a Recon battalion generally put one in position to be a PLT Sgt. Lots of guys don't want a platoon and just want to be a TL/ATL. These guys often try to get over to Marsoc or into the Force company since it stood back up to operate in a team.

[SOTB]

SgtMaj Lehew was big on getting guys on a solid career progression which generally meant leaving the community for a while and doing a B-Billet....He's not the only one who has pushed that crap. I'm saddened to see there are still people who feel they need to go down that road to make rank....

[Silverbullet]

There's no need to ever go on a B billet unless you want to. The only guys I hear of that end up on B billets are those that volunteer. The Recon MOS was excepted from being part of the "draft" back in the 90's. There are no 2 year B billet tours, either.

Go to MarSoc or a SMU and one of the many instructor billets available.

Anyone who pushes the B billet makes you well rounded is a jackass in my opinion. Do numerous deployments and you will end up working with just about all the assets in the Marine Corps. No B billet can ever match that.

The well rounded thing is just a justification for the B billet mafia, that makes up the SgtMaj ranks, to act like going on a B billet is "challenging" or whatever is the term of the day.

[Karaya1]

There's no need to ever go on a B billet unless you want to. The only guys I hear of that end up on B billets are those that volunteer. The Recon MOS was excepted from being part of the "draft" back in the 90's. There are no 2 year B billet tours, either.

Go to MarSoc or a SMU and one of the many instructor billets available.

Anyone who pushes the B billet makes you well rounded is a jackass in my opinion. Do numerous deployments and you will end up working with just about all the assets in the Marine Corps. No B billet can ever match that.

The well rounded thing is just a justification for the B billet mafia that makes up the SgtMaj ranks to act like going on a B billet is "challenging" or whatever is the term of the day.

I defer to Silver on the B-Billet topic, I can't claim to have definitive knowledge of the length of time they take, i thought it was about two-three years on the job the school for whatever billet was completed.

I very much remember a talk from SgtMaj Lehew when he was at 1st telling us the days of a Recon Marine spending his whole time in at 1st was over and we should expect to experience the rest of the Corps and not just hide in our bubble. He was primarily referring to B-Billets. It was a pretty empty threat saying we wouldn't get promoted past SSGT if we stayed in Recon units the whole time. Even regular infantry doesn't HAVE to do a b-billet, but if your trying to be ultra competitive vs your peers in terms of promotion, it helps.

I completely agree with your opinion regarding pushing B-billets.

Sgt Maj Miller (who was actually an 0321) Never pushed it before he left in late 07/early 08. It was Lehew (who had been a DI, and was from a AAV unit, certaintly not a 21) who pushed it so hard.

The only time i saw people "pushed" to a b billet/ was generally guys with a family who'd been established in the camp pen area for 8+ years being threatened with orders to Oki since they'd "been at 1st too long" and did not want to go.
They stuck around by becoming instructors at BRC/SOI or DI's with plans of returning when they were done.

[Panda Power]

I don't think Miller was ever an 0321. I think he got his silver bubble while on the drill field, and his jump wings when he got to first. However, he was a good SMAJ and only ever got mad when the IG inspection team was walking towards the barracks whilst Recon Rhonda was sneaking out at the same time.

[skeeter8654]

I defer to Silver on the B-Billet topic, I can't claim to have definitive knowledge of the length of time they take, i thought it was about two-three years on the job the school for whatever billet was completed.

I very much remember a talk from SgtMaj Lehew when he was at 1st telling us the days of a Recon Marine spending his whole time in at 1st was over and we should expect to experience the rest of the Corps and not just hide in our bubble. He was primarily referring to B-Billets. It was a pretty empty threat saying we wouldn't get promoted past SSGT if we stayed in Recon units the whole time. Even regular infantry doesn't HAVE to do a b-billet, but if your trying to be ultra competitive vs your peers in terms of promotion, it helps.

I completely agree with your opinion regarding pushing B-billets.

Sgt Maj Miller (who was actually an 0321) Never pushed it before he left in late 07/early 08. It was Lehew (who had been a DI, and was from a AAV unit, certaintly not a 21) who pushed it so hard.

The only time i saw people "pushed" to a b billet/ was generally guys with a family who'd been established in the camp pen area for 8+ years being threatened with orders to Oki since they'd "been at 1st too long" and did not want to go.
They stuck around by becoming instructors at BRC/SOI or DI's with plans of returning when they were done.

Sergeant Major Lehew is not nor ever was a Recon Marine. His word on the career progression of a Recon Marine is worth as much as the Motor T Chiefs, unless you desire to pursue the 1stSgt/SgtMaj career path. Bottom line, 1st Sergeants and Sergeants Major are summer help, just passing through with no vested interest in the community, just like Officers. If you want career advice as an 0321, your Master Sergeant or Master Guns is a much better source of information.

As far as not getting promoted past Staff Sergeant without a SDA, that's laughable. Not that most guys are overly concerned with promotions, but I pinned on Gunny before I hit my ten year mark. I was promoted with my peers. I have no Special Duty Assignments. Neither do almost any of the other guys I know. There are a few dudes out there that have them, now that BRC and Scout-Sniper School are consider Special Duty assignments once they go through the courses required by SOI to be a Marine Combat Instructor. That will help them with promotion, but it's far from necessary to pin on rank. Bottom line, you compete with your peers, i.e. the 0321 career field. If most of your peers have special duty assignments then it matters. This will never be the case in the 0321 field, so it really doesn't matter. If you want to be a 8999 and do the First Sergeant thing, it's probably necessary. Otherwise, do what you want to do. The only way you can fuck yourself is to spend too much time away from a deploying unit.

This isn't a 8999 hate fest, they're just usually full of bum scoop about the Reconnaissance field. Having said that, some of them are phenomenal Sergeant's Major, like the previously mentioned Sergeant Major Miller. He may not have been a Recon Marine, but he adopted us like we were his own and was fiercely protective of the Marines in his battalion when they would get fucked with by other units, and took care of us phenomenaly. Sadly, I can't say that guys like him are the rule.

Recon Rhonda... Wasn't she the weirdo barracks rat with the mini van and a million kids? lol

[TJT0321]

GummyBear,

The simplest answer to your question is that once you attain the 0321 MOS it will remain your primary no matter what. Once you pick up SNCO, you won't transition into being an 0369 and therefore won't be required to fulfill a classic b-billet requirement i.e. MSG, DI, or Recruiter, and they won't be sending you anywhere without asking first. On the other hand, most SNCO's are now required to attend the Staff Academy in order to pick up GySgt (or so they tell us) and most are encouraged to take an instructor billet somewhere i.e. BRC, MCD, or wherever in order to further their career and put them on the path to 1stSgt and SgtMaj. Despite that, most will just say to hell with it and go the MSgt/MGySgt route instead.

The best way to go if you're really wanting to stay in recon, is to get in on the ground floor at a Recon Bn. as a team member and have them send you to BRC. Then after your 3 year tour is about wrapped up head over to one of the force companies that are being stood up as a team leader. After 3 years with them, I would run through A&S for MSOB and hop onto one of their 5 year tours. That's 11 years worth of pain, misery, and suffering that should get you ready for something a little more laid back.

[GummyBear0311]

I know this thread is old but i did some research(google) on current sgt. majors with recon background. Some went straight to recon then after went to become DI or recruiters.

There was one that spent the majority of his career in infantry/recon and that is Sgt. Major Lucas. When i saw a pic of him, i thought he look familiar. Don't know the Sgt. Major personally and never serve under him but i have seen him before. Look at my wespac 98 book and he was the platoon sgt. for the division recon platoon for the MEU.

[Markslams]

Sgt. Maj. Miller was the shit and everything that Skeeter says of him is correct.

He wasn't a Reconner and I believe he came from 3/1 before he was with 1st. I went to jump school with him, my platoon commander, and my company XO. Being the only nonrate I sent many ROTC college kids to him to look for the PRC-E9 to which he wonderfully bellowed, "I"M THE PRICK E9 MOTHERFUCKER!" He would then look over at me and laugh his ass off as the kid scurried away.

The very first experience I had with Sgt. Maj. Miller was during a workup. We were out in Pendleton doing VCPs. So naturally, I'm upholding the 1st rule of being a Recon Marine by having my sleeves rolled up halfway, I have my haji wrap around my neck, boots unbloused, and up stroll the Smaj and his entourage from a vehicle. SgtMaj. Miller is walking straight towards me and I automatically prepare myself for a thorough ass-chewing. The only thing he says to me is "Damn, you look cool as fuck" and keeps walking by.

My favorite order of his was that instead of making that ridiculous stop sign disappear outside of Margarita, to put 1st Recon stickers on the bumpers of the MP crown vics. He stated he'd personally provide the stickers.

Good info on the b-billet ideology in this thread btw.

[reconhawaii]

I have to reply only to vent my ordeal. I do believe that after I had been forced to re-enlist for a supply admin mos after being an 0331 and serving 7 years in various recon units, they finally made 0321 a primary mos (around 94?) I was told I had to re-enlist for supply which was the only available mos or get out. When I left Supply school for Pendleton, 1st Force was already working on trying to get my orders changed to get back into a Recon Unit, But a Major and the Colonel kept preventing my change of orders to make me a "Well Rounded Marine". Bull Crap, I just wanted to jump, dive and Deploy to some hotspot around the world with guys I trusted more then my own blood family... Anyway, I was so disenchanted with the Corps because they would not let me deploy overseas, go back to Recon nor even take another Sgt's tour in Okinawa for them. When i was asked by the Colonel why I had an attitude towards supply work, I told them i joined the Corps to kill people. I couldn't even tell people what i did in the Corps. The next day i had to go to the Naval hospital for a psych eval. The doctor said I was just a Marine and that was my job... Sent me back to my unit and I then later got out...

I could not believe that guys i trained or was in my teams were getting re-enlistment bonuses for recon. I know at least 7 other schooled out Recon Sgts that had to go to the grunts rather then be kept in Recon units. It was a very sad time. I'm glad it was changed...